A scare? Its serious

After the coverage of Friday’s bombscares several commentators responded thus:

“Yes that brave Irish freedom fighter who stepped onto that treacherous bus with the dangerous crowd of pensioners truly deserves to walk to the dole office to collect his British pounds with his head held high”

“I must say, the ‘traffic jams for Irish unity’ campaign isn’t doing much for me.”

“All these security alerts are basically anti-social behaviour and shows that republican dissidents are much more like their “homie” friends in Brixton than their apologists would have us believe.”

However, despite these flippant dismissals – this incident where crown forces came under fire dealing with a bomb claim outside Newry indicates, while the initial claim may not be dangerous, the intent is very much there.

  • Justin Case…

    Thanks for the quote 🙂

    I still think they are a pack of cowards though. Anyone can shoot a nicked gun from the provies.

  • Coll Ciotach

    here is a real scare – told ritchie has declared for Westminster

  • Michaelhenry

    were still not told why the real who have killed no cops in there 13 year history are discribed has hardline,mybe some in the media can tell us.

  • lamhdearg

    michael3.”were still not told why the real who have killed no cops in there 13 year history are discribed has hardline” I think/assume/hope that when posting this you are not wishing they had, But it reads that way.

  • Michaelhenry

    id have a long wait if i was wishing this lamhdearg.

  • old school

    Michael regularly claims the RIRA and the PSNI are in fact allies, probably out to destroy Sinn Feins glorious march to power.
    No doubt there’ll be dead cops and Brits all over the place if Michael ever gets disillussioned with da process.

  • lamhdearg

    old school
    Dont want to sound a cheaky bas**** or a smart ass, with THE process,unless your Jayz or somit like.

  • Michaelhenry

    ill never get disilussioned,the truth hurts old school.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Im also grateful for the quote.
    But with respect Mr McGregor it was you that brought the Chief Constables comparison with Brixton to our attention.
    As you have already stated that the killing of that guy in Derry was a “murder” and you like me…..Im sure would agree that the killings in March last year were murder (you can of course disassiciate yourself from my condemnation……or maybe you dont do “condemnation journalism”…….we are actually agreeded that the republican dissidents are dangerous……in my case I think they are dangerous scum.

    Yet you feel strangely enthused that some dissident types got their act together long enough to fire off a few shots.
    That obviously has to be taken seriously but as you Mr McGregor take them almost as seriously as they take themselves, I feel no great compulsion to think of them as anything other than a bunch of anti social misfits in search of an ASBO.
    A group of psychopaths deserves to be taken seriously but NOT as a political or paramilitary force

    Their demand that they be taken seriously…..and your pleas that they be taken seriously just doesnt wash with me.

    But perhaps RIRA, CIRA could adopt a new name “RWA” (Republicans With Attitude) perhaps. And maybe some cute names…like P O’Diddy, or 50EuroCent…or Snoopy MacDog.
    They already have their groupies and FanGirl websites.

    They are a JOKE……a dangerous joke.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    And Mr McGregor,
    Dont forget to close down comments when you start to look a bit stupid.

  • Alias

    “A group of psychopaths deserves to be taken seriously but NOT as a political or paramilitary force”

    True, but it is too late for lamentations now that they are the second largest party in NI.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Alias,
    You could say that…I couldnt possibly comment LOL

  • old school

    Fitz, I don’t get your criticisms of Mark for simply reporting events on the ground.
    It seems because he doesn’t write absolutely pointless post after post, referring to the IRA as “scum”,”criminals” “gangsters” etc, he is deemed as a fellow traveller of the IRA.
    This is almost Mc Carthyism.
    Robert Fisk gives an insight into the ideologogy of Islamists, and has tried to explain what drives Bin Laden, yet it’s a stretch to say he’s an Al Qaeda sympathiser.
    By the way MI5 has descibed the threat from Irish separatists as more active and worrying than British Islamists. But you know best. They’re just “misfits in need of an asbo”.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Oh I wouldnt assume that Mr McRegor is a fellow traveller of the (Real) IRA or any other RWA ASBO seeking group.
    You will note that I have gone out of my way to give him the opportunity to say that he isnt.
    “Taking the fifth” would be the parallel for “almost” McCarthyism that you are searching for.

  • Michaelhenry

    old school is now saying that the dissidents are more hardline than al qaeada,the dissidents killed no one in england so how did you come up with this one.

  • old school

    I didn’t say it, Michael. Gerry’s speechwriters said it.

  • old school

    Fitz, would you prefer everybody started each post with,
    “I condemn the RIRA but…..”
    Your post #14 is straight from the Mc Carthy era.
    “I have given him the opportuntiy to say that he isn’t” Jeez, thanks.

  • Michaelhenry

    old school,old hand, you said it.

  • aquifer

    It seems the Irish people are allowed to work to pay sectarian separatist street gangs, but their time at home with their children is to be strictly limited.

    Irish police personnel will spend even less time with their families, and may not get home at all ever.

    And if you have family and interests both sides of the border, forget it.

    This ‘campaign’ is self-indulgent sadistic crap.

    These people should be ashamed of themselves.

  • Michaelhenry

    god knows why but they have to be seen has hardline aguifer, every body is after them,they take themselves very serious.

  • padraig

    There were probably cows in fields near were they opened up fire in Newry and these cowards who were outnumbered several times over by the forces arrayed against them, could probably have missed what they were aiming for and killed some, and possibly there was a bus load of pensioners driving in the vicinity who might have heard the shots and taken a heart attack and and and I know there are schools full of kids around there somewhere….and then they probably done something awful afterwards like watching East Enders and collecting the dole, the rotten lot.

    As Martin says they are a lot of traitors, why don’t they go up to Stormont and sign on as British Ministers and work hard collecting a large British wage like loyal, decent regular Republicans do. The traitorous, treacherous lot.

    Them poor cows.

  • Skintown Lad

    As Fitzjames says above, the fact that a group is dangerous does not mean you have to take their views seriously.

    But then that’s what republicanism has traditionally been about isn’t? Trying to rule by fear and oppression, all the while claiming the Brits are the oppressors. Well ask those affected by this incident, the ordinary commuters etc, who do they feel is most oppressing them? The Brits or the ‘dissidents’?

  • granni trixie

    For the record I gave considerable time pre 1994 ceasefires to campaigning against the actions of paramilitaries. And before you say it, I have also in my time given attention to bringing about change in state systems too.

    I completely disagree with posts here claiming that expressions of opposition to the IRAs actions can in any way be defined as McCarthyism. You would be better served to define them as part of the struggle for legitimacy.

    Is it a witch hunt to express opposition rather than let a violent history be repeated whilst we all sit on our hands watching?

  • FitzjamesHorse

    SkintownLad,
    The SF-IRA analysis that the British were the oppressors has to some extent been endorsed at recent elections.
    Rightly or wrongly they “won” that argument…..at least among those that they were trying to convince.
    To some extent the British did not exactly undermine the SF-IRA position by on occasions acting in an oppressive manner.
    Internment, Bloody Sunday, the H Blocks all at various times gave credence to the IRA position……and again I emphasise …among those they were trying to convince.
    The dissidents are trying the same tactic that worked in the 1970s and 1980s and doing it in a totally different political/security context.

    Therefore they are playing up the “injustices” of the PSNI……and quite rightly nobody is listening to them.
    In a way its amusing to listen to the old cliches which I myself now spout “have these bast***s no jobs to go to?”
    Well in a broader sense these dissidents are just about the only peopl who dont have a stake in “the system” so its not fertile ground for their crap.
    Of course the other cliche that “99.9 % support the system” is seductive. When Faulkner spouted that in the early 1970s……and Whitelaw, Rees, Atkins, etc have all spouted a variation, it led to the inevitable question of how so few could intimidate so many.
    The dissidents are in a time warp where it is still the mid 1970s and I expect in their pathetic world, it will always be “Ashes to Ashes”. The good old days.
    A bit like the Amish in Western Pennsylvania who dont drive cars, there will be dissidents in 200 years. They could even be a tourist attraction.
    “The craic we had the day we died for Ireland” (Ding Dong Denny O’Reilly).
    Alas the rest of us have moved on.

  • coconnor

    My point, as quoted, was not a commentary on the ability of these groups to cause disruption or even kill.

    My point was that a day comprising primarily of hoax bomb scares intended to cause widespread traffic disruption can’t really be said to be moving us even one step towards Irish unity.

    In fact, it probably alienates potential supporters whose businesses suffered as a result of this strange campaign.

    Of course, I don’t think shooting at the police or military, or detonating bombs outside courthouses bring us towards unity either.

    The only legitimate way we can achieve a successful united Ireland without a British state presence is through a democratic process which seeks to reassure the unionist community that such an outcome is not a threat to them.

    Shootings and bombs (hoax or otherwise) will not help one bit in that regard.

  • Skintown Lad

    Fitzjames, I’m glad you went on to clarify in your post above that the examples you gave of British ‘oppression’ happened a long time ago, before some of the present protagonists were even born, and that they do not provide justification now.

    I have my doubts about this:

    “The SF-IRA analysis that the British were the oppressors has to some extent been endorsed at recent elections.
    Rightly or wrongly they “won” that argument…..at least among those that they were trying to convince.”

    SF-IRA success in elections began only when they called a halt to their own form of oppression. That is an endorsement of the analysis that SF-IRA’s form of oppression was wrong, since it was evidently a turn-off to many of the voters they have now wooed since 1994. That itself is an acknowledgement from the electorate that the British were not the only oppressor in the piece, and the GFA was further acknowledgement that by that stage British oppression was largely historical. Therefore, my point still stands, ask the electorate, who (now) is the oppressor? The dissidents who ignore the will of the people, or the British who are bending over backwards to be invisible and have as little impact on ordinary people’s lives as possible?

  • FitzjamesHorse

    I never claimed they provided objective justification, merely that it was accepted by the people they were trying to convince.
    Five SF-IRA MLAs in West Belfast for example.
    And as SF is currently outvoting SDLP we can assume that majority of voters prefer one analsis to the other.
    While they have been wooing voters as SF from basically cease fire time pre 1998….my point is that the aftermath of Hunger Strikers was actually the time that SF-IRA got involved politically thru “Independents” etc. Eg Sands himself

  • Skintown Lad

    “I never claimed they provided objective justification, merely that it was accepted by the people they were trying to convince.”

    Like yours, my comment about justification was also from the point of view of the voters SF-IRA were trying to convince. The fact that SF’s vote rose when the IRA (sort of) gave up violence indicates that those new voters had diasgreed with the use of violence; an ethical barrier to them voting for SF had been removed. I don’t think that ethical barrier would have existed in the mind of those new voters had they still (by the 90s) really felt themselves to be oppressed by the British. Even less so now.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Its also generation. Fifteen years or more have elapsed since there was any meaningful violence. Realistically people undr 30 have no real understanding of violence.