Body found in hunt for Peter Wilson

Another body has been found in the saga of the hunt for the disappeared. This time it may be Peter Wilson whom the IRA murdered in 1973 and appear to have buried on the beach at Waterfoot in the Glens of Antrim.

The horrible mixture of hope, regret and bereavement will no doubt be repeated for Mr. Wilson’s family. It seems strange that the information about the whereabouts of these murdered people comes out in drips and drabs: whether this is due to the fallibility of memory; the reluctance of some IRA members or more sinister motives is unclear. However, slowly at least some of those whom the IRA kidnapped, murdered and secretly buried for the greater good of the only legitimate government of Ireland are being given a decent burial. It seems that at least some of the murderers are willing to cooperate and slowly the list of those unaccounted for is diminishing.

It is worth mentioning that one of the disappeared is never included in the list: Lisa Dorrian; murdered by loyalist paramilitaries (it is unclear which one or indeed whether it was members of more than one) is hardly ever mentioned. The wait for her family has absolutely no end in sight.

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  • Alias

    Slappy said in regard to the disappearing of Ms McConville that it is okay for the PIRA/PSF to carry out the atrocity and to then lie about carrying it out because telling the truth about it would be counterproductive to the murder gang.

    So he admits that the murder gang will tell lies to suit its purposes and will also carry out human rights atrocities to suit its purposes, but by the time we get to La Man he seems to have blocked that reality out of his mind again and can no longer convince of his favourite murder gang being capable of carrying out human rights atrocities or of lying about them.

    PIRA/PSF used plausible deniability to deny that their intent to murder civilians time and time again, claiming that some unfortunate circumstance had prevented a warning from being issued. In any organisation that makes a mistake, lessons are learned and procedures are immediately put in place to prevent it from happening again. That never occurred in the murder gang because no ‘mistake’ regarding warning occurred.

    The purpose of mixing the sugar into the petrol was contact with human skin. If it was not intended to explode when it did and to make contact with human skin then they would not have mixed the sugar into it or placed it in a position where it was likely to make contact with human (Protestant) skin.

  • JJ Malloy

    “The purpose of mixing the sugar into the petrol was contact with human skin. If it was not intended to explode when it did and to make contact with human skin then they would not have mixed the sugar into it or placed it in a position where it was likely to make contact with human (Protestant) skin.”

    No, the purpose was to ensure maximum commercial damage. That is why it was used in over 100 previous commercial bombings (with no fatalities) before this one.
    Also, why call in a warning if their aim was to maim/kill?

    You’re either deliberately lying or just wrong on this one.

  • Munsterview

    Noted Alias……

    however as stated, I am content to leave the forensic dissection of this one to Slappy…… if there is anything left to deal with, post his demolition, which I doubt, I will be still here never fear, my people have been involved in this game since the mid fifteen hundreds and I or mine do not intend to go anywhere, anytime soon.

    Been there when a significant part of the world map was coloured red to show the British Empire, not too much red left on that map that left now aside from fag ends of Empire like the Six counties, two of which opted out when given the choice in a fair and free election.

    What is a few more days, weeks or years to those who know where they came from or where they are going ?

    Unlike yours, my culture always had a country and our people were never driven out of any country en-mass, save for our own. We also valued our own people collectivly and never regarded ‘one cow in Ireland ‘ as worth a few hundred dead Irish abroad, when we could help our own.

    Yes you have bog Provo opposition, thats what we were left with, but that bog produced a two MP’s, a British Army General and more than others of note. It also produced more than a few fenians, a great grandson of one who is a British household name and well up the Sunday Times ritch list. Kept his head and his investements too, even managed to still give away a few millions despite the recent rescession.

    Just as in the past a wood kern was a nomenclature of honor to my people, so too is Bog Standard Provo, but then again one needs roots, place and culture to appreciate that.

    I cannot someone like you to appreciate that and I can excuse your understandable igornance.

  • Alias

    It really doesn’t matter, Slappy, that you pulled one of many diagnositic critera and concluded that they’re not psychopaths because they didn’t, in your analysis, meet the one of many, since neither of us is qualified to diagnose mental illnesses (and neither has sat the Shinner psychopaths down for the purpose), but as Dylan said “You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.” Certainly any sensible person familiar with the diagnostic criteria for each disorder would conclude that there is an extremely high probability that loyalist and republican murder gang members comfortably meet them.

    Proposed DSM III-R criteria

    Sadistic personality disorder is:

    A) A pervasive pattern of cruel, demeaning, and aggressive behavior, beginning by early adulthood, as indicated by the repeated occurrence of at least four of the following:

    1.has used physical cruelty or violence for the purpose of establishing dominance in a relationship (not merely to achieve some noninterpersonal goal, such as striking someone in order to rob him/her).
    2.Humiliates or demeans people in the presence of others.
    3.has treated or disciplined someone under his/her control unusually harshly.
    4.is amused by, or takes pleasure in, the psychological or physical suffering of others (including animals).
    5.has lied for the purpose of harming or inflicting pain on others (not merely to achieve some other goal).
    6.gets other people to do what he/she wants by frightening them (through intimidation or even terror).
    7.restricts the autonomy of people with whom he or she has a close relationship, e.g., will not let spouse leave the house unaccompanied or permit teenage daughter to attend social functions.
    8.is fascinated by violence, weapons, injury, or torture.

    B) The behavior in A has not been directed toward only one person (e.g., spouse, one child) and has not been solely for the purpose of sexual arousal (as in sexual sadism).

    And the latest Antisocial/Psychopathic Type is:

    Individuals who match this personality disorder type are arrogant and self-centered, and feel privileged and entitled. They have a grandiose, exaggerated sense of self-importance and they are primarily motivated by self-serving goals. They seek power over others and will manipulate, exploit, deceive, con, or otherwise take advantage of others, in order to inflict harm or to achieve their goals. They are callous and have little empathy for others’ needs or feelings unless they coincide with their own. They show disregard for the rights, property, or safety of others and experience little or no remorse or guilt if they cause any harm or injury to others. They may act aggressively or sadistically toward others in pursuit of their personal agendas and appear to derive pleasure or satisfaction from humiliating, demeaning dominating, or hurting others. They also have the capacity for superficial charm and ingratiation when it suits their purposes. They profess and demonstrate minimal investment in conventional moral principles and they tend to disavow responsibility for their actions and to blame others for their own failures and shortcomings.

    Individuals with this personality type are temperamentally aggressive and have a high threshold for pleasurable excitement. They engage in reckless sensation-seeking behaviors, tend to act impulsively without fear or regard for consequences, and feel immune or invulnerable to adverse outcomes of their actions. Their emotional expression is mostly limited to irritability, anger, and hostility; acknowledgement and articulation of other emotions, such as love or anxiety, are rare. They have little insight into their motivations and are unable to consider alternative interpretations of their experiences.

    Individuals with this disorder often engage in unlawful and criminal behavior and may abuse alcohol and drugs. Extremely pathological types may also commit acts of physical violence in order to intimidate, dominate, and control others. They may be generally unreliable or irresponsible about work obligations or financial commitments and often have problems with authority figures.

    1. Antagonism: Callousness

    Lack of empathy or concern for others’ feelings or problems; lack of guilt or remorse about the negative or harmful effects of one’s actions on others; exploitativeness

    2. Antagonism: Aggression

    Being mean, cruel, or cold-hearted; verbally, relationally, or physically abusive; humiliating and demeaning of others; willingly and willfully engaging in acts of violence against persons and objects; active and open belligerence or vengefulness; using dominance and intimidation to control others

    3. Antagonism: Manipulativeness

    Use of cunning, craft, or subterfuge to influence or control others; casual use of others to one’s own advantage; use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve one’s own end

    4. Antagonism: Hostility

    Irritability, hot temperedness; being unfriendly, rude, surly, or nasty; responding angrily to minor slights and insults

    5. Antagonism: Deceitfulness

    Dishonesty, untruthfulness; embellishment or fabrication when relating events; misrepresentation of self; fraudulence

    6. Antagonism: Narcissism

    Vanity, boastfulness, exaggeration of one’s achievements and abilities; self-centeredness; feeling and acting entitled, believing that one deserves only the best; preoccupation with having unlimited success, power, brilliance, and/or beauty

    7. Disinhibition: Irresponsibility

    Disregard for, or failure to honor, financial and other obligations or commitments; lack of respect and follow through on agreements and promises; unreliability; failure to keep appointments or to complete tasks or assignments; carelessness with own and/or others’ possessions

    8. Disinhibition: Recklessness

    Craving and pursuit of stimulation and variety without regard for consequences; boredom proneness and unplanned initiation of activities to counter boredom; unnecessary risk taking; lack of concern for ones limitations; denial of the reality of personal danger; high tolerance for uncertainty and unfamiliarity

    9. Disinhibition: Impulsivity

    Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli; acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes; difficulty establishing and following plans; failure to learn from experience

  • mark

    MV – there is no doubt that you have rattled a few cages since you began posting on Slugger. There is also no doubt that Alan” tabloid” Maskey and his musketeers feel threatened by your presence. Their school yard jibes about your age and where you come from are sad. They consider themselves ” Slugger’s Elite” and they don’t like it when other people want to play.

  • Alias

    Okay, MV, I’ll refrain from directing barbs at you on condition that you refrain from any more nonsense in regard to sockpuppet accounts. And I won’t be the first to break that ceasefire… 😉

  • Munsterview

    Thanks Mark

    My focus on Maskey to his unmasking was not personal, I have given my reasoning as to why I believe he he is much more than he appears to be and that at best he is acting as an agent provocateur.

    It is now up to others to draw their own conclusions as he is no longer even a minor irritation to me.

    As to the rest I earned every grey hair I have the hard way and at least I can look my self in the eye whenever I take a razor in my hand to shave !

  • “one needs roots, place and culture to appreciate that.”

    We’ve all got that, MV. It can get a bit dicey when there’s a lack of toleration of minority viewpoints.

    I co-ordinated an inter-schools group in my spare time back in the 70s and 80s whilst our factional leaders were busily stirring dark passions. We had an open house for all. Occasionally I got a bit pissed off with those who attempted to lay exclusive claims to particular forms of cultural expression.

  • Alan Maskey

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Mon_restaurant_bombing

    La Mon, La Mon, the traiditonal Belfast soccer done to drown out Shankill Butchers, Shankill Butchers.

    The above is the Wikipedia link. It says: The device was an experimental design in which a small blast bomb was taped to the window of the restaurant, and attached to two large petrol canisters, each filled with a home-made napalm-like substance made of petrol and sugar, designed to stick to whatever it hit, a combination which caused much more severe burn injuries on the victims than those suffered in a conventional attack…..The day after the explosion, the IRA admitted that the blast was its responsibility, and apologised for the inadequate warning. Twenty suspected members, including Gerry Adams, were arrested on suspicion of involvement in the explosion, but none has ever been convicted of causing the blast

    Gerry Adams again and again.
    Any explanation for Peter Wilson’s death. Alias has offered one. Is there another?

  • JJ Malloy

    I have now made 3 posts over the last 12 hours. None of them seem to get through

  • JJ Malloy

    “The purpose of mixing the sugar into the petrol was contact with human skin. If it was not intended to explode when it did and to make contact with human skin then they would not have mixed the sugar into it or placed it in a position where it was likely to make contact with human (Protestant) skin.”

    Not true. It was designed to cause as much commercial damage as possible, as it had been used in over 100 commercial bombings (with 0 fatalities) up to that point.
    Why phone in a warning if the intent is to maim/kill?

    You are either deliberately lying or wrong on this one.

  • Munsterview

    Stuff that I know where the last ceasfire I agreed to got me and people like me…….. as you are never tired of pointing out !

    Up to the last post I have taken over six months of unwarranted personalised invective from you, the last post was the first time I responded in kind, not because my pateince was exausted, but because I was ready just now to take you on except ‘Slappy’ beat me to it.

    You offer me a conditional ceasfire ?

    First Turgon folds and will not put Unionst Pride first, he could have gone, cap in hand, to farmer Tom, and borrowed a few bullocks to back up a bet, even if he could not do afford it himself.

    Now you want ‘ rules of engagement ‘ no less.

    Any bloody one of you so called heavyweights really up for a good no holds barred scrap with to use your own words, a ‘bog standard ‘ provo ?

    A symeterical warefare, IED’s and see you over open sights when you least expect it…… meatphorically speaking of course !

    Ceasfire my arse !

  • Turgon

    JJ Malloy,
    The usual reason for this is that you have links in the comments. The spam filter gets suspicious and blocks the comment if there are two or more links in a given comment.

    In addition I have found problems occassionally when comments seem blocked for no reason. I do not know but I wonder if what happens is that you try to resend the comment and the spam filter gets even more excited.

    Actually I am no expert on the mechanical aspects of the site. If you have a recurrent problem please contact Mick.

  • JJ Malloy

    No problem. I think when I use my laptop instead of my usual computer it may not recognize it. They weren’t long posts anyway.

    Thanks for the response.

  • mark

    JJ Malloy – he is both deliberately lying and he is wrong on this one.

  • Alan Maskey

    Gents, you are referring to Alias. Following his post, I went to Wikipedia and cut and pasted. Seems a lot of people believe the Alias story. And no smoke without sugar and petrol induced fire.
    I relally think PSF are on a hiding here and their leaders will have to face up to their responsibilties. Do the crime, do the time.
    Or at least admit it, which they did not do with Peter Wilson.

  • Alias

    Toady, I’ll discard each of your indoctrinated mantras in turn:

    “Not true. It was designed to cause as much commercial damage as possible, as it had been used in over 100 commercial bombings (with 0 fatalities) up to that point.” – JJ Malloy

    That is a claim made by one RUC officer in a book, but by no one else. It is also a war crime, toady, to target civilian population centres or civilian infrastructure in addition to targeting civilians. However, as it was simply a squalid sectarian squabble, we won’t damn the murder gang for its ‘war’ crimes when the laws of war don’t apply to sectarian murder gangs. Referring to their actions as human rights violations and criminal acts is the correct format for condemnation.

    “Why phone in a warning if the intent is to maim/kill?” – JJ Malloy

    So that brainwashed muppets such as yourself can excuse calculated sectarian murder as ‘accidental’, why else? Essentially, it is plausible deniability, but is confirmed as bogus by the frequency with which it was used. If the Shinner murder gang did not intend to murder civilians then it would not (a) have engineered a napalm substance for the specific purpose of burning them to death, and would not (b) have placed napalm in a civic building.

    It seems almost farcical to regard sectarian murder gang members as being concerned about the risk of life to others that result from their murderous activities, but even at that you at least expect them to have designed a fail-safe means of issuing warnings if they actually gave a toss about the human life they specialised in taking. The fact that they used the excuse of ‘botched warnings’ time and time again indicates that it was exactly that – an excuse.

    “You are either deliberately lying or wrong on this one.” – JJ Malloy

    It is entirely factual:

    “Analysts described the content of the bomb as home-made napalm – as used in the Vietnam War – where sugar was mixed with petrol so flames ‘stuck’ to whatever they burnt – including people.”

    In regard to the torture of Protestant civilians by the murder gang:

    “Over 20 years later some people were still being treated for the injuries they sustained at La Mon.”

    At least the Shankill Butchers dispatched their victims quickly, whereas the Shinners preferred to let some of their victims live knowing that the remainder of their lives would be lived in the misery that was purposefully engineered by the murder gang.

  • Munsterview

    More of the Alan & Alias double whammy act.

    Dixie when writhing his accounts of his time as Government press sec for Albert Reynols said of Dick Spring that he was touch all the time and when he was not there he had Fenlay to be touchy for him.

    Seems over the months almost on any anti Republican rant, if Alias is not there on the thread and on a rant about Republicans, then Alan Maskey is there spewing the same tripe mirroring every contribution of the former down to personalized abuse.

    Of course being the nonjudgemental type I am, I just note this in passing !

    Alias claims that there is no connection between the two and that all of this is accidental and accidental. How bloody marvelous for them that two people that share so many of the same views can so consistently complement each others inputs to produce consistently negatives on Republicans that when combined are more than the sum of their parts.

  • slappymcgroundout

    (a) Sorry, but that simply is not what I said. The PIRA was not otherwise a “murder gang”.

    (b) Didn’t say that either. If the UVF had focused on killing PIRA members then whole other story. Not my fault that they adopted the motto of any Taig will do. As we both know, the intentional killing of civilians would be war crime. Do you admit that the UVF’s intentional targetting of non-combatants was war crime? So you and the rest can’t help but get the point, did they even make the attempt to separate the civilian supporters of the PIRA from the rest? No, they did not. Any Taig will do. For the PIRA the, any Prod will do, was the rare exception and not the rule. So there is an obvious distinction between the two.

    (c) If the state wishes to preserve and protect itself, the state can and will do so. So if the state wishes to treat the activity as crime it may do so. The state here did so. Incendiary devices are otherwise used for more than killing humans. As I related here on Slugger in another context, the primary reason for firebombing Japan was the fact that the houses were made of wood and paper and there is a better chance of the adjacent factory catching fire if the surrounding neighborhood catches fire. The incendiaries were also dropped on the factories themselves, i.e., the incendiaries were not reserved for or intended to kill humans.

    (d) They disappeared people because as a revolutionary movement they did not have the luxury of having a jail or a POW camp. We’ve already been over this point before on another thread. As I said then and will now say again, owing to its revolutionary status, the revolutionary movement is ill-equipped to adminster justice. You otherwise know that Michael Collins was not incorrect in stating that in war time it is no crime to detect and destroy both the spy and the informer. In other words, even our notions of war crime make exceptions.

    (e) Maskey is the only one here who speaks to prayer, or more correctly, his going to Mass. I never otherwise said that the Butchers or anyone else were sexual sadists and that because there is simply no evidence that they were. I won’t otherwise speak to the matter of projecting except to say that your introduction of sexual self-gratification may speak to your desire to toss off. Have at it. Though my Roman Catholic friends would call it mortal sin. So careful, I suppose.

    Next, where to do you live? The ROI? So are you advocating that your Dail return sovereignty to Her Majesty since, as you put it, neither Republican nor loyalist murder gangs have any moral, legal, religious, or national authority to murder people. I suppose that you’ll be appearing before the US Congress and asking the Congress to transfer sovereignty to Her Majesty as well, since the revolutionaries in my country, acccording to you, lacked the moral, legal, religious, or national authority to murder people. All of those formerly colonized will presumably have to do so as well, since they too presumably lacked any moral, legal, religious, or national authority to murder people.

    As for me, remember, I am a card-carrying member of the US Republican Party, and so on that note, as ole Abe said during the one inaugural speech:

    This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.

    For more of ole Abe:

    If by the mere force of numbers a majority should deprive a minority of any clearly written constitutional right, it might, in a moral point of view, justify revolution.

    And we can go beyond party to include:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

    So, you were saying? As I said, the state, or more correctly, those who wish to preserve and protect their state can do so. And let history be the judge.

    But so you and the rest can’t help but get the point, was there a basis on which Dred Scott could make revolution? Nat Turner?

    How about the young Louise Nakamura and the other folks here:

    http://tinyurl.com/2uy7r5h

    But you’re right, merely claiming a purpose doesn’t make it moral. But surely the fellow who proudly proclaimed that NI is a Protestant state for a Protestant people cannot complain that non-Protestants sought to overthrow his Protestant state.

    Lastly, I have addressed your last paragraph above, i.e., yes, those in support of the state, even Jew-hating Nazis, can take up arms to preserve and protect their Jew-hating state. Again, let history be the judge.

    Almost forgot, but nice try re war victor. Call it a draw. For now. You see, some weren’t fighting merely to preserve their link, that claim is horse feathers. They were also fighting to preserve their Orange supremacist state. They preserved their link, for now, but lost their supremacist state, as the “niggers” of that state now have a veto. And instead of the house niggers, aka the Stoops, wielding the veto, it’s instead the field niggers, Sinn Fein. So no more NI version of Jim Crow and not otherwise my fault but theirs that they rejected Gerry Fitt only to be stuck with Gerry Adams.

  • Munsterview

    “……At least the Shankill Butchers dispatched their victims quickly…..” Alias

    I personally knew the late niece of a victim of one of the British Army Intelligence run Shankill Butcher Gang. She at the age of ten found her uncle cut up in a barrel. For the rest of her life until her early death from cancer she remained in the first stages of shock suffering from severe post traumatic stress disorder.

    According to Nationalist community lore, that man was held alive and lucid pleading for death for around seventeen hours. I have the privilege of knowing the then British Army Doctor that stopped the so called ‘Interrogations in depth’, the conveyor belt system of torture and we have spend many an hour discussing these events. He has also given evidence against the British Government to both EU institutions and to the UN.

    These Shankill Butcher Killings were an integrated part of the planned and calculated campaign of Low Intensity War as advocated by Brigadier Frank Keetson, a man who was a tireless advocate of these type of counter insurgency activities. They were carefully designed to cause mass anxiety, blind fear and paralysis in the Catholic community.

    This decisions to carve up Catholics in a macabre and ritualistic way done to spread complete and paralyzing terror in the Catholic community by the same British Army Intel Officer types as led pseudo Mau Mau gangs in Uganda and Keyna who as perks of the job let their men rape, kill and spread mayhem in the villages they raided. Of course the anti-Catholic sectarianism got an outing too with several Nuns targeted and raped for International shock value.

    Not from a book but from a niece and nurse of one of the Mau Mau leaders when she trained in Ireland in the Late sixties. She too was shocked and PTSD by what happened to her villages even though she had only these stories from her uncles, aunts and relatives direct experience, she was still traumatized and having nightmares arising from the British rapes and murders of her childhood people.

    In my thirty five odd active years I have also met Greek Cypriots fighters and even Irgun and all had their own version of the Shankill Butchers inflicted on them in one way or another.

    And then Turgon, Robinson et al dare to lecture me as you do on the morals of terrorism when the man who pioneered this ghastly terrorizing butchery on innocent human beings ended his military days as Aid de Camp to Queen Elizabeth who put medals on his chest for hands that were well blood soaked before he ever see a days active service in Ireland.

    I can write this and without anger because there other voices here on this thread and I need not name them on the protestant side that are as opposed to that butchery and barbarity as I am. If you were genuinely concerned about violence then you too would have a blanked condemnation of all violence across the board be it instutional of otherwise.

    It is unclean that you revert to word semantics and pseudo / medical diagnostics that have no agreed psychiatric consensus and most of which cannot be legally defined to attempt to cover up the true nature of the these events. That makes you little different to David Irving and what he is attempting to do, the difference is only in scale !

    You cannot deny the Shankill Butchers, you will not unqualifiedly condemn their actions as you know they were an essential part of the British Army Low Intensity War against Irish Republicans, so you must to blur the difference and attempt equate like with like.

    I do not hate that sad bastard Len Murphy for what he did, no more than I do others of that murder gang. Any hate and contempt I have is for the men who sat around polished tables and planned these things, over see their execution and then like Nazi Officers who had overseen the atrocities in the death camps, went home to their wife’s and families in pleasant English suburbs or sat down by the Queens side to dine just as the Camp Commandants did at Hitlers..

    If you are trying for true psychopaths then go to the British Establish Ruling Class, the Generals and other senior titled Officers who can casually order these things and then stroll out on to a cricket pitch and applaud ‘playing the game’

    Once within forty eight hours of leaving clouds of tear-gas in the Ardoyne in yet another riot I found my self in Clacton on Sea looking on at such a cricket match. I had promised to take part in a cultural event, I stood up before a room full of people that night back in London and said I could not participate. I told of what I had left in Ardoyne and what I see in Clacton on Sea and contrasted the two, I spoke from the heart about what my people were subjected to.

    Before I had finished speaking the Leading Cultural Figure who organized the event stood up and put her arms around me, another followed and another until a was surrounded by ten middle aged Middle England weeping women. Men too, a man there offered to give me his war medals the following day to disassociate himself from what was happening.

    I do not hate the English, one of my ancestors cousins had dispatches intercepted and copied while organizing a joint uprising with Norfolk leading Catholics against the Tudors. Their region got even worse and more barbaric treatment than our Kingdom Of Desmond. Decent English people have been fighting these forces across ages and kingdoms just like we have and while there is breath in our temporal bodies for like our sisters and brothers of the better known, later white rose, we fight the same evil personified.

    Not another story Alias, just ordinary decent people and I fear far from any decency that you or Maskey could relate to.

  • Alan Maskey

    Munster Monster’s latest 1000+ oeuvre which does not mention Peter Wilson even in passing (Wilson remains a non person and his murder a non event)
    I personally knew the late niece of a victim ……. I have the privilege of knowing the then British Army Doctor … Brigadier Frank Keetson, (er, Kitson, actually)…..Not from a book but from a niece and nurse of one of the Mau Mau ….In my thirty five odd active years I have also met Greek Cypriots fighters and even Irgun ( Irgun, the serial killers, oh well)…..
    Once within forty eight hours of leaving clouds of tear-gas in the Ardoyne in yet another riot I found my self in Clacton on Sea looking on at such a cricket match. I had promised to take part in a cultural event, I stood up before a room full of people that night back in London and said I could not participate. I told of what I had left in Ardoyne and what I see in Clacton on Sea and contrasted the two, I spoke from the heart about what my people were subjected to. (This paragraph is so funny )
    Before I had finished speaking the Leading Cultural Figure who organized the event stood up and put her arms around me, another followed and another until a was surrounded by ten middle aged Middle England weeping women. Men too, a man there offered to give me his war medals the following day to disassociate himself from what was happening. (But this one may be funnier but please note General Manstein is the main victim and it is all about him)
    I do not hate the English, one of my ancestors cousins had dispatches intercepted and copied while organizing a joint uprising with Norfolk leading Catholics against the Tudors.(Is he taking the piss?)
    Not another story Alias, just ordinary decent people and I fear far from any decency that you or Maskey could relate to (Probably because we not are not psychotic psychopaths who defend napalming people and that wer can condemn the abduction, murder of and burial of a mentally handicapped guy in an unmarked grave)

    And no words on Peter Wilson yet.

  • Munsterview

    Maskey Unmasked

    You like Turgon are yesterdays news; it is no longer about you, live with it !

    As far as my life experiences go, readers by now are a) with me b) have an open mind or c) against me. I have enough of a feed back from my National and International cultural and academic friends to know the impression that I have made here.

    I am not dismissing you by any means, the above contribution is typical Cop mind set, mock and deride everything in a statement and then use the persons own words and statements back against them. Others too no doubt have noticed that, remove your capacity to google and you do not have a contribution to make, much less an original thought in whatever you have that pass for a mind.

    You can only react to what others post and feed on it like an old, toothless mangey fox living on road kills. You are so transparent.

    However like that psychological numberer you got to do on Granni T, you get to use people once and once only, I bet she will not fall for that again and it also left a very unpleasant taste in the mouth of others in this slugger core community who do not like mind games or being manipulated or seeing a decent sincere person like her ‘being played’.

    I could have hid behind Munsterview and lobbed bricks and stones of abuse at all and sundry, as you do with Maskey unmasked, instead my colors are there nailed to the mast for friend and foe alike for all to see.

    Maskey unmasked, like all of your kind, you may mock others, which at the end of the day is all your limitations render you capable of, but until proof to the contrary is produced here, all the evidence points to the fact that in the autumn of your life, most of what made you had to pull a chain on and flush afterwards.

    Given the amount of excrement that has ended on this site from you, there must have been a considerable amount of that !

    I gave this week to tidy up and draw a line under you. Big boys games, big boys rules, leaving the running in this anti Republican Rant to Alias, he at least is a professional and worth his salt.

    You on the other hand are a perfect example as to why Criminal, drug-dealing gangsters run every city and town in Ireland, uneducated, illiterate adolescent coke-heads still covered in pimples are running rings around your kind.

    So Maskey unmasked, I cannot say it was nice knowing you, in fact it was most distasteful and unpleasant but like stepping on dog-shit on the street, all one can do is scrape the sole of the shoe as clean as possible on the kerb and walk away.

    I am doing just that with this post.

  • Granni Trixie

    MV:You obvioulsy sincerely believe that I “had a job done on me” but it passed me by.

    This means that that I am a bit stupid
    not to notice this ‘job’ or its about your interpretation.
    I think it is the latter.

    PLEASE: no long replies.

  • Munsterview

    Granni T,

    A bit longer than intended, but you have raised important issues and this is not all about you no more than it is about me.

    Start by considering this, in the post concerned, I had set up Maskey unmasked as a target for jokes and ridicule as I was preparing to leave the creation to whatever ‘ wizard of oz’ is behind the curtain.

    Maskey did not see it coming and walked into it, under normal circumstances over a dozen other posters would have turned on him and continued the ridicule and jokes.

    You see the funny side of it and responded, Maskey pounced on the opperutunity to do a damage limitation.

    1) you were accused of having a lack of empathy for the victims. ( this also served notice on all other intended posters mocking him that they could expect more of the same )

    2) He immediately referred to a piece of writing from your good self that meant a lot to you and claimed to have been personally moved by it. ( in the jargon it is known as building empathy with the subject )

    3 ) Using your exchanges he moved the spotlight away from his own foolish lack or awareness in allowing himself to be made a target of ridicule by me or any possibility of others joining in to mock him, and refocussed it away from him and back on the Anti-Republican agenda that he is running. ( take control and re direct using the ‘conversation’ with by personalizing a conversation to do it )

    This Maskey creation is some piece of work. However as I have previously pointed out, it takes a certain amount of skill to maintain a false flag and the clever clogs behind Maskey as now unmasked, just did not have it.

    Granni T, in regard to the Late Peter Heart you pointed out that you came to an appreciation of what a history community meant, likewise slugger as a community exists and in that I accept that you have an Alliance perspective, others have DUP, UUP, or whatever. In the broad sweep of things I support Sinn Fein but in the main some of the ‘suits’ there would much prefer that I ignored slugger and went back to reading posts only.

    If I were to make a contribution to the core slugger community I could only do so by saying ” Here I stand, I can do no other” and interfacing with those who would deal with me on that basis. Much to the chagrin of Maskey unmasked and others, many regulars have done just that.

    My 6 November 2010 at 3:02 am…… post was aimed as much at young dissident republicans and a reminder to the Old Guard reading slugger, of the fact that there is a decent Middle England there, as it was for the benefit of the middle ground slugger community posters here.

    Because slugger is important in the ‘ hearts and minds’ and it has a very important contribution to make in consensus politics, I participate here. If I did not think so I have many more pressing calls on my time and energies.

    A few posters here with a securitcrat agenda attempt to control and influence the flow of every thread and keep an anti Provo attitude going to prevent communication and outreach. My long detailed posts to counteract this are over, I have defined where I am at, I tried to give some insights into republican mindsets and that done I can deal with issues as they arise on a more focussed way.

    I will also do that in my own time and way and neither Turgon, Maskey or Alias will set my agenda for me, irrespective of how often they try.

    In fact I am not being fair to Dear Old Admiral Windbag to include him in this company, he like me has the courage to state his principles and stand his ground for Queen and Crown……… at least to the point of where it involves a few bets and the ‘Half Crown.’ Full credit to him to that point however !

    Maskey unmasked has a simple approach to me, mock and ridicule everything I say. Others, TUV sources had the same approach until what a Canadian friend described as a…… Turgon: deer meets headlights…..moment. I accept that Turgon is sincere in his beliefs as is David Vance et al. Likewise your good self, John EB, my old sparring partner Pip and others.

    ( Incidently I heard on the grapevine that Pip had a very distressing experience Holloween night, her broomstick was stolen and she had a long walk home in some very bad weather conditions. That unfortunately is Ireland nowadays, nothing safe anymore, not even in the wilds of Mayo .)

    However there are a few posters here also running securecat agendas, among the goals of which are, Keep confronting Sinn Fein with claims that they lost,……… Keep confronting Sinn Fein with claims that they failed in their goals,………. keep confronting Sinn Fein with claims that the IRA freedom struggle was totally infiltrated and run by the British,……… Keep confronting Sinn Fein with claims that they are administering the Six County statelet for Britain etc.

    In short cause doubt, disillusion and despair in the broad republican family that they did not attain anything or that they cannot attain anything and that everything they did since 69 was a total waste.

    Alias, Maskey unmasked et al following this agenda want me diminished and discredited on this site for the same reason that their kind tried to first prevent Republican spokespersons from getting visas for the USA at the time of the ceasefire.

    They failed and then produced Sean O’Callahan to do a Maskey on every Republican spokesperson appearing. When the daughter of the man she claimed O’Callahan murdered, served Irish High Court proceedings on him for her fathers murder on an East Coast TV Studio with millions watching Coast to Coast. Callahan’s use was over.

    This fight is ongoing; recently I rounded on Alias and fired a few shots over his bows on things that passed beneath the awareness of most posters and readers here. Result next post he offered offered a ‘ conditional ceasefire ‘ no less. Expect things to get ‘down and dirty’ in that quarter from now on…… unless of course he backs off and leaves the debate here find its own levels. I will more or less ignore Maskey now that he is unmasked.

    Grannie T, John EB, JJ Malloy, JoeC Greenflag, ArdE etc, I have shown how on a recent thread Alias and Maskey,unmasked hogged 30% of the thread for their usual anti-republican rant. This is about bar for the course, it is seldom under 20% and I would not be surprised to find it running up to run up to 40% or 50% on some threads.

    If all of the regular contributers like those named, and the occasional ones such as Big Maggie, want this site to be a genuine community exchange, then please take ownership of it. tell Maskey unmasked and Alias to take their double handed ‘Mr Ignoramus’ and ‘Mr Sophisticated’ anti republican bile elsewhere. This site should be about politics, not about Maskey / Alias polemics, propaganda and covert agendas !

    Meanwhile my own long posts will too be curtailed, Here I stand, I can do no other and readers and other posters should by now, know where that is.

  • pippakin

    MV

    My broomstick is safe and sound! Mayo is wild and beautiful and, compared to other places, very law abiding.

    Stop being so dramatic, write the historical posts you did not exactly promise but did say you would do when you ‘got time’.

  • Munsterview

    Glad you got it back, !

    I am not posting for the fun of it, that ‘dramatic event’ was a seminal one for me and that is why I shared it.

    I have frequently referred to the fact that I am also in contact with a wider academic and other special interest groups. As well as a sharing this with a wider readership, it was also a wee word of appreciation to my Seassanach friends to let them know that their many acts of kindness were not forgotten.

    As to Maskey unmasked, I believe that he is far from a troll but we can agree to differ on that. However other than being on the alert for an opportunity to whip the curtain aside and expose the ‘Wizard of Oz’ I am finished with him.

    Anyway the decks are cleared, a normal ( and much briefer) service will resume.

  • Munsterview

    Nevin,
    Sorry for not getting back to you but that particular post was to let another poster know that if the personal invective continued, things could get very ‘down and dirty’ There are rules to every game, even to ‘ the game with no rules’. My broadside it seems did have the desired effect.

    “……..one needs roots, place and culture to appreciate that………”

    I know the work that certain people up there like the various members of the extended Vallely family, Marie Jones, the late James Simmons, the late and lovely Davie of ‘flying fox’ films and many, many others and what they did to keep the lines open. Time and again all during the troubles I took part in cross cultural events up there to help those keeping these same lines open.

    Far from in anyway not appreciating the cultural aspect of the Planter stock, I am proud to say I came from a Gaelic family stock where on three different occasions one of ours was given full power of attorney over his estates and a whole Kingdom by one of the most powerful Norman/ Irish Lord of the day when he had difficulties with the Crown. My people honored that trust.

    I had my first invite to speak on these intercultural links from a C of I organized event in the early seventies, despite my personal politics and I have been doing so since, in one of the most recent I arranged for the son of a British Army Colonel who is a leading academic in his own right to give a talk on the hidden protestant heritage of a area and as to how these values manifested into politics in the late 19th and early 20th century.

    For some of us Nevin, the concept of a republic is much more than a name, we are actually working and always have done to make it the pluralist, all embracing reality that it was intended to be.

    I look forward to the day when those of Protestant Ireland who live in the Six Counties, will reclaim their own Culture heros of the nineteen century as in the words of Yeats they were indeed ‘No petty People’

    I will go further and say that until the values of the 98 United Irelanders, the Young Irelanders and the IRB protestant leaders are reclaimed, then we will have a Republic in name only, a shadow without substance whether this is in Twenty-Six counties or Thirty Two. The Presbyterians of 98 would have been as horrified, appalled and repelled by Devs abomination and the Ireland ot the thirties to the sixties as Northern protestants rightly were.

    We can now start discussing a new Ireland or be sleepwalked into an extension of the existing one and I sincerely welcome any contribution that you and others like you can make to that debate.

  • Alan Maskey

    Munsterview’s 3 November 11.04 pm post claimed myself and Alias were hogging a thread (which had been pruned) by posting 33% of the lines in it, as against 9.5% for poor, persecuted, misunderstood Monster.
    Prior to this post, there were 26,219 words in this thread, with Monster posting 10,061 or 38.37% of them, most of them about either himself or his fictitious ancestors and contacts. He was asked a simple question by Granni Trixie and he could not answer it. He does not listen; he is psychotic and, if his insane posts are a guide, he is fixated on toilets and human excrement for reasons we will leave to the type of psychiatrists who specialise in killer cults .
    Further analysis reveals: I have mentioned Peter Wilson, the subject of this thread on many occasions and many others have mentioned Jean McConville, the most high profile of the Disappeared. Monster’s posts mention neither. This is despite being asked his opinion about his PIRA buddies mutilating them.
    Monster, who issued a condolence statement here on behalf of PIRA for Whitey Bradley and who has regaled us with his daring exploits (putting a gun to the ear of an unarmed junkey) for Mother Ireland, is mute on the subject of this thread.
    Monster cannot shut his trap. Gardai and other law enforcement bodies like criminals like that as they sing like canaries, which is why Provos don’t like them (cf the rumours about Whitey and Keeley). Perhaps Monster’s endless tall tales sent them to sleep or killed them of boredom, something he is trying to do here too. Or perhaps his daring Provo exploits are, like everything else, a product of his sad (lack of) imagination.

  • Alias

    MV, I notice that the ‘ceasefire’ was immediately broken by you, and I am not at all surprised by that. Sorry to disappoint you but your attention-seeking behaviour won’t get the result you crave beyond this, my final, post to you. I have read some nonsense on Slugger (and even posted some of it) but never the flood of unmitigated self-indulgent, narcissistic twaddle that you have posted, as illustrated perfectly on this thread. Now, no doubt, you will see this rejection as part of some cunning securocrat plan to discredit you and rally valiantly against it or else claim some great victory for ‘republicanism’ from your incessant blathering, but I honestly couldn’t give a flying fig what others think of you and, indeed, can only admire the endurance of those who actually read your posts. I will no longer respond to you because you’re wrecking threads with your nonsense, and I don’t intend to get banned along with you when Mick Fealty’s patience finally wears out. I suspect you’ll soon be as welcome as Liam Adams as caretaker of an all-girls orphanage.

  • Munsterview

    In general I will no longer respond to false flag Maskey other than to occasionally refer readers to this post. http://sluggerotoole.com/2010/10/24/the-events-of-1641-transformed-irish-history-and-as-a-result-can-be-justly-said-to-have-transformed-british-and-world-history-as-well/ Munsterview 27 October 2010 at 6:46 PM for a deconstruct and explanation of Alan Maskey. Comment unnecessary.. MV

  • Munsterview

    Alias : 5 November 2010 at 4:27 p.m.

    Okay, MV, I’ll refrain from directing barbs at you on condition that you refrain from any more nonsense in regard to sockpuppet accounts. And I won’t be the first to break that ceasefire…

    Munsterview : 5 November 2010 at 5:40 p.m.

    Stuff that I know where the last ceasefire I agreed to got me and people like me…….. as you are never tired of pointing out !

    A symeterical warfare, IED’s and see you over open sights when you least expect it…… metaphorically speaking of course !

    Ceasefire my arse !

    Alias 7 November 2010 at 12:41 am

    “…..MV, I notice that the ‘ceasefire’ was immediately broken by you, and I am not at all surprised by that..”.

    You pathetic lying little spiv of an Intel desk jockey, there was no ‘ ceasefire’ I rejected your terms out of hand.

    Your unchallenged propaganda days are now over. Like Callahan in that East Coast TV studio, all you can do is cut and run.

    To all Republican and Nationalist readers of whatever shade out there, especially the young bunch, take a good read of this thread and see what ‘ they’ are really like when it is put up to them. The pen is mightier than the sword, just have a little more patience, our generation have done the heaving lifting for you, give those who have their measure a chance to do a little more and finish what we started.

    Alias, if Mick want to turn over slugger to Brit Intel to run anti-republican propaganda diatribes unchallenged, then he has my number and em and he has only to say the word.

    However, if as I think, he like the rest of us, want Slugger to make a contribution to a New Ireland and a new future on this Island, he will not see this coming from Brit Intel quarters or the heart of the British Establishment or from those that support the mindsets that gave us Dr Kelly’s Death and the hundreds of thousands others in the ongoing 21 century, unprovoked and unnecessary wars.

    Neither will any Unionist of whatever shade with any wee bit wit

    This is the future, you are the past, you failed in the hills of Armagh, you failed in the halls of Parliament and you have failed here. Learn to live with failure, your collective glory days are over !

    “……..The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past……”

    Masky have done his best to foster division while you have propagated the myth of Republican Failure !

    That ‘accidental’ complementary double act of ‘Mister Ignoramus and ‘Mr Sophistication’ is now clearly seen by all for what it is. You may think yourself finished with me but I am far from finished with you !

    Slappy…. nice bit of work on Alias, you handled your brief well. I suppose I must offer you a congrads on the Republican victory, I have been following events there closely, one of our clan in the Mid-West hosted a Tea Party and the family is keeping me posted. I have not too much faith left in Obama at this stage but I am not ready to give up on the Democrats now or for the foreseeable future.

  • Alias

    Well, the unsuspecting readers of Slugger are certainly lucky to have an online investigator of your exceptional calibre to expose any “Brit Intel” propaganda hacks that may be lurking among them for the purpose of, presumably, undermining those who have signed up to the constitutional legitimacy of British rule and are busy assisting in its administration via the reinstated Stormont.

    But surely the Security Services would be undermining those who don’t take Her Majesty’s shilling and not does who do? Margaret Thatcher declared the security policy of the British state to be that “the minority should be led to support or at least acquiesce in the constitutional framework of the state in which they live.” So why then would the Security Services undermine those who led “the minority” to endorse “constitutional framework of the state in which they live” when it is the security policy of the British state that they should be led to endorse British rule via their own leaders? A bit like your side-kick, Slappy, logic isn’t your thing, is it? The Shinners are merely proffering the terms of their own surrender as a blueprint for a united Ireland and can their sycophants can be fairly described as haven eaten more shit than a pile of bulimic dung beetles.

    And while you’re even doing a little victory dance here thinking you scored a knock-out for the cause by downing a couple of British agents, I really don’t see how you could claim to have even landed a single blow unless, in some parallel universe, ‘a single blow’ means picking up your teeth with your broken fingers. The fact that it took a crowbar to extricate Alan Maskey’s steel-capped boot from your ruptured rump is a testament enough to whose arse actually got kicked here, you senile old goat. You couldn’t hit a duck at a fairground shooting gallery even if you had an UZI submachine gun in one hand and a HK MP7 in the other.

    Incidentally, I wish someone was paying me to read your twaddle, but alas no one has been kind enough to make me an offer yet.

  • Alias

    The interesting aspect about Shinnerism’s adoption of the doctrine that it is the legitimate government of Ireland is that it automatically denies the Irish nation’s right to self-determination by denying that nation the right to duly elect its own government and to duly determine its own affairs.

    What is interesting about it particularly is that is parallels the claim made by the British state that the Irish nation has no right to elect its own government and to determine its own affairs. The British state made this claim in regard to the entire Irish nation prior to partition but after partition made it in regard to the Irish national diaspora in the partitioned territory.

    So the British state and the Shinners both held the same position in regard to the legitimacy of the Irish state and in regard to legitimacy of the Irish nation’s right to self-determination.

    The Shinners’ constitutional position now conflates exactly with the constitutional position of the British state as the British state has declared that position to be in the Government of Ireland Act 1920; the Ireland Act 1949; the Northern Ireland Constitution Act 1973, and in the Northern Ireland Act 1998.

    Essentially, the Shinners undermining of the right of the Irish nation to self-government and its undermining of the Irish state was a very useful tool to a state which opposed the legitimacy of the Irish state’s claim to sovereign British territory and opposed the claim of the Irish national diaspora in its sovereign territory to national self-determination.

    The other useful function of partition is that it allowed the British state to change the purpose and meaning of Irish republicanism. Prior to partition, the purpose and meaning of it was to assert the right of the Irish nation to self-determination, whereas the British state changed this purpose to unity after partition.

    The old purpose and meaning required the removal of a foreign state whereas the new purpose does not require the ending of British sovereignty and, indeed, it was always envisaged at the time of Government of Ireland Act 1920 that Ireland would eventually be re-unified within the United Kingdom, wherein the British nation and its state would continue to be subject to the veto that is now legitimised in the GFA and forms a constitutional requirement of reunification as outlined in the British Irish Agreement.

    If the Shinners didn’t exist to create the duress and political conditions whereby the Irish nation in the partitioned territory would sign up to the legitimacy of partition as set out in 1920 in return for a cessation of sectarian murder campaigns, then the British state would have to invent them.

    Since only states can declare war under international law, it was also important to the murder gang that it could claim that it was the government of a state and could thereby claim that its murder campaign was actually a war. Were it not so, any bunch of ignorant puppets and touts could murder all around them and think of themselves as soldiers of some sort or other, giving themselves grand military titles along the way. It is also why we see the other murder gangs that have replaced PIRA using the expedient doctrine.

    Essentially, the old IRA asserted the right to national self-determination of the Irish nation in the absence of alternative means but after that right was obtained, they were then bound by the principle of national self-determination that was obtained for the nation by their campaign.

    Self-determination simply means that the people determine their own affairs, so it doesn’t mean that small numbers of self-appointed gang members can usurp the right of the people to determine their own affairs. It is always the will of the majority, and never the will of the minority. That, of course, shows a profound ignorance of what the principle of self-determination entails.

    Therefore, murder gang members who acted to deny the right of the Irish nation to exercise their right to self-determination were always, and by definition, traitors to the Irish nation. This total ignorance of the meaning of self-determination would naturally delight the British state which would naturally seek to capitalise on the ignorance to its own advantage, particularly in regard to formally renouncing that right which they had no actual understanding of.

    When Thatcher spoke about the long-term plan to lead the Irish national diaspora to endorse the “constitutional framework of the [British] state in which they live” she knew that they could be led to do that through the ignorance and duress that was carefully created and managed by that state in its own long-term constitutional interests. The muppets would be none the wiser…

  • Alan Maskey

    1. Argue the facts. Monster cannot even mention Peter Wilson, let alone discuss his brutal murder.
    2. Argue the circumstances. He does this with la Mon etc.
    3. Call names. Well, we are all securocrats.
    He hijacks all threads he enters, brings them back to his own unreal world and, Adams like, claims victory when he feels like it. This thread should be about Peter Wilson and the other most shocking crimes of PIRA and Gerry Adams’ involvement in them. Don’t be sidetracked by a fool.

    There is a saying The fool knows not that the fool knows not. Here we have a fool who likes us to believe he was a knave, sticking guns into the ears of unarmed junkeys. Who amongst us would like to boast, in public or in private, that we stuck a gun into the ear of Charlie Armstrong, Jean McConville or Peter Wilson. Not I for one.

  • Munsterview

    “….You pathetic lying little spiv of an Intel desk jockey, there was no ‘ ceasefire’ I rejected your terms out of hand…….” MV

    “…..I will no longer respond to you because you’re wrecking threads with your nonsense, and I don’t intend to get banned along with you when Mick Fealty’s patience finally wears out…..” Alias

    I see your stated promise to ignore me lasted as long as the rest of the broken promises your kind made to anyone unfortunate enough to be in their blackmailing, duplicitous, thrall.

    There was no ‘ ceasfire ‘, I rejected your terms out of hand and your attempt to portray your self as having taken an ‘honorable stance’ is as false as most of your propositions on slugger.

    Every time you stick your hooked nose into Irish affairs from here on in you will get it bloodied from me….. metaphorically speaking of course.

    I absorbed over six months of unending personalized invective from you and I did nor respond in kind up to the last few posts, because I was not ready to do so. You know what is in my arsenal and where this can go, there are a fair few cows in my herd. In the words of John Paul Jones, I have not yet begun to fight !

    How I respond to you from here on in entirely depends on how you conduct yourself on the battlefield. You can start by conceding that there was no ‘ceasfire ‘ and that you lied…… something that all slugger readers can see for themselves anyway. If you do concede that then I will see how you conduct yourself from there.

    It will be interesting to see how you handle your admission of lying, you committed a cardinal breech of your own agency protocols, you could not keep fact and polemic propaganda separate, you must always do so when both are known to the target audience as here. Are you really that rattled that you cannot keep a grip of the fundamentals of your craft ?

    Your indignation regarding Maskey unmasked is misplaced and bloody unprofessional of you if I may say so, it is quite legitimate and within the rules of the game to uncover an enemy intel asset.

    Face facts here, while Maskey unmasked had his uses in the past, he was well past his ‘sell by’ date and had become a liability. He had become so ineffectual that if I had not exposed him, somebody else would have done so.

    I am not sliddering around in the shadows or loitering with intent around corners, I have stood in the clear light of day and spelled out how I will respond here in slugger in replying to posts and propaganda whether that comes from some On Her Majesties Service or a toe rag like the Maskey creation…

    “……I will also do that in my own time and way and neither Turgon, Maskey or Alias will set my agenda for me, irrespective of how often they try…….” MV

    See you across the barricades old chap …… and make sure that you are wearing body armor !

  • Munsterview

    See… 7 November 2010 at 12:48 am…above.

  • Alan Maskey

    See also Munsterview of 7 November 2010 at 2:11 pm“….Every time you stick your hooked nose into Irish affairs from here on in you will get it bloodied from me….. metaphorically speaking of course

    Assuming Alias is of the same religion as Leopold Bloom, Monster is starting the name calling that ends with putting people in gas ovens; sucvh abuse is, I beleive also illegal and against the rules of this site. You can read, if bored, some of his diatribes against me, comparing me to human excrement (his fetish) on a shoe.
    Besides showing he does not belong on a family site, it also shows a connection with the mind set of the Shankill Butchers, who also liked to demean their targets, a point I previously made . It also helps validate Alias’ point that the Butchers types lurk on the PIRA side of the house.

    And stil no mention of the late Peter Wilson.

  • Munsterview

    Nice one Alias, person exposed so switch to the polemic !

    To quote Maskey unmasked, paraphrasing Eamonn Dumphy, a good post but not a great post.

    You do of course raise some very important issues that should and will be death with but I will only do so when I have had the opportunity to contextualize the arguments and a bit of groundwork is needed first.

    James Bartley the Irish actor well known for his role in Fair City and other such things has a drool sense of humor. He has also seen many a ‘suit’ producer come and go in his time at RTE. Some ten years back one of these wet behind the years new producers took over and started to bear down on everybody during rehearsals.

    Bartly who could do his lines in his sleep took off to the toilet with the sports pages of the paper. The producer was outraged, stopped the rehearsal and send a runner for Bartley. The runner returned somewhat embarrassed and discomforted.

    ” Did you give Mr Bartley my request ” he demanded ?

    ” Yes sir I did”

    ” Well out with it what did he say”

    ” Please sir he said to tell you that he could only deal with one shit at the time”!

    Now that Maskey is unmasked and flushed away so to speak, I will give you, or rather your craft the respect it deserves but in my own time and way.

    Your lot may not be finished setting agendas in Ireland, I said months ago that you would still be playing silly buggers as the last British Occupation Garrison Troops marched up the gangway of whatever ship or plane is taking them from Ireland, as happened dozens of other Colonial situations that you were powerless to prevent, where the Brits had previously been Lord and Master, before risen peoples kicked them out, but that do not mean that we Irish have to respond to that agenda.

    I personally and most certainly have no intention of doing so.

  • Munsterview

    “…….comparing me to human excrement (his fetish) on a shoe……” Maskey unmasked

    Do not flatter your self, I did no such thing, I used a dog shite metaphor !

    ‘ Getting hooks into something’ is a common English Language metaphor.

    ” Poking your nose into somebody else’s business’ likewise is a common English Language metaphor.

    You will make as much mischief as possible with it but my record is there, readers and posters know whatever sins can be laid at my door, I have never been deliberately sectarian, racist, or anti-semitic, which is more than can be said for you as all three are consistently done by you !

    Very interesting and curious indeed indeed however that a self advertised, good christian gentile should immediately made that assumption and was immediately able to make a cultural contextualization connection also !

    You are the one that turned a common allusion, or should I say two linked ones into a anti-semitic remark and identified Alias as a Jewish Poster, if indeed he is. You ought to be thoroughly ashamed of your self…. if you had any shame that is, as you have proven that you have not.

    It is one thing to hit below the belt to score points off a poster, it is quite another to turn a third party religion and cultural affiliations into a polemic football to score points.

    You are simply despicable. No in fact you are beyond despicable

  • Alan Maskey

    The despicable one is you Monster. I thiught Alias was a Southern Prod, definitely Irish. “stick your hooked nose into Irish affairs ” assumes he is non Irish but knowing he is Irish and that you are a narrow minded bigot, the conclusion would appear obvious.
    So now you are saying I am like the excrement of dogs. I am sure the Shankill Butchers would agree.
    As I told you before, you would not have last five minutes in a Garda station. Kind of odd you never did time.

    Yes, on my march to London, I attended Mass today. The readings were from Macabees, relevant to the Shankill Butchers and Peter Wilson, whose name and whose death this thread is supposed to be about.

    The singers were mostly Africans with some great base sounds, perfectly complemented by the Church’ acoustics. I felt Turgon types might be affronted by the definitely pagan beat and the Portuguese priest speaking of his time amongst the polygamous tribes of West Africa might have further confirmed his belief in Rome’s essential paganism. The English were tolerant as ever and got into the swing of things. As for me, I know it’s only rock and roll but I like it.

  • Alan Maskey

    “stick your hooked nose into Irish affairs”

    Alias: How do you interpret this? I say it means Monster says you are Jewish. He says my interpretation means I am anti Semitic.

  • Munsterview

    See… 7 November 2010 at 12:48 am on this thread.

  • tacapall

    This wee spat has more words than the lord of the rings trilogy. People can write what they want, you dont have to take any notice of it. Who cares if Alan Maskey is Alias or whoever and who cares if Munsterview was/is/thinks he was Irelands answer to Che, your little spat is getting boring stick to the topic, its about Peter Wilson. Im a republican and what happened to him and all the other dissapeared was wrong, It served no purpose other than punishing their family, masking their injuries from the torture they obviously suffered and hiding other peoples double dealings with their so called enemy.

  • Alan Maskey

    Im a republican and what happened to him and all the other dissapeared was wrong, It served no purpose other than punishing their family, masking their injuries from the torture they obviously suffered and hiding other peoples double dealings with their so called enemy.

    well said

  • pippakin

    tacapall

    The murder of the disappeared was premeditated and sadistic, over the years it has been the greatest disservice to republicanism and there is every possibility that the condemnation will grow rather than diminish.

    MV

    Please, please stop feeding the damn troll.

  • Munsterview

    Pip,

    Noted and already done !

    However I could not leave that attempted anti-semitic set up go uncommented on.

  • Alan Maskey

    See also Munsterview of 7 November 2010 at 2:11 pm“….Every time you stick your hooked nose into Irish affairs from here on in you will get it bloodied from me….. metaphorically speaking of course

    Putting “Jewish hooked nose” in parentheses into Google, we get this:
    http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&biw=1043&bih=753&q=jewish+hooked+nose&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=%22jewish+hooked+n&gs_rfai=&fp=ac007db151890001

    Monster seems to model himself on the Citizen in Ulysses. Both are cardboard characters and funny in their own way. (But Monster, the failed businessman and wanna be terorrist is no Mick Cusack).
    But let’s wait to see what Alias says about the above slur.

    And, of course, no comment on the late Peter Wilson, who was only dog shit to the Shankill/Falls Butchers who buried him like a stray dog, a simile very much in line with the sick thinking of their main defender here. If he was connected with PIRA/PSF, they would tell him to shut up.

    Now back to priicng sota security systems for me, so adios.

  • pippakin

    MV

    The troll is hungry DON’T FEED IT!!!

  • Alan Maskey

    See also Munsterview of 7 November 2010 at 2:11 pm“….Every time you stick your hooked nose into Irish affairs from here on in you will get it bloodied from me….. metaphorically speaking of course

    Going to the Jewish Encyclopedia here:
    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=345&letter=N
    we are told, beginning on the second line:varieties of noses have one class which they call “Jewish,” or “Semitic”—prominent, arched, and “hooked” noses. It has been pointed out that this Semitic nose appears in ancient Egyptian monuments, in figures representing Semites.

    Monsterpoo, our sick, sad resident anti Semite who cannot spare a word for Adams’ Gang victim Peter Wilson but can issue statements on behalf of Army Group South for Whitey Bradley.

  • pippakin

    MV

    Regretfully the adios didn’t last long. The troll did not get a ‘bite’ so it is back! Dont Feed the Damn Troll!

  • Alias

    “stick your hooked nose into Irish affairs”

    “Alias: How do you interpret this? I say it means Monster says you are Jewish. He says my interpretation means I am anti Semitic.” – Alan Maskey

    I interpret it as it he meant it: a racist remark, meant to demonise those who are Jewish.

    He is aware that I am Jewish, so there is no other explanation for it. For example, in his post dated 4 November 2010 at 2:28 am above, we see the outsider reference again, and note again that this status of outsider is based on not being Catholic.

    “Are you quite sure Alias that you are not projecting from your own religious jewish exclusiveness experiences into a Roman Catholic Culture in which you are a mere onlooker, a very poor observer and badly informed one at that, if your postings in slugger are anything to go by ?” – Munsterview

    Does the anti-Semitism of this MV despicable toad surprise me? Not in the slightest. This is a man who will justify the napalming of Protestants and the disappearing of other ‘outsiders’ such as Ms McConville.

  • I practically never edit the comments I get on blogs: I do actually believe in pretty complete freedom of speech.

    I must confess, however, to a certain disappointment about this blog. I had hoped to highlight Mr. Wilson’s discovery and also the ongoing plight of Lisa Dorrian’s family. Unfortunately those aims seem to have been forgotten some time ago; though thank you to those who have mentioned the wrongness of Mr. Wilson and Ms Dorrian’s fate.

  • Alias

    Well, in a roundabout way your blog did serve its purpose. And more important than empty condemnation, you got an insight into the ruses that are used by otherwise normal people to justify the deeply abnormal.

  • pippakin

    Turgon

    I too am a firm believer in freedom of speech. I’m sorry if I have assisted in ‘lowering the tone’.

    Pippakin

  • Turgon

    Alias and pippakin,
    I have no problem at all with your contributions to this thread nor to any others.

  • Alan Maskey

    Leopold Bloom, the anti hero, is now the most quintessentially Irishman of them all. He, rather than John Hume, was Ireland’s real man of the 20th century.
    In the famous Citizen v Bloom scene, Bloom wins the tussle. He is by far the more likeable. The Citizen prefers hanging around with his lackeys and making a gobshite out of himself. Though I feel this was unfair to Cusack, Joyce, in Portrait, does reject Irish nationalism, the sow that eats its young, as he says. Joyce probably had a point.
    And what was Turgon’s point? “I had hoped to highlight Mr. Wilson’s discovery and also the ongoing plight of Lisa Dorrian’s family. “ Well, he has done that, albeit in a minor and, on the surface, trivial way. Though we have to be careful extrapolating, I feel the exchange has given us, consciously or not, an insight into the type of mind that would disappear helpless people like McConville, Armstrong and Wilson. Though Dorrian’s fate is equally tragic, its perpetrators and the events leading up to it are slightly different.
    My late mother (I too have ancestors) used to tell me how, during the war, Ireland’s Jews used to look for boltholes lest Hitler landed. She told me that after the horrors of the Nazi camps came out, she, an apolitical Irish Roman Catholic, had nightmares about it. Ordinary people like her or us could not imagine the depths to which people will sink. A Christian Brother told me years ago, and I am sure the late Denis Faul amongst others said it many times, that it is when we are no longer shocked, that when we are numbed to it, that we are lost.
    Almost all ethnic Catholics and Protestants can sign up to that. Isaac Singer expresses it well in The Penitent.

  • Alan,
    I have noted that you have mentioned Mr. Wilson on a number of occasions and I am grateful to you for that. I mean no criticism of you. Incidentally I see you are a fan of Ulysses: a brilliant book and I am also a fan of Joyce.

  • tacapall

    Alan fair enough you like to bring us on a long journey to wherever you are going, some people just like going to A or B “your” opinion not some fkrs in 1870 or whenever is asked.

  • Munsterview

    For the general readership and other posters, the following is some of the personalized invective dished out on this thread against me by Alias…… and this is on a bad day. On one of his better days ( for him ), the count can well exceed this.

    In this thread having finished with the unmentionable rabble rouser and agent provocateur, I then began to deal with Alias in a systematic way. Given that he has been dishing insults to me thread after thread, subject after subject, for months it is a bit rich for Alias to now plead victimhood after my second focussed post on him and go crying to mama.

    1) What you are missing in this discussion, MV, apart from the point, is a functioning cerebral cortex and the correct dose of a butyrophenone class of antipsychotic medication, probably Haloperidol.

    2) MV, you’re a like one of those toothless old codgers in state care homes who bores anyone that will unwittingly listen to him with old ‘war’ stories and mundane anecdotes and who makes the poor, overworked nurses wax nostalgial( sic) about the good old days sans regulatory inspection when they could have kept you in a drugged and blissfully silent stupor beneath your tricolour(sic) dunce cap for most of the day.

    3) Now, having observed you and your raving paranoia little closer than I’d have liked, your credibility has disappeared faster than a large plate of chocolate chip cookies in front of Mary Harney. Do me a favour,(sic) old timer, and go stalk someone who responds to your nonsense with something more edifying than pity…

    4) Now, having observed you and your raving paranoia little closer than I’d have liked, your credibility has disappeared faster than a large plate of chocolate chip cookies in front of Mary Harney. Do me a favour,(sic) old timer, and go stalk someone who responds to your nonsense with something more edifying than pity…

    5) I suspect you’ll soon be as welcome as Liam Adams as caretaker of an all-girls orphanage.

    6) The Shinners are merely proffering the terms of their own surrender as a blueprint for a united Ireland and can their sycophants can be fairly described as haven eaten more shit than a pile of bulimic dung beetles.

    7) The fact that it took a crowbar to extricate Alan Maskey’s steel-capped boot from your ruptured rump is a testament enough to whose arse actually got kicked here, you senile old goat. You couldn’t hit a duck at a fairground shooting gallery even if you had an UZI submachine gun in one hand and a HK MP7 in the other.

    8) a brainwashed Shinner toady and an inveterate attention-seeker

    The days when a Shinner North or South could be abused verbally and physically because of who they were, arbitrary imprisoned, subjected to inhuman and degrading treatment, torture, and assassinated at the will of those who considered that they had a God given right to do this, without a fight back, are long gone.

    Whenever I try to encourage other republicans to post or blog on slugger the same half dozen suspects headed by Turgon, Alias and Maskey are given as the reason that they shun posting on the site, yet most I meet read it. This may be a 90% unionist site but that do not mean that six posters, or at most a dirty dozen should hijack it and turn it into a ‘kick the shinners’ personal vendetta site, which in effect is what had happened.

    Here I stand, I have made no secret of where I came from, no apology for what I am and I have slugged it out with all comers. There were no rules when I was being kicked all over the place and it is now a bit late in the day for the ringleaders of the dirty dozen to be calling for protection or moderation.

    By in large all who have dealt with me with civility have had their manners returned and that go right across the political spectrum from the left ( with one exception) through to David Vance on the right.

    In this regard my posts speak for themselves.

  • Alan Maskey

    Gee. No exit.
    Tacapall: The Americans use English to say something. The Irish use English not to say something. I am Irish. Turgon can understand my post and, hopefully its symmetry. English. like mathematics, is only a language. Some people would not see a priest on a hill of sugar (with apologies to ..)

    The Dead is also a lovely Joycean tale. That beautiful, final scene of the snow falling on the five provinces of Ireland:

    A few light taps upon the pane made him turn to the window. It had begun to snow again. He watched sleepily the flakes, silver and dark, falling obliquely against the lamplight. The time had come for him to set out on his journey westward. Yes, the newspapers were right: snow was general all over Ireland. It was falling on every part of the dark central plain, on the treeless hills, falling softly upon the Bog of Allen and, farther westward, softly falling into the dark mutinous Shannon waves. It was falling, too, upon every part of the lonely churchyard on the hill where Michael Furey lay buried. It lay thickly drifted on the crooked crosses and headstones, on the spears of the little gate, on the barren thorns. His soul swooned slowly as he heard the snow falling faintly through the universe and faintly falling, like the descent of their last end, upon all the living and the dead.
    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    Peter Wilson: 1952-1973. Confirmed dead 2009. Body discovered and buried 2010. Rest in peace.

  • Alan Maskey
  • Alias

    Ethnoreligious nationalism is repugnant, and should stay in the east of Europe despite the attempt of some murder gangs and their toadies to bring it to the west. Dev, for all his faults, was a pioneer of civic nationalism.

  • Alan Maskey

    http://www.thedisappearedni.co.uk/archive/2010/Feb2010/irishnews4large.jpg

    Looking on the site I linked to above, the families come out with flying colours and it is one of those things we prefer not to think about. Dolours Price is also doing the right thing in talking. Not so Gerry Adams in this spat with Price. He deserves a lot closer and more robust scrutiny.

    Nor does Adams’ cop out help. Who was more guilty, Fagin or the Artful Dodger/Oliver Twist. Leaders should take responsibility not only for their actions but also for those actions of their subalterns.
    They should also take responsibility for grooming or blooding their subalterns. In the Butchers’ case, it was important to get everyone to join in in the ritual because it binds and leaves no way back.
    PIRA worked on that sleight of hand too. You helped kill Wilson so shut up. Judges seem to see things a little differently in that they hand out different tariffs to ringleaders and their gophers. Adams should be a man, stand up to the plate and come clean.

  • Munsterview

    Alias

    If you confirm here that you are Irish, living here and hold an Irish Passport in addition to your Israeli one then I will accept that irrespective if you came here last year, ten years ago of if you family have been here since the 19th, early 20th, century or whatever, that you have exactly the same rights to speak out on Irish affairs as I have.

    With regard to the anti-Jewish slur that Maskey unmasked tried to get up and running as another cudgel to wallop the Provos over the head with, I was let know through a third party that the Late Mr Justice Barron had expressed an opinion that he considered that I could be of some assistance to his Judicial Enquiry into The Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The fact that he did so was enough for me.

    Mr Justice Barron came to that conclusion because he knew quite a bit about me, I was a personal friend of the Late Gerald Golberg in Cork, I knew the late David Markus, there are family connections there, I had many a meal in his house and even he even based cultural references in one of his books on a two hour discussion we had on that particular topic.

    I discussed the fact that I wanted to appear before the Enquiry with certain people to establish the parameters within which I could participate and argued my case for the necessity to do so. I appeared before Mr Justice Barron, as I not alone respected the man as an individual, as a Justice of the High Court of the Irish Superior Courts, I considered him a concerned, compassionate and humane man, worth any third if not half the entire High Court Bench combined in this regard.

    If that learned, kindly and distinguished scholarly man was an example of Jewish Values in public life, then like the late Gerald Golberg in Cork, then I wish to God that we had many, many more!

    As an aside, the only other High Court Justice that in my experience was of the same mould was the Late Mr Justice O’Hallron. He was frequently subject to snide comments in liberal circles and press because of his Opus Dei membership and large family.

    When thousands were in misery in this Republic because of a malfunctioning family law system and Judicial and political buck passing, he grasped the nettle and in F. V The Legal Aid Board, this supposedly arch conservative acted with compassion and decency to lay a basis for modern family law as practiced on this State.

    Now to the nub of this issue regarding the fact that you are a jew, to use your own words ‘I could not give a flying fig’ if you are that, or were a member of the ‘Militant League Of Atheists’ as far as your religious affiliations go.

    You Alias on this thread have used your not inconsiderable intellect capacity to attempt to brand Catholic Republican Militants with every kind of pathological deviancy from the norm, that you could marshall to support your argument, without a thought to how this must read to the wifes, children and now grandchildren in their late teens, of former and existing IRA Volunteers.

    You also know that most of these pathologies you attribute to Republican Armed Militants and former Volunteers cannot stand up in an American Court Of Law as for every ‘expert and authority’ that can be produced, yet another ‘expert authority’ can also be produced to give a contrary view.

    You are an intelligent person and for you to use that pseudo scientific babble, gobble-de-gook against Catholics is no different to a gentile using Mein Camp or the Protocols of the Learned Elders Of Zion against you and your religious associates. However in your book apparently what is sauce for the goose is definitely not sauce for the gander!

    It also appears, while you consider that you a have a perfect right to calumniate the Catholic Community and what is now the majority voice of their elected representatives, when I hoist you on your own petard I am labelled anti-semitic ?

    Alias, from here on in I have every right to examine every proposition of yours in the same social, cultural and religious context as you have used your ‘ too clever by half ‘ mentality against my Catholic and Nationalist and Republican community. I did not go behind closed doors to do what I am doing, I gave plenty advance notice that when I was finished with Maskey, you would get my full attention.

    First you tried to brand me ‘a stalker’ then when I ceased to take a passive attitude towards you, you offered ‘a ceasefire’ to limit the debate. I rejected that out of hand. Despite my immediate and unqualified rejection, in the same thread you blithely inform all and sundry that I had ‘broken a ceasefire’

    A transparent lie. Will you apologize for it…in Gogartys infamous words ‘Will you F*** !

    I do not need to labour the point, as I frequently point out people are not fools, readers and posters can see this for themselves.

    I have had press and media censorship on me for almost a quarter of a century imposed and sustained by clever clogs like you on behalf of the Dublin Establishment to keep Ireland safe for a Brown Envelope culture. I was hardly likely to allow you to set the parameters for any debate on this site. Every thing is on the table and that included my right to put your Jewishness under the same scrutiny as you have put Northern Catholic Ghetto culture.

    Mick is the one to get the ground rules here, not Turgon, your good self or Maskey unmasked!

    I also have plenty of International advisers lined up on that from IRD refuseniks to English and North American Academic Jewish friends. Aside from a few religious scholars, all do have one thing in common however, from the brave IDR Refusenic Officers that put their life on the line on the West Bank through to English and North American academic intellectuals, they are all what you would probably describe as ‘ self hating jews’

    I was more than ready for you, all your posts were well scrutinized by your own mindset who well know what you are about. On Jewish issues you will not be arguing with me, you will argue with propositions put forward by other Jew who have a far different world view to you. Slappy beat me to it in this thread.

    Incidently these same sources predicted that you would not stand your ground and debate, that once the Jewish aspect came into it you would use the ‘Anti-Semitic’ angle to curtail the debate or failing that, to exit. Once challenged your usefulness and your ability to propagate your agenda beneath the level of awareness was over.

    I sincerely hope that you will not do either because there is quite a bit of diatribe and sustained anti Catholic, Nationalist, Republican abuse to catch up deal with and with or without your engagement. I am primarily interested in exposing your agenda and propaganda only, but the person and their cultural, religious and other affiliations behind this, are as open for debate here on slugger as you have made mine.

    Indeed the same would apply if the proponent of views was a self professed member of Scientology and propagating ta view formed by their thinking., There is a perfect right to examine and contextualize these views.

    This even more so applies where non violence is passionately advocated in one geographical area of the world such as Northern Ireland and equally unqualifiedly advocated for use in another by Israeli forces such as the Middle East against Iran and the in West Bank against the Palestinians..

    There is then no moral anti violent stand involved by you, only an anti Republican , just a polemic propaganda stand in furderance of an agenda. All this can and should be exposed.

    The Republicans are on their feet and coming out fighting ! After six months of consistently hitting me below the belt without response, it is a bit rich indeed to claim sectarian victimhood the first time you got your own medicine returned in kind.

  • JJ Malloy

    Alias, I’ve been enjoying my weekend but am back and see you have attempted to discredit my argument by

    1.) disproving something I never argued
    2.) insulting me
    3.)discrediting and disregarding the testimony of an RUC officer (the kind of claims you take as the truth when it suits your argument)

    (“You are either deliberately lying or wrong on this one.” – JJ Malloy

    It is entirely factual:

    “Analysts described the content of the bomb as home-made napalm – as used in the Vietnam War – where sugar was mixed with petrol so flames ‘stuck’ to whatever they burnt – including people.”)

    I never disputed that sugar mixed with petrol stuck to whatever they attached to, as you know well. I only said that as the same substance had been used over 100 times by the Provos previously with no fatalities. This mixture was used to ensure maximum commercial damage. The previos 100+ uses of the substance, along with the warning attempts, would cause a logical person to think that the substance wasn’t put together to burn people to death.

    (“Not true. It was designed to cause as much commercial damage as possible, as it had been used in over 100 commercial bombings (with 0 fatalities) up to that point.” – JJ Malloy

    That is a claim made by one RUC officer in a book, but by no one else. )

    Have other RUC officers or officials disputed his claim? Is he lying? If you have any evidence of this, please let me know. Otherwise, I am willing to accept his statements.

    Let me also be clear that I am not defending those cowards who put these people’s lives in danger by playing with fire (literally). They have to live with themselves for the rest of their lives. When the bombing duo was temporarily detained by the RUC before they were able to find a working phone to call in a warning, they could have chosen to give themselves up and inform the RUC of the bomb and save the people from a terrible death or unspeakable maiming. They selfishly and cowardly gambled that they would still have time to call in a warning. It turns out the 9 minutes from the time they could call the warning was not enough to save the victims. I don’t doubt that these men, whomever they were (and I’m sure Gerry Adams knows), probably spent the rest of their miserable lives drinking away the guilt of what they had done.

    Just because it wasn’t their intent doesn’t change what happened. But I doubt that Adams, or whomever was in charge, would have deliberately ordered a massacre like that. Those kinds of outrages only hurt every aspect of their cause.

  • JJ Malloy

    BTW, what was the reason given for killing Wilson?

    Was their one?

  • Alan Maskey

    “But I doubt that Adams, or whomever was in charge, would have deliberately ordered a massacre like that. Those kinds of outrages only hurt every aspect of their cause.”

    Gerry has done ok for himself, as has McGuinness Peter Wilson has not fared so well.
    Though Tommy Gorman says he is totally ashamed of his role in Blood Friday, he didn’t drink himself to death. Gerry Adams looks in fine fettle for his age.

  • JJ Malloy

    Yes, he did fine for himself when he decided that the struggle was pointless and decided to become an administer of British rule.

    At this point he was still actively trying to revamp the PIRA and make it a credible force. Massacres like this led to anger, more catholics willing to help the authorities, lose os supporters, more tolerance for security forces, etc etc.

  • Munsterview

    “.1.) disproving something I never argued

    2.) insulting me

    3.) discrediting and disregarding the testimony ………… (the kind of claims you take as the truth when it suits your argument)

    (“You are either deliberately lying or wrong on this one.” – JJ Malloy…….”

    My, my, Mr Malloy…… so I am not the only one having these same problems with this wee poster !

    Take a word of warning ? be prepared to be labeled a stalker, a pathological sociopath ( he knows loads of big words) , paranoid or anything else that will change focus and distract.

    As to (1) credit where credit is due, he is rather good at that. Instead of complaining why not learn from a Master ?

  • Munsterview

    JJ
    “….Yes, he did fine for himself when he decided that the struggle was pointless and decided to become an administer of British rule…..”

    I would expect that sort or a remark from a point-scoring nillist Unionist source with nothing other than negativity and ridecule to contribute, but not from you !

    I have continually pointed out that the Republican leadership is and always was a collective leadership. From 1986 to the ceasefire at first tier, dozens of people were involved in all critical decisions in a collective, collegiate way and under them a second tier of hundreds of leaders were also informed and consulted on a continual basis.

    During my Ard Conhairle years, after every meeting once I got back to my own area I always discussed and passed on the aspects of the Ard Comhairle meeting that were relevant to ten to a twenty people, some in elected positions and more ordinary members but real leaders in their own localities. Among these were a few people I had personal and political issues with, in fact I always made sure they were first briefed.

    To use an Aussie expression, ‘tall poppies’ or posers throwing shapes do not last too long in the Republican Movement, the well known Northern names such as Martin Mc G, Pat Doherty, Gerry Kelly and Gerry Adams etc are in the positions they are because unlike the kind of politicking that we see in the Fine Gael Bruton damp squib half arsed, limp heave, our leaders are there because they have been tried and tested and have earned their place.

    The defection of Christy Burke in Dublin and the number of republicans that decided their relationship with Sinn Fein arising from this is proof positive, if proof were needed of just how little influence the ‘Great Leader’ concept had with the grass roots in this instant. Despite personal one to one appeals, Christies judgement was accepted and acted on by a significant number of people stepping back or out.

    When the Blarney /Boland constitutional republicans were exploring certain shared political attitudes, at a Cashel meeting, I remember Kevin Boland doing his……’ I talk, you listen’…. piece such as he was used to in Fianna Fail. Glances were exchanged and one of the Kerry SF stepped forward and said

    ” Kevin, you are not in Fianna Fail now, we will be talked to, not at, if you have something to say say it otherwise keep your blather we heard enough of that from you over the years, get on with it, some of us have to be home to milk the cows”

    To say Boland was shocked was putting it mildly and the Fianna Failure republicans were horrified that we should treat their great leader like that.

    Every republican of note from Munster at that meeting had each measure and respect. When you are in a jail cell in three a clock in the morning with three branch kicking the daylights out of you, unless you know your comrade in the next cell can take the same treatment without dropping you in then you and all associated with you have no business continuing.

    For every Sean O’Callahan that took their couple of hundreds of thousands, betrayed Republicanism, their movement, their principles and their comrades, there are hundreds that took cell beatings, being thrown out of speeding cop cars and all those other things done to Republicans in places where the rules did not apply while the establishment looked the other way.

    It is there in Conor Cruise O ‘Briens memoirs where he describes, even crows, about one such incident where a cop car conveying republicans stopped, the handcuffed prisoners were pulled out and systematically beaten. This was in the government that contained ‘Garret the good’ yet not one of that government party at that time publicly condemned the act. Certainly not Dick Spring or the Cruisers other Labour colleagues. ( Michael D may have done after the book publication, I cannot quite recall just now)

    The Old Guard of my generation of republicans have a different view of our leaders and colleagues to what outsiders have. Just as we most of us have been in those places, North, South, in England and Stateside ( we had prisoners there too) where ” the rules did not apply ‘ with regard to the various Governments, their agents and servants, the rules of how other political parties like the SDLP and the UUP regard their own ‘Stars’ and ‘preening peacocks’ ( or hens) do not apply.

    ( In regard to the SDLP, a party in a democracy that can only mainly define itself by what it opposes in another political party, clearly cannot see the writhing on the wall. They may as well now redefine themselves as SDL, Anti-Sinn Fein Party.

    Increasingly the SDLP collectively resemble the kind of exotic extras lined up with the Monster Raving Looney Party, in a John Cleese comedy sketch sketch mocking election declaration pomposity, and unfortunately will soon be about as relevant )

    But then JJ you are politically literate and know this !

    So what is the reason for your statement in portraying Gerry Adams as you would the leaders of any other political parties on this Island instead of as part of the collective leadership that he is ?