Such a parcel of rogues…

We’ve now had former US President George Bush Jnr [reportedly at the instigation of US economic envoy to Northern Ireland, Declan Kelly], and Ian Paisley Snr join in the campaign by, amongst others, Sinn Féin’s Martin McGuinness and the NIO and NI Secretary of State Shaun Woodward, to try to pressurise the UUP into toe-ing the DUP/SF party line on tomorrow’s vote on devolving policing and justice powers. Nice to see old comrades working together again… To, apparently, little effect…

The Ulster Unionist executive has endorsed the party’s decision to vote against the devolution of policing and justice powers to Northern Ireland.

Adds I think it’s worth adding a comment I made below

I’ve noted the US involvement here previously.

And it has been positive at times.

Particularly when they had leverage over certain parties.

But my feeling is that, this time, they’re being mis-briefed by other players.

, , , ,

  • iluvni

    Lets hope there’s no last minute UUP change of mind either.

  • Impartial Reporter

    UUP Executive vote a unanimous no to the current Executive being able to manage policing and Justice.

    DUP sees strain placed on the party as the ‘super six’ MLA group consider whether they can abstain tomorrow or will they have to keep to their word, vote no and throw their lot in with the TUV.

    The power base for Unionism is shifting (again) Will the bold Peter be able to keep his act together?

    The next 72 hours are going to see some strange happenings with the folks on the Hill.

  • Brian Walker

    Them damned furriners just don’t know their Ulstermen. Glad you’re getting so much enjoyment out of it, Pete. I must admit that Hillary awakened a bit of the old Adam in me too. What on earth has it got to do with the Americans?

  • Dec

    What on earth has it got to do with the Americans?

    Yeah Brian, they can stick their inward investment up their arse!

  • alan56

    No surprise. There is nothing in it for UUP to vote ‘yes’. Politics is about doing deals. Am hearing that UUP tried but were re-buffed.

  • alan56

    The focus now shifts to those in the DUP who have their reservations

  • Impartial Reporter

    Interesting to note that Alliance got hwat they wanted (progress for ‘Shared Future’) but UUP are not deemed necessary to the process and therefore get ignored.

    Dangerous games if DUP are hoping to push through the vote without the ‘super six’.

    Amazing how quickly after the leaving of the Doc that the wheels have come off the wagon.

    New leader required for the DUP. UUP need to keep their new-found spine if they want to gain from this.

  • scarecrow

    What on earth has it got to do with the Americans?

    ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    And the British? Is Brian in favour of ulster independence? lol

    You are right though it is great fun, I hope they tear it down.

  • Kevsterino

    Brian, when you asked what it has to do with the Americans, I had to laugh.

    We haven’t gone away, you know.

  • Pete Baker

    Brian

    I’ve noted the US involvement here previously.

    And it has been positive at times.

    Particularly when they had leverage over certain parties.

    But my feeling is that, this time, they’re being mis-briefed by other players.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I strongly disagree with the UUP decision, but it was wrong and misguided of the Americans to interfere on this occasion.

    Imagine Gordon Brown phoning up Senators in Congress and asking them to do the right thing over healthcare. It would be seen as patronizing and it would harden the minds of people anxious to demonstrate that they are their own men, not subject to outside intervention.

    Although, I’m reminded that American intervention in the past was usually when the NIO requested that they step in. I’d say Hilary’s phonecalls took place on their request.

  • Harry J

    DUP sees strain placed on the party as the ‘super six’ MLA group consider whether they can abstain tomorrow ……………

    all DUP mlas will be present and voting FOR the deal, the UUP have just hung themselves out to dry, they are now with the TUV

  • alan56

    I suppose then that the UUp can take some credit for DUP unity. Was that the plan?

  • Harry J

    THe UUP are left either campaigning as anti-agreements or meekly coming on board at a later date.

    Watch for a DUP/SF deal on education that fantastically EXCLUDES the Ulster Unionists

  • alan56

    harry j
    now that will be interesting

  • Harry J

    take away the UUP constant argument about education and they have nothign, especially with REg and Margaret being in charge of the working group designed to speed up excutive decision making.

    The UUP have been robbed blind and they still dont know it

  • alan56

    Still put the question. What do UUP lose?

  • Harry J

    they lose credibility within their own electorate, the UUP have aligned themselves with the TUV as well as blown a hole in the CU alliance – the Tories who are selected will be over this deal like a rash while the UUs will have to denounce it.

    Most UU supporters are middle of the road and will be happy to see stormont moving on, especailly when a deal on education is done they will wonder what wee reg was on about.

  • GFASupporterButRealist

    Pressure from Bush or Hillary has the OPPOSITE effect on the UUs. Declan Kelly, a Southern Irish P.R. mogul just doesn’t get NI politics, clearly. By resisting the pressure from the US, the UUs win brownie points from their members. Hillary only has clout with SF; she has no cred with the UUs. Talk about ill thought out “strategy.” Yes, it’s nice to hope for inward investment in NI but where has it been in the past year ? And where is it going to be in the next year ? How much of this is all smoke-and-mirrors ? Where’s the beef ? i.e. where is the economic benefit for NI right now ? Not being cynical, just realistic. Let Mr. Kelly deliver. It’s hardly the best economic climate in the US or Ireland N or S to attract investment. NI politicians should not be coming out here in droves for March 17 (five NI Executive Ministers in Washington alone!) but doing the business in the Assembly and Executive on policing and justice, the 11-plus mess, water charges etc. Really.

  • Impartial Reporter

    Now why would an Alliance member disagree with the UUP decision?????

    Could you explain your logic as to why what is on the table now is more acceptable than what was on the table six months ago?

    I think the UUP have set themselves up for a global kicking – but this is something they seem to enjoy.

    I am more interested in seeing if any of the DUP naysayers have the balls to stand by their convictions or will they roll over to have their bellies tickled?

    Lord Morrow to Stand for the TUV?

    Dodds “Not in a political lifetime” to vote yes tomorrow?

    We live in interesting times.

  • alan56

    HJ
    If thats what happens the they could claim a result

  • Harry J

    but doing the business in the Assembly and Executive on policing and justice, the 11-plus mess, water charges etc. ………

    Policing and justice is being progressed , or havent you noticed.

    The 11 plus is gone, we have a new transfer test.

    Water charges are being deferred.

  • Harry J

    Could you explain your logic as to why what is on the table now is more acceptable than what was on the table six months ago?……..

    its £600 million better than 6 months ago, plus £20 million for RUC reserves, plus the scrapping of the parades comission.

  • Harry J

    #

    HJ
    If thats what happens the they could claim a result
    Posted by alan56 on Mar 08, 2010 @ 11:46 PM

    The UUPs own rhetoric iwll be used against them. They constantly claim to be excluded by the two parties so they will be and the DUP and SF will be shown to be making progress in time for westminster

  • Harry J

    Dodds “Not in a political lifetime” to vote yes tomorrow?

    Nigel actullay said no sinn fein minister in apolitical lifetime and even that quote is 3 years old.

    the DUP have a veto on the post. Looks like we could have an alliance Justice minister for a verrrrrrrrrrry long time

  • Impartial Reporter

    We have a new transfer test?

    Has anyone told the Minister?

    I know they say a week is a long time in politics but ‘not in th elifetime of this assembly’ is pretty clear.

    Nice one Nigel!

  • Harry J

    We have a new transfer test?

    Havent you noticed, thousands of children did and took it

    Thankfully its nothing to do with the minister and it worked very well without her.

  • Impartial Reporter

    Lord Morrow – the new darling of the TUV?

    Which other DUP heavy hitters are heading out the door now?

    And we haven’t even started on the whole first minister fiasco – I wonder who changed the rules to let that happen????

  • Harry J

    And we haven’t even started on the whole first minister fiasco – I wonder who changed the rules to let that happen???? –

    The labour party – try comparing the ST Andrews agreement with what the Labour party actually leglislated

  • Impartial Reporter

    Havent you noticed, thousands of children did and took it

    Thankfully its nothing to do with the minister and it worked very well without her.

    That’s what you mean by SF and DUP working together?

    So full of it Harry, you are going to spin yourself into a big hole.

  • Harry J

    So full of it Harry, you are going to spin yourself into a big hole. ..

    what you upset because the test isnt run by a bunch of underworked , overpaid civil servants?

    It works and thats all that matters – should have done it years ago

  • Impartial Reporter

    It own’t be done again if you listen to the minister.

    Having kids sit 4 different tests is a step forward?

    You are losing this one big time.

    And DUP couldn’t get their agreement of St Andrews through parliament without it being hijacked – That’s a party I can trust !!!!

  • Harry J

    It own’t be done again if you listen to the minister.

    Having kids sit 4 different tests is a step forward?

    if its a fairer test then yes.

    —————————–

    sounds like your only solution is not academic selection, something most parents wish to retain

  • Harry J

    It won’t be done again if you listen to the minister……….

    I think you ll find its a yearly thing, Get used to it

  • Impartial Reporter

    Speak to the parents who had to put their kids through four different tests and tell them it’s progress.

    This is the DUP mantra?

    what wonderful direction change comes next?

  • GFASupporterButRealist

    HJ, the actual policing and justice department is only agreed tomorrow, if the vote goes right and the minister will not be in office till next month. also, the details of p and j policy and legislation on it are still to be decided and that will be a political hot potato week by week and month by month as issues arise. of course i know the 11-Plus is over and an ad hoc mess is in place instead — that is why it needs to be formally agreed in legislation what this government will put in the place of the 11-Plus. as for water charges being “defered” this is simply kicking it into the long grass again. there is lots of unfinished business to finish.

  • Impartial Reporter

    DUP policy announcement on education

    “I think you ll find its a yearly thing, Get used to it “

  • Harry J

    “I think you ll find its a yearly thing, Get used to it “…

    that would be the transfer test, dont you know it happens every year?

  • Harry J

    ad hoc mess is in place instead………

    why is it a mess, the tests worked well. why do we need more leglislation? Let the schools take the lead not the civil servants

  • Impartial Reporter

    Spin Harry, Spin for the DUP and don’t worry about facts or truth.

    Six weeks, Six months, Six years – who’d have guessed it was option one all along?

  • Harry J

    as for water charges being “defered” this is simply kicking it into the long grass again..

    how so? it means paying for it out of the block grant each year. It isnt a mystery , no need for it to be put off or kicked into the long grass

    ITs either paid by taxation or the block grant. The DUP favour the block grant

  • Harry J

    Speak to the parents who had to put their kids through four different tests and tell them it’s progress……..

    of course no parent is FORCED to put their child into any test. Things would be worse if we listend to the minister and had no tests

  • Harry J

    Six weeks, Six months, Six years – who’d have guessed it was option one all along?

    and we got what we wnat bye bye parades comission, thanks for the extra £800 mill and £20 mill for the RUC. – Super

  • Nigel actullay said no sinn fein minister in apolitical lifetime and even that quote is 3 years old.

    3 years ago is hardly a political lifetime ago Harry.

    Or are quotes from that era no longer applicable?

    Anyhow, we can all look forward to a nice cosy SF policing & justice minister come 2011.

  • Pete Baker

    Guys

    Try to focus on what is actually happening.

    Rather than what you think/hope might happen in the future.

  • Frustrated Democrat

    HarryJ

    You are being economical with the truth.

    Did the DUP vote against the changes in the STA at any stage?

    Did the UUP and Conconservatives vote against the changes?

    You know the answer, the DUP failed to think things through as usual and when the other parties spotted the problem the DUP did not support them.

    So that was clearly another DUP mistake, will P&J add to the list?

  • Harry J

    Anyhow, we can all look forward to a nice cosy SF policing & justice minister come 2011

    how so?

  • Harry J

    Did the UUP and Conconservatives vote against the changes?…

    the UUP voted against the whole bill, they wanted SF ministerse to be able to operate without any ministeral responsiblity , they wanted North south bodies to operate without being accountable to the assembly

  • Frustrated Democrat

    HJ

    Read up on the activities in the House of Lords on the bill before you make any more statements.

  • Harry J

    The truth is the tories and UUP are split on this matter and i cant wait to play with these guys during the election

    are you a cameron support who supports the hillsborogh deal or are you an empey supporter whos against it

    where is ijp when you need him

  • Impartial Reporter

    Harry

    Conservatives and UUP both support devolution of policing and Justice.

    UUP, working with the dysfunctional ‘big two’ know that P&J will be mismanaged along with the other SF/DUP portfolios.

    Only when the dysfuntional Executive can do the job it has should it be offered P&J.

    But let’s just all sit back and see how the DUP have cocked it up AGAIN.

  • Harry J

    impartial – the tories support it NOW – Cameron fully supports the hillsborough deal – the UUP dont

    they are split

  • Greenflag

    Without American assistance and without British or Irish Government involvement the differing political parties in Northern Ireland would long since have consumed each other in an uncivil war that would made the ‘Troubles’ look like a schoolyard melee.

    There may come a time when the Americans , Irish and British politicos can trust the NI locals to sort out their differences without resorting to gunfire . That time is not yet nor will it be for perhaps another decade or two 🙁 Remember this lot have the claim for being the world’s ‘slowest’ learners in matters political and democratic:(