Those thirty six extra votes in Fermanagh and South Tyrone…

Hmmm… the News Letter has the detail on a story that’s been bubbling under for a few days now… It’s those extra votes in Fermanagh and South Tyrone… Douglas Bain the Chief Electoral Officer says there is nothing wrong, but the paper has some interesting detail from the Verification Statement for Fermanagh/South Tyrone, which was issued in the early hours of May 7 records there were 36 extra votes found in ballot boxes:

…the document says that 36 extra ballot papers were found. In one instance – box 59 [Holy Trinity Primary School Primary School, Cornagrade according to the EONI documentation]– 384 ballot papers were issued while 392 were found in the box. In another example – box 40 [Slugger makes that Letterbreen Methodist Hall, Letterbreen] – 551 ballots were issued while 556 were found when the box was opened.

Just be careful about what conclusions you come to from this… it is possible that this will be subject to legal action… And I don’t want Slugger being part of it…

  • sdelaneys

    People sometimes put sample ballot papers, the kind handed out outside by the parties, in the ballot boxes but I assume they’d be weeded out immediately so are we to assume that the ‘extra’ papers were of a quality to defeat initial scrutiny? Will it be possible to isolate these 36 votes and see who benefited from them? Surely if they are copies of some kind they will not tally with stub records or there will be two ballots issued for 36 numbers. Very interesting, where’s Ms Marples?

  • joeCanuck

    I can’t see anything coming out of this with respect to the election result. For example, if copies were made, how would you determine which of two ballots was the properly used one?
    Nevertheless, if true, it’s an assault on democracy and should be investigated to see if the perpetrators or co-conspirators within the electoral office can be identified.

  • Munsterview

    As somebody who have been involved in tallies over the years, I can say that given the way each and every questioned ballot paper is scrutinized by the election count officials and party count experts, it is absolutely impossible for anything other than a genuine ballot paper to get through the various inspections.

    As to the possibility of extra ballot papers, they would have to be perfect in every detail to emulate the real thing so much so that they were identical. There is strict security at every step of the way in the South from print to distribution to collection, storage and counting, to ensure that the papers are not interfered with in any way. I assume the same is the case in the North?

    Interesting, very interesting indeed!

  • Mick Fealty

    Indeed, all good questions. Mr Bain’s six page letter would make for interesting reading too. Surely that can be FOIed?

    But Tom Elliot’s reluctance to appeal seems the best indication of its likely success…

  • I’ve spoken to the presiding officer for FST. Some polling stations have boxes sitting side by side. Situations arise where the ballot in placed in the wrong box, i.e. one box shows +5, but the other shows -5.

    I would be fairly confident, where there are these ‘extra’ votes in certain boxes, they make up for a deficit in others.

    This figure of 36 came from the unionist tally count. If you want to scrutinize somewhere…

  • Are the conduct of elections independently audited during/after the event by a third party in any EU state?

    Not an original thought, I know, but is there any danger of democracy trying to catch up with technology one of these years or is the country just too skint to even dream about that now ?

  • EVERY paper was also closely scrutinized to ensure they weren’t copies.

  • Munsterview

    Aldous Duke

    Makes sense if the boxes are side by side as described.

  • Oracle

    The total issue and the total votes were different by 36 so the boxes side by side makes no difference at all in this case.

    However if one wanted to act the wag one would simply go to vote fold the ballot up and put it in your pocket or hanbag, put a nonsense piece of paper in the ballot box as not to arouse suspicion and leave the polling station with a genuine ballot.

    Once outside if you had the equipment printers copiers forgers ect ready to go you could run off a few dozen very easily and slip them back in with your supporters one at a time as they went to cast their own genuine vote.

    Now for this to be in place a party would need to know that they needed every single vote and they’d need manpower money and almost military planning….

    So it wasn’t the SDLP okay guys

  • sdelaneys

    This is a possibility if the 36 come only from Unionist tallies but surely the crucial figure would be the sum declared by each presiding officer which, when added up, should equal the number of ballots in the bxes in total allowing for the fact that someone may have waklked out with one or two. A few less is understandable but if the 36 figure is over the total of the votes declared in the polling stations there is s problem.

  • Oh let the unionists get over themselves, they stayed home more than the others, they got less votes than the others, thats how it works.

    The only shame is: A shinner won the seat! How sad is that, but at least they are, if not republicans, and when not self serving, nationalists.

    As far as I am concerned: You take em where you find em.

  • Cynic

    The News Letter Says

    ” However, a copy of the Verification Statement for Fermanagh/South Tyrone, issued in the early hours of May 7 and seen by the News Letter, records there were 36 extra votes found in ballot boxes.

    The document, which is signed and then counter-signed by the deputy returning officer, lists the ballot papers issued at polling stations for all 96 ballot boxes in the constituency and the votes subsequently found in each box when it was opened at the count centre.”

    So lets see that document. If it shows extra ballot papers there’s a problem. They should also be easy to spot as they must be forgeries or unissued ballot numbers.

    Of course, we don’t know yet who put them there. it’s Fermanagh. Both sides are capable of it

  • Cynic

    Mick

    The document you have linked to doesn’t seem to show what you say

  • Rabbit

    Fermanagh is an exception to every rule.

  • Rabbit

    The area is Cornagade. On that basis, I could take a stab in the dark at which side did it!!

  • RepublicanStones

    Didn’t the Two Ronnies do a sketch about ‘The Phantom ballot box stuffer of old Dungannon Town’?

  • It would be very easy to identify the suspect ballots, they will have incorrect serial numbers on the back of them.

    Each and every ballot paper has a unique serial number, it would be impossible to know in advance the serial numbers in use in any particular pollling station.

    In cases of multi box stations, it is normal practice for each ballot box to be a room of its own. When this is not possible and any error occurs, the total votes cast (from the marked copy of the register) in the polling station are added together and should equal the combined number of ballot papers in both / all boxes.

  • redhugh78

    woud need to see other constituencies verification statements as I suspect FST would not be unique in this anomolie.

  • Drumlin Rock

    Are postal Ballots identical to those issued on the day? if they are then surely with modern technology it would not be that difficult to copy them convincingly and someone slip them into the boxes while casting their genuine vote. However I presume that every ballot has a unique number and the duds or doubles could be detected by a very careful examination. The question is were there 36 extra papers counted than were issued or not?

  • Mick Fealty

    What did I get wrong?

  • Drumlin Rock

    so the question is will the marked register show 384 or 392 marked off for Cornagrade.

  • medillen

    Boys boys boys and girls, all of these techniques were forensically examined years ago when there was much more dispute over potential electoral fraud. It is time to let go, believe me it helps in the long run.

  • jim

    speaking of duds n unique numbers.the super dollar springs to mind it fooled a lot of people

  • Drumlin Rock

    For the election geeks amongst us this Commons report into election fraud covers alot of the issues raised, if there are discrepancies found. Interestingly it confirms that your vote can be traced back to you, but this facilty has not been used since 1911, if there was a successful challenge it would give F&ST yet more records for the Guinness book.
    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199798/cmselect/cmhaff/768/76807.htm

  • joeCanuck

    I’ve always suspected that. Canada ballots have a unique serial number and they write your name beside it when you get your ballot.

  • Drumlin Rock

    they probably use the same system, although according to the Commons report it hasnt been used in a hundred years, if it dosnt come into play this time it eventually be dropped.

  • Munsterview

    Yes, on the face of it that could be done. However other problems arise if perusing this course of action, the paper weight and grade would need to be identically matched, so would the typefaces line widths etc. Even more important the exact D.P.I. needs to be known.

    I would be very surprised indeed if any number of security measures involving, paper, grade, weave, ink etc are not build into the system but not disclosed to the general public.

    I do not know enough about the nuts and bolts of the current system in the North to give an informed comment. I have however even seen a ballot paper smeared with excrement on three separate occasions.!

    I have also seen blood smears and even dead worms accompanied with choice language on the ballot papers. When it comes to making a point never under estimate the skills of a disgruntled voter determined to get their point across.

  • Munsterview

    Did that too in the South. Practice found to be unconstitutional as it enabled identification of how a person voted.

  • Cynic

    Maybe Im misreading it but I don’t see it showing the vote / ballotimbalance?

  • Cynic

    i understand that after the tallys are complete the logs of who got what ballot are destroyed

  • joan

    what an extraordinary attitude! ‘i don’t want slugger being part of it’ writes fealty. translation: don’t anyone dig into this scandal even though it means the theft of a parliamentary seat and the subversion of democracy. the reason? digging into this story might upset one the parties to the peace process and preservation of this faustian deal, and the leadership which negotiated it, comes ahead of all other considerations. we all know what happened and who fiddled the vote. they are the most practised at this sort of thing. they’ve been doing it for more than thirty years.

  • John Joe

    Occam’s razor should be used here other than the default NI position of smothering issues in Occam’s conspiracy theory shaving foam.
    For instance, why doesn’t the Newsletter speculate about the following?:
    (a) If that is an early morning tally – given that FST progressed until the next afternoon – the variability in the score of the various counts could well be down to removal of sample ballot papers etc if they were included.
    (b) Human error – imagine!!!! What if one or two people did their sums wrong adding up the totals? Hence a figure of 36 appears for a while. Again, after four counts and endless scrutiny, you can hardly suggest a swift sleight of hand.
    (c) Cui bono? Why accuse Bain of a cover up – why should he remotely care about the result, he’s just doing his job? Why search for a balaclava-ed figure behind every story?

    I think the barometer here is Tom Elliot. If there were serious grounds for appeal it would be in already. Ok, some sort of backlash for such a close defeat was inevitable, but unionists do not have an electoral majority in FST, and given the optics of running a unity candidate etc and the message it sent to nationalists, the general tenor of the post-election whine sends out very clear signals about the underlying contradictions in powersharing in the North.

  • smellybigoxteronye

    note how NI is singled out in that link.

  • smellybigoxteronye

    As Gordo would say “get real” John Joe. The dogs on the street even know that more than 4 of those ballots are bound to be fraudulent, and who they were for. Read the uk government link posted by Drumlin Rock above – NI is singled out as having problems with electoral fraud, and we all know who the culprits are.

  • medillen

    This pathetic muck spreading exercise will not detract Oracle from the SDLP’s pathetic decision to keep Fergal McKinney in the race even though he was going to get creamed. The SDLP are now finished in this constituency.

  • Unlucky Erb

    Ohh its a gift that keeps on giving!

    First we had Arlene Foster etc in the studio crowing about how the FST result was sent from Heaven to warm unionist hearts.

    Then we had the joy of the actual republican electoral victory.

    And now we get the conspiract theorists desperately scrambling to explain away yet another Shinner success with innuendo and a bit of wink wink nudge nudge. I’ve never read the Newsletter more.

    Keep em coming

  • medillen

    Here we go again, the dogs in the street are out again, no smoke without fire blaa blaa blaa. Put up or shut up.

  • John Joe

    Seriously? The last politician convicted of electoral fraud was from the DUP. Drumlin Rock’s link is to the report of a select committee which makes an anecdotal statement about NI but does not back it up with evidence. How many people have been convicted of electoral fraud in the last ten years? Who were they trying to benefit? Where is the serious research on this subject or am I alone in thinking that no-one wants to do it because it will not produce the result that they want.
    This is anecodtal (since I’m not going to name the persons involved) – a couple of friends who were temping as auxiliary nurses in the 1990s worked for a short time in two nursing homes during an election. They were both (independently) given all of the postal votes for the residents and told to mark the votes for a particular party and post them (they both refused). You might be shocked to hear that neither of the two parties in question (one from each side of the house, so to speak) were Sinn Fein yet members of both parties accused SF of electoral fraud after the election.
    Those famous dogs in the street know that if someone from SF was invovled in dodgy electoral practice they would be hauled before the courts and gleefully found guilty. That it isn’t happening with the frequency that said dogs believe would suggest that their opinion is perhaps being guided by things other than standards of evidence!!!

  • RepublicanStones

    Surely if you are serious about vote rigging you’d need to be talking in terms of 100’s if not 1000’s. The idea of trying to swing it with 4 or 30 odd is a wood under your nails accusation. Furthermore count officers coming in with pockets bulging would look a bit odd. Look at Hamid Karzai and his hillside ballot box parties – thats how you rig it !

  • Munsterview

    I am not impartial on this, I am delighted that Sinn Fein won the seat. Neither did I accept that Sinn Fein’s position of attempting to maximize the Nationalist vote there and elsewhere was in any way sectarian, it is but a recognition of the reality of the underlying politics in the Six Counties.

    Sinn Fein’s position on the National question meant that votes were pro or anti Union with Britain; since that too should be the S.D.L.P stand, the position they took was not principled, it was tactical and opportunistic based on the fact that some pro union voters would vote for them as the would indeed have done if the devil himself was standing as long as they thought they were shafting Republicans in so doing.

    The tactic backfired for the S.D.L.P, while they undoubtedly did gain Unionist votes on that basis, they also lost even more Nationalist votes and failed to make up the numbers. That was a judgement call on a calculated risk and they got it wrong!

    Mistakes do happen in counts, once after a long count I see 230 votes go into a wrong pile and they were not properly counted. Since it made no difference to who was elected and only lowered the overall Fine Gale vote, I held strum.

    In this instance despite S.F. winning the seat, if there is electoral fraud I am all in favor of having it exposed, that is a two edged sword and it should be eliminated as far as possible from the body politic. Leave the cards fall where they will on it.

  • Comrade Stalin

    There’s a unique serial on the back of each one.

    Fake ballot papers are unlikely to have the serial, or the correct serial.

    Until recently the clerks at the polling station used to stamp your ballot paper with a perforation.

  • Comrade Stalin

    This figure of 36 came from the unionist tally count.

    What’s a “unionist tally count” ?

    If you mean the tallies done by parties, then sorry, but not even the unionists are stupid enough to try to count every single ballot as it goes past, and if they were they still wouldn’t have the manpower to do it.

  • Cynic

    Joan

    Calm down dear. This one has the capacity to lose th run of itself on Slugger with certain i9ndividuals maki9ng all sorts of libellous allegations. Mick’s right to urge caution.

    So far we dont know

    1 was the ballot stuffed
    2 if it was who did it
    3 if it was why is the Electoral Commission not taking any action itself as a crime has been committed

  • joan

    1 was the ballot stuffed – yes
    2 if it was who did ii – qui bono? the shinners of course
    3 if it was why is the Electoral Commission not taking any action itself as a crime has been committed – because like the person who runs this site and most of the media, the commission is terrified of confronting grizzly for fear they’d be accused of damaging the precious process

  • John Joe

    The answer to “Qui Bono?” is actually Paul Hewson.

    Perhaps you should ask the people of FST why they didn’t elect a unionist candidate then go look at the numbers in previous elections. There hasn’t been a unionist majority since about 1997. Perhaps it isn’t the commission that is terrified of confronting grizzly.

  • joan

    typical shinner response. when you can’t answer the question, then change the question. the election was stolen by sinn fein and everyone knows that. brendan hughes has revealed how deep in the sf dna vote-stealing is and this result is proof that old habits will never die. they got to where they are now by stealing and they’ll continue to do it until someone stands up to them.

  • bigchiefally

    Just got a couple of questions that I genuinely would like to know peoples opinions on.

    Do users of this site think that there was zero illegal voting done in FST?

    Do users of the site think that SF did more of it than the Unionists side?

    Personally I think there has to have been some illegal voting on both sides in this election, but purely based on their reputation for “vote early, vote often” and their militaristic past I would be be surprised if SF didnt slip more dodgy votes in that the unionists managed.

  • John Joe

    Joan – you don’t even ask any questions. You simply present your own opinions with no regard for the logic underlying them.
    The last person convicted of electoral fraud was from the DUP – when was the last conviction of someone for electoral fraud on behalf of SF?
    Indeed, where was the electoral commissions intervention into the FST count?
    Do you really think there is some sort of sinister hand controlling all this behind the scenes?
    The bottom line is still this – the most recent evidence of electoral fraud as recognised by a successful prosecution in the courts was of a DUP member – not SF. If there was a dossier on SF electoral fraud that documented successful prosecutions, the nature of the practice as evidenced in the court cases etc, it would be waved around before, during and after every election. If unionist had evidence of this, they would use it.
    Look, unionist don’t lose seats to electoral fraud – they lose them because the electorate did not wish to return that particular candidate. You can imagine up as many horrific phantoms that are secretly controlling all of this as some sort of mirror image of past electoral abuses like gerrymandering etc, but they aren’t there any more. But if you really do believe old habits diehard, I presume that is why you are so upset a pro-union minority not representing a nationalist seat. In the old days that wouldn’t have been allowed to happen, would it?
    Ah, the good old days.

  • drumlins rock

    cynic, micks link was just to show which location the box numbers correspond to.

  • drumlins rock

    ally, to be honest I would think that the number of genuine voters disenfranchised by the attempts to eliminate vote rigging would far outweigh the number of dodgey votes cast, although there maybe there are those who know otherwise. Any oportunities mainly exist with postals, but I guess where there is a will there is always a way.

  • fin

    It would be easy for MI5 agents to have access to ballot papers, as they control SF its essential for them to have as much political representation from SF as possible therefore its obvious that MI5 added the additional ballots in SFs favour.

    It really is simple, F/ST was the vote SF could lose so they may well have had agents everywhere, its possible that they actually added 1,000’s of ballots on SFs behave and planted a story bout a small number of ballots as a diversion.

    It is also a diversion from SFs good showing in North Belfast where more than likely they also stuffed 1,000’s of ballots for SF into the boxes to pave the way to get SF elected there next time around.

  • JoeJoe

    1.Is Munsterview really living in Munster/from Munster. I never came upon anyone in the South who is generally a ‘good speller’ who spells Fine Gael, Fine Gale.

    2. The nationalist fote (SF+SDLP) in FST went up 0.1% in the 2010 election when compared with the previous westminster one. Why are the unionists comentators saying the seat was lost because their vote didn’t come out. Has anyone turnout results for say Ballinamallard (U) versus Ros(s)lea (Nat)?

  • dmcoop

    That’s it Fin, you’ve solved the mystery. If only everyone had your insight.

  • DJ Horatio

    That rings a bell. I’ve been googling it but can’t seem to find anything…

  • Neil

    There’s a good chance question one is answered by the third word of question two…

  • i notice you didn’t address darkie hughes’ allegations but i guess you just couldn’t go there, could you ‘john joe’, whoever that is – you are also wrong, there is a dossier on sf personation and it was first compiled by the chief electoral officer, pat bradley back in 1981 when owen carron stole the seat won by bobby sands – bradley said he was appalled at the extent of sf vote-stealing and his comments have been added to in every subsequent election and made public by the n.i. affairs committee at westminster at regular intervals;
    and yes you did change the question when you couldn’t answer it. the question or questions were listed, starting with, ‘was the ballot stuffed’ and we all know the answer: yes and stuffed by the shinners.

  • The first case brought to the European Court of Human Rights was against Ireland for having codes on ballot papers which could be used to identify voters. It’s in breach of the European Convention.

  • drumlins rock

    joejoe, both turnouts are well down, F&ST managed 79% in 2001, down to 69% this time, and therefore the result is closely tied to the demographic breakdown as usual. The interesting question is WHY is in down in both communities?

  • Rory Carr

    As all acountants knew back in the days before they all took to calculators and lost the ability to calculate without their aid, whenever a difference arises in any set of calculations where two counts should tally then the first exercise in discovering the error is this:

    Check if the difference is divisible by 9. If it is then chances are that the difference has been created by a juxtaposition of figures e.g. 23 on on side has been written in error as 32 on the other (difference = 9) or 29 as 92 (difference = 63) – in each case the difference is divisible by 9. A simple juxtaposition of 51 wriiten instead of (or mistaken or miscounted for) the correct figure, 15 would result in a difference of 36 as in this case.

    I don’t know if this advice will be of any assistance in solving the puzzle but I offer it free of my usual fee as a magnanimous gesture in aid of bourgeois democracy.

  • redhugh78

    You have to laugh at this, there’s a discrepency of 36 votes and the conspiracy theorists have it that it was SF fraudulant votes
    There’s a very poigniant saying where I come from, ‘Take your oil! ‘.

  • John Joe

    I haven’t read Hughes book yet so I can’t answer any issues raised by it. Since he is dead, though, he can’t exactly verify that what was published carries the sense of what he had meant either, so its a bit of a zero sum.

    I already answered the other questions citing Occam’s Razor in each case. Since I didn’t give the answers you wanted to hear you’re ignoring them.

    Was the ballot stuffed? No. The electoral commission would have seen that the election was properly carried out. If it wasn’t, the result would have been appealed or the electoral commission would have investigated. I imagine there were occasionally PSNI personnel around to assist them as well and no droogs wearing balaclava’s were reported from any polling stations.

    The second question is then irrelevant. But you would have to be prescient to know who would want to stuff a ballot box with as little as 36 votes in such a tight race. As I pointed out, the most recent electoral abuse was by the DUP (as verified by a court, not by personal opinion or inclination), so the default position that it would have to be SF isn’t supported by the evidence. And I hate to tell you but 1981 was nearly 30 years ago. The only documented case in the most recent review by a parliamentary committee of electoral abuse (2000-2010) is the DUP one. So whatever Pat Bradley put in a file in 1981 is hardly current now. How many prosecution arose from this file, anyway? I doubt there were many since it was a dossier of allegations made by people rather than a file detailing successful prosecutions. Recent Electoral Office stats don’t suggest that any form of electoral fraud is taking place in NI on a level that is any different to elsewhere in the UK. Actually, its probably much less – and I’d imagine there is a much higher frequency of allegations made here (that turn out to have no basis).

    So, then, why did the electoral commission not investigate? Easy. Because there was NOTHING to investigate!!!!! That would seem to be the obvious answer. Certainly more plausible than spooks and shadows moving around in the background.

    And by the way, John Joe is actually my name and despite what you are assuming, I’m not a member of SF. I think of myself more as a Chomskyite anarchist with a Belfast accent.

    Look, Joan, you’re just going to have get over it. Connor didn’t win, the cards weren’t marked, no-one used a loaded dice etc, etc, etc.

  • medillen

    Mick you will not have to worry about any allegations appearing on this thread that might land you in court, unless the dogs in the street are allowed to testify.

  • Munsterview

    JoeJoe

    While a historian and have some degree of skills in wielding a pen I will also cheerfully admit to having some dyslexia ( which I have had to just look up to spell) I cannot spell for nuts, never could and at my age never will.

    All my ‘good speller’ skills comes via the spell checker, Fianna Failure is deliberate ( annoys the bejasus out of them, yet they will not respond as they do not want it to catch on) Fine Gael / Gale is one of these little things that the checker do not pick up on and I usually miss it.

    This is why I have been pleading with Mick to bring back the ‘preview’ option if possible’

    As to Munster, yes, for the record that is correct, but I would opt for Ulster second, that is for the Old true Ulster, not the six counties of Irish National territory still under British control under the current temporary little arrangement while we are waiting for the penny to drop with certain people.

  • Rory Carr

    I think I have solved the problem with the lack of a “preview” option on this new, super -sexy site of which Munsterview complained above.

    My solution is simple – I just re-read my comments before posting and amend or delete any typos,syntactical errors, misspellings or (sometimes), too obvious fits of pique.

    I am more than willing to market this amazing new technological advance to any Slugger reader at a special reduced rate.

    Isn’t that nice of me?

  • John Joe

    Eh, Rory, is that example of your work meant to be an advert? If it is, well…

  • Jean Meslier

    Result of Fermanagh / Sth Tyrone Westminister Election 2010

    Sinn Fein : 1 (one)

    Unionist/DUP/Tory/OrangeOrder : 0 (nil)

    New way forward,
    bright future, representation, candidate: extinction

  • Battle of the Bogside

    Joan

    Allegations are allegations until they are backed up by evidence. You say SF stole votes, that is your opinion. I say the sectarian alliance stole votes, that is my opinion. Until either of us have evidence to back our claims, they are simply opinion. The fact that is indisputable, is that the last party member to be convicted of electoral fraud was a DUP member. Let’s stick to the facts!

  • Drumlin Rock

    IRA/SF/Peado Club/ pan nationalist front : 1
    Connor/Proper representation : 0

    Biggest losers, everyone.

  • Battle of the Bogside

    You claim MI5 control Sinn Fein. Did they also control the PIRA? If so, did they carry out the Eniskillen bomb. Maybe the Manchester bomb?Or how about the Narrow Waters incident? Did they kill Mountbatton? How about Nirac?

    Please inform?

  • Battle of the Bogside

    I use Firefox and have attached a spell check. It wors a treat for spelling mistakes!

  • medillen

    I repeat Drumlin Rock, go and lie down in a darkened room, it will be alright you will come round. Just place a damp face cloth on your forehead and repeat after me… it will be ok…. it will be ok…

  • Battle of the Bogside

    That’s a very racist comment. If a nationalist/republican posted something similar, they would be barred with no explanation. What about Mark Harbinson? Is he still arranging bigoted sectarian orange parades from his peado prison cell??? The OO have a strong connection to the touching of little boys and girls does it not???

  • why

  • whats the last date that the loser can take legal action, is his time now up.

  • Drumlin Rock

    ack its good to stirr a bit, if you post a silly gloat expect a comeback,

  • Drumlin Rock

    think its 25 days in that commons report, but not quite sure of it.

  • Drumlin Rock

    but I think any action is very unlikely unless something substancial comes out in next few days, so most of this thread was wild speculation about nothing, but it was fun lol.

  • According to the Newsletter, an appeal must be lodged within 21 days – I don’t know if that is from the declaration or the close of the polls. Presumably the former, so it would be 28th before that window expires.

  • Johno

    So let me get this straight…the so-called radical blogosphere has to rely on the print media for its news then bottles it and asks everyone not to discuss it?

    lol

    yeah, cutting edge stuff here.

  • Johno

    Exactly, Erb. The stench of desperation from this farce of a website is becoming overpowering.

    The sad geek here spewed anti-sf bile for months. The saddest part is they actually believed the line that the blogosphere was somehow ‘moulding public opinion’. Er, no. It’s the refuge of irrelevant geeks – as the election results duly showed.

    Keep her lit, Michelle.

  • JoeJoe

    Drumlin’s Rock. re Did unionists stay at home argument:
    Thanks, but we know that the turnout was way down, I thought that unionists were blaming the turnout from that side of the great divide. That certainly has come out in mainstream media. One blogger mentioned Ballinamallard unionists didn’t come out, ‘the garden centre prod’ etc. I would be interested to know if anyone has any evidence that this is true, maybe evidence of turnout (boxes) in a unionist area versus a nationalist area.

  • sam

    Brendan Hughes explained how Sinn Fein won their westminster seats. Why do people act so surprised now? Its rigged.

  • Ash Cloud

    That seems to be a rather disturbing habit of yours DR – running off at the mouth with a sectarian racist rant and then passing it off as a joke – when you are called to order. I think the Rodney Connor’s project was something similar, blatant orange bigotry parcelled up as “a man to represent all the people.” Only a large number of F/ST unionists and all nationalists didn’t buy it.

  • Ash Cloud

    They won’t take a legal challenge because they have no case and they will lose.
    Its of much more benefit to unionists in Fermanagh through slur, innuendo and half truth to say that they were cheated, or the result was fixed.
    Bring on the court challenge I say.

  • Neil

    ack its good to stirr a bit, if you post a silly gloat expect a comeback

    That’s funny DR, I suppose no one should point out how wrong you were prior to the election, as that would be gloating and simply not cricket. Remember all that stuff you posted about the UCUNF? Backed the wrong horse there big fella.

    Credit where it’s due, at least he waited til he’d won to gloat. You got your gloating in prior to the election. All that excitement expressed as the UCUNF were going to drag politics kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

    How wee undead Reggie was going to have a hotline to the PMs office, due to the fact that they were part of the Tory party. Pity about the whole not winning any seats thing though. It would be a bit undemocratic to give the UUs the time of day now, wouldn’t want to see undue influence being exerted, considering the electorate reject your party to the point of zero seats.

    What about Rodney Connor. What was it about being over the moon because you’d now have Unionist representation at Westminster? Again, gloating prior to the fact is a bad idea. Gloating after you’ve won is much better form.

  • drumlins rock

    we wont find out till the marked registers come out, the partys dont bother keeping thier own anymore. I know on the doorstep the problem was the Candidate was not know and had no party tag, so there was some confusion, also you will always loose a few votes at either extreme when you have a unity candidate.

  • drumlins rock

    Dont remember gloating, can you give me a few quotes of when I did?
    I chose my horse and stuck to it, didnt come in this time but despite some rumours dont think its ready for the knackers yet, change of jockey and better training should help it for next year.
    As for Rodney, always said it would be close, and couldnt have been much closer, was certainly worth a try.

  • Munsterview

    Battle of the Bogside 20 May 2010 at 9:28 pm

    “…………You claim MI5 control Sinn Fein. Did they also control the PIRA? If so, did they carry out the Eniskillen bomb. Maybe the Manchester bomb?Or how about the Narrow Waters incident? Did they kill Mountbatton? How about Nirac?……..”

    Battle of the Bogside,

    MI5, 6, 17 or whatever had Donalson in their pocket, no body knows for how many years as there has been no proper open enquiry, or at least non that the rest of us mass supporters, that put our trust in the Sinn Fein leadership know the results of.

    Donalson was not somebody Gerry just use to send out for the odd wee bottle of milk or packet of crisps you know!

    Then there is that other small wee matter of the IRA’s internal security in the hands of that Italian chap who in turn was in the hands of ? and who now is enjoying the Italian sunshine, his glass of wine and a nice not so wee MI5 pension no doubt by his Italian seaside villa.

    Thanks to him and people like him, there are middle ranking offecials in MI5, English bred, born and raised that never set foot in Ireland and yet know more details about the Movement and Sinn Fein that Republicans like me who have been around in Republican circles for more than forty years.

    The Elephants in the room etc.

    The Republican Leadership do not walk on water, there have been some very serious errors of collective judgement made in the past and unless you and people like you constantly keep in mind the fact that these things happened in the past and could be happening now, then you could be very well have been sitting next to another Donaldson at the last meeting you attended.

    Last year I needed a graphic of an I.R.B. distant cousin of the 19 cen when he was a young man, none could be found but I was contacted the week past by a researcher perusing another matter to tell me that they had discovered an arrest photo at the age of twenty two years, in a 19cen R.I.C file of a cousin and did I know that it was there?

    Bingo! I now have the photo, or more correct, I now know where to find one!. Last year while researching other aspects of our general family history I found a record of dispatches carried by another family member in Elizabethan England from copies made by English Agents who had secretly searched his lodgings and found the concealed dispatches. It also threw a whole new light on hidden aspects of the Desmond Rebellion. These Intel agencies have been around a very,very long time indeed.

    So incidently have some of us opposing them but that do not count for too much these days in some quarters!.

    As to stuffing a few dubious ballot papers into an election box if that indeed was done, then ‘follow the money’ as the saying goes….. whose interests did it serve? The claims and counter claims have already taken some of the gloss off a Sinn Fein win against all the odds.

    If bogus ballot papers are found and the election is declared invalid what would that do to Sinn Fein’s credibility Nationally and Internationally in the period before crucial upcoming elections North and South? Total paranoia? Wake up and smell the coffee!

    In the words of Chairman Moe, ‘ know the mind of your enemy and you have won a thousand battles’ Meanwhile be alert, the country needs lerts!

    Ps. now that the summer is here, if you are offered free ice cream by any Italians interested in Recent Irish Republican history, please say no!

  • Neil

    Ack, it’s good to stir, isn’t it DR. The examples were in my post above, remember how you told us that the UUs were going to be in government with the head honch and how that was going to change everything – that’s gloating, i.e. expressing your self satisfaction at your situation over that of other people’s. Except you misread your situation and assumed that having hooked up with the Tory party was going to improve your lot, (and who could blame you, from the bottom the only way is up).

    But it boils down to the same thing, as no one can point out to you how wrong you were without gloating.

  • Framer

    How do we know none of the 10,000 EU nationals on the electoral register didn’t vote?

  • drumlins rock

    they are marked on the electoral register as unable to vote, btw. I think there are less than 2,000 registered in F&ST, so they could make a difference in the council elections next year.

  • drumlins rock

    Well guys, it looks like the fat lady hasn’t sung yet and the show goes on, Rodney Connor has just launched an appeal at the highcourt.

  • Munsterview

    thanks for update! As you appear to be keeping a watching brief, any interesting rumors circulating from there?

  • drumlins rock

    try the UTV news website thats where i got the confirmation, it is basically the last day an appeal can be lodged, so it hasnt been took lightly, there are alot of rumours flying about but substanciationg them wont be easy, at the very least the Electoral officials will have alot of awakard questions to answer.

  • Munsterview

    Hanging chads here we come !.

    I would nearly be tempted to go up for that one. Let’s see how long the legal process will be spun out?