Northern Bank robbery – redux

In an under-reported move on Friday, 63 year-old George Hegarty, of Donnybrook Cottages, Douglas, Cork, pleaded guilty to money laundering at his address in February 2005, knowing or believing that the £66,000 Sterling found at his home represented the proceeds of a robbery at the Northern Bank, Belfast in December 2004, or being reckless as to whether that money was or represented such proceeds.  As yesterday’s Irish News noted

Mr Hegarty was originally arrested in February 2005 at the same time as Cork financier Ted Cunningham, Dublin businessman Phil Flynn and former Sinn Féin councillor Tom Hanlon.

Mr Hegarty, who said he was a republican and a member of Sinn Féin, was initially released without charge.

However, in May last year he appeared in court alongside Mr Hanlon accused of IRA membership on February 16 2005.

Interestingly, the party references I noted in May 2009 seem to have been edited from the original BBC report, but at least one report from 2005 remains accessible online describing Hegarty as a “Sinn Féin activist”.  The iol report noting that Hegarty “is also known as a Sinn Féin member and republican” also remains.

Among those originally arrested in February 2005, Ted Cunningham has been convicted and received a 10 year sentence for attempting to launder more than £3million from the Northern Bank robbery. He has also consented to a confiscation order for €343,520 which he is to pay to the Irish State.  His son, who pleaded guilty to one charge, received a 3 year suspended sentence.

Then-30-year-old Don Bullman was arrested at Heuston Station in Dublin in February 2005 with a red Daz washing powder box containing more than €94,000.

Bullman was described in the 2005 report noted earlier as “a chef and fundraiser for Sinn Féin”.  He was eventually charged with membership of the IRA.

Two men from Londonderry arrested with Bullman were released without charge at the time.

In March 2007 Don Bullman was sentenced to 4 years for membership of the IRA and, after his appeal was dismissed in 2009, he was released from prison in March of this year [scroll down].

Don Blaney was arrested at his home in Passage West, Cork, at the same time as George Hegarty.

In March 2008 Blaney, as noted in this report, was charged with possession of 220 rounds of live ammunition found when gardaí raided his home in February 2005 following a tip-off that a man was burning cash in his back yard.

In April 2009 the 51 year-old Blaney was sentenced to two years for possessing more than 200 rounds of ammunition for a Kalashnikov assault rifle.

As another report notes

Phil Flynn, a respected Government consultant and industrial relations trouble-shooter, was a former director of the company [Chesterton Finance] but has consistently denied any knowledge of a money laundering scam or any wrongdoing.
His Dublin offices were raided as part of the widening garda probe in 2005 and, after a miniature pen-gun was found in his desk, he was charged with possession of a firearm and ordered to make a charity donation.
He was also forced to resign from his position as chair of the Government’s decentralisation committee, chair of the Bank of Scotland (Ireland), and a board member of VHI. 

And with the charge against former Sinn Féin councillor Tom Hanlon unresolved, as far as I can tell, that would seem to be where we are at as a result of “Operation Phoenix, a huge cross-border investigation, involving anti-terrorist units, fraud squads and the Criminal Assets Bureau.”

, , , , , , , ,

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    Well its good that all this under-reported stuff is being brought to our attention.
    As SFs murder campaign is tolerated by its voters, its more than likely its involvement in a robbery will cost it a single vote on Thursday.

  • Granni Trixie

    Very impressive CSI style work,Pete. But you know it beggars believe that despite the welter of evidence of the money trail some people (including contributers to this site) have difficulty in putting their hands up and saying that it leads to IRA/SF. We can also add trhe Northern Bank to the list of Adam’s lies.

  • percy

    ZZZzzzz
    I know suday is a boring day esp for non-theistic space-cadets,
    but surely lighting your own farts has got to be more fun.
    Now where’s my lighter?

  • Granni Trixie

    Percy: Even if the story of stealing millions and who stole them is unremarkable to you, to many it is of interest not least as it confirms a facet of the dirty war which some political leaders consistently deny existed. Another piece in the jigsaw of “truth”.

    You sound as if you believe that stealing is wrong.Or do you believe that the IRA were justified as they were giving it to the poor? (a wee joke of mine – we know where it went,dont we).

  • Granni Trixie

    Should have said ofcourse, “that stealing is NOT wrong”, sorry (drat, that no show preview button is sorely missed).

  • Since one old and ill republican died penniless and another has been charged with shop lifting, due no doubt to straitened circumstances. It would be very interesting to know where the money actually went. Someone is sitting on the proverbial pot of gold, or in this case vault.

  • Pete Baker

    Thanks Granni Trixie

    As for the visually impaired.

    They are just following orders the example set.

  • Michaelhenry

    were did it go then, did you tell the police where the money went.

  • TheHorse

    Of course we all know who got that money the question that needs to asked is – did they really steal it or were they given access to it. After all the UDA, UVF. East Antrim UDA were all given millions to do what they were told. The British Government couldn’t openly do the same for the IRA they done it by other means.

  • Seamus

    Only a few years earlier, that money would not have been stolen but Liberated. LOL

  • Michaelhenry

    so anyone convicted should be freed horse, if has you say that it was a goverment plot.

  • TheHorse

    Is Mark Haddock free !

  • TheHorse

    Well its usually the Government who come out with a nice way to explain a bad situation but in this case I wouldn’t call it Liberated more embezzled.

  • Michaelhenry

    is haddock inside for a bar death when he beat someone up, hard to compare the two.

  • TheHorse

    No he’s not but he’s inside for working for an arm of the Government namely their intelligence services.

  • Michaelhenry

    yea, you did not do it, so no one else could.

  • TheHorse

    Yeah sure we’ll all believe what were told and disbelieve what we can see with our eyes.

  • Michaelhenry

    or make up something in your head.

  • TheHorse

    Yeah Castlereagh break in, Northern Bank Scappatachi, Donaldson and accusations that unbelievably stayed secret for thirty years. Theres me thiking Mission Impossible was a fictional film

  • Michaelhenry

    mission IRELAND.

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    Not to mention Robert McCartney, The Disappeared and 30 years of Terrorism.
    But not exactly an issue on the doorsteps.

  • TheHorse

    mission Ireland – Do you still believe that. Maybe when they take their seats at Westminster you’ll change your mind.

  • Michaelhenry

    the brits do not go to our doorsteps.

  • TheHorse

    But their employees do

  • Michaelhenry

    never happen horse, even someone like you should have kept your eyes open.

  • Michaelhenry

    the brits hire people who do not take the oath, who is going to change who.

  • percy

    Trixie
    of course its wrong, and its still under investigation, which is where it should remain.
    some people seem to have too much time on their hands methinks!

    The old adage “The devil makes work for idle hands” seems appropriate here.

    Which is to say that if one was interested in or busy building or being part of creating the new relationships/structures of the “shared future”; there’s alot more worthwhile news items to be blogging about.

    Its dull repetitive strain-injury from peteb, we’ve come to expect.
    Along with Mark McGregor’s tripe, the site has taken a nose-dive of late; with only Brian Walker to rescue the credibility of the Award-winning website.

    My suggestion is a cull, or limit SF shit-stirring to one post a week, and if the writers can’t abide by that..they know where the door is..

  • TheHorse

    Never say never in politics, theres always a good explaination for a U Turn. By any means necessary and all that.

  • TheHorse

    Michaelhenry if I knew what you were talking about I’d give you a response.

  • Alias

    The problem for the Shinners is that this act of organised crime for personal gain can’t be spun as “raising money for the cause” since it occurred long after they had declared an end to their sectarian murder campaign.

    It remains therefore as purely an act of organised crime. Tim Pat Coogan tried to spin it as a “retirement fund” for the volunteers but they haven’t received any of it. It is only the godfathers who shared this money.

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    In the 2003 Assemble Elections SF got 23.5% of the votes cast.
    December 2004 the Northern Bank was robbed (and everyone “knew” who dunnit).
    Westminster 2005 …..24.3%
    2007…….26.2%

    I cant actually see how the Northern Bank robbery or fall out has been a “problem” to SF-IRA

  • Granni Trixie

    Some responses above really did make me laugh out loud,esp nonsoblind (aka TheHorse).
    (you couldnt make it up).

  • kells

    There is a terrific story out there for any reporter who wanted it.Or are the press working on orders from the Brits,still.

  • TheHorse

    Yeah Trixie add in the “We only take an industrial wage” line, but it can buy them a lifestyle that you could only have if you won the lotto. When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

  • percy

    NI is in a much better place/state than ever in its history.
    You’ve 2 fine leaders in Robinson/MCGuiness- steadying the ship.
    But that’s not good enough for the ” “visually impaired”-”
    Get a life !

  • Henry94

    If elements of the mainstream republican movement were involved then it was certainly very silly of them and the lack of any kind of further incident of that nature suggests that message has got through.

    Anybody with a political brain would have known how unhelpful it would be to the political process and so it transpired. I suppose the main positive that can be taken from it is that it brought home the necessity for a complete stand down of the IRA.

    Anyway we have an election this week so other than nostalgia for those interesting debates at the time I wonder why this is coming up now.

  • Oracle

    If you looking for one of those idiotic blind buffoons that coat-trail for S/F on this site and refuse too see the facts…. Here is a stunning example from just a few days ago in response to a post from me!….. it’s wonderful especially his first response…. It’s just so fitting on Pete’s thread.

    Neil says:
    28 April 2010 at 1:35 pm
    Ah, wonderful. My question In a democracy is it not the case that people are considered innocent until proven guilty? is now answered. The unproveable suspicions of what is widely considered the the backwoodsmans party, one which provides representation to no-one and as a straw poll the average thread on this site attracts 20 people sneering at the TUV for every one supporter, these people can act as judge and jury when bandying about accusations that have already failed in a court of law? Allow me to respond to your well thought out points:
    IRA have robbed banks one being the Northern of 26million some of this stolen money was recovered from Sinn Fein sources and members.
    Prove it.
    IRA have robbed post offfices since the ceasefire one being in Newry were they also murdered one of the workers.
    Prove it.
    IRA have been responsible for up to a dozen other murders since the ceasefire, including rival dissident Joe O’Connor, drug dealers, and drinkers in a pub in Belfast (McCartney).
    Prove it.
    hink you keep confusing SF with a normal political party instead of a collection of gangsters, murderers and pedophiles.
    Prove it.

  • Oracle

    Pete,

    Forgive me for not stating that your thread was an outstanding piece of craft, a lot of time and detailed work involved and you deserve a big big Hat-Tip….

  • TheHorse

    Oracle allegations of child abuse and lewdness is not confined to one particular party around these parts. What about Ted Heath and Kincora. Super injunctions and all that. Then the outgoing prime minister himself, an inquiry into which Tony Blair supressed under the 100 year rule

    http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=2043

    Is the issue of 1,000,000 deaths of innocent men woman and children in Iraq murder or reasonable force.

    Then there’s the legal theft of taxpayers money at Westminster in expenses, £300 for a pen, How much for heavy drapes and oh yeah claiming back £1 for a charity donation.

  • Cynic

    “did you tell the police where the money went”

    …….. there’s still £5million missing. That’s a lot of holiday homes in Donegal for those working for the average industrial wage, ain’t it.

  • oracle

    The Horse,

    My point and I did draw attention in the opening line and further information that in was in the first reply from Neil was his demand to “prove it” even thouh the evidence was in the public domain.
    I didn’t edit his reply because I had no wish to be accused of taking anything out of context.

    Pete has put a lot of work in to furnish Neil and Co with enough information to keep their eyes shut for years!

  • TheHorse

    Try further afield in more exotic places.

  • Neil

    Neil was his demand to “prove it” even thouh the evidence was in the public domain.

    Yes very good Oracle, if you can prove all that you say then why haven’t charges been brought against anyone succesfully? It’s a black and white matter of law in a democracy: innocent ’til proven guilty.

    In your initial post you have provided a list of crimes which no one has been convicted for. Not only that but any crime committed by any person involved with the IRA means, to you, that it was subject to a discussion by Gerry and Marty, sanctioned by the Army Council and initially suggested by the SF party, every single member and voter.

    The fact is that all of the events listed are subject to different versions of events from different people. It is not for me (or I would have thought you, but I was incorrect it seems) to determine the guilt or innocence of individuals or parties. That is a job for the courts, and as it happens they have tried to pin the blame on various people, for the various crimes mentioned but the ever above reproach criminal justice system and the cops, for whatever reason couldn’t prove that the innuendo of people on the internet was correct.

    Again, I reiterate, if you can prove anything you say, toddle off down your local PSNI station and hand over your information forthwith. Otherwise accept, or fail to, that the crimes that you say were committed by the IRA or individual members of the IRA have gone uncharged.

    And also I repeat the following. I’m not saying they did, I’m not saying they didn’t. That’s not my job.

    Incidentally for background, here was what I replied to in our initial conversation the one in which you listed those unproven crimes:

    Therefore having a first minister linked even tentatively to an entity that still has unaccounted for weapons, involved in kidnapping murder and bank robbing is completely unacceptable to the TUV and their supporters.

    So in essence you’re a reasonable bloke who supports the TUV (snigger) to whom Martin McGuinness is totally unacceptable as first minister regardless as is any other member of SF regardless of democracy and the way it plays out here. Just think it’s important for other Republicans to understand you want them back in their box.

  • Neil

    Incidentally, terribly brave and forthright of you to wait 6 days to reply and open with idiotic buffoon. Nice.

  • socaire

    Cynic, I know a republican bought a rundown cottage for £4000 and spent 10 years and £26000 and his own holidays,time and effort doing it up. Does he fall under the snide umbrella of ‘senior republicans with holiday homes in Donegal’?

  • TheHorse

    Socaire its not the issue of certain people having holiday homes, its where the money came from to get them. Im sure theres loads of people on an industrial wage in republican areas who couldn’t afford the lifestyle that certain people’s industrial wages get.

  • socaire

    Take the meal out of your mouth, Horsey, and list all the ‘certain people’ who have holiday homes in Donegal. Gerry Adams doesn’t count as he’s an author as well and as an MP is entitled to money for a second home. Marty is deppitty FM. So who else do you know?

  • TheHorse

    Why would Gerry and Martin be entitled to second homes outside the UK Socaire. Maybe Gerry could have bought a third one if he had of got his way and made himself a financial beneficiary of the Bobby Sands Trust like he tried to. Money money money it makes the Sinn Fein world go round.

  • socaire

    As michaelhenry would say – don’t believe all you read or you’ll eat all you see. Now for the facts. Prove that ole Gerry tried to make himself a whatever of the trust, how he failed and how was he stopped. Mr Baker might help you with the links. Industrial wage in UK is £27000. If you had that and all your expenses paid , you could do a lot.

  • TheHorse

    I dont need Mr Baker to show me links it was in the Irish News.

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/12/29/former-hunger-stiker-calls-on-adams-to-resign-from-sands-trust/

    £500 a week – Dont think too many from republican areas get that much a week on an industrial wage.

  • socaire

    A hearsay article from professional ‘Adams – bashers’ in the Irisdlp News is not proof. I can see a report from a virulent anti SF faction that things didn’t go their way. All these people who know what X would/wouldn’t have done if he was alive give me the creeps. That is the industrial wage and in the south it was E42000. Surprised me too!

  • It was a well organised, professional, job with considerable back up. We know there are several crime gangs north and south, but I am not sure those other gangs have the command structure to ensure the absolute secrecy and discretion needed for a job like this, over a period such as this.

    So PIRA remain strong suspects, and considering the history deservedly so.

    Mind you if anyone should know the name of the person holding the bulk of the cash… I have a short tear jerking letter, just waiting for an address…

  • It wouldnt surprise you if you lived here mate. £500 a week does not go far, certainly not far enough. I thank whatever gods there are I have no mortgage!

  • TheHorse

    Socaire are you suggesting Bobby Sands` family are liars, that a former hunger striker and lifelong republican is virulently anti republican. By the way how many industrial wage’s does Gerry and Marty etc get as they’re MP’s, MLA’s, Councillors, add on the expenses, newspaper columnists, writing books, doing programs about religion, all adds up to a tidy wee sum eh. ah socialism thats just for the proletariat these days.

  • socaire

    I would not say they are liars, but even brothers fall out. I did not say anti republican, I said anti SF. And Gerry and Marty’s money is all legit so why are they on a thread about the Northern Bank robbery? Are you not mixing up socialism and communism? And, patience, you have all your income from your writing.

  • hodgie

    i am not a “professional adams basher” nor am i a member of ” a virulent anti-sinn fein faction”.

    i am a member of no political party or grouping and seek membership of no political party of grouping.

  • TheHorse

    Pippakin did the Government openly give millions to the UDA, did the UVF and East Antrim UDA get paid off – yes, so is it really so unbelievable that the government would facilatate the IRA getting paid off. A government under Tony Blair who fooled the British people about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq but who has made £20 million personally from his oil dealings in Iraq in the last 4 years.

  • Socaire!

    Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

  • No it would not surprise me, but nor would it surprise me to find any republican group, particularly SF blaming the Brits. Its the boy who cried wolf, again.

  • Granni Trixie

    Last year I heard that GA spends much time not so much in Donegall but in a flat in |Manhatton! But I have no idea if it is true! Anybody kinow?

  • No idea, but if true it would be interesting, Manhatton , rent or buy, is very, very expensive.

  • TheHorse

    I dont get any money from writing and yes Gerry and Marty’s money is legit but lets dispel the myth about only taking an industrial wage. And Im not mixing up socialism with communism maybe you should look up proletariat in the dictionary. Whats patience got to do with anything?

  • The Horse

    The last sentence addressed to ‘Patience’ was meant for me, and if there is one thing Socaire knows, he knows I do not earn money from writing…

  • socaire

    Is that the Manhattan in New York?

  • socaire

    ….. or the Manhatton in Donegall?

  • redhugh78

    what a surprise article from Pete, NOT!

    full of innuendo and hearsay, no mention of the stash that was actually northern bank money found in none other than an RUC old boys sports and leisure club.

  • Brian MacAodh

    Certainly former Provos were involved. At least a few of them with some other elements, probably. I hardly think the higher ups in SF would sanction such a movement as it brought considerable negative publicity and scrutiny to them as they tried to play the role of simple politicians.

    Either way, until they are caught peoplewill try to blame and drag into it whomever they want to. It’s all pointless speculation. BTW If i robbed 26 million pounds I would buy a retirement home in the Canarys or the Caribbean, not Donegal. But that is just me.

  • Granni Trixie

    redhugh:not rocket science, the RUC bag was found instantly – ‘everybody’ assumed it was a wee Ra joke. Remember?

  • I have been reading and participating in this thread, but despite my best efforts, a worm of thought keeps wriggling through my head: Twenty million pales into insignificance when compared to the billions flushed down the toilet by the ‘oh so honest, cream of the crop’ bankers.

  • Granni Trixie

    On this site and elsewhere the Alliance Party and elsewhere are in serious trouble for ANYTHING! And we never robbed or killed anybody!.
    Its so not fair. (but I accept that this is the way of the world – in NI)

  • TheHorse

    Thats what you get for trying to ride many horses Trixie, in this country you either support the Union or a United Ireland, theres no middle ground.

  • its all jealousy, that and the fact they cannot be blamed for anything…

  • Michaelhenry

    the ALLIANCE party robbed the policing and justice job, well according to the stoops they did.

  • redhugh78

    So then you draw your conclusions on meaningless hearsay and assumption in one case and don’t in another .
    Double standards.

  • TheHorse

    Have to agree with you there Michaelhenry they got gifted a position on the executive that their mandate did not entitle them. The DUP agreed because they are a Unionist party.

  • Granni Trixie

    So you have to support a United Ireland or the union? But Alliance exists precisely for those who think olthewise. It offers choce.As for the P&J job, whatever the reason they are trusted to do it.

  • Michaelhenry

    and SINN FEIN agreed because now there is no opposition in the assembly.

  • TheHorse

    You misunderstood me. The DUP agreed because the Alliance party are a Unionist party.

  • Macanna

    just how excatly was the money linked to the northern bank? Was it through serial numbers? And how do you prove membership of the Ira? I mean really, how do you do that?

  • Macanna

    Actually the ruc would have been better placed to do the robbery intelligence wise. matbe the joke was on you trixie.

  • Pete Baker

    Henry

    If Mr Hegarty had pleaded guilty earlier then I would have been able to put this post together earlier.

    But you know that…

    “I suppose the main positive that can be taken from it is that it brought home the necessity for a complete stand down of the IRA.”

    Indeed.

    Cui bono?

  • lamhdearg

    Granni, The Alliance Are a unionist party.

  • Granni Trixie

    Let me say it yet again – nothing wrong with being (nonviolent) unionist,nationalist,republican and though some of you may define APNI as exclusively unionist,from experience I find such an identiy much too simplisitic to be accurate.

    On the RUC and the Northern money – if the RUC stole it why did the man in Cork with Ra links not say so when he pleaded guilty to laundering the money?

  • Neil

    Sayings mud slinging’s the order of the day allow me to hypothesise one potential answer to:

    if the RUC stole it why did the man in Cork with Ra links not say so when he pleaded guilty to laundering the money?

    If the RUC stole it, and they were planning a stitch up, i.e. spread a bit of the dough about in the Provos on the off chance that any of the soon to be useless sterling which would turn up, would therefore turn up on a Provo allowing further innuendo to be spread regarding the likely culprits. So the decision is made to get some of the cash into the hands of say a dozen Republicans.

    How does an RUC man get money to these people? He lifts the phone and gets one of his informers to come in. He picks someone with a bit of clout and reputation. He tells this informer/Provo to take the money and hand it off to certain people (preferably pussies who know very little about anything – maybe a couple of ‘SF activists’), and to tell those certain people that this is a freelance RA job by top chucks, and should he ever feel the need to grass anyone up he can expect to turn up in a skip. Here’s some money for your previous good work, enjoy!

    Jees this mudslinging’s fun, I can see why certain people do it so much.

    Also as an aside to all of that, does anyone not find the money turning up in the golf club a teeny weeny bit suspicious? The most professional bank job ever done apparantly, these guys were forensically aware, probably shaved every inch of their bodies to ensure DNA wasn’t found. They got away with the biggest job in history and decide ‘I know what we’ll do for shits and giggles. We’ll hide money in an RUC frequented golf club as a kind of two fingers up. Yeah sure someone could walk in and see the person doing it at any time, and there are at least a dozen ways this ‘joke’ could go wrong, but fuck it. You only live once’.

    A strange line of thought for the most professional group of bank robbers who were so sophisticated they must have been in the RA as no one else could do it (according to, well, um, the RUC), and who had just pulled of a flawless bank job worth twenty million quid. Seems a lot to risk for a bit of a jape to me.

    Finally I’d add that the only quote attributed to the accused sounds very much like someone in fear to me:

    Sergeant Cahill said that when arrested and cautioned, Mr Hegarty replied: “I’m guilty of it anyway. I’m pleading guilty.”

    That sounds like a man who’s taking the punishment and not fighting his case, I wonder why?

  • Granni Trixie

    Neil gives new meaning to “you coudln’t make it up” – he has! Yes its fun, but only to a limited degree.

  • Neil

    It’s no less plausible to me than saying ‘the peelers said the RA done it’ and accepting that as gospel. Nothing I’ve said involves anything impossible, or even unlikely to someone capable of robbing 20 million quid.

    My problem is that the piss useless police force can come out and say ‘it was the RA’ while pointedly failing to prove anything, at around the same time being done for tampering with evidence on the Omagh case, and finally unsuccesfully prosecuting a non IRA linked person from West Belfast. Bearing in mind that the ‘RA’ accusation gives them good cover for doing what they do best (not catching criminals), and that the same police were haevily involved in all sorts of nefarious activities.

    These are the people who’s accusations you take as gospel? Good luck with that, they’ve done nothing but lie for 30 years, you obviously believe they’ve turned over a new leaf. I don’t.

  • Granni Trixie

    Neil,for the record I do not give a blank check to the police
    (taking their word as ‘gospel’ as you have it). I do however subscribe to the ‘bad apple’ theory – there are good cops as well as bad and Patton has done much to rectify systemic and cultural imbalances.
    Whilst yes I do believe they have turned over a new leaf, I also think that they remain spectacularly unsuccessful in catching criminals.

    As I hope is obvious I think for myself and do not unthinkingly accept the RUC,media, Ra or anybodys version of the Norther robbery. On that basis I am surprised anybody thinks the Ra didnt do it.

  • Neil

    That’s spot on. My problem is not what people think, rather what people (or more specifically Oracle) purport to know. We don’t know until such times as the judge passes sentence on someone.

    Where this discussion started for me was with Oracle’s statement that no Shinner should ever be first minister, and that the decent folks over in the TUV were going to do something about it. This was put down to his ‘knowledge’ of IRA crimes and the Shinner conspiracy. My problem was that he sought to use innuendo as proof in that context.

    This was before Oracle, (after a decent 6 day break) copied an pasted my post as proof of the ‘idiotic buffoons’ of which I am an example. I say again in the context of that argument, unprosecuted accusations from TUV supporters will not be enough to circumvent democracy or the criminal justice system; we don’t determine guilt or innocence based on what we’ve read in the paper. That’s the justice system’s job.

    It’s just a shame that the election isn’t over so we can produce the tally for the TUV and see exactly how representative of Unionism the TUV really is. Not very I’d say.

  • Granni Trixie

    Didnt know your backstory Neil but hope you get over it!
    To me the TUV are the old DUP, MK2. They will get votes from the extremes but dont think that there will be many ‘soft’ TUV votes to garner.
    The TUV being personality lead (by one) is sort of advanatageous but ultimately an obstacle to growth. And very old fashioned.Wonder for how long Jimbo can sustain claims of success when the evidence is otherwise.

    Anyway, anorak that I am I am so looking forward to trawling over the results on Thurs night in the Kings Hall, in particular for signs of change/movement.