The PUP: soon to be the Mary Celeste?

Yet another member has left the PUP apparently over the murder, by the clearly not on ceasefire UVF, of Bobby Moffett. The latest to leave is former deputy leader and policing board member David Rose; he follows former prisoner Tommy Sandford. Apparently Rose told the Belfast Telegraph that the latest murder had “led to a lot of soul searching.” Why the preceding 28 murders since the supposed UVF ceasefire did not lead to this soul searching, or if they did why he did not leave before, is unclear. Of course that is also to ignore all the murders committed by the UVF before its rather loosely defined ceasefire. It is also interesting that the Christian GP and party leader John Kyle seems not to have decided to leave: will he be the next to leave, will it take another murder or is he now impervious to the murder of working class unionists: the ones his party proclaims it represents (not that they have ever elected him).


  • slug

    Its a bit obnoxious to bring Christianity into it Turgon.

  • Turgon

    The PUP, the organisation of which Kyle is leader trumpet his religious views on their website here. I think it is reasonable to question Kyle’s claims that his religious views have led him to be the mouth piece in chief for the UVF.

  • Stephen Blacker


    Did it ever cross your mind that the reason Dr. John Kyle has taken on the roll which was vacated by Ms. Purvis is because he is a Christian.

  • lamhdearg

    The sooner the pup leave the stage the better hopefully followed by the tuv, BLOODY SPLITTERS.

  • Stephen Blacker,
    Maybe he did take the role because he is a Christian. An odd position, however. The PUP have excused assorted murders, have helped explain away the UVF’s involvement in prostitution, theft, extortion, harassment, drug dealing etc. etc. Indeed frequently members of the PUP have been found to be the very ones involved in such activities.

    I am very dubious about saying what a Christian would or should do in a given situation but in general helping those oppressed by such criminality might seem a Christian response: not helping the oppressors.

  • Stephen Blacker


    No one from the PUP that thinks like Dr. John Kyle has ever “excused assorted murder…etc, etc.” Another way of thinking about it is if you got rid of the oppressor then there would be no oppressed.

  • Turgon

    Stephen Blacker,
    “Another way of thinking about it is if you got rid of the oppressor then there would be no oppressed.”

    So why is it that the PUP have not called for the arrest of the assorted loyalist “brigadiers” (I know the UDA call them that what do the UVF call them?). Why did Dawn Purvis (then PUP leader) protest when Billy Hutchinson was arrested on suspicion of withholding evidence?

    The PUP and Kyle like to pretend that they are trying to persuade the UVF to go away. However, they oppose all attempts by the police to take them off the streets and act as their mouth pieces: remember “Our mandate is the silence of the guns.” Did the PUP support the end of the CTI initiative?

    Kyle and the rest of the PUP’s credibility as opponents of loyalist terrorists is non existent to all save their fellow travellers.

    The PUP are the mouth pieces of the oppressors on the rare occasions when they are not actually amongst the oppressors themselves.

    The reality is that only robust action will remove the cancer that is loyalist terrorists and their pernicious influence on working class unionist estates. The PUP cannot and do not support that action: usually because they are supporters of if not the same people as the criminals.

    Kyle is an intelligent man. The defence of naivety is no longer tenable (even if it ever was) especially when so many of his colleagues have jumped ship over the UVF murders. Kyle remaining in the party is merely showing himself to be a hypocrite: either that or simply a supporter of murderers.

  • Ben Madigan 77

    very bitter piece turgon, sorry the TUV have next to no appeal…

    but to your point
    maybe as a Christian Kyle is called to work with certainly less than perfect people, to try and bring change…?
    he isn’t culpable for their sins, nor does his presence condone them.

  • Turgon

    Ben Madigan 77,
    Yes so he has been bringing change. Except that the UVF keep murdering people. This change he is bringing is utterly non existent.

    Christians can indeed be called to work amongst those who are doing things they may not agree with. However, Kyle is not helping the poor, the oppressed, prostitutes, drug addicts etc. which is what one usually thinks of when such a suggestion is made. No he is helping the drug pushers and pimps, the thugs and criminals and excusing their actions.

  • Stephen Blacker


    Well I am preplexed with some of the things you say at times because Dr. John Kyle and Ms. Purvis have always called for action against any form of crime. With Mr. Hutchinson being out on licence his liberty was at risk because he was arrested so why could the PSNI not have talked to him at the community office where he worked.

    It is obvious that you have set in stone your views about the PUP and anyone associated with them. I know Dr. John Kyle and the person you are talking about is not the same.

  • unionistvoter

    no doubt the fact that Ken Wilkinson aspires to be the next leader will have a bearing on the demise of the party

  • jim

    the police were investigateing the murder of a CHILD so y wouldnt hutchinson be carted off to the station.being a CHILD killer himself ,micheal loughran,aged 16 rip being one of his victims. all child killers in the area must have been pulled in and the pup complaining is a sick joke.

  • Rory Carr

    Turgon is a Christian. Kyle is a Christian. As Tertullian said, “See these Christians how they love one another.”

  • Big Maggie’s ghost

    Stephen Blacker,

    “Did it ever cross your mind that the reason Dr. John Kyle has taken on the roll which was vacated by Ms. Purvis is because he is a Christian.”

    That’s odd. I imagined it was because he’s a politician.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Why are you lecturing people about hypocrisy when you yourself are a member of a party which incorporates those who clearly sympathize with UVF killers, despite the party’s stated public platform in opposition to such people ?

  • Comrade Stalin

    With Mr. Hutchinson being out on licence his liberty was at risk because he was arrested so why could the PSNI not have talked to him at the community office where he worked.

    I hate to invoke the “dogs in the street” cliche but the reasons for Hutchinson’s arrest are well known, and I’m surprised you don’t know what they were (or maybe you’re not letting on).

    Hutchinson himself had nothing to do with the crime (you will note he wasn’t even called as a witness in the court hearing) and I don’t believe he had any personal role in protecting the killers, but the police evidently believed that they would be able to pressurize those associated with the killers into giving themselves up by arresting him.

    It is also fairly clear that the murder was not a UVF “operation”, although in the murky world of paramilitaries and their hold over a community it’s often hard to see where the boundary lies.

    With respect to the current situation it is obvious there is some kind of leadership-related turmoil going on within the UVF.

  • Stephen Blacker

    Big Maggie’s ghost,

    You are correct but the reason I mentioned Dr. John Kyle’s Christianity is because its was being used earlier in this thread in an attempt to belittle him.

  • The PUP problems are similar to other political party’s problems in that they have a part-timer, and outsider, at its head, whenever what they really need is a dedicated smart paramilitary minded leader of men, and not a doctor, who by all accounts believes in a phantom divisive figure and religion, which has been the cause of arrogant conflict and the ignorant death of countless millions since it was invented and pimped on the lazy-minded and meek and weak?

    Which is a question, because whenever offered as a statement will it be hotly disputed without any great thought usually in the codemnation.

    God is Dead, said Nietzsche, …. and left the building, ages ago. Which means that Future Building is a Creative Work in Progress for Smart Beings who share Simply Great Ideas?

    What Simply Great Ideas are being shared with us by those squatting in the Big House on the Hill? Will the next one be their first one?

  • Oops … sorry, that should be condemnation.