Fancy a conspiracy theory? Take your pick

A car appears on the Shankill Road and leaflets are thrown from it naming many dissenting republicans, it happens at the junction of Lanark Way leading into Republican West Belfast.

These leaflets are subsequently posted on lampposts and walls across loyalist areas. They give names of numerous people described as dissident republicans, CIRA, RIRA, criminals etc.

Some suggest the names may have been gathered by a ‘republican’ group and delivered direct to loyalists in the crudist of fashions.

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  • johno

    So what if they did, Mark, you irrelevant bore.

    At any rate, what’s the average loyalist going to do with the info – go into the Falls and take the dissidents on?

    Nah, easier to beat little schoolgirls with bricks and bite them and jump on their wrists when they’re lying unconscious, eh?

    Have you started a thread on that yet, Mark?

    Has anyone here?

    What about you, Mick? Nowt to say on it?

    Thought not.

  • Mark McGregor

    johno,

    Others can cover sectariana if they want. I do politics.

    ‘Someone’ setting up a few dozen people for death is worth a passing nod imho.

  • Alias

    It’s a bit cynical even for a Shinner to be hopping around the forum using an attack on a child to insist that everybody should be discussing that and nobody should be discussing subjects that you and the party you support don’t want to be discussed.

  • Alias

    Who put the leafets up on the “lampposts and walls across loyalist areas”? Presumably the loyalists did, so whoever delivered them knew there would be some interest in them in those areas. I don’t see the purpose in it.

  • TheHorse

    This is politics Mark, a young catholic schoolgirl is brutalised and no one on slugger has anything to say about it, Im sure if it was connected to republicans there would be ten different threads going at the one time about it. By the way that “someone” could be the same people who have been giving loyalists suspected republicans details for years.

  • Michael

    What would SF or the Provos gain from loyalists killing dissident republicans?

  • Alias

    Less dissidents.

  • Michael

    And more support for the dissidents leading to more dissidents.

    Nothing like a good old taig killing to bring to a close UVF infighting and to bolster support for dissident republicans.

    There’s no ‘angle’ here I can see.

  • Alias

    MI5 doesn’t think so, since it set Kieran Doherty up to be killed. Who was complaining about collusion there? You could just as easily claim that it would have undermined support for British national security interests but it didn’t because British interests and the catholics interests are now interchangable. No one will care if loyalists whack a few dissidents.

  • Michael

    Well, one scenario relies on people believing/caring that MI5 had him killed him as opposed to his erstwhile comrades.

    The other would be UVF men killing republicans from west Belfast. Of course it would provoke a reaction, because the fear would be the next step is the UVF back to targetting random catholics.

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    I agree….there is of course “high politics” as discussed in Academia and worthy Blogging sites like Slugger…but the real nitty gritty is the sectarian nastiness suffered by the young Catholic girl in Moyard.
    Or for the sake of balance the horrific injuries suffered by a young Protestant lad opposite Tescos in Lurgan a couple of months back.
    But lets face it these kids are working class and the Overclass wont get worked up about them.

  • Cynic

    I agree. Any sectarian attack is terrible, especially when it’s a child.

    But can you tell me what a 13 year old was doing sitting out with her mates at well after midnight and on an interface area? Do her parents allow this? Is it sensible?

    None of that is her fault nor does it in any way excuse the attack on her but it does make me ask questions .

    Now maybe our ‘leaders’ on the Hill would like to do something about sectarianism. Those peace lines in West Belfast don’t just allow bricks over in one direction

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mark,

    “Some suggest the names may have been gathered by a ‘republican’ group and delivered direct to loyalists in the crudist of fashions.”

    Excellent example of objective reporting based on a thorough establishment of the facts.

  • Cynic

    You know its truly amazing around here. If the Brits weren’t murdering people directly they we are told that they were setting them up. Makes me wonder if any of our upright citizens was ever really involved at all. Perhaps we were all just puppets of nefarious Albion

  • joeCanuck

    Get a grip folks. The attack on the young girl is disgusting. But this thread isn’t about that.
    The posting of these names, no matter who did it, is disgusting too. An invite to murder. Remember Ian Paisley naming the catholics and their addresses of people who had the nerve to live in and around the Shankill before he scurried off home and mayhem broke loose?

  • Alias

    Perhaps, but the evidence supports the view that ‘dissidents’ (i.e. those who reject the legitimacy of British rule) are now regarded as second-class citizens by the catholic community in that part of the UK, with that community now of the view that sectarian murder gangs are counterproductive to their interests within the British state, having outlived their usefulness. Hence the catholic community is now disinterested in reports of police harrassment, brutality, collusion, political policing, prison conditions, prosecutions for ‘historical’ crimes, etc, when those reports involve said second-class citizens. The policy of demonisation of particular groups is used by the state to secure the acquiescence of its citizens in campaigns that involve abuse of rights, so in that regard they are being conditioned to ‘turn a blind eye’ to the security policy. Not that they require such conditioning since they now have a vested interest in defending the British state from those who seek to undermine it, being reconciled to living as a non-sovereign nation within it.

    There won’t be any ‘reaction’ from the catholic community if the loyalists killed a view dissidents other than token political tut-tutting. However, the loyalists are earning large amounts of money from the state in the guise of conflict transformation initiatives and by the state agreeing to turn a blind eye to their drug-dealing, prostitution rings, and protection rackets as long as they act as ‘policemen’ within their own community, keeping the bad boys in line, so they will not put such activity before profit. The British state doesn’t mind if they kill other protestants but would get awfully upset if they killed a catholic. Only catholic murder gangs are allowed to kill catholic civilians, and vice versa. In that regard the British state is a tad more civilised than the catholic community who wouldn’t mind at all if they killed a few dissidents from ther community, token political protest notwithstanding.

  • Alias

    The above reply covers this.

  • Alias

    “Of course it would provoke a reaction, because the fear would be the next step is the UVF back to targetting random catholics.”

    This makes my point. The concern of the catholic community is not for its second-class members who might be killed by loyalists but for what the implications might be for the rest of catholic community.

  • “The posting of these names, no matter who did it, is disgusting too.” ….. joeCanuck says: 22 June 2010 at 1:02 am

    Should violent cowardly dissident names not be widely known to all commmunities, joeCanuck? To have them remain secret and unknown allows them to fester and flourish in ignorant isolation and arrogant delusion.

  • aquifer

    ‘MI5 doesn’t think so, since it set Kieran Doherty up to be killed.’ MI5 did not kill Kieran Doherty, at least one armed irish separatist did.

    Is outing members of a murder conspiracy worse than allowing the right to life of all citizens to be infringed?

    We would have to have the souls of slaves not to resent these armed cultural and religious entrepreneurs telling us how to live.

    If loyalists prefer rackets to revenge where is the harm?

  • jim

    that must be the time they made a MISTAKE and the wee prodestant woman was burned to death

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Joe,

    got a link?

  • Rory Carr

    Probably the work of a disgruntled dissident who has fallen foul of his former comrades. A dissident dissident if you like.

  • Scáth Shéamais

    The list was also dumped from a car in a republican area of West Belfast, the same list naming dozens of people as ‘drug dealers’ and ‘touts’. A number of loyalists have taken to distributing the details on the net, but what needs to be mentioned is that there are a lot of names on that list of people who are not involved in ‘dissident’ organisations or in crime. There are people on the list whose only ‘crime’ was that they dared to be critical of Belfast’s dominant nationalist party.

  • redhugh78

    Back to Porridge again Mark eh?
    Should have, would have, could have.
    Probably yourself that done it Mark.

  • hoboroad

    Mark

    Why are you not on here every Sunday complaining whenever the Sunday World or Sunday Life newspapers prints the names of those it say are members of the RIRA or CIRA?

  • hodgie

    some of the people named on the list have no connection with politics or organisations of any sort.

  • Greenflag

    Dissidents dissing on other dissidents ?

    Or as Groucho Marx would have put it -The dissident of the first part does not agree with the dissident of the second part while the dissidents of the turd and forth parts complain that all dissidents are deserving of parity of dissent even unto disgruntled dissenters . Meanwhile those who look forward to a future UI of Catholic , Protestant and Dissenters are having more than second thoughts on the inclusion of Dissenters in said dream /nightmare .

    I would like to record my dissent from the standard conventional dissenting wisdom on this matter;(

    Shitehawks one and all

  • Brian

    Doherty died on hunger strike? What are you all talking about?

  • Danny Gillen

    The list was posted on politics.ie before being thrown into the streets as far as I’m aware

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    Isnt there a certain irony that MMG gets outraged about this and posts you tube clips of white line protestors on the Falls Road.

  • Scáth Shéamais

    It was on the streets first.

  • Ní Dhuibhir

    The extraordinarily narrow view of what ‘politics’ is that prevails in Northern Ireland and on Slugger is a big problem for both.