“They need now to come forward and explain what warped logic they had for these actions.”

In the Belfast Telegraph, one of those targetted in last night’s pipe-bomb attacks, the chair of the Felon’s Club in west Belfast Liam Shannon speculates that “I think it’s likely to be loyalists”.  Is it?

The BBC separately reports that

Mr Shannon said he did not want to speculate on who was responsible but appealed for no retaliation.

And today there are further security alerts in west and north Belfast.

Adds  UTV report on security alerts.

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  • Neil

    “I think it’s likely to be loyalists”. Is it?

    Well it’s all speculation at the end of the day, but has this man’s house been attacked before and by whom? The answer’s yes, and by Loyalists. Looking at the type of device, has either side of the divide been using pipe bombs more than the other? Well, again, yes – Loyalists.

    Finally there is the fact that the local hoods had distributed leaflets with the names and addresses of Republicans (and pensioners among others on the list in error) in Loyalist areas.

    As I say it’s all speculation, but working from the basis of ‘likelihood’ then I’d say it is indeed ‘likely’ to have been Loyalists.

  • Alan Maskey

    RIRA etc would be truly nuts if they atta
    cked PIRA who, one insider infamously assured us, haven’t gone away, you know.

  • joeCanuck

    These types of incidents extending to even murder need to be stopped, and stopped soon.
    To say “explain what warped logic they had for these actions” is a bit rich coming from SF.

  • Alan Maskey

    How would you stop these attacks? There is a lot of hatred out there, much of it directed against PSF.
    Binge drinking is probably a bigger problem, all told.

  • Alan Maskey

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11676972

    It looks like the body of another of the Disappeared, Peter Wilson, has been found today, All Soul’s Day.

    Who should we have more sympathy for, Peter Wilson or the tubbies who prop up the Felons’ bar, boasting of how they abducted and offed enemies of the Great One?

    Let us hope that the remains of the rest of the Disappeared, those kidnapped, tortured and killed by PIRA, will be found and that the perpetrators will live long and happy lives, tanking up in the Felons and urinating outside with nothing more than the aim of their mates to worry therm.

  • Neil

    Perfectly good set of jacks in the Felons, usually very clean too.

  • joeCanuck

    Increased intelligence gathering and an end to the softly softly approach to thugs to encourage them along the path to non-violence. That approach has been shown clearly not to work for some groupings.

  • Sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself rather than anyone else.

  • it’s taken a long time but the Canuck finally posts something I agree with

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    And very nice glass decorations.
    Apparently Gerry Adams claims to have made the “rocking chair” but according to people who know Gerry and the rocking chair…….the only time Gerry ever touched it was carrying it into the Felons.

  • Neil

    Care to provide some kind of analysis that might lead someone to believe that Republicans are now attacking barmen?

    The biggest factor in deciding if something is likely to happen or to have happened is whether or not it’s happened before. In this instance it has, Loyalists made the short trip across the roundabout and attacked this very house.

    Of course I may have missed something and for some reason it’s ‘likely’ to have been Republicans, and perhaps you could enlighten me?

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    Yes it is quite likely to be loyalists……which is of course not as big a story than if it was republicans……but sometimes we just gotta make the best of the story we get.
    Bricks out of straw..as they say.

  • pippakin

    The security services need to ‘up their game’ this sort of thing must not be allowed to gain momentum.

  • Ranger1640

    Using your logic Neil Gerry Adams was definitely in the IRA. Unless you know better???

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    True

  • Alan Maskey

    http://www.youtube.com/user/WestBelfastSinnFein#p/u/4/qDIT3-NVdkc

    This PSF video has Gerry Adams saying PSF will cooperate with the PSNI to bring all law breakers, members and ex members of PIRA included, before the courts.
    Eventually, there will be an OIRA/SFWP type split with the “criminal element”being tossed overboard.

    Adams should really work on his Irish, he makes a lot of grammatical errors. As the bodies of the Disappeared fall out of his closets, “They need now to come forward and explain what warped logic they had for these actions.”

  • joeCanuck

    Clever last sentence, Alan.

  • Neil

    You’ll have to explain how you come to that conclusion Ranger. My logic is simply that if this man’s house was bombed by Loyalists using a similar device in the past then it’s likely the same people are responsible this time. Kind of the reverse of Einsteins quote on the definition of insanity: trying the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome.

    The idea, in terms of mathematical likelihood, that if the same home is attacked twice using blast bombs that it’s somehow more likely that two distinct groups attacked the same home using a similair device than the same person who did it first time round decided to do it again doesn’t ring true to me.

    Now possibility is a different matter. It’s possible it was Republicans. It’s less likely, but still possible that it was say the Queen of England. But in terms of likely the reasons for believeing it to be more likely to have been Loyalists are many, they have form after all.

    Form, being a reason for suspicion, generally speaking. The police would examine ‘form’ in order to determine likelihood of guilt. But how this logic applies to Gerry adams membership of the IRA.

    I would also point out that your use of ‘definitely’ in terms of this discussion is off the radar. All of my points are based around the use of the word ‘likely’, pointedly so. So if anything using my logic would suggest Gerry is likely to have been in the IRA, but I still fail to see how my logic applies.

  • jim

    this shannon has some cheek hes a well known supporter of sf/ira and hes on crying about his house getting bombed.the young handicap man whos body has just been found on waterfoot beach lived in the next street to him.murdered n buired by shannons comrades what goes round comes round

  • Stephen Ferguson

    Looks like the dissos feel confident enough to start publicly exerting their authority in west Belfast….

    Big Bobby can’t be happy.

  • tacapall

    Just like the nail bomb loyalists lobbed into a house on Broadway on 12th July, which exploded, an attempt to murder the entire family wasn’t worthy of a mention on the news even when two loyalist were charged with the attack. It is highly unlikely so called dissident republicans carried out this attack as those who carried it out targeted an innocent family. This was carried out by loyalists.

  • Ranger1640

    Those Loyalist pipe bombers are sure a busy lot at the moment, or are they????

    http://www.belfastmedia.com/news_article.php?ID=4465

  • Stephen Ferguson

    Have you got a link for this story?

  • RNU CRITICISES ST. JAMES’ ATTACKS

    The REPUBLICAN NETWORK for UNITY (R.N.U.) Spokesperson, MARTIN ÓG MEEHAN has strongly criticised last night’s bomb attacks in the St. James’ area of West Belfast.

    R.N.U. believes these sinister attacks were the work of Loyalist Paramilitaries in an attempt to intimidate the proud community of St. James’. We offer our sympathy and solidarity to the Cook and Shannon families.

    R.N.U. also ask Nationalist and Republican families and communities across Belfast to remain vigilant.

  • Neil

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/attacks/pipebomb.htm

    The vast majority of pipe bomb incidents have been the work of Loyalists. Don;t take my word for it, read through the independent CAIN site, link above, and you’ll see that of the total very few are Republican.

    Again it comes down to the word likelihood. I didn’t say Republicans never used pipe bombs, I even suggested the possibility of it being a Republican attack. However aside from form being a factor, in terms of likelihood the fact that maybe 90% of pipe bomb attacks have been by Loyalists would also impact on the likelihood of Loyalists being responsible.

    It’s all about the difference between likehood and possibility. I’m talking about the former, you the latter. I confirm my belief that anything’s possible. However given Loyalists form for using pipe bombs (which, predominantly Loyalists have been using) and the fact that they previously attacked the same home in the same method, does lend credibility to the likelihood of Loyalists being responsible again. Not to be confused with the possibility that it was Republicans, Al Qaeda, or wee green men.

  • Stephen Ferguson

    Any evidence to support this view?

    Or are you engaged in black ops designed to recruit vulnerable/gullible young Nationalists into the ranks of the dissident Nationalist groups?

  • Neil

    Any evidence to support this view?

    Any evidence to support the completely off-the-wall view that dissident Republicans in their attempts to win support are likely to endanger local children from an area where they most likely hope to recruit?

    Or is it more likely that Republicans were responsible in spite of the following:

    Loyalists already attacked this home
    When they attacked this home they used a similair device
    The pipe bomb/petrol combo is a speciality of the Loyalist side
    Republicans rarely if ever bomb ‘their own’ areas
    These specific Republicans are trying to generate support yet somehow seem likely to you to risk the lives of local children, alienating virtually everyone in that community in one foul swoop

    Or could it be more likely that:

    the same sectarian Loyalist that used the same device before, did it again?

    No, of course not, why would that make sense? More likely that common sense took a holiday so that the blame can be laid at a Republican’s door.

    Remind me, what kind of device did the ‘real UFF’ use in Antrim a few weeks back? Pipe bomb?

    And what was the motive for leaving these device in two schools? Full of fenians was it?

    Yeah, bound to have been the dissidents trying to kill of their recruiting pool, alienate their own community and making the leap from punishment shootings to random bomb attacks on the community they wish to lead, rather than a sectarian Loyalist doing what sectarian Loyalists have been doing for centuries.

  • kayok

    Loyalists have been using pipe bombs to attack catholic homes for over ten years. What more evidence do you need?

  • Hard to beat Neil’s response Stephen…..

    The only black Ops are the ones’ in collusion with Loyalists and the British Crown Forces.

    Regardless, the UVF had the guns out in Rathcoole last week, a pipe-bomb discovered in Tiger’s Bay yesterday and of course the recurring hatred of Loyalists against Nationalist Interface areas….

  • BTW, RNU doesn’t need to issue statements to ensure recruitment…..

    Our above statement was to rightly warn vunerable families and communities about the recent upsurge in Loyalist violence.

    Speaking of RNU we’re not a Nationalist group but a legitimate Socialist-Republican lobby/pressure group chara.

  • Blair

    Neil,

    Didn’t Martin O’Millionaire say that he thought it was dissidents?

  • tacapall

    No the article in the ATN claims it was loyalists spurred on by the information they got from the imaginary gang the IBA – what a load of bull…. Sinn Fein are fixated on the local youths from St James who while no angels are not into the cloak and dagger activities of which they are accused.

  • Blair

    tapacall,

    I’m fairly sure I heard O’Millionaire on Radio Ulster’s talkback blaming it on dissidents.

  • An Phoblacht Abu

    he may have said it was dissidents, but did he say it was dissident republicans?

  • lamhdearg

    what loyalist group do the “it was loyalists” posters think planted these bombs.

  • lamhdearg

    1. Devotion to the interests or culture of one’s nation.
    2. Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.

    ——————————————————————————–
    none of this fit the RNU THEN A.R. as an online dictionary says this is what a nationlist is.

  • lamhdearg

    listen again ABU “none of us would dare think it was loyalists” talk back bbc iplayer 28 min 50 sec.

  • Stephen Ferguson

    Who did the UVF shoot in Rathcoole?

    Any idea who planted the pipe bomb in Tigers Bay? Is it possible it’s been lying there for a few years unnoticed?

    Which Nationalist interface areas are being attacked by Loyalists?

    Evidence – rather than gossip/rumours is usually helpful.

  • Stephen Ferguson

    “Any evidence to support the completely off-the-wall view that dissident Republicans in their attempts to win support are likely to endanger local children from an area where they most likely hope to recruit?”

    “These specific Republicans are trying to generate support yet somehow seem likely to you to risk the lives of local children, alienating virtually everyone in that community in one foul swoop”

    You missed the dissident bin bomb in Lurgan a few months back then? How many catholic children were injured by that one again???

  • Stephen Ferguson

    “BTW, RNU doesn’t need to issue statements to ensure recruitment…..”

    Yes, your numbers are so large you need unemployed ex-prisoners from another part of Belfast and bussed in heavies from Londonderry just to be able to put a dozen people on the Crumlin Road.

    Things are certainly looking up for RNU… 😀

  • Stephen Ferguson

    Surely must be an MI5/RUC/SAS/UDR/UVF/UDA/UFF/LVF/RHC/YMCA/MUFC joint operation.

    It has all the hallmarks…..

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    “In the Belfast Telegraph, one of those targetted in last night’s pipe-bomb attacks, the chair of the Felon’s Club in west Belfast Liam Shannon speculates that “I think it’s likely to be loyalists”. Is it?”

    Any updates on this at all?

  • Nunoftheabove

    ArdEoin Republican

    So you’re not a nationalist group ? Why then does the group define what it calls Irish freedom solely in relation to the need for a national solution ? And surely, as a socialist, you have no requirement to ‘also’ be a republican or to describe yourself as both. As a socialist, you’d be a republican by definition.

  • Neil

    3 arrested in that dissident Republican stronghold of, erm, South Belfast, ya know, just across the roundabout from the attack, you know the spot what’s it called again, um, the Village?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11721760
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/loyalists-blamed-for-bomb-blast-attack-on-west-belfast-house-14993086.html
    http://www.u.tv/News/Three-arrested-over-city-pipe-bombs/09dc8b85-8329-44b4-a804-a9d6b6d838c4

    Maybe some of the ‘it was probably Republicans attacking their own area in an indiscriminate fashion risking the lives of local kids and alienating their target support community’ bullshitters above wouyld care to elaborate on their logic?

    It’s funny listening to the excuses here, trying to put the blame on Republicans when Loyalists like using these types of devices, and have used a similair device to attack the exact same family in the exact same house before. Yeah, must be Republicans, trying to, um, stop people volunteering yeah that’s it. Cause there are too many people signing up, so risking the lives of dozens of local children seemed to be the best way to deal with that.

    I look forward to hearing you eat your words when the full details are released of the 3 people arrested in Republican South Belfast. LOL.

    what loyalist group do the “it was loyalists” posters think planted these bombs.

    I heard the ‘Real UFF’ claimed it.

    Surely must be an MI5/RUC/SAS/UDR/UVF/UDA/UFF/LVF/RHC/YMCA/MUFC joint operation.

    Well done Stephen, get your knife and fork ready, looks like there will be words to be eaten in due course.

  • Neil

    Comment awaiting moderation so without so many links (there are 3 in my original post, google it and you’ll get them), here it is again:

    3 arrested in that dissident Republican stronghold of, erm, South Belfast, ya know, just across the roundabout from the attack, you know the spot what’s it called again, um, the Village?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11721760

    Maybe some of the ‘it was probably Republicans attacking their own area in an indiscriminate fashion risking the lives of local kids and alienating their target support community’ bullshitters above wouyld care to elaborate on their logic?

    It’s funny listening to the excuses here, trying to put the blame on Republicans when Loyalists like using these types of devices, and have used a similair device to attack the exact same family in the exact same house before. Yeah, must be Republicans, trying to, um, stop people volunteering yeah that’s it. Cause there are too many people signing up, so risking the lives of dozens of local children seemed to be the best way to deal with that.

    I look forward to hearing you eat your words when the full details are released of the 3 people arrested in Republican South Belfast. LOL.

    what loyalist group do the “it was loyalists” posters think planted these bombs.

    I heard the ‘Real UFF’ claimed it.

    Surely must be an MI5/RUC/SAS/UDR/UVF/UDA/UFF/LVF/RHC/YMCA/MUFC joint operation.

    Well done Stephen, get your knife and fork ready, looks like there will be words to be eaten in due course.

  • Neil

    http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?60851-Real-UFF-claim-bomb-attack

    Sorry mods I have no link but hopefully someone could scan the papers.

    It has been claimed on a number of Sunday papers that Real UFF have claimed the 2 bomb attacks in St James’ last week.

  • Neil

    http://www.belfastmedia.com/news_article.php?ID=4481

    One of the homes targeted in St James’ this week was on a list circulated in the loyalist Village area by local thugs the IBA.

    The address of Liam Shannon, a prominent republican, was one of a number of addresses identified in the IBA leaflet distributed in the UVF-dominated Village in August.

  • spige

    8 dissies arrested and ammo found today. Good work policepersons. Soon the UVF head honchos will get their collars felt due to Operation Stafford. Luvly jubbly, but what will the Sunday World write about when all the blacknecks are inside?

  • tacapall

    Didn’t see big headlines for the three loyalists from south Belfast who were arrested in connection with the pipe bomb attacks in St James last week, these arrests plus the two loyalists also from south belfast who were charged with causing an explosion and attempted murder in connection with a nail bomb attack on a nationalist home on Broadway on 11th July confirms what we have known all along that loyalists have not abondoned their ” No claim No blame mantra, maybe Jackie McDonald should be challenged on what he knows about these attacks.