Irish gun killings five times that of England and Wales…

And that’s just in the south. Conor Lally with a front page piece in the Irish Times today:

In 2008, for example, some 38.2 per cent of murders and manslaughters committed in the Republic involved firearms. During the same year, just 6.8 per cent of murders and manslaughters committed in England and Wales involved a firearm.

However the homicide rates themselves are comparable, so it’s not that Ireland is more dangerous than England, but it would seem that it has greater ease of access to guns than England and Wales. Still it would be good to see the long term comparisons.

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  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    It would be interesting to see the comparative figures for murders attributable to organised crime – I suspect that Ireland has an unhealthy lead in that area.

  • Greenflag

    At least the murders are still making the front page news 🙁

    . In California County officials recorded 740 homicides in the Los Angeles area last year. That’s an average of 14 violent deaths every week. With few exceptions, most victims simply become statistics — just numbers.

    But in 2007, the Los Angeles Times set out to dig beneath those numbers and tell the story of each and every person on a blog called The Homicide Report.

    Each week, a blogger checks in with several city and county agencies — the LAPD, the county coroner, whoever can tell the stories of who died and why.

    “Brandon Garrido, a 16-year-old Latino, died Monday, May 10, on the 3200 block of East 1st Street in Boyle Heights,” one entry begins. Another starts with “Marques McNeil, a 28-year-old black man, was shot and killed Sunday, May 9, on the corner of 78th Street and Avalon Boulevard in Florence.”

    The names go on and on and on. A photograph is attached to almost all of the entries.

    “If you’re in a smaller place, you know, there’s a local paper and a homicide is big news. In L.A., it isn’t always big news,” says Megan Garvey, who’s been running The Homicide Report for a more than a year.

    “There are people who, if it wasn’t for The Homicide Report, probably would never be acknowledged in print, whether that’s online or in a newspaper,” she says. “When Jill [Leovy] created this blog, I think that’s part of what people really responded too ”

    full report

    Of course they’ll respond for a few weeks or months and then they’ll move on to some other ‘response ‘ area .

  • Munsterview

    Just to pre-empt any off message comments that may arise, the following is very much on message and central to the issues highlighted!

    At the time of the first ceasefire in 1996 when the question of decommissioning arose, a well known security correspondent, a national name very well keyed into street culture in Dublin, estimated that at that time there were over 2,000 guns floating around the Dublin underworld alone, up to half of them automatic.

    These ‘ unlicensed guns’ got hardly a mention from the media and the politicians, few if any of the mainstream I.R.A. guns were used for personal criminal activity, and in the rare instance where this happened, the offenders were quickly dealt with in a way that left other members in little doubt as to what would happen if Standing Army Orders regarding unauthorized use of arms were breached.

    However all the concentration was on the I.R.A. and getting these strictly controlled guns out of Republican dumps: the explanation is simple; the I.R.A. guns were a threat to the Politicians, the gangsters,the drug lords and their foot soldiers were only a threat to the general public!.

    Back then gangsters and their associates, no matter how drug crazed realized that if anti-drugs and other community activists were interfered with in most urban areas, then they could appeal for help and protection to a well armed organization and that their interference would have immediate and direct personal consequences.

    The I.R.A. guns were removed and decommissioned, most of the ‘Special Garda Units’ occupied with and given unlimited overtime to control the I.R.A. in the South were stood down and the guns in the hands of the gangsters ignored….. and why not, after all they only constituted a threat to the public not the politicians! More it absolutely suited them; with the community anti-drug activists intimidated off the streets, there was no real opposition to the drug pushers and the problem was off the front pages.

    I was amazed that ‘Mick The Mouth’ and the P.D. lost out in the last election as decisively as they did since every serious criminal and their extended families owed them a debt of gratitude. Like wise Dick Spring in his own patch who refused to pull out of the peace process Republicans were prepared to give drug pushers a free hand. Well to stop confronting them but the same difference since there was no one else to protect the anti-drug campaigners.

    Dick paid the price for that, to the Tralee voting public a convicted I.R.A. gun runner and time served ex political prisoner prepared to confront drug pushers was more preferable as their T.D. irrespective of how many ‘goodies’ he brought to the area using his ministerial influence.

    Since the situation has gone ‘to hell in a handbag’ guns to gangsters are not just tools they are also status symbols and fashion accessories as essential as the gold necklaces, chunky gold rings and flash cars and the rest of the bling. Even ten years ago it was well past the stage where any aspiring street tug never mind a serious criminal could be seen with anything less than a fully automatic, state of the art machine pistol.

    Armed drug dealing, drug using crazed tugs now rule the roost in all areas Urban and Rural alike. There is not one single village or area containing a handful of teens and young people in Southern Ireland that are not now ‘owned’ by some criminal gang in a nearby town, who in turn are owned by major city gangs prepared to kill to protect their market.

    In the firebombing of the head-shops the public got a glimpse of just how far criminals were to go to remove any marked competition with what they consider their exclusive revenue sources.

    The speed with which the Head Shops were closed down by the Minister for Justice after years of consistent parental and public complaint had little to do with closing down the head-shops because they were dishing out legal highs to young people, but everything to do after the first fire-bombings, with concealing the extent and reach of the underground drug gangsters before they took their ant-head-shop campaign Nationwide and the general public became aware of the true extent of the criminal underground in the country. More Fianna Failure smoke and mirrors!

    If there were two thousand guns in the hands of drug crazies on the streets of Dublin, back in 1996, just how many more, are there in Dublin now fourteen years later, and mostly automatic weapons at that, never mind rocket launchers and what not, as recent chance discoveries by the Gardai have shown. What of Cork, Waterford, Galway and of course Limerick where like the Old Wild West a man is not a man until he has his own horse and a gun.

    By all accounts from Limerick there is a big difficulty for aspiring crims in this regard, it is now easier down there apparently to get a good gun than a good horse!

    The only surprise in the figures is that given all the guns in circulation that the murders directly arising from criminal activity are as low as they are. As to the ‘ bring back hanging brigade’, the U.S.A. States that have and exercise the death penalties have average killings of 5.2 per 100,000 people while the States that do not use the death penalties have average killings of 3.3 per 100,000. ( 2008 figures) Interesting!

  • Munsterview

    Correction, not having a good day!

    Dick paid the price for that, to the Tralee voting public a convicted I.R.A. gun runner and time served ex political prisoner prepared to confront drug pushers was more preferable as their T.D. to a Taniste and Powerful Government Minister, irrespective of how many ‘goodies’ he brought to the area using his ministerial influence.

  • Greenflag

    So much for so called Conservative family values ? Well perhaps the BIg Society will have a better outcome for families than John Major’s England with nuns on bicycles cycling down country lanes to service ;(

    The American experience so often a predictor of fashions on this side of the pond i.e the Thatcher & Greenspan combo may be replicated as the UK seeks to keep pace with the cousins.

    Not a good idea according to this latest research .

    Many of our assumptions about the cultural divide between red and blue states may be wrong. New research shows that more liberal states, like Massachusetts, tend to have the lowest rates of divorce and teen childbirth. In other words the most stable families, the homes with two parents to nurture their kids, are found in the liberal strongholds along the East and West Coasts.

    Conversely, the higher rates of teen childbirth and divorce occur in the red states that conservatives so often celebrate as the heartland of family values.

    Naomi Cahn and June Carbone explain this apparent paradox in their book, Red Families V. Blue Families.

    Those trying to grapple with single parent family traps in the UK & Ireland might want to learn from the American experience and from Vermont and Massachussetts rather than Georgia or Kansas .

    Again never mind what the neo cons say just watch what they do and how their anti social policies wreak havoc.

  • jim

    ira guns werent used for criminal activity…………………take that 1 up with garda mc cabes widow

  • Bonzo

    And the stabbing ratio?

  • wee buns

    We are not more murderous than England. We have lower crime rates in the six counties. WHY then do we have the emergency measures of so called ‘diplock’ courts?
    Is it because we is black?

  • Steve Jones

    @wee buns

    You don’t have Diplock courts. They were abolished in 2007. As for lower crime rates? I would suggest that you wait a while – with the troubles it will take a little while before the long term average drops.

    Incidentally, the 6 counties homicide rate is slighly higher than England and Wales (but not Scotland). England and Wales in 2007 had a homicide rate about 1.4 per 100k of population. In the same year in Northern Ireland there were 26 NI homicides (with the population of NI being about 1.7 then that’s a bit over 1.5 per 100k or slightly higher.

    Also, the article was about the republic of Ireland – also slightly higher than England and Wales.

    However, the shocker is Scotland. Much the worst recent homicide record in the British Isles.

  • keano276

    diplock courts still exist.

  • Brian


    Are you a Tralee man yourself?

    (Up Kerry No. One!}

  • Brian

    Studies show (US political party) Republicans are generally happier, less likely to divorce, and more satisfied in their work life.

    I think the key stat is lower education=more teen pregnancy and higher divorce rates, all things being equal

  • Brian

    What was the murder rate in 1972