Why has the media gone easy over Adams?

Seems I’m the only one of our blogging team not to have a regular local MSM billet these days. Chris seems to be settling in nicely to the BelTel, and I notice Turgon and Fair Deal are doing guest gigs in several papers these days. This morning I have an analysis piece in the News Letters Friday politics section, which questions the differing ways in which the mainstream media handle the leaders of Northern Ireland’s two largest parties.

In passing it is interesting to note that whilst there seems to be no visibly smoking gun in the £5 ransom strip story, it is likely to have some effect in the outcome of the DUP’s election performance, if only in as far as it depresses turnout for that party. The common wisdom is that Adams’ own accusations against his own brother and father will have zero impact on Sinn Fein’s electoral outcome (and I have heard nothing so far that contradicts it) which is an interesting facet in itself, since the importance of the issues themselves have an inverse social value.

  • Mark McGregor

    Mick,

    *cough* The MSM wouldn’t touch me with a shitty stick and I’d give up if they ever did!

  • LabourNIman

    I’ve said it once, ill say it again – adams has a lot of wealthy american contacts. The press donkt want to piss off the american money

  • Michaelhenry

    the land deal involved mr robinson himself, whilst the abuse deal had nothing to do with mr adams himself, the robinsons have or had constant security protection by the police, private security and even from there own party members, are we seriously to believe that mr robinson did not know about his wifes carry on before the media found out, did he keep it quiet for political reasons.

  • joeCanuck

    I believe that’s commonly known as Cognitive Dissonance.
    With a soupcon of preemptive paranoia.

  • Michaelhenry

    i cant read ulster scots, sorry joecanuck.

  • RobertEmmett

    to deal with adams saga, would be to upset the political handcart in away that shady property deals dont.

    to go at adams, would hand a victory of sort to his naysayers, but especially those dissident republican naysayers.

    upsetting the political concensus like that is a price too high.

  • Drumlins Rock

    The battleship Robinson is barely visible due to the smoke billowing from its multiple guns.

    As for dear Gerry, the SF vote shall be interesting to watch, I think a general disillusionment is more evident outside of Belfast, but it has little to do with his personal problems, but bit by bit…

  • Drumlins Rock

    its latin, im sure you learnt it from the priests at school.

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    Why has the media gone easy over Adams?

    We can only assume that they do not share the same obsession as slugger.

    Good to see that contributers are prospering no doubt due in part to your Benefice.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    They havent gone easy on Adams.
    Just some like to keep the pot boiling more than others.
    This are of course TWO Adams stories. On the “abuse” allegations, the Press and the Blogosphere have tried to emphasise the Adams connexion but either nothing has stuck or theres nothing to stick. No doubt the usual suspects will keep trying.
    The other allegation that Adams was quite possibly in the er em IRA are getting slightly hysterical.
    There is a lot of evidence out there that Adams was O/C of a company then O/C of a Battalion and O/C of the Belfast Brigade.
    The latest support for this comes from Brendan Hughes who followed exactly the same career path.
    The difference is that Hughes never bought into the Peace Process..which oddly makes him more credible to the journos who hate the Republican movement and the unholy alliance they have formed with dissidents.
    Indeed one of the Sluggers “team” is on record here as saying that he found Hughes “impressive”.

    Of course if Hughes is right about the McConville allegations, it seems odd that his supporters in the media dont emphasise the “reason/excuse” that Mrs McConville was murdered..that radio transmitter.
    Oddly among Adams supporters this will not cost him a single vote as it almost appears to validate the murder.

    And this really is at the centre of the misdirected ire at Adams.
    Regardless of alleged cover up of Child Abuse. Regardless of alleged involvement in Terrorism……people vote for Adams in droves.
    And the Adams-haters might with justification turn on the real “villains”…the voters.

  • Drumlins Rock

    fitzjames, I would guess the biggest impact the various allegations will have will be in distracting Adams from the real issues the party faces, ie. increased dissatifaction in the ranks over a rang of issues.

  • jtwo
  • Mick Fealty

    jtwo,

    Maybe you could read beyond page one of the article first…

    “For now, it is Peter Robinson rather than Gerry Adams who has come in for the most ferocious coverage in the wake of the BBC Spotlight revelations back in January.

    “That such a story ever made to the public domain (the BBC committed considerable legal as well as editorial resources to the programme) is undoubtedly a sign of health and maturity within the political process.

    “Of course, there is a widely held (and well reasoned) presumption that what happened politically before Good Friday of 1998, would and should be consigned to the past.

    “As David Trimble once famously remarked, just because someone has a past does not mean they cannot have a future.

    “But Adams’ allegations against his brother had little or nothing to do with politics. Yet, along with his own structured evasions on the question of the precise nature of their relationship, this case received little of the forensic follow up a politician in his senior position might expect elsewhere.”

  • jtwo

    Perhaps UTV thought it was more important to spunk their money away on IFNC pilots rather than paying Chris Moore to do a follow-up?

  • Rory Carr

    No, jtwo, none of the “media outlet[s] in Ireland” quoted above, or indeed any other as far as I am aware, have “report[ed] recently that Gerry Adams was responsible for the murder of a mother of ten”.

    They have reported on a conclusion reached by Antony McIntyre and Ed Moloney folowing upon McIntyre’s interview with Brendan Hughes in which Hughes, in a rambling account, is led by McIntyre into somehow attributing the order for Mrs McConville’s death and disappearance solely to Gerry Adams. Despite McIntyre’s prodding, Hughes fails to do this as a close reading of the transcipt reveals.

    The papers tend to centre on Adams’s denial of involvement or upon the story of the declared intent of Mrs McConville’s daughter to sue Adams – not a prospect likely of success, I would suggest, if she intends to rely on Moloney’s book as her source of evidence.

    But I do take the main thrust of your post which is that the media can hardly be accused of being backward in their attempts to place a very unflattering limelight upon Adams and perhaps it is their apparent failure to be seen to be as relentless in that pursuit as the stalwarts of Slugger O’Toole that has informed this thread.

  • Mick Fealty

    Boys you are losing perspective here. As FJH notes there are two stories here: Gladys covers the problems of the unacknowledged past here:

    http://www.gladysganiel.com/victims/gerry-adams-the-troubles-the-truth/

    There’s not much a journo can do about the lack of candour itself, but as I pointed out above, getting the Mrs Robinson story took opportunity AND journalistic (not to mention legal) enterprise.

    Maybe it is just good old fashioned fear?

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Rory Carr,
    Correct.
    But theres an element of hypocrisy within the Media….in the name of the “Greater Good”.
    In order for the Peace Process to work, it was deemed necessary in Government/Media and probably public circles to bring the “extremes” in from the cold and put them at the very heart of the process.
    It was deemed wrong to shine too much of a spotlight on the “past”
    Alas for the Govt and Media….this worked TOO well and the “extremes” are now in charge.
    Therefore the need to support the “centre” the Media brings up a past before the Peace Process. And are a little peeved that the Public are not taking too much notice.

    Its a parody of Rudyard Kiplings Ode to Tommy Atkins. Rather unfortunately for the Media, too many journalists sold their souls to get to be “players”.
    Now………the Public wont buy them dredging up stories which they really should have been covering twenty years ago.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Mr Fealty…..of course there are many more than two Adams stories…..McConville is potentially more “real” than the “child abuse by association” nonsense.
    Theres plenty out there for the enterprising journo to get his teeth into….the choreography after the McCartney murder, La Mon, Bloody Friday thats real enough.
    But what exactly do the Media actually do?
    Rightly or wrongly the IRA are at the very heart of government. The Media bought into Creative Ambiguity.
    It ill behoves any of them to say 12 years after it mattered.
    1….Gerry Adams might have been in IRA
    and
    2 ..He might have done some bad stuff.
    and
    3…we journalists knew nothing/everything (delete as applicable).

  • RepublicanStones

    As Rory states the media haven’t been as zealous in their pursuit of Adams as faculty here at Slugger have been. Indeed I agree Adams’ ride has been relatively light given the nature of the offence (less the Dark’s finger pointing from the grave)

    That said, what explains this? Surely its a number of things. And just thinking out loud, but would respective personalities play a part? If Punt’s dismissive tone recently seen is not entirely out of left field….? Of course Adams’ new dislike of smart women won’t endear him to the hacks. Of course only the hacks know if the above fits.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Ive not been around much over the last three weeks or so….and I missed out on Adams losing it with a Reporter…one of our local Glendas.
    Surely the point is that there are three different kinds of Journalist (I use the term loosely)
    1 Those in Public Service Broadcasting with a particular standard to uphold.
    2 Those in our (local) newspapers, ethical within the limitations of editorial policy
    3 what might be described as the Blogosphere where ethical standards are replaced by folks with an agenda.

  • Mick Fealty

    Might fear also be a factor?

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Mr Fealty,
    Fear of legal issues?
    Fear in a physical sense?

    No idea on the former. My assumption has always been that Sinn-Féin in government and the IRA on ceasefire (or disbanded as we are told) is not a coincidence.
    SF can deliver the IRA so it takes no great leap of faith on my part to believe that there is at least a connexion between the two. And that leading personalities have a history so to speak.

    I dont see any reason why journos should be afraid of Republicans on ceasefire while some cosy up to those who arent and then plead fear when asked to reveal sources.
    And it is also rather obvious that some of the things said about Gerry Adams and others on this Board are rather more offensive than anythinga newspaper would publish….

    Unless of course who think that Sluggers team and commentators are braver than mainstream journos.

    There is too much coyness about “republican activists” and Sinn Féin and there is a need to get the History right.

    When speaking of “volunteers”, Republicans are speaking of the Dead.
    Those who speak of themselves as “ex prisoners” are speaking in code. They were “volunteers” too.
    The rest call themselves “activists”……a little honesty would not go amiss.

    Some journalists obviously play up the fact that the former terrorists are in some way “fearsome” as it contributes to the myth making of fearless Norn Iron journalism rather than journalism that is/was complicit in agendas.

  • Neil

    Why has the media gone easy over Adams?

    What a pertinent question. Perhaps they have asked the probing questions, received the pertinent answer and, much to the dissappointment of some bloggers, they journos haven’t repeated the same questions over and over and over.

    Adams and Robinson have had stories in the press, they’ve both been asked straight questions based around facts that the press has gotten hold of. They’ve answered the questions. Just because the journalists aren’t like imperinent children, refusing to accept their answer and re-asking the same, already answered question until Adams cracks up should surprise no-one.

    If someone asked you a question, didn’t believe you then hassled you with the same question repeatedly, you’d tell them to f*** off. Why? Because the repeated assertion that you are a liar without proof is, well, rude and unpleasant.

    The fact that some bloggers here refuse to accept the answer given because they don’t particularly like it (coincidentally enough all unionist bloggers) means that they think the media has gone easy on Adams, simply because if they were journalists they would accuse him of lying and repeat their questions.

    Incidentally I’m also curious, fear of what? Physical fear as in of violence? I seriously doubt that.

  • The child abuse allegations were presented by the press but, so far as I know only investigated by the Tribune. Far from being ‘nonsense’ these may well be the most serious allegations GA has to face. Protecting a brother and family is one thing, allowing that brother to work with children is another. In addition GA is allegedly implicated in the cover up of rape.

    The media has always been soft on republicanism, mainly because the liberal branch support it, and the conservative branch (whats left of them), however much they dislike S/F, reflect the UK disinterest in the north as a whole.

    As for the murder of Jean McConville, it makes no difference whether a transmitter was or was not found. Mr Hughes said there was, but who put it there. I do not believe Mrs McConville had the time, the privacy or the ability to be an informer.

    I see GAs membership or not of the IRA, far from being worth serious investigation as so obvious, the continual denials are, as many of us are quick to take advantage of, laughable.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    pippakin,
    Whatever the allegations….rightly or wrongly nobody outside the Overclass/chattering classes cares enough NOT to vote for Adams.
    Again the Overclass so quick to accept the Brendan Hughes (ex OC of Belfast Brigade, via OC 2nd Battn, via OC D Coy) is accurate source ……negates the transmitter as irrelevant.
    The point is that to Hughes and to his superiors it WOULD have been relevant…even if you or I dont see it that way.
    As much as Moloney and the Slugger favourite who was impressed by Hughes would like to see it as a callous murder…..Hughes actually provides validation for these actions to those who choose to see it that way.

  • FJH

    GA will be elected by his constituents for the same reason people will go to church on Sunday: It could not possibly be true of ‘their priest/politician’. In addition GA has the advantage of no serious electoral opposition. There will, eventually, be a trial and if his brother pleads not guilty the truth will emerge.

    Brendan Hughes is another matter. He was implicated in the murder of Jean McConville. It was a sadistic act carried out with no care for her or her children. He, as much as any S/F supporter needed to believe she was an informer. It did not have to make sense.

  • old school

    It’s not just the Media who’ve “gone easy” on Adams.
    The PSNI have admitted they have not investigated the claims made in Moloney’s book. Compare this to the arrest of Breen simply for receiving a claim of responsibility.
    They also had to be forced, kicking and screaming to issue an arrest warrant for Adams brother.
    Another relative of Adams carried out a murder in 2001 in front of his neighbours in broad daylight. He has yet to be even questioned.
    Adams involvement in 40 years at the top of the Provos didn’t even bring him as much as a day in court for traffic offences or non payment of a T.V licence.
    It’s one thing the media not digging, but when his allies in the PSNI turn the other way, you know the system is broke.

  • old school

    Has the British Government announced their intentions to finance the Civil Action against Adams brought by ther Mc Convilles?
    Why did they finance the civil action against Mc Kevitt but not Adams?
    Is there some kind of pecking order?

  • old school

    If the PSNI are failing to investigate allegations about Gerry Adams and/or his family, that ‘failure’ will last just as long as he is useful.

    I think his ‘use by’ date is fast approaching.

  • old school

    He is extemely important to British interests and strategy in Ireland.
    He’ll not be going anywhere fast.

  • old school

    The difference between McKevitt and Adams is:

    I think Peter Mandelson… they should give funding, but I doubt they will.

  • old school

    He was extremely important. Do you really believe he still is? McGuinness is the best hope we have for a permanent peace. If he acts, and he must be thinking about it. I think GA will have to take early retirement. At which point the dogs are loose.

  • slug

    Basically the peace process deal seems to be that we all go easy on Adams in return for him (and his gang) going easy on us.

  • Michaelhenry

    gerry adams is still here and walking our streets old school, unlike the armed british army, is this the reason you do not like the one who leads.

  • slug

    Or, better the devil you know.

  • old school

    Pipakin you’re asking me to believe there is some wide gulf between Adams and Mc Guinness.
    Replacing Adams with Mc G will not end the sweet deals, the corruption, and 2 way collusion.
    PSF is like Karzais crowd in Afghanistan.
    Both led by (bearded)media savvy leaders, who are Both funded by America and Britain.
    Both highly corrupt. Both syphon political money for personal use.
    Both collude with the occupying forces.
    Both are allowed to get away with criminality and rackets in “the name of the better good”.

  • old school

    “The difference between Mc Kevitt and Adams is…Mandelson” Pippakin.
    I envy your innocence.
    It’s about being the leader of the wrong type of IRA.
    Justice for victims comes second or even last.

  • old school

    McGuinness is quite popular, he has some respect among unionists and no on has yet accused him of covering up child abuse and rape.

    I believe all our little ‘foibles’ eventually catch up with us. It makes no difference if your name is Adams, McGuinness or even Robinson.

    We have to keep the peace going. Do you think GA would be in the trouble he is if we were still fighting?

  • old school

    “Do you think GA would be in the trouble he is if we were still fighting?”
    Pippakin, there are touts who offered to testify against Adams and Mc Guinness at the height of the troubles.
    The Crown refused stating “in the interests of National Security”.
    These guys have never been in trouble.
    It’s a bit like the mystery of Arafat, and why he was never assasinated by Mossad or taken out by an Apache.
    Israelis would kill a ten year old for throwing a stone, yet never killed Arafat. Their fear was killing Arafat would leave the field open for a Hamas type leader.
    The British use the same logic regarding Adams and Mc Guinness. Therefore they have a licence to do practically anything.

  • Michaelhenry

    the wrong type of i.r.a, oh you mean the real, those who do not kill cops, you will have to wait some while for breen to write that story.

  • old school

    Still baiting for a response, michael?
    Are you looking for a prosecution or something?

  • old school

    All govts will make use of someone for as long as they are useful! If GA is implicated, and the reappearance of the allegations about his brother is not a good sign for him, then they will at best retire him. It is not a question of right IRA or wrong RIRA or whatever. It is a question of usefulness.

    Omagh was different. To get legal aid for a private prosecution the Brits had to ‘stretch’ the law, that was Mandelson. So far as I know the law has not been changed: there is no legal help for a private prosecution.

  • old school

    “Stretching the law” for political gain, and furthering the State’s agenda.
    You can’t cherrypick atrocities….unless you’re a Brit Minister of course.

  • old school

    You cant cherrypick atrocities?

    No I would not, but all govts do, not just the Brits though they may, in the recent past, have ‘overlooked’ more than most.

    It is, and has always been, whatever works.

  • Michaelhenry

    a truthful answer would be nice.

  • Mick Fealty

    FJH,

    Did you read the Newsletter article?

    My point was that neither of these two men are used to the level of scrutiny they are being subjected to as a result of being part of the new democratic dispensation. That’s tough, they’ll have to get used to it. As you point out, the difference is that Robinson’s constituency actually cares about his transgressions, Adams’ appears not. Though when some of the difficult stories are only partially reported, then it is likely to have only partial effects.

    In fact you are completely wrong in your treatment of the two issues. The Hughes accusations are historic, and not new. Certainly, the misery suffered by the family is current, but much of that subject matter is covered by the unspoken amnesty which is at least implied with the signing of the Belfast and other subsequent agreements.

    However the Liam Adams case is considerably more serious – and without making any accusations (or allowing them be made for me on my behalf) – raises a number of important public safety questions: not all of them, by any means, answerable by Mr Adams himself.

    See Pete’s faithfully recorded timeline: http://url.ie/5p2f

  • Mick Fealty

    Given the trenchant nature of the comment earlier in this thread, I am genuinely surprised there’s been no response…

  • seandubh

    Journalist or afraid of losing thier jobs,no trouble no news.So invent conspiraces at least those that wrote a book have an nest egg.They will not go back to the Duke of York pub sitting in the back room,phonong for their stories,or getting the result from windsor park.Most journalist base a story on hearsay,to lazy to work,maybe they should join the prison service.

  • clancy

    Mick, why would the media fear at this point in the game that any dirt on Adams endagers the peace process? A decade ago that may have been legitimate with a fully armed (and active) IRA.

    In 2010, even though the dissident threat is probably greater than its ever been, I don’t see how an Adams “retirement” would have a direct correlation to street violence one way or the other. Or why anyone, in the media or otherwise, would think so.

    Nor have the media exactly shown much reticence in going after Adams. A couple years ago Liam Clarke, not exactly a minor figure in the field, seemed to be trying to create his own news story with months of articles about how Adams seemed “tired” and not being particulary relevant anymore with McGuinness as deputy FM. And has Ed Moloney’s books and articles over the years been intended to actually cement Adam’s position?

  • seandubh

    I have to agrre ye journalist know nothing

  • FitzjamesHorse

    No Mr Fealty, I didnt read the News Letter.
    Id be surprised if many of Mr Adams constituents have either.
    It wont matter to them. The allegations wont cost him a single vote.
    Neither will the McConville case.
    Neither will La Mon.
    Neither will Bloody Friday.
    Neither will “selling out” dissidents.
    The Overclass in the Media dont like it. But I strongly suspect that he will be re-elected next month.

  • FJH

    I agree he will be elected next month. It will not be enough to save him.

    Parliament has one of those quaint old traditions for dealing with MPs facing criminal charges…

    It does not get better with the election: it gets worse.

  • Mick Fealty

    FJH,

    It is linked it above, so you don’t need to buy the paper.

    To save you the time, it’s a piece about the media, the closed nature of our democratic institutions, and a given weakness in that media’s generally useful liberal bias. It has very little to do with who people do or do not vote for.

    Since I have argued strongly in favour of all of your statements, both in this thread and in the original piece (which you have not taken the time to read), it would be good to know who exactly you think you are having this ‘conversation’ with?.

  • GavBelfast

    Is the average Unionist-inclined voter ‘fussier’ about the values / morals of theirrepresentatives than the average republican-inclined voter?

    I suppose the outcomes of of votes for those connected with scandal in particular, and their parties generally, may give a guide to this.

  • Mick Fealty

    I’m not sure Gav. There could be the old cultural differences at play there: about Protestant determination to differentiate from his neighbour. Great for democracy, but low political pain threshold.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Mr Fealty,
    I didnt even know I was having a conversation. Besides Im at an age where I really only talk to myself LOL

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Mr Fealty,
    Having now read the article.
    “Liberal bias” no.
    Id say there was an understandable careerism involved in many of the stories.
    “Spotlight” and the rest are looking for the next big story…..probably awards season …its always awards season in journalism………somebody else flying out to Finland where fighting dogs have been bred……..whatever.

    But theres a feeling that Chris Moore needs to be trumped. So lets get out there and get a story. There might be a spin off book deal in some stories. Maybe there is already.
    There is effectively as you observe a veil drawn over anything pre-1998 “dont mention the war” and if journos were thinking of a Greater Good then that was the time.
    But frankly was all the IRA stuff not known before 1998. Those of us with very long memories recall the Sunday Times Insight articles circa 1970/71 where all the leading paramilitaries were named.
    We have the modern knowledge that Taoiseach Sean Lemass was actually a killer in the “War of Independence”. Frank Aiken? Did it cost them a vote.
    Likewise Gerry Adams….and severeal members are believed….er allegedly etc etc. No votes lost. And paradoxically Hughes claims that Adams was involved and that McConville was in some way “guilty” actually helps Adams case……with those who are convinced anyway.

    Yet your comment about the BBC being “hygenic” (did you mean “sensitive”) in cases of rape seems odd. Thats a perfect time for sensitivity. We are talking of a family tragedy as well as the public interest.
    Robbos attempts to turn a matter of public interest into a family tragedy seem to have backfired. “My wife is ill” taken as slightly too convenient.

    Indeed maybe thats the difference in the stories isnt it?
    One is BASICALLY Family Tragedy portrayed as Public Interest. And Adams constituents are showing no signs of buying the Media line. Are they wrong? Surely a matter of judgement.
    The other is BASICALLY Public Interest portrayed as Family Tragedy. Is one set of constituents buying it (East Belfast) and the other (Strangford) rejecting it? Their judgement.

    Your suggestion that the Media have some kinda dilemna about saying the Truth will bring dow the Peace Process……well maybe there just isnt any evidence. If there is….Publish and be damned.

    It was a old cliche that all Tory scandals were sex (Archer, Profumo) and all Labour scandals were finance based (Stonehouse)…..maybe we have a version here.

    The “Catholic”thing is sexual .family….confessional….secretive.
    The “Protestant” thing is all about being blessed by Gods bounty and the rustle of big cheques in collections…….maybe thats how its seen in West Belfast and East Belfast.
    The athiestic Overclass wont see it that way.

  • I am amazed that anyone could describe allegations of incest, child abuse (different child), rape and the cover up of all of it, as solely a ‘family tragedy’.

    It is probably true that hardline supporters will continue to support and believe, at least until the allegations are proven or not in court. Such loyalty does not extend to all nationalists or independents.

  • Alias

    It’s a false comparison to compare the Provos to the IRA. The actual IRA acted to assert the right of the Irish nation to self-determination in the [i]absence[/i] of that right and in the absence of alternative means. They were acting to establish an Irish nation-state for a sovereign nation. That is legitimate political militancy.

    The Provos, on the other hand, could not have been acting to assert the right of the Irish nation to self-determination since this right had already been asserted and obtained by the Irish nation. Instead, they acted in direct violation of the right of the Irish nation to self-determination which had been asserted by the sovereign Irish nation within its nation-state to peruse unity by exclusively peaceful means. Ergo, they were in engaged in illegitimate political acts that were properly classified by the Irish state’s law and the international community’s law as criminal acts.

    Likewise, Frank Aiken later administered Irish rule and took a hard-line against those former comrades who challenged the legitimacy of Irish rule, whereas the defeated murder gang now administers British rule, and would like to take a hard-line against those who challenge the legitimacy of British rule.

    Unlike the actual IRA, the Provos rejected the right to the Irish nation to self-determination, declaring that that right was the sole property of smugglers, kneecappers and capos which could be traded for rewards from the British state. Ergo, the Provos led their tribe to formally renounce their right to Irish self-determination, give up their right to a nation-state, and to settle down as a non-sovereign nation within a legitimised British state.

    In regard to Hughes, the brainwashing of the cult is impressive. We had the Shinners demanding of those who denied that Mrs McConville gave information to the British state (never mind the irony of this charge being made by its collaborators) that they either accept the veracity all of what Hughes claimed or none of it. It never occurred to them to follow their own logic and accept that Gerry Adams must then be guilty as alleged. That brainwashing which has reduced the supporters of the Shinners to illogical idiots was an absolutely essential part of the British state agenda of getting them to agree to renounce their national rights and accept the legitimacy of British sovereignty while telling them that they were doing the exact opposite.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    pippakin…..Id also be amazed if anyone would describe Incest, Rape, Child abuse as solely a family tragedy.
    Which is why of course I described it as “BASICALLY a family tragedy”. Perhaps the charitable view is that you missed the emphasis.

  • Mick Fealty

    FJH,

    No, I did mean ‘hygenic’, but I was talking about one very specific case when the IRA were given a rebuttal to claims that the Beeb never made public. Which in anyone’s reckoning has to be extremely odd, surely?

  • FJH

    Basically makes a difference does it? First time I have ever heard such charges dismissed so superciliously. The allegations also relate to two rapes and another case of child abuse.

    Perhaps you should direct your ‘charity’ to the correct quarter. Or do such victims not fit into a suitable ‘class’.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    pippakin,
    yes of course it makes a difference…..verbs, adjectives, adverbs, nouns…..all the rest ….a rich tapestry of language the better to make our points.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Mr Fealty,
    indeed that would be odd.
    But if the BBC gave a right of rebuttal to a terrorist organisation, isnt there a bigger story?

    Isnt the real story….that a terrorist organisation which we are assured by everyone doesnt actually exist………DOES exist?

    Now I am inclined to believe its true but why has our Media been somewhat reticent to say so. Are they all “embedded”?

  • old school

    This “Overclass” you refer to?
    Do they have private helicopters?
    Can you think of a single M.P anywhere in the Country or World who would not be investigated by the cops if a murder allegation was made??

  • FJH

    ‘A rich tapestry of language the better to make our points’.

    Indeed, so with such a feast of language before you, you said: ‘one is basically a family tragedy portrayed as public interest’.

    Wrong. It is not basically a ‘family tragedy’ one child was, allegedly, abused by her father, another was, allegedly abused by a S/F member. Two girls were, allegedly, raped. All were, allegedly, covered up by GA and others. It adds up to a great deal more than: ‘basically a family tragedy’.

    The above allegations, along with the sadistic murder of Jean McConville are the most serious accusations GA and through him S/F face.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    No but they seem the type that might be jealous of Gerry Adams having one.
    I daresay that if someone went into a police station and made an allegation of serious crime including murder, the police would investigate it.

    Im not actually sure that the Police are obliged to go into Easons and buy a book to look for a murder allegation. Or indeed an Internet Message Board.
    But if anyone has evidence to support an allegation of ANY criminal activity……..murder, attempted murder, bombs in railway lines etc…..old or new…….I happily call on them to go to the nearest police station. And I am happy that you endorse my view. Dont ya?

  • old school

    FJH, they arrested Gerry Mc Geough, after claims were made in a T.V documentary.
    They arrested Suzanne Breen simply for receiving a claim of responibility.
    They arrested Gary Donnelly after they broke his arm.
    They jailed Mc Kevitt on the word of a supergrass who was described by Gardai in Court as untrustworthy.
    They jailed Terrence Mc Cafferty for 15 months on evidence we weren’t allowed to see.
    Believe me they can arrest when they feel like it. Or when told to by MI5.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Well Im still glad you support people being arrested and charged for murders such as Massarene last year……lets agree on that.

    Gerry McGeough……couldnt care less.
    Breen arressted for witholding information or whatever.
    Gary Donnelly……the man who didnt want an ASBO.
    McKevitt……interned????
    Havent a clue who Terrence McCafferty is. Dont bother telling me. Cos I still wont care.