Cowen: No obstacle to Queen Elizabeth II visit

As RTÉ reports [Updates added]

The Taoiseach has indicated that Queen Elizabeth II will probably make a state visit to Ireland before the end of next year.

Speaking in London after a meeting with British Prime Minister David Cameron, Mr Cowen indicated the visit might be before the end of President Mary McAleese’s second term in office at the end of next year.

The Taoiseach said that no obstacle now exists to prevent a state visit to Ireland by Britain’s queen taking place.

And the iol report adds

“I think that would be a good development,” the Taoiseach said.

“I think also that the importance of an exchange of state visits says a lot about the modern bilateral relationships we now have.

“We have started a process between both the Prime Ministers’ offices whereby we can look at this prospect.

“I would like to see this happening during the tenure of our own President (McAleese).”

Mr Cowen, who met Mr Cameron for talks in Downing Street, said a state visit by the queen, and a return trip to Britain by an Irish President, would be part of the normal courtesies enjoyed by friendly, neighbouring states.

Update According to Sinn Féin Dáil leader Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, TD.

“Sinn Féin opposes the proposed state visit of the Queen of England, Commander-in-Chief of the British armed forces. Until there is complete withdrawal of the British military and the British administration from Ireland, and until there is justice and truth for victims of collusion, no official welcome should be accorded to any officer of the British armed forces of any rank.”

Adds  As Seymour Major pointed out recently, a visit to Ireland by the UK’s head of state in 2011 would “mark the 150th Anniversary of a visit to Killarney by Queen Victoria in 1861.”  And

Such an anniversary would also coincide with the 100th Anniversary of the last visit of a British Monarch to Ireland by King George V (the Queen’s paternal grandfather) in 1911. 

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  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    So Queen Elizabeth is visiting a long lost part of her Empire … the 26 counties of Ireland known as the Republic of Ireland today.
    She’s more than welcome of course to visit our sovereign independant state…but I do think that in these credit crunch times the bill will for the whole tour will be enormous. Ah well, sure the Irish taxpayer is footing the bill for everything nowadays.

    Besides I do hope that she will come to Ireland and have a pleasant time and return home with fond memories. Hope no wooly headed half-wits will be out throwing spuds and shouting abuse, thus endorsing the stereotype us Irish folk as being uncivilized, uneducated, thick and peasants like. Let her come and go, it would a better image for our country would it not. It’s all only symbolism in anyway.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    So Queen Elizabeth is visiting a long lost part of her Empire … the 26 counties of Ireland known as the Republic of Ireland today.
    She’s more than welcome of course to visit our sovereign independant state…but I do think that in these credit crunch times the bill for the whole tour will be enormous. Ah well, sure the Irish taxpayer is footing the bill for everything nowadays.

    Besides I do hope that she will come to Ireland and have a pleasant time and return home with fond memories. Hope no wooly headed half-wits will be out throwing spuds and shouting abuse, thus endorsing the stereotype of us Irish folk as being uncivilized, uneducated, thick and peasant-like. Let her come and go, it would a better image for our country would it not. It’s all only symbolism in anyway.

  • smicks

    hear hear Michael. Unfortunately this attitude from is very common from several Southerners that I’ve met. Little do they realise that such arrogance is only isolating Northern nationalists and making Northern unionists deny any Irish part of their identity.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “How can you have normal courtesies with a state which is in military occupation of part of your country? You toady, Cowen! And all the rest of the west brits who haven’t been able to wave their British flags since 1912. The world sneers at you.”

    Hey Socaire, did ye ever hear of the Government of Ireland Act? How about the Anglo-Irish Agreement? How about the Good Friday Agreement? etc….

    BTW, were you the one wearing the Celtic soccer jersey and carrying the sign ‘No foreign games’ while protesting outside Croke Park a few years ago?

  • jonno99

    It’s a tough call for the Dublin govt having invited QE2 to Ireland to then make sure her state visit passes off peacefully. Security will be a problem if she’s allowed to go walkabout down O’Connell Street, collecting flowers off the adulating crowds and other such compliments these royal visits usually engender……..sure you never know?

    Back in 1911 QE2 grandfather George V made a royal visit to Dublin. It went ok, so I’ve read. There were peaceful protests but perhaps the more vociferous protests awaited Prince Charles decades later, when he made an official royal visit in 1995. But then as he is colonel-in-chief of the Parachute Regiment that was only to be expected.

    The fact that Ireland (island of) is currently politically divided into two jurisdictions should not, in my opinion, preclude a state visit from QE2. The national question is often sited as an objection but today there’s an imperfect peace ‘process’, which may one day deliver a united ireland by consent (50% + 1 will do it).

    A major objection is the part the British state played in obstrucing investigations into the activities of sections of the British state security services during the dirty war in the North. The recent Bloody Sunday verdict plus the humiliating apology, given by Prime Minister Cameron in the House of Commons, must go some way to assuage this objection? QE2 remains Commander-in-Chief of the UK’s armed forces but at least her PM has made an important apology. It’s a step in the right direction.

    Intransigence works both ways. Opposing the state visit until everything has been politically delivered for nationalist Ireland only means a long long wait for the flower sellers.

  • Michael

    I think Cormac’s intention is purely to troll, he/she pops into pretty much every thread to repeat this little nugget ad nauseum.

  • Michael

  • Greenflag

    ‘but perhaps the more vociferous protests awaited Prince Charles decades later, when he made an official royal visit in 1995. But then as he is colonel-in-chief of the Parachute Regiment that was only to be expected.’

    From what I can remember Prince Charle’s visit was a ‘propaganda ‘ success . There may have been a few ‘protestors ‘ but they were hugely outnumbered by ordinary Dubliners who welcomed the man and he later went off for a bit of fishing in the west of Ireland . The Duck himself has been and Edward has been seen doing some shopping in Arnottts in Henry Street. Princess Anne has been several times .

    In brief this is no big deal except for the few on both extremes who want to make a mountain out of a mole hill .

    Anyway the Royals and especially Queenie are deserving of our ‘respect’ but not our loyalty . Their ancestors had plenty of opportunity to win that loyalty over the centuries but they failed . Loyalty has to be earned not given and in the case of the British monarchy in Ireland it was never earned 🙁

    The fact that some 15% of the population on this island mostly in the north east corner are loyal to HMQ has more to do with their local geographical and historical and religious circumstances than any deep seated reverence for the Windsors I would imagine .

    But then probably 30% of England’s population and possibly more of Scotland’s are probably ‘republican ‘ in ethos i.e anti monarchy .

    To paraphrase an old slogan

    ‘We serve neither King nor Kaiser’

    And to update that old slogan

    ‘We serve Wall St , the IMF and the international bankers and hedge fund managers ‘ :(((((

    Maybe Queenie is not so bad after all ? . The ‘household ‘ costs only a mere 7 million pounds a year . Not that much more than the combined mortgages of about 20 houses in your average Dublin suburb :(((

    But way ahead of the same suburb in terms of ‘tourist ‘ potential eh ;)?

  • Greenflag

    I can see the Bord Failte ‘ Ireland of the Welcomes ‘ marketeers offering all in “Queenie Specials ‘ along the lines of

    ‘Come to Ireland and visit the Queen ‘

    or better still perhaps

    ‘ Come to Ireland and let the Queen visit you ‘

    I only know one Queenie joke so to lighten up the mood here it is 🙂

    Hope springs eternal in County Wicklow regarding football success. Some years ago they won the Leinster Championship and felt that All Ireland glory was within their grasp. This prompted a Wicklow mick to ask a friend from Kerry, who had been a member of numerous All Ireland Champions’ teams, about the protocol for receiving the Sam Maguire Cup.

    “Ah shure ye don’t have to worry once yev won the match” answered the Kerryman. “Ye’ll file up a few steps and ye’ll be handed the cup by Queen Elizabeth II herself .”

    “What would have the queen at a GAA match?” asks the startled Wicklowman

    “Well she’ll be handin’ over Sam before Wicklow ever wins the All Ireland -said the Kerryman

  • Cormac Mac Art

    You are mistaking sincerity for facitiousness.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Peter – ?

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Damm good point!

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Honestly lads, its not to troll.

    Sure, I like messing with yer heads but all my posts have a serious point/s at heart. And that is giving a view from ‘the south’, which believes that a united Ireland is not a good idea.

    Michael – Ireland is the legal name of the Irish state. Eire, as gailge, if you prefer. We are the only country in the world with the right to use it.

    Smicks – northern nationalists ARE already isoloated from those of us in the Irish state by virtue of their unique history and political situation. We couldn’t care less about the unionists.

    I don’t deny Irish people in Ni their Irishness. I’m just pointing out that they do not live in the Irish state, and that their views do not always accord with those of us who do. Why? Because we live in different countrys.

  • the future’s bright, the future’s orange

    2016 isn;t that far away lol

  • the future’s bright, the future’s orange

    a bit more often than the pope lol. and probably more welcome than the pope would be in ireland too,..

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Not so. You know as well as I that if a referendum where held here tomorrow to incorporate NI into our country, we’d vote NO by a country mile.

    Why? Because what’s in it for us?

    We DO look upon the north as another country, which in fact it is. The Troubles set the cap on that; their internal politics differ greatly from ours.

    The views of the community that should, in theory, be closest to us – nationalist/republican – we find backward, sectarian and deeply insular. Otherwise, Sinn Fein would have more than just four TD’s in the Dail.

    Their concerns are purely local.
    Ours are national.

    The two Irelands went their seperate ways in 1922, and that’s long enough for people on either side of the border to think of those across it as ‘other’.

    To northern nationalists, the south may not be a united ireland. But to us, it is a united country. And for many people, that’s quite enough.

    All this will come across as the words of a troll. I can’t help that. I’m expressing what I consider serious points as bluntly as possible.

    But if you, or anyone, can give me good reasons to support such a scheme, I will. Straight offer. Please reply.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    But who would form that 50% + 1?

  • socaire

    The citizens of your beloved Northern Ireland, of course. We only have to persuade 5% of yous.

  • Michael

    the view from ‘the south’ is just your view.

    i was born in redcastle donegal, you no more speak for me than I speak for people from the shankill or falls

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Don’t you think you would have to convince at least 50% of us?

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Okay. Why then should there be a united Ireland?

  • socaire

    But it does have a certain irony. The Free Staters fought like bagged cats to get the trappings of the English state out of bits of Ireland and now they can’t wait to get them back. I heard some oul’ buffer from Mayo on Joe Duffy today telling about the time he got his MBE from HM and he talked about the British mainland. Are there any people in the 26 (29?) counties who aren’t crypto west Brits?

  • socaire

    Those ‘agreements’ were not made by the Irish people but by Free Staters. An’ shure soccer is not a foreign game.

  • socaire

    How can she be President of Ireland if I didn’t vote for her?

  • socaire

    No no no! we already have 46% of the population of the 6 cos. We are going to join you whether you want us or not.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    But we have 100% of the population of the Irish state, so ….

  • Cormac Mac Art

    If we had experienced the Troubles to the same degree as NI, we’d feel the same as northern nationalists.

    But we didn’t, and our relations to the UK differ because of that.

    Little wonder that so many northern nationalists look askance at southerners.

  • Michael

    Sorry, I’m missing the part were i was persuading you one way or the other as regards a UI.

    My conversations with you are related to your tedious trolling. You don’t speak for ‘the south’ you don’t have any control over what northern nationalists call where they live and you’re too dumb to know the difference between a historic county and an administrative county.

    Most of all, your broken record posts are just plain boring. Give it a rest.

  • socaire

    Ireland wasn’t a republic in 1953? ? ? ?

  • Alias

    If catholics who are unionists don’t exist in your equation, shouldn’t someone tell Northern Ireland’s richest man, Edward Haughey, Baron Ballyedmond, that he isn’t a catholic or else isn’t a unionist? He seems to think he is both. You’d be lucky to get 50+1% of catholics in NI to vote for a UI…

  • socaire

    Will you fight to keep us out? That would be a turn up for the books.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Whatever about us down south, Alias, surely at least 50% of northern nationalists would vote for a UI.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    I don’t think it will come to that because the votes for a UI just ain’t there.

  • socaire

    Alias, who would ever have believed that the Free Staters would have voted us out of Ireland .. twice?

  • socaire

    Yous experienced worse in the 1920’s and you still sold us out.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Then relate to me on my own terms. I don’t support a UI because I don’t see any good reason/s for it BUT I am open to persuasion. Be the one to persuade me, and my trolling will vanish. Straight offer.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    So why then do you want to united with us?

  • socaire

    We want to put manners on the Free Staters what done us wrong ……………. twice.

  • smicks

    I do not believe that a politically united Ireland is necessary. We can still have a united Irish identity while have two separate political states (I think the term for this is an ‘agreed Ireland’).

    However, arrogance shown from southerners like Cormac here only hinders this. Implying that only the south is the “real Ireland” only makes Northern Nationalists want to continue the “struggle” to be part of this “real Ireland”. Similarly Northern Unionists despise the implied territorial claim to the whole island. More importantly, many from both sides in the North despise the hijacking of the English language term “Ireland” over anything else, continuously causing totally unnecessary confusion and ambiguity.

  • foyle observer

    We meet again, you blatant troll.

    I thought you were sick of people from Northern Ireland refering to people from the Republic as ‘southerners’?

    Why don’t you do yourself a favour and go away and study Ireland’s history you immature little sixteen year old bore.

    You serve no purpose on this blog at all.

    All i have ever seen from you is the regurgitated rubbish that is ‘i’m from Ireland and you from Northern Ireland are from the UK’. It’s extremely tedious. Go away.

  • socaire

    We actually don’t want to ‘be united with any body’. We want our all – Ireland Republic that we were promised.

  • foyle observer

    But that wee kid ‘Cormac’ doesn’t realise that just before 1921, the whole country, that is, Ireland, under British rule, fought a bitter war, akin to that which continues to this day against the British Army. His great grandfather was probably a RA man himself.

    He’s just a kid, leave him to speak his shite. We’re all British up here in the North sure, and we just started a war ourselves didn’t we, nothing like the people of his beloved ‘Ireland’, you know, ‘the South’, where no one wants a United Ireland anymore.

    Sure Padraig Pearse has been forgotton about didn’t you know?

  • socaire

    Cormac may be trolling but he does represent a sizeable section of the Free State opinion with his point of view. Us northern Irish running amok in the Dáil is their worst nightmare. Believe you me!!!!

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Ha ha …Socaire use of terminology demonstrates that he is living way back in the misty past. The world has moved on and left the likes of you well behind.
    BTW, bombing and murdering one section of a community on this island into accepting a United Ireland never worked, it is a monstrous and now defunct ideology. No wonder Ireland and her people are divided when it has the likes of you with your hard heart and bitter mind shit-stirring and driving the wedge in deeper between the people of this island. Why members of the British Unionist community in Ireland are aghast with the likes of you and your warped thinking is very understandable!

    You do not even know the meaning of a Republic!

  • foyle observer

    A ‘sizeable’ section perhaps but most certainly not sizeable to not wish for a United Ireland. He’s completely deluded if he seriously believes that a majority of the Republic don’t want the country united.

    Honestly, and i’m finished with this thread and ‘Cormac MAC Art’, he must be about 15 or 16, he certainly comes across as a child.

    Done with this rubbish. He’s putting me off reading Slugger at all to be honest.

  • Michael

    “I don’t support a UI because I don’t see any good reason/s for it BUT I am open to persuasion”

    No you’re not, you’re here to troll.
    That’s why you pop into every thread trying to wind up northern nationalists with your ‘I live in the real Ireland’ bollocks as opposed to asking questions of them.
    Besides I couldn’t care less if you wish for a UI or not.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Ha Ha ….. true, and with the current Taoiseach that resembles something out of a 19th century Punch cartoon it only endorses the age old stereotypes of ourselves.

  • I believe the majority of people in the south want a united Ireland, but they do not want to murder anyone to get it, they do not want private armies.

    If the Queen comes to Ireland there may not be an overwhelming welcome, but there would be a welcome.

  • socaire

    Yeah, let’s forget it all and move on. Stay focussed and leave the dinosaurs behind. The same dinosaurs that provided you with your sovereign state, Greg.

  • Michael

    I think the last poll in the republic put support for a UI at 70+%
    22% said it should be a priority for the govt
    50% said it should happen, but there were more pressing concerns that should be dealt with first

    I think that pool was about 4 years ago, so I imagine the pressing concerns % probably got bigger 😉
    Ironically, there was more support % wise for a UI in the republic than amoung catholic respondants in the north in a similar poll

  • Michael

    I agree about the percentage, in hard times priorities tend to centre on the personal.

    I dont find northern catholics caution surprising, those outside the brain washed communities dont want to find themselves on the inside! and have to learn that the south is, if not a different country, definitely a different place!

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Yep Socaire, well that’s the hard facts that are to be swallowed. You cannot change history. The island of Ireland was partitioned. There is a sizeable amount of British folk living in the north of Ireland today. Northern Ireland does exist. Harking on about the past and wallowing somewhat in national self pity will not change a thing. But change is indeed happening today, right under our very noses. Times have changed for the better in NI. NI is not the same as it was. The days of murder and mayhem are thankfully gone. Old prejudices still remain but are fading with the newer generations of children growing up. There is a sizeable and thriving amount of confident Irish Nationalist folk in NI. Relations between Ireland and Britain today have never been better. People have worked hard to make this happen. So why jeopardize it all? Why open old wounds Socaire? Why not be optimistic and look to the future. Most Irish people have found it in themselves to do so, despite our history.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Thanks for the reply, smicks. I do appreciate it, and it was well worth reading.

  • Greenflag

    If you want a UI socaire – breed don’t bleed . It won’t be achieved in any other way . Breeding is a lot more fun than bleeding and does’nt do as much damage to the carpets or furnishings and is far healthier ;)?

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Michael, Pippakin, Greagoir, Socaire, Alias, Greenflag, and even Foyle Observer – thanks for the posts. I’m grateful for all your insights, especially those in the past few hours. You’ve all genuinely given me food for thought. Sweet dreams, Cormac.

  • Cormac

    I have found your comments worthwhile. It is interesting to explore the differences between opinions.

  • Alias

    Cormac, ignore the ‘fair gaming’ and attempts to marginalise/demonise/discredit from the usual suspects. Unity is now about extending the Unionist Veto from Northern Ireland to the rest of the island, such that the Irish nation should renounce its right to self-determination by rendering it subject to the veto of another nation and its state, and accordingly dismantle their nation-state and replace it with a bi-national entity wherein two non-sovereign nations will compete with each other for control of one state. No one in Ireland would vote for unity if they actually understood it. Even if they are hoodwinked into it by quislings, it won’t last more than few years until they realise what a dysfunctional mess that Whitehall contrived with the GFA and the troublesome foreign nation is hastily repartitioned with UN involvement. The whole thing would be a tragic mistake, and one that would be Whitehall’s doing. If you word a question is a very simplistic way such as “Would you like to see a united Ireland in your lifetime?” when a majority will unthinkingly reply ‘Yes’ but if you worded it as “Do you think that the Irish nation should convert itself into a non-sovereign nation and give up its homeland so that those who already have a homeland in GB can more at home in Ireland?” then they’d look at you like you had two horns. My view is that only the quislings would vote for unity under the GFA if they actually understood it, but no Irish nationalist could ever do so since the GFA it is a profoundly anti Irish nationalist agenda.

  • Scamallach

    “crypto West Brits” – classic.

  • Scamallach

    Have you been sucking back on the diesel fumes, he is the most pointless person I have had the misfortune to read on Slugger.

  • Michael

    Northern Catholics have probably got as many reasons for being cautious as there are northern catholics.
    It’s just a personal opinion, but I think if civil service jobs get slashed it will increase support for a UI. Steady civil service jobs made small u unionists out of many catholics, without that carrot, some may reevaluate their ‘loyalties’ as it were.

  • Mack
  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    and probably more welcome than the pope would be in ireland too,..

    Perhaps even in the south.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Wrong Cormac.

    Look, I look at the TV and all I see is wall to wall Britain’s Got Talent, The X Factor, British soaps etc….I go to the newspaper stand and all I see is predominantly British newspapers etc….. We are engrossed with British sports and personalities and celebs, well so we are led to believe … But when it boils down it’s all only eye candy and wallpaper!

    Besides all that, what you speak of is the surrendering of our sovereignity as an independant Ireland. Well that will never happen. Any changes in Ireland’s position would have to go to a referendum and frankly the people would never vote for it. The people would never vote for rejoining the British Commonwealth either for what’s done is done regarding history. You are being by consumed by hysteria! Remember the Unionists are the minority on the island. It is those British people who are fearful and feel under siege as they always have done. Whitehall/London would be only too happy and ready to relieve itself of the tax burden that is NI. This visit by the Queen is merely symbolic, a bit like the eye candy the wallpaper mentioned already.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Sorry, but the above post was meant for you Alias!

  • Michael

    I agree but civil service jobs in the north are not the only ones at risk. I wish some would be sensible and realise there is a suitable time for everything and the time for a UI is NOT when benefits and jobs are being cut to the bone. I think if a UI were to happen anytime in the immediate future there would be huge resentment, on both sides of the border!

    It needs patience and time and the economic recovery to be felt in the pockets of people most affected, when the recovery is seen as settled and working, then the mood will change.

  • Turnpike

    Well done Cormac for puncturing the delusions of those that think that if they refer to where they live as ‘the North’ the border will simply cease to exist.

    You can call yourself Irish, Ghanian, Armenian or French as much as you like but, it doesn’t alter the fact you reside, (may have been born), pay taxes or collect benefits from a part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

  • Michael

    Yeah, absolutely, I often describe my own chosen industry as a tape worm in a sacred cow. I’m in IT, and until recently when I decided to switch to a company that mainly has utilities as clients, 95% of my work in the previous decade has been for local/central govt customers.
    Granted I’m not reliant on living in the same country as my ‘customers’ to the same extent as civil servants are, a UI would still have a very noticeable effect on the local IT industry, which has a very prominent emerging middle class catholic contingent.
    Tbh, I think unionists have missed their opportunity with alot of these yong catholic people that I speak of, they havent managed to turn them from non-voters into unionist voters as most still see the unionist politicians as a bunch of old bigots.

  • IMichael

    I totally agree, but surely the plan must be to persuade young unionists to vote nationalist?? I think its very possible, given economic recovery and time.

  • Mark

    enjoy your peddle

  • Mark

    You guys are quick , sorry it wont happen again

  • Mack

    Michael – a good portion of private sector industry in the north is dependent on the state. That’s less true in the south, where the economy is also much bigger. E.g. the IT industry is much bigger in the south, and the government is a much less important customer.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    I’ve had to be blunt, and hurtful, to get the point across. For that I am sorry, but I didn’t see how else I could illustrate the issue without causing offense to our fellow Irish in NI.

    Any discussion of a united Ireland must by its very nature take into account the wishes of the citizens of the Irish state, yet its something that I have only rarey heard expressed in all years of discussion on unity.

  • vanhelsing

    Hell they may want it in as a lovely U2, fluffy, one currency, lots of Guinness and no more border type thing….they may even say they want it to a researcher on St Stephen’s Green but….

    given the economic reality of it all [something the shinners don’t want to admit to] and the MASSIVE tax hike the good people of the Republic would have to swallow – not in my lifetime anyway…

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Well, Scamallach, you don’t have to read my posts.

    But if you do, and choose to reply, please at least engage in the points I make.
    Whatever your perception, they are meant seriously.

    I’ve made my points on the status of unification and nomanclature clearly, and given reasons why.
    It was gratifying to get some genuine feedback last night, and I welcome more of it, especially if it disagrees with me. But only if they are likewise thoughtful, not descending into mere derogatation.

    I’ve said from the start that I’m willing to be proved wrong. Engage, discuss, and you may change my mind. Wouldn’t that be something of note on Slugger !?!

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Mack – I’ve noticed your posts and you seem to be pretty thoughtful on what I’m discussing, even if you may not agree with them. Can I ask what’s your take on a UI?

  • vanhelsing

    According to Sinn Féin Dáil leader Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, TD.

    “Sinn Féin opposes the proposed state visit of the Queen of England, Commander-in-Chief of the British armed forces. Until there is:
    *complete withdrawal of the British military from Ireland
    *complete withdrawal of the British administration from Ireland,
    *justice and truth for victims of collusion
    *another Ireland winner of Eurovision weaing a tricolour dress
    *a language test [in Gaeltacht] for everyone in ‘the 6 counties] – members and voters of SF are exempt [in case of failure]
    *a British PM who will admit that they were wrong in EVERY decision ever made in Ireland
    *a decision not to have to sing ‘Irelands call’ at rugby matches just the NA
    * Rugby and Football be banned as British sports.
    *[and Cricket of course]
    *a Pope who will make all members of the SF saints [or maybe just blessed would be ok]
    *the Socialist Worker becomes the offical Irish Daily
    *a mock trial established to try all the SDLP collaborators over the years [see Gerry Fit model for details]
    * a process for the ‘re-education’ of Unionists on the Khmer Rouge model

    any chance you’d be happy then? 🙂

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit


    I think you have covered most requirements there but perhaps to show immediate good faith we will also require a comprehensive defeat of the Englezes to (our war allies) Germany.

  • Mack

    I’m in favour of a united Ireland, once a majority in the north want it (which I think is almost everyone on the island’s position). If I had a vote in the north I’d vote for it (which is not).

  • sam

    I for one will be supporting the football team of my fellow British citizens who live in England another part of our United Kingdom,

  • drumlins rock

    your going a bit far mate, sure wee Marty is a big Cricket fan, he wont allow that bit!

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit


    Most Nationalists will probably be cheering for the Germans will many Unionists be doing similarly do you think?

    What about Rangers supporters in Scotland I wonder?

  • sam

    Many Scottish, Welsh and English patriots are proud of their British heritage..One loyalty does not exclude the other. Only in Ireland has sectarianism and bigotry poisoned the relationship

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Thanks for the reply.

    Now, the gritty bit; WHY do you think it is a good idea? Think of me as your floating voter with an open mind (which I suppose I am in a way …).

  • Mack

    Like most people the reason why I favour it is at it’s core emotional. I’m Irish and incorporating our borderlands, ancestral Irish territory, into our state has an emotional appeal. For the Ulster British, the opposite view will hold a similar sway.

    The non-emotional arguments are more compelling for northerners (of all hues), than southerners. For us in the south, we’d get a larger internal market out such a move but potentially a million and one headaches in terms of security, and managing a dysfunctional polity. My guess the primary reason for southerners to vote for it is emotional.

    For northerners I think the (non-emotional) reasons are more compelling. The north has become dependent on state spending, and I can’t see it breaking out of that cycle in the UK. It could in a united Ireland. All citizens up there would benefit from closer inter-personal ties with the south and greater focus on events there rather than a focus on Britain. For example sending their kids to university in the south would mean northern grand parents would ultimately see more of their grand children. I think we can probably achieve more together locally in terms of sport, business, culture etc. than hands-across-the-water can hope to deliver (e.g. the Irish league and League of Ireland, languishing separately, despite a larger and more wealthy population on the island than Scotland – and despite the fact we are the real home of the rivalry that sustains Rangers and Celtic). But realisitcally, I think it will take a long period of peace, before those arguments will ever be listened too..

    I think a united Ireland is more likely to occur when hostility between Ireland and Britain fades. A visit by the head-of-state of the UK passing off without incident would probably be an important milestone on that journey. We’d have a hard enough job persuading the Ulster Protestant that it’s a good idea to peaceful accept Irish unity, never mind sell them the benefits is they percieve the Irish to be fundamentally anti-British.

  • Mack

    and the MASSIVE tax hike the good people of the Republic would have to swallow

    You do mean the MASSIVE cuts to NI public spending, don’t you?

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    I’m glad they are, as they are from the island of Britain.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Do you think that close cross-border services, rather than outright unity, would be a good way to deal with those issues, if only for the moment? Surely cooperation between neighbours can count for as much.

  • Erasmus

    ”Northern Ireland isn’t a part of Ireland. Its a part of the UK. Fact.”

    I make no apologies for pointing out for the gazziollonth time that the above worldview, articulated by Cormac McArt, represents that only of a small and diminishing minority here in the South. He may speak *as* a Southerner but he does not speak *for* Southerners.

  • Erasmus

    ”Not so. You know as well as I that if a referendum where held here tomorrow to incorporate NI into our country, we’d vote NO by a country mile.”

    There is an old saying:
    ‘The wish is the father of the thought’.
    Again I would point out – especially to Northern nationalists reading this thread – dont’t listen to him; he represents a tiny strand of Southern opinion which makes a lot of noise in proportion to its numbers and the validity of its agenda.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    The time of my thought is my own to spend.

    I don’t know who you think I represent, but I speck for myself.

    Until the reality of the situation of north and south is fully faced, there will never be any real progress for those of us who would support a united Ireland. Recognising that fact that Ireland is a country, and that NI is part of the UK, is part of that.

    Dismissing views such as mine is ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    For those of you coming late into this old argument, my points are as follows:

    1 – Ireland, or Eire, is the correct term for what is often called the Republic of Ireland (which is a description, not an offical name).

    2 – Northern Ireland is not part of Ireland (see above); it is part of another country, the United Kingdom.

    3 – Any referendum held in Ireland any time soon would not result in unification of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

    4 – I don’t personally support unification, but I AM open to persuasion.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Now, Erasmus, can you tell me why this matter so much to you?