Time to expose collusion

Rather late in the day, the Indy is carrying David McKittrick’s obituary for Judge Henry Barron who in 1999 carried out the first inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings of 1974. The familiar suspicions of British security forces collusion at official level with loyalist paramilitaries and southern government cover up carry weight on account of David’s authority as one of the most scrupulous and detailed reporters of the long war. The Wiki version also gives a fair account of collusion claims beyond the bombings. I can just about understand that disclosure of the tangled webs of collusion might have had a disastrously destabilising effect in two periods: one, at times when the security forces seemed to be losing all control; and two, when disclosure might have dragged the peace process down, as it was important that the various parties overlooked the worst of their records for the purpose of reaching agreement. But now as the Troubles are receding and a platform of stability has been established, it’s hard to see what there is to gain by continued suppression. Part of the reason may lie in the normal bureaucratic reflex of secrecy on security matters which the new culture of relative openness and FOI has yet to penetrate fully. Perhaps they’re waiting for the IRA and the other paramilitaries to confess in unison. Although I contend that an informal amnesty has long been in force, a statute of limitations may be neccesary. The Barron and Stevens reports point irresistibly to collusion and compel a better answer than persistent silence. Some may believe these two reports amount to the fullest disclosure we’re going to get. Others may be waiting for the Cory reports to establish a context. It is wrong to pin all blame on the Finucane family for that impasse. For as long responsibility is not discussed never mind admitted, fair minded people will suspect that the truth is so terrible that no government will dare disclose it. For as long as collusion remains so unresolved, British protestations of good faith in dealing with terrorism of all kinds will continue to ring hollow.

  • I am not sure it is time to be completely open about British or indeed Irish govt involvement in acts of violence.

    The peace is skin deep, some hate the Brits so much they never miss an opportunity to have a go. Others are equally as bad in their hatred of the Irish govt. The result is we have to be very careful how either govt is implicated in acts of violence.

  • lamhdearg

    Why do people assume loyalist killers where incapable of carrying out evil acts without the help of others.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    An excellent post from Mr Walker.
    Much as I obviously support the Peace Process (an odd thing to say like supporting Motherhood and Applie Pie) I firmly believe that the achilles heel of the Process is the Creative Ambiguity (or LIES!!!) or as Mr Walker points out lack of disclosure.
    Mr Walkers former colleague Mark Urban wrote a book “Big Boys Rules” which probably is one of the most under-rated books about the Troubles.

    Surely we are adult enough to “get” that nobody comes thru the period 1968-1998 smelling of roses. Something is owed to History. And it is one of those times that people need to move together.

  • dundonald voter

    fitzjameshorse well put mate.

    Surely we are adult enough to “get” that nobody comes thru the period 1968-1998 smelling of roses.
    and the poignant thing is how many lives were lost through this period to utter dirty tricks. despicable people who allowed these things to happen

  • dundonald voter

    I would like to think so, but for everyone who is so grown up, there is another one whose ancient anger is reignited to who knows what effect. The time for history to tell the truth is when it is history.

  • The Raven

    I’m with pippakin. Otherwise, it’s Truth Commission time. And we all know that no side will tell all.

  • Pippakin, it’s unlikely that history can or will tell the truth; not all of the actions considered and decisions taken will have been recorded.

  • Nevin

    I imagine many of the decisions and actions have been well buried and never were written down.

    Everyone needs time and this is not the time. The peace is only starting to have an effect now, why risk it for the sake of something no one will change their minds about anyway.

    No one could prove to some republicans satisfaction, that the Brits were not involved in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. No one could prove to some loyalist factions that the Irish govt did not collude in some actions of the IRA.

    It would be a pointless and no doubt very expensice paper chase.

  • sorry I meant expensive!

  • Munsterview

    I had a meeting with Judge Barron and some of his staff regarding certain information that I was in a position to give to the enquiry.

    Much has been made in recent times of the fact that Bishops conducting investigations into C.S.A. tried to keep all the enquiry process, especially witness testimony secret, to the extent that victims were sworn not to disclose information to any outside the Investigation.

    One of Mr. Justice Barron’s Council, now himself a Judge of the Superior Courts, was adamant even before my testimony that I could not disclose what I said to the enquiry to the extent that I was not even supposed to disclose the fact that I had appeared before it.

    I have the greatest possible respect for the late Mr. Justice Barron; one of the few of that sorry pompous lot of self regarder, time servers in the Superior Courts ( or lower courts for that matter) I did have any time for, I have no doubt his intentions were sincere but equally I personally believe that he was used by the Government who had to bee seen to be doing something credible in response to mounting public concern on the issue.

    There is a culture of secrecy and unaccountability at the heart of The Southern Irish State since it’s foundation. Eight-Six Republicans were murdered during the Second Defense of the Republic , many of these when in custody after appearances before Free State Military Tribunals.

    The late Sean McBride a former I.R.A. Chief Of Staff and later Government Minister told me in private conversation some years before he died, that over a dozen lorry loads of documents relating to all aspects of the Free State prosecution of the so called Civil War and other matters to do with the foundation of the State were burned and destroyed on direct Government Orders by the fore runners of Fine Gael prior to Fianna Fail taking over office.

    We have the same ‘Permanent Government’ mentality still in the Senior Civil Service, we cannot even get a accurate tally as to how many people are on stretchers in hospital corridors this weekend awaiting beds, much less something as breathtaking as the fact that serving soldiers of a foreign power waged Acts of War against this State resulting in murder, maiming of it’s innocent citizens and the destruction of their property.

    Also while on the subject of secrecy and unaccountability, for anybody who has been following my postings on the subject, we are now past mid April and that mother of a child who was sexually abused with the collusion of some Gardai and Justice officials by a police informer is still waiting for a reply from a hand delivered letter that she personally gave the Minister For Justice’s constituency sec last January requesting information and accountability.

    The Fianna Failure Juggernaut rolls on with the Greens ( despite what ‘Twittering Dan’ seeks to convey) asleep in the passenger seat! Full Dublin and Monaghan disclosure ?……… dream on!

  • Munsterview

    All govts have their secrets and whilst I do not condone it at all, I can see the need.

    Perhaps the Brits were involved in the bombings of Dublin and Monaghan, what difference would it make.

    Perhaps Dublin was involved in Bloody Friday and other atrocities, what difference would it make.

    I am not suggesting the truth is not vital, but I am saying, some will only ever believe they were and now is not the time.

  • Munsterview

    Regarding the horrible problem of CSA. It is depressing to find the doors of power remain firmly shut.

    All I can think is that it needs the glare of publicity, but that is a double edged sword and has to be considered carefully, and that is before you try to find a way of getting meaningful publicity.

  • Munsterview

    Regarding the horrible problem of CSA. It is depressing to find the doors of power remain firmly shut.

    All I can think is that it needs the glare of publicity, but that is a double edged sword and has to be considered carefully, and that is before you try to find a way of getting meaningful publicity.

  • Rory Carr

    You may, Pippakin, be able to “see the need” for the state to maintain secrecy over its collusion in bloody murder but what a pity that you are not able to see the need for the citizens of that state to be aware that its government is capable and willing to be complicit in such murderous illegality and to be able to call to account those who were responsible.

    If the state can murder its citizens or those of a neigbouring friendly state in secrecy and with impunity and we do not scream out in protest then none of us can lie safe in our own beds.

    I must say that I find your Candide-like naivety more chilling than the rough talk of hard men. People with such a disposition as yours really have me worried.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    I agree with Rory Carr.
    The notion advocated by pippakin is one of the oddest I have ever seen.

    “The time for history to tell the truth is when it is history”.

  • Rory Carr

    Chilled are you? You are also extremely selective. Just how far would these investigations go, what would they investigate. Is this a one way street, or do the Brits get to investigate Irish govt collusion.

    We all want to believe our govts should be above reproach but history teaches us the reverse is the case.

    All I have said is we should wait until the peace has the opportunity to fully establish. The last thing we need is yet another round of mud slinging.

    The one thing you can depend on from people with a ‘disposition’ like me is: we will always opt for peace. By all means investigate the events of the founding of the republic, there was enough skulduggery there to satisfy an army of Sherlocks. Its almost a hundred years and perhaps thats about the time it needs.

  • Munsterview

    Pip,

    re C.S.A., if the mother has tried to get media coverage but the State holds all the cards, because it involves details of a minor disclosed in court ‘In Camera’ ( behind closed doors ) proceedings, if she were to go public on what happened there she would be injuncted for contempt of court by the State.

    Having been a thorn in the side of quite a few of sitting Superior Court Judges on C.S.A. matters, she can expect the full letter of the law applied in its most severe form.

    On one occasion after crossing swords with a certain Judge known for protecting State interests and being threatened with contempt of court, she came to the next hearing with an overnight bag packed. When her case was called for mention, she walked up from the back of the court, her case held shoulder high holding the Judges eye, placed of the bench and then her brief case.

    There was a hushed silence in the crowded court. She then told the judge that she would not be bullied of intimidated on his or any other court. As this was in open court not camera, he backed down. The mother is a qualified lawyer, she is not laking courage, she just happens to live in a State that lacks justice or accountability.

    Thanks for your ongoing concern.

    As to the other matters, should we forget Auschwitz and the other thousands of concentration death camps for a New Europe? It is precisely because we need a new Europe that we need the truth of these things and should not forget them.

    Likewise with all the Peoples of these Islands, they deserve to know as a democratic what in England’s case was done in their name or in Southern Irelands case, what was not done.

  • FJH

    I expected nothing less from you, after all no ‘class’ is involved.

  • socaire

    patience, surely you are not suggesting that there should be a cover up? You, of all people.

  • Munsterview

    I cannot imagine how the lady copes. I hope she will eventually get justice.

    As for the investigation into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. I still say it is too soon. The peace is very fragile, with continual attempts by some to wreck it. I believe an investigation at this time risks damaging the peace. I also believe whatever the results some very vociferous voices will always refuse to believe.

    The peace needs time.

  • socaire!

    You are all Im short of…

    No I am not suggesting a cover up. I am saying we can and should wait.

  • socaire

    Then have the same patience for other enquiries and I see you still use the royal ‘we’.The 1st person singular is ‘I’ unless your multiple personalities disagree, of course.

  • socaire!

    Multiple personalities now?

    I am not your whipping boy. If you role out of the sack at eighteen hundred hours still suffering from the night before, find a chair to kick.

    I said we should wait and I still say it.

  • Alexander Hamilton: Should there be found a citizen zealous enough to undertake the unpromising task, if there happen to be collusion between the parties concerned, how easy it is to clothe the circumstances with so much ambiguity, as to render it uncertain what was the precise conduct of any of those parties?

    I think this is a fair assessment of the hopelessness of the task.

  • Nevin

    Alexander Hamilton is probably as right now as he was then, nothing really changes.

    Time will tell, we Irish have long memories and whilst this is not the time, the subject is not going away.

  • RepublicanStones

    Is this a one way street, or do the Brits get to investigate Irish govt collusion.

    Pippakin, I don’t think the irish govt have anywhere near the form the Brits have when it comes to this kind of unsavory behaviour. Britain’s pioneering tactics in this field didn’t confine themselves to this Emerald isle. Indeed such tactics were refined in positively more hot and dusty climes before being imported here.

  • RepublicanStones

    I would not be the least surprised to find you are right. I am not interested in shielding the Brits. My only interest is preserving the peace.

    I believe it is too soon for an investigation into Dublin and Monaghan.

  • RepublicanStones

    Better to wait till all the relatives die off eh 😉

  • lamhdearg

    RS, Most of the perpetrators are dead,Im with pip on this,In as far as it (an investigation) would stir up trouble,

  • RepublicanStones

    What is so wrong about wanting the peace to work. I believe there are some who would use any information against the Brits to stir up sectarian trouble, similarly I believe there are some loyalists who would do the same against the Irish.

    The truth will still be the truth no matter how much time goes by.

    We need peace not war to get a united Ireland.

    I am actually quite upset that some people think wanting the peace to work is somehow anti Irish.

  • Munsterview

    Pip,

    you seem to miss the point : this is not about some para military groups upping the ante on each other; it is about a government of a foreign country exploding bombs on the streets of another neighboring country to stampede the democratically elected representatives of that country into voting in draconian legislation that was against the National Interests of the attacked country and it’s citizens.

    In contemporary times just because France is having political problems with Bascs Nationalists can anyone imagine the outcry if France decided to bomb a few Spanish cities to force a the Spanish Parliament to vote through similar draconian legislation.

    Can anyone remember the outcry when France carried out a bombing of the Greenpeace ship in Newzeland?

    The bombing of Dublin and Monaghan is on par with the deliberate burning of Cork and Mallow on the orders of the British Government during the War of Independence, , it was a targeted act of war against a civilian population to achieve a political result favorable to the aggressor, an inner cabal of the British Establishment. If new politics for an New Ireland and a new relationship is to come into effect, I again assert that we the ordinary citizens have a right to know what England did and our own shower of would be Quislings did not do!

  • Munsterview

    I am not missing the point. I am not losing sight of what people, and some more than others, want.

    At this time such an investigation may or may not prove Brit involvement and Irish government collusion but it would create a heck of a lot of trouble. It might even cause bombs to go off.

    Some people may want that I do not and I do not consider it anti Irish to say that.

  • Harry Flashman

    “I don’t think the irish govt have anywhere near the form the Brits have when it comes to this kind of unsavory behaviour.”

    Not sure about that, if two British cabinet ministers and senior British Army officers had been implicated in the funding and setting up of a major terrorist organisation specifically designed to overthrow the government and constitution of the Republic of Ireland, a terrorist organisation which went on to slaughter hundreds of Irish citizens and assassinate many senior members of the Irish judiciary, politicians and diplomatic corps then I don’t think we’d ever hear the end of it.

    The Dublin bombings were horrific, I very much doubt however that any member of Harold Wilson’s government had anything to do with them.

  • RepublicanStones

    Pip and lamhdearg a state not held to account is a dangerous thing.
    Really Harry? Not sure you say? From Kenya to Aden, Ireland and beyond…do tell Harry…of those infamous policies and wars the Irish govt executed across the globe. As Will Smith might say Harry….’Im all ears’.

  • RepublicanStones

    If you want the Irish government to investigate British activities from Liz 1 up to and including Afghanistan I am all for it with the exception of Dublin and Monaghan.

    The same people always drone on about Brit history as though it were their own. It seems a case of ‘cant live with em, cant live without em’.

    I do not care about the Brits I do care about the Irish and I do not want to see any more Irish people murdered by someone claiming they are doing it for our own good.

    The hypocrisy of it is breathtaking. Or would be if they could only get their hands on enough semtex.

  • [quote][i]But now as the Troubles are receding and a platform of stability has been established, it’s hard to see what there is to gain by continued suppression. [/i] …. Brian Walker @ 01:23 PM[/quote]

    Oh please, Brian, you cannot be serious. Do you want every Tom, Dick and Flash Harry thinking that they know how things work and how you are led to believe what you are led to believe. ….. even whenever those doing the leading themselves don’t virtually know how it works at the higher level or where it is going to lead to eventually on the street, which is really incompetence and ignorant opportunism by another name and route and root.

  • [b] In the Land of Leprechauns, an Impotent See of Great Pretenders*/Mighty Minnows? [/b]

    [quote][i]If the state can murder its citizens or those of a neigbouring friendly state in secrecy and with impunity and we do not scream out in protest then none of us can lie safe in our own beds.[/i] …. Posted by Rory Carr on Apr 18, 2010 @ 06:29 PM[/quote]

    Rory,

    Whenever citizens of the state learn of what state heads do, thinking they have immunity and secrecy to protect them, do you think there is any protection for them, and they sleep sound in their beds? Ask anyone a simple question, and if that anyone is a statesman or politician living for free on the back of what he or she says, and they refuse to give a simple answer which can third party verified and proven to be true, are they probably always definitely hiding a crime for which they are guilty and a party to.

    And when are all here on Slugger and in Northern Ireland going to realise …….. Dragging up dirt on the Past has you living in its seedy Past whilst those in the Present cry out for you to Move On and Wise Up and Deliver the Future, which is completely Different and can be whatever you might decide it to be with IT Delivery. And if you can’t do that simple task**, then neither a worthy statesman nor real politician are you.

    * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretender
    ** You might to consider that that is a new Special Intelligence Service available from the Private and/or Pirate Cloud Sector.

  • Rory Carr

    Pippakin is concerned that an investigation “might even cause bombs to go off”, therefore there should not be an investigation. This concern seems to be based on his fear that exposing the guilt of the British government in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings might infuriate dissident Republicans to such an extent that they would be propelled into action.

    This conveniently ignores the all too present reality that the dissidents are bombing regardless of any inquiry. Indeed I suspect that if a group began an intensive bombing campaign motivated by their demand that an inquiry should be held that would leave old Pippakins in a wee bit of a quandary as to his own motivation.

  • Rory Carr

    The dissidents are indeed bombing, and that is all the more reason not to hold an investigation.

    This peace is a very fragile thing. It has to be cared for and protected. I would like to see at least one generation grow up without the fear of violence hanging over them. If that could happen the young would have the opportunity to see each other as equals and make their decisions accordingly.

    What is so un Irish about that?

    Do you think an investigation now would help the peace process, or exacerbate old wounds? and if there is an investigation what purpose would it serve. If the Irish government held an investigation and said: “Hard luck republicans, the British government had nothing to do with the bombings.” Would they be believed. I think not.

  • RepublicanStones

    Pip im not following this logic of yours which claims no attempt should be made to expose collusion for fear of it making some idiots plant bombs (even though as the good Mr Carr already pointed out, you argument requires a flux capacitor). So you think state sponsored murder should be left unchallenged. And you honestly think something left unchecked won’t occur again? What are you willing to settle for….’scouts honour’?

  • RepublicanStones

    No I am not saying anything should be left unchallenged. I am saying now is not the time to hold an investigation which is guaranteed to upset all sides, whatever the outcome.

    An investigation would not happen in a vacuum, everyone would take sides, those who think violence is the only way to a united Ireland would use any findings as ammunition for the cause. Loyalists would start reminding everyone of atrocities committed by republicans, and the danger is the whole ugly mess would be reignited.

    I do think the bombings should be investigated, but not now.

  • Panic, these ones like it up em.

    Is allowing goverments to cover stuff up the way to go.

    Is it really.

    Do you think that this will encourage them to behave better in the future.

    It certainly did’nt work on expenses and I don’t think it will in any other field either.

  • Panic etc.

    No I do not think any government will behave better than the current ones on both sides of the water, or better than any government ever has behaved. Nor do I believe an investigation will change what any government does.

    If it happened now the potential for trouble would be enormous. If we want the peace to work we must give it the time and space to do so.

    I believe there should be an investigation in time, not in the vain hope we would embarrass the Brits, nothing will do that, but because people died and many were hurt. Trouble is that happened on both sides and an investigation will reopen old wounds on both sides.

  • bigchiefally

    We either have a proper SA style truth and reconcilliation commision, where you come forward, get amnesty, tell all etc and if you dont your crime is investigated as any other murder, or we put it all behind us.

    My preference was for the SA approach, but we have missed the boat on that. It was something all non SF parties should have demanded when the GFA was being done, but they didnt, and there is no way our Deputy First Minister is now going to announce all the people he killed. Even if everyone else could be convinced of the need to air dirty laundry SF have a veto in the assembly and will go nowhere near it.

    At the minute we are doing neither this or the put it all behind us approach. We have a half way house, where a small number of UK gov/army/police attrocities are being investigated, generally without any teeth, and calls are coming in for new investigations into British actions during the troubles on a regular basis.

    I am far from saying the RUC, British Gov, Army etc were blameless, that would be stupid and wrong, but I do find it ridiculous that the people who often do call for the enquiries are in a lot of cases far from blameless themselves.

    As hard as it is on the relatives of those killed by the paramilitaries or state agents, in the abscence of the SA style commission we need to put their deaths behind us, acknowledge that all sides did wrong and look to the future.

  • Rory Carr

    STOP PRESS!

    Pippakin Calls for inquiry into Drogheda Massacre –
    But Not Yet!

    Pippakin today called for an inquiry into the massacre of over three thousand of the citizens of Drogheda by the Cromwellian forces following a surrender of the town after a siege by the English forces.

    However Pippakin was at pains to stress that the time was not yet ripe for such an inquiry as some of the relatives of those killed might yet harbour ill-feelings against the English for what was after all no more than an exercise of governmental authority during which some citizenry unfortunately choose to die.

    Furthermore with the World Cup coming up it was felt that any revelations might prove stressful to the England team and have a negative effect upon their performance in South Africa. Then we have the London Olympics in the near future and that would not be a good time either. Really the twenty-first century is likely to be a bad time entirely and there was a likliehood of feelings running high which is not very nice.

    People would be much better just to find contentment chewing Valium, reading People’s Friend and watching DVD’s of Bambi in the afternoon just like I do.

  • Rory Carr

    Well done!

    Pippakin thinks: we should give the peace process time to settle in.

    Pippakin thinks: Nothing good will come from an invesstigation at this time, and the truth is unlikely at any time.

    Pippakin thinks: the England team will bottle it no matter what.

    Pippakin thinks: the London Olympics will be a an expensive waste of time, very few medals for Ireland or England. We can at least be thankful its English money going down the toilet this time.

    Pippakin thinks: F/F and F/G should campaign in the north.

    Pippakin did not like Bambi. She is a Shrek fan, at least of one and two, by three they had lost the plot.

    Oh and Pippakin cried when old Yellow died.

  • old school

    Was anyone even questioned about these bombing in dublin monaghan?
    Was any request for extradition made?
    As ridiculous as Pippakin’s logic appears, they pretty much sum up and mirror the attitide of the 26 Counties since the bombing.
    Not a single loyalist was extraditied, questioned, or jailed for any of the scores of Loyalist killing in the South.
    British interference in the 26 Counties, lackey politicians, and fear held back justice for the families.

  • old school

    Compare this inaction to the Establishment’s rigorous hounding of Lurgan man,Martin Crory.
    This man was jailed in 1973, one year BEFORE the atrocities in Dub/ Mon.
    He served almost 19 years in jail and was released under licence in 1993.
    A few days ago, for reasons not given and evidence not produced, a British Secretary of State revoked his licence.
    It looks like he will be reimprisoned for a offence he served 19 years for already.
    It seems the mantra of “too much time has passed” does not apply if the offence involves dead British servants and the responsible is an Irish republican.

  • old school

    I think what most of us are afraid of is not the investigation but rather loyalist and republican reaction to it.

    We cannot rely on loyalist and republicans to put the country first, both sides can be guaranteed to do what they always do, and that ends up killing people.

    There is nothing ridiculous about innocent people dying.

  • old school

    The all powerful “Justice Minister” had nothing to say and played no role in the revoking of Crory’s licence by the way.
    He is window dressing for the Sec. of State.
    Sinn Fein and the SDLP also made no comment.
    Couldn’t even ask WHY the licence was revoked.

  • old school

    Pippakin, call me crazy but I assumed Sovereign Govenments launch investigations into mass murders of their citizens, the day after it happens.
    Not “consider” an investigation almost 30 years later.
    Failure to investigate on both sides of the border points only to one thing.
    State involvement and a reluctance by both states of this fact getting out.
    The 26 Counties is as morally corrupt as the British state. Both need to be dismantled.

  • old school

    Do they? I thought they got round to it when they were good and ready which as we both know is when any meaningful evidence is well hidden.

    I do not believe the peace can be risked yet. I know others have a different opinion but I think the peace is too important to risk.

  • old school

    That makes a mockery of the justice system.
    So a guy who served 19 years in jail, for an offence that predates the Dublin Monaghan bombing is to be rejailed in the next few weeks for the same offence, but no-on can even dare investigate British mass killings.
    No justice. No peace. Pippakin

  • old school

    Not at all. If someone has had their parole rescinded they should have the right to be told why, whichever government is responsible. I do not know of this case, but surely he is entitled to the same protection as any other citizen.

  • Munsterview

    Old School re anyone questioned

    Yes hundreds of interviews of civilians. More the name of at least one of the British Army Officers that went out through the port of Dublin is known as is the Mid- Ulster Loyalists that were used for ‘rank and file’

    You are not going to believe the next bit………. something like thirty bags of forensic evidence was collected for analysis. Guess where it was send…….. back up North to the Brits to do it as they had more experience with bomb debris!

    I said this repeatedly off the backs of enough lorries and other platforms down through the years… that is why I and people life me were banned from radio, T.V. and any cultural event that the Government could influence through funding….. the latter being every major festival in the country.

    You could not script this, it is almost as crazy as as a senario where serving gardai and special branch were mixing explosives, making viable bombs and planting these with defective fusing inside the Six County area……… to be found by their R.I.U. pals.

    Tons of overtime all round, commendations given to the corrupt in groups in both police forces etc.

    Pip……. To quote a Munster saying….. ” Is’nt innocence a fine thing altogether ? “

  • old school

    Munsterview, I remember watching an English T.V documentary that followed some family members at an Anniversary sermon held in Parnell Squar.
    The occasion was not marked by the Government in any way. The T.V documentary crew noticed, and recorded how carloads of plainclothes Special Branch officers were photographing and videoing the family members of the victims from a distance.
    They also jotted down number plates and questioned the English T.V crew.
    What hope did they have of seeing any justice?
    FF/FG duplicity was as bad, if not worse than the British collusion

  • Munsterview

    I take it you are referring to the prisoner who had his parole rescinded and I have to confess ignorance about the matter. As far as I know he must be entitled to the same protection in law as everyone else. Parole should only be rescinded for a violation of the terms and he has the right to know what that violation is.

    The problem I find with some republicans is since they do not see the original ‘action’ as a crime, often they do not look at the terms of their parole as valid.

    I have no respect for this government or the British government but both have been legitimately voted in by the voters in their respective countries. I find it worrying that here in Ireland a few people believe they have the right to reject the opinions of the vast majority in this country. No one has that right.

    A situation is the way it is and we can try to change that through persuasion and all peaceful means, but no one has the right to impose their will through violence, and that applies to the IRA as much as it applies to the loyalists and Brits.