Early start for sectarianism in Stoneyford

The long running campaign of sectarianism in Stoneyford is something that Slugger has covered in detail.

I’m sure many of the people directly affected had hoped the arrest and detention of Mark Harbinson would bring some respite:

The Pride of the Village Flute Band is led by loyalist Mark Harbinson, who in November 2009 was remanded in custody charged with sexually assaulting a 13-year-old girl.

Mr Harbinson has also been questioned by police in connection with an alleged sexual assault on a 15-year-old girl and a 12-year-old boy

However the band he leads, the Pride of the Village Flute Band, has again applied to march around mixed cul-de-sac estates in the village this time on the evening of St Patrick’s Day.

The Parades Commission determination also covered by the BBC permits the parade with restrictions but notes:

ADDS: Parade route added at end

4. The Commission has a number of concerns in relation to this notification. Firstly, the notification was not left with an officer of the PSNI of the rank of sergeant or above, as required by the legislation. The person leaving it at the police station did so without providing a name, an address or any contact details. Moreover, the notification does not name an organiser while the signature purporting to be that of the organiser is illegible. Considering the named marshals on the notification, the police have been unable to identify any but one. The identified marshal has stated to them that he has not been approached to act as a marshal nor has he any knowledge that this parade is taking place; although he did express a willingness to participate if approached. In addition, there is no stated purpose for this parade. The 17th March is recognised nationally and internationally as St. Patrick’s Day, a day traditionally associated with the celebration of Irish heritage and culture. The Pride of the Village Flute Band has on no occasion in the past demonstrated such affiliations and has no history of parading on this date. The question, therefore, remains unanswered as to whether or not this is a mischievous notification to parade in Stoneyford from an unrelated third party; or, indeed, whether it is a genuine notification from the Pride of the Village band.

5. The Commission, in the interests of supporting the exercise of fundamental rights and freedoms; and recognising that failure to complete administrative requirements need not interfere with those rights; has decided to determine on this notification. A determination does not indicate or support the legality of this notification in its current form and failure to meet all statutory requirements for advance notice may leave those concerned open to prosecution and conviction. This is a matter for the PSNI and the Public Prosecution Service.

6. Nevertheless, the Commission feels that it has sufficient information to enable it to determine on this notification in its present form and in the light of other information, evidence and advice laid before it.

7. The Commission understands that Stoneyford has seen sectarian tension, and that the organising band has been the focus of concerns about sectarian intimidation in the village. The Commission considers that the notification of this parade can only give rise to renewed tensions in Stoneyford. As it has done previously in considering parades notified by this band, the Commission suggests to the organiser that he reflect carefully on whether his actions are in the best interests of community relations in Stoneyford; and if they are helping to further the interests of parading as a peaceful, cultural tradition.

17. Having considered all the evidence, information and advice available to it, the Commission takes the view that it is necessary to curtail part of the parade’s notified route, and it has therefore placed conditions on the parade. This decision is set against the background of continuing local community tension. It recognises the real possibility of damaging community relations should the parade proceed along the entirety of its notified route. Whilst recognising the fundamental importance of the right to freedom of assembly, the Commission finds it necessary to exercise its powers under section 8 of the Public Processions (Northern Ireland) Act 1998 to place restrictions on the parade.

A feature on Radio Ulster suggested despite the failure to comply with legislation the Parades Commission is powerless to prevent the parade and can only place restrictions on it. The only authority to outright ban it lies with the Secretary of State acting on a recommendation from the Chief Constable.

The TUV have thrown their weight behind Harbison’s mob via their local Councillor Cecil Calvert:

TUV councillor for the area Cecil Calvert last night slammed the decision as “wrong” not allowing the band to march through the two mixed housing estates.

Addition: The oft proposed route that hits every mixed cul-de-sac and misses out others (satellite version is well out of date):


View Parade – Stoneyford in a larger map

  • Harry J

    if these areas are mixed then surely those residents who wish to see the band must be allowed to have their rights.

    Or is this the future for protestants in Sinn Feins united ireland, if theres a taig about the place there wont be a parade?

  • Mark McGregor

    Harry J,

    Is it normal for parades to march off a main road and around the mixed cul-de-sacs?

  • Perhaps if Mr. Harbinson had any manners, he wouldn´t parade around areas where people don´t want to see or hear his band.

  • Blue Hammer

    Mark

    Maybe if you lot saw your way clear to facilitating parades down main roads (garvaghy and ormeau for example) their would be no need to walk round cul-de-sacs.

  • alan56

    Those who feel the need to march should show respect…its a no brainer. Speak to residents and try for a deal. If residents say ‘no’ then no it is. Hopefully though, residents will show some understanding too.

  • Quincey

    Mark, yes its very normal for parades to march off a main road.

    Before this goes off on a thread of whataboutery and conjecture some FACTS:-

    Stoneyford is a village of approximately 300 people. Its a small place. The 2 ‘cul de sacs’ effectively ARE Stoneyford. Almost all the band members live in these two cul de sacs. The majority of band members are under 16- both male and female.

    Of the 300 people in Stoneyford 90%+ are Protestant.

    Mark Harbinson has not been an officer or in a decision making capacity in the band for 2 years. He is not the chairman, he doesnt ‘lead’ it and it isnt his ‘mob’.

    The band has had St Patricks day functions for several years, each of which had a cross community element with local catholic children being involved. This years walk was to give new members -children- a chance to learn how to parade in preparation for the band season. No uniforms or regalia was to be worn or carried. They live here. Why cant they.

    Assertion that people dont want them is nothing only an assertion. Conjecture. What its actually based on never gets revealed.

  • Quincey

    Bottom line- the band has never felt they should have to explain themselves and defend themselves in depth. They are proud.

    They are consistently penalised for not fighting their case.

    I believe that they may be considering changing that approach for this parade.

  • alan56

    Quincey
    Do you mean they are going to actively engage and try to make their case or what?

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    Quincey

    How many Catholic children are involved in an anti-Catholic march on St. Patricks day……..aroundabout?

    Alan

    >>Hopefully though, residents will show some understanding too.<

  • alan56

    PE
    Just think what someone with real leadership qualities would do. I bet Mandela in this situation would probably say ‘let them have their parade’.

  • UlsterScotty

    It’s unlikely that many parents of any religious persuasion will be enthused about the Pride of the Village’s focus on involving young people given the allegations against Bro Harbinson. His lack of involvement in the band (due no doubt in part to his present incarceration at Her Majesty’s pleasure) calls to mind Wyatts’ poem “They flee from me that sometime did me seek”

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    UlsterScotty

    Lol! Never a truer word.

    Alan

    C’mon! Enough is enough, people want to live in peace. God forgive me but if someone comes on mouthing about human rights and civil liberties I’ll get so angry I’ll crush a grape ;¬) Let’s just say that these atavists have had their day.

    How fitting that the TUV are speaking up for the electorate they are targetting.

  • alan56

    PE
    Of course I agree people largely want to live in peace. But here in NI, living in peace means sometimes putting up with things you might not alway respect or like…(on both or all sides) thats the deal with conflicting cultures. If actual threat, intimidation result then the police should act.

  • Alias

    “Mr Harbinson has also been questioned by police in connection with an alleged sexual assault on a 15-year-old girl and a 12-year-old boy”

    I guess the handlers in both sets of murder gangs preferred members who were kiddie fiddlers (allegedly) as they made good touts.

  • I would hope the organisers of the band would make sure Mr Harbinson has nothing to do with the band in future. If he is placed on the sex offenders register as he should be, there will be no contact between him and the organisation.

    I cannot understand where these bands disappear to for most of the year. Surely it is possible for a band to be inclusive and to perform at, for example, nationalist events as well as unionists. The OOs aught to be at the forefront of uniting communities not hiding behind an orange sash.

    I dont want to sound naive but I dont believe a village of 300 people spend all their time segregated, why on earth would someone exchange gossip with a neighbour one day and rush behind the sectarian divide the next. If my neighbour were of the minority community and I knew something upset them, I would cancel it rather than offend. Mind you the same can be said of nationalists, we should not be so hyper sensitive.

  • Bangordub

    2 words
    coat trailing

  • KieranJ

    The RUC should check to see whether any youngsters in the “Pride of the Village Flute Band” have been buggered by this cretin.

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    alan56

    Aye sure what you say makes sense in theory, but;

    >>If actual threat, intimidation result then the police should act.< >I would hope the organisers of the band would make sure Mr Harbinson has nothing to do with the band in future.<

  • alan56

    David Forde must be mad taking on the P&J portfolio

  • Alan56. Maybe David Ford reckons P&J is pointless…

  • Mark McGregor

    Quincey,

    I’ve provided numerous links in relation to Harbinson, the ‘Pride of the Village’ and sectarianism in Stoneyford.

    Can you provide a single link to this cross-community ethos?

    So far the only link I see from you is your willingness to parade with them in your advertised capacity as a fellow flute band member.

  • alan56

    PE
    I have witnessed dozens of these situations and you’re right, its not a pretty sight. My sentiments are voiced in the hope that accomodation can somehow be reached. Naive?

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    The OO if it is to survive has to move into the real world. Mr Harbinson has been found guilty of assaulting a child. It will make no difference what he or the OO want. He will be banned from working with or belonging to any organisation which allows him access to children. In fact every adult member of that band and anyone working/marching with it should have up to date CRB reports.

    All it needs now is for someone to tell me that child protection CRB reports are not required in the north and I will be very upset.

  • Mark McGregor

    Quincey,

    I assume you think that when the last attempt to parade these cul-de-sacs was denied, the decision to enter the fields behind the estate and march around at the back of the houses belting out ‘blood and thunder’ was an exercise in bringing a much welcomed community event to those who really wanted it?

  • Chris Donnelly

    Quincey
    You must be one of Mark’s newer- and greener- disciples (relax, ‘greener’ in a non-nationalist sense of the word.)

    Your demographic figures are well off the mark- indeed the band would not be seeking to march in some of the named estates were they not annoyed at the mixed religious composition of the dwellers therewithin.

    I note the band reference marching to the ‘Old Pub’ in their march notification. Perhaps you’d like to revisit the history of just why that pub has lay derelict for many years now?

    I recall the beacon being sold as a cross-community venture by The Leader (or Elvis, as he liked to be called on the Orange Volunteers site.)

    Back then, of course, all strands of unionism lined up to defend the band and their leader.

    Perhaps the most positive aspect to this latest twist in the Stoneyford saga is that, finally, all beyond the most rejectionist and bigoted strand within unionism has decided to leave these people behind.

  • Mark McGregor

    Chris,

    It does leave a big question hanging over those that support ‘Policing & Justice’ in the north though.

    The parade application didn’t meet any of the criteria for a legal submission. The Parades Commission decided that was a reason towards restriction not rejection and permitted it on a shorter route.

    Will the ‘Chief Constable’ recommend an outright ban? Will a British SoS agree? Would an Alliance Minster endorsed by SF be inclined to get tough on this band’s arse?

  • James

    Chavs will be chavs

  • Chris Donnelly

    Mark
    I think the parade application had to be considered due to a precedent set by a similar case involving a parade skirting the Short Strand some years ago.

    Sinn Fein has called on the PSNI to ban the parade. Don’t know if the British SoS agrees; wouldn’t rely on Ford getting tough about anything- that’s a universal problem afflicting liberals.

    Still think devolving P and J good idea on principle, though not expecting significant changes on this front.

  • If failure to comply with requirements, especially to the extent shown here is not a reason to refuse, then the requirements become a joke.

  • Marcionite

    The TUV are wrong on this one and their support fir Torrens Knight. For these reasons, I no longer support them. I am sorely disappointed that TUV have taken it upon themselves to be a unionist version of SF. Even DUP never backed releasing murderers

    if Ulster were a sick patient in intensive care, I’d switch the machine off. This place is run by a menu of thugs, sectarians and even the Alliance is emitting noisome odours now it’s got a whiff of power.

    To those in NI who vote for DUP/SF , you don’t deserve peace. For those of us who are not sectarian, shame on us for not being militantly so and working hard enough where it matters. What only works in NI is not reason but might

    perhaps a cross community paramilitary force was what was needed.

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    Marcionite

    >>The TUV are wrong on this one and their support fir Torrens Knight. For these reasons, I no longer support them.< >I am sorely disappointed that TUV have taken it upon themselves to be a unionist version of SF.<

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    You have a short memory. Marcionite does not need the sarcasm of a snobby little nobody.

    Marcionite

    Well done. I agree with you too many people have taken sides, and those sides have taken lives.

  • Marcionite

    prionsas- SFs sectarianism is covert. I know, I grew up with provos. All they wanted was dead prods.

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    pipp

    >>You have a short memory. Marcionite does not need the sarcasm of a snobby little nobody.< >..SFs sectarianism is covert…< >I know, I grew up with provos. All they wanted was dead prods.<<*Kiddin aside* Should you be able to provide us with a smidgeon of evidence for this assertion then I'd be all ears. I simply don't believe it!Was any Prod prisoners to be taken at all?

  • Mark McGregor

    Kids,

    Do me a favour. Mick is busy, can you stop waving your dicks at each other. Thanks.

  • Marcionite

    Prionsas – I refer you to my latter postings under the thread about the Queens visit to Eire. I bared my soul there

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    If you want an insult to work for me. Spell it in English. Did you really think I would care enough to check.

    You need to understand we are not all the same. We do not all support the same view of the world. If we did it would be a very boring world, what would you and everyone who comments on here be doing for a start.

    Peace lad, sleep tight and dont let the bed bugs bite…

  • Marcionite

    Prionsas- I had teachers in Omagh who recruited boys from Carrickmore and Greencastle. I was friends with them but when they told me that their duty was to help rid Ireland of Brits and THEN the Prods, I knew what theyvreally were about

    SF members of my family circle in Tyrone have similar hair raising attitudes towards Protestants worthy of a slavering Serbian warlord

    if u REALLY don’t believe me, read Gerry McGeoughs interview in Magill. He was a top Provo for years until recently. It’s online via one of his websites. He wants to convert Protestants to Rome as it’s Irelands only true faith. His rabid anti Protestantism is de rigeur in Tyrone republicanism.

  • wee buns

    Sorry. The fact is, prods live happily in the republic. From what I know, they generaly hold distain for the orange need to coat trail in the six.

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    wee buns

    Stop it!

    Can’t you see there is a therapy session going on………….carry on boys!

    Pipp

    >>If you want an insult to work for me. Spell it in English. Did you really think I would care enough to check.< >He wants to convert Protestants to Rome as it’s Irelands only true faith.<

  • british citizen

    “The fact is, prods live happily in the republic. From what I know, they generaly hold distain for the orange need to coat trail in the six.”

    Posted by wee buns on Mar 06, 2010 @ 12:40 AM

    Are these the few that survived forced assimilation, murder and economic discrimination? The ones that were killed, forced to bring their children up as catholics or had their businesses affected by bigoted priests lived rather unhappily in the republic.

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    >>The ones that were killed, forced to bring their children up as catholics..<

  • british citizen

    If you were capable of finishing the sentence I was referring to three seperate circumstances.

    Are you denying Protestants/Unionists were murdered in the Free State after partition? Shall I give you some examples?

    It’s not ‘Orange bigots’ voting in their tens of thousands for representatives with criminal records for sectarian murder. Just remember that before you tarnish an entire community. Republican hypocrisy at it’s finest.

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    >>Are you denying Protestants/Unionists were murdered in the Free State after partition? Shall I give you some examples?< >It’s not ‘Orange bigots’ voting in their tens of thousands for representatives with criminal records for sectarian murder.< >Just remember that before you tarnish an entire community<

  • Alias

    Marcionite and british citizen, your brand of rabid anti-Irish dementia – wherein the Irish nation eats roasted British babies with boiled potatoes – is all too easily exposed as the product of a disturbed mentality by pointing out the simple fact that over 100,000 British citizens have chosen to live in Ireland.

    Why would over 100,000 British citizens choose to live here if this country had even a fraction of the hatred for British people that you both have for Irish people? All I can add is that I am glad there is a border and that your demented ilk resides on the other side of it – but I do surely pity the catholic tribe up there that they have to live among your dismal ilk.

  • Raymonds Back

    Does no one else like the irony of the Orange Order formally applying to march up a cul de sac? C’mon lads, get your comedy heads on…

  • nick

    Will Harbinson’s mate wee Cecil Calvert be wearing his jackboots on Paddy’s Day or will he leave that to the Stoneyford Gardai?

    If they can’t march around the cul de sac(what’s the ulster-scot’s for that phrase, by the way-a sleekit dander roon’ yon bendy road?), then they intend to march to nearby Aldergrove airport to receive a fly-past from an incoming Aer Lingus jet…

  • Prionsa

    Whilst I dont give a stuff what you think of me, right up to and including my nationality. I do think someone who prides himself on his intellect aught to be capable of seeing both sides of an argument without resorting to insult.

    Everyone

    There is some lingering resentment of the English here, why deny it its verifiable. There has been some persecution of protestants, not of course as much as that of catholics in the north but it has still happened.

    In todays world some people are still fighting yesterdays battles. Some are proud of their neutrality, and equally proud of killing Brits.

    Get a grip boys, we are not saints, just people who had genuine grievance.

  • Reader

    Raymonds Back: Does no one else like the irony of the Orange Order formally applying to march up a cul de sac?
    It isn’t the Orange Order. It’s a local band. The only bit of local knowledge who has posted in this discussion point out that most of these band members live in these cul-de-sacs (I keep on wanting to type culs-de-sac instead…)
    Mark McGregor: Is it normal for parades to march off a main road…
    Yes, when it’s a band parade. The Orange Order tend to wander off somewhere, and local bands tend to do a local circuit. They all seem to sort out a shared route by the 12th. Maybe that’s what all the practice is for. Is it a point of pride for republicans not to comprehend anything of this topic?

  • Reader

    If it is a local band, why can it not be inclusive. It needs new leadership, especially with the leader locked up for child molesting. I think social services need to be keeping a close eye on this little band.

  • Marcionite

    Prionsias- the IRA have buried quite a few folk in Donegal bigs I’m for sure, ask the Families of the Disappeared

    secondly, my diatribe is against SF IRA, not the bulk of the Eire people. As for 100000 British people who choose to live here, I welcome them but dare they live in main street Carrickmore or Dungiven.

    May I ask what you are laughing at too? I’m wondering because the anti Protestant diatribes I grew up with are sadly common amongst republicans in Tyrone. Perhaps you live in a more enlightened area but I certainly didn’t

    noone brings taped conversations or published private individuals names here for obvious reasons therefore you may argue with my opinions but please don’t stoop to dispute the facts that I witnessed myself when I mention what my experience of Tyrone republicans utterings and beliefs. If we begin lobbing ” I don’t believe you” as opposed to “I don’t agree with you because…” then this forum may as well close down. There’s a degree if trust you must give fellow debaters

  • Marcionite

    Do not be offended by someone who is not in Ireland and does not speak for Ireland. Prionsa sounds young and inexperienced.

    We may not agree on which flag we salute but we should be able to have the debate without being abusive, there has been too much of that already.

  • Reader

    pippakin: If it is a local band, why can it not be inclusive. It needs new leadership, especially with the leader locked up for child molesting. I think social services need to be keeping a close eye on this little band.
    I am almost wholly in agreement with you on those points. Though I wouldn’t want to pre-judge the outcome of a court case. And I think there can also be a place for communal, cultural (or sporting) organisations that define themselves as unionist (or nationalist)

  • PaddyReilly

    Mr Harbinson has also been questioned by police in connection with an alleged sexual assault on a 15-year-old girl and a 12-year-old boy

    As Bro Harbinson has shown himself so commendably even-handed with regard to the sexes, molesting male and female weans without discrimination, should it not be possible to form an inclusive band which represents neither Nationalist not Unionist sectarianism?

  • PaddyReilly

    I agree with what I think is the spirit of your comment.

    As for Harbinson would you call him even handed? subject of course to conviction, I think he is just a hate filled, power crazy, nut on his own little dung hill.

  • Jud

    For better or for worse the right to march and assemble needs to be a right.
    On the plus side how else would we figure out who the morons and bigots are?

    To those of you defending this on the ‘right to march’ basis though, I would ask your position on a march by republicans the following day along exactly the same route?

  • joeCanuck

    the anti Protestant diatribes I grew up with are sadly common amongst republicans in Tyrone

    I think/hope that those republicans were a small minority. I grew up in Strabane and never heard a word spoken against our Protestant neighbours or any protestants. We kids played together. Perhaps I was speaking with the “wrong” people.

  • Paddy

    Is there not a girls’ guide hall or a little Anglican scout hall they could march around?

    A little off topic but Afghans have marching songs comparing little boys’ bums to ripe melons. Will Mark’s bands do any such numbers?
    Any Catholic parent who allows his or her kids to be a paert of this should be reported.
    Also, have police checks been done on all the marchers? What percentage of them are pedos?

  • Rory Carr

    …which rather begs the question, Paddy, as to what you would prefer to compare little boy’s bums.

  • joeCanuck

    have police checks been done on all the marchers?

    Paddy, I’ve told you once already. You gotta restart the medication.

  • Gerry Lvs castro

    Paddy: ‘Any Catholic parent who allows his or her kids to be a paert of this should be reported.
    Also, have police checks been done on all the marchers? What percentage of them are pedos?’

    Paddy given the ‘pedo’ shenanigans of the RC church, your comment above is beyond hubris.

  • PaddyReilly

    the ‘pedo’ shenanigans of the RC church

    Pure sectarian bigotry. Paedophiles obviously worm their way into any position that gives them authority over children: Baseball coach in the US, Scoutmaster, orphanage worker (for the Kincora boys home), and allegedly in Harbinson’s case, Bandmaster. Church workers are also a popular choice in whatever denomination, take for example this delightful gentleman:-

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/sex-abuser-lsquotoo-fat-for-jailrsquo-finally-put-behind-bars-14710028.html

    In the Catholic Church this has often been priest. Hopefully this tendency will be defeated by the phasing out of priests’ responsibilities for Youth Organisations. The new Mass which does not require an acolyte is also a step in the right direction. When priests no longer have responsibility for the leisure activities of children the paedophile priest will disappear. But, obviously, the paedophiles will remain and will head for whatever profession takes over this role.

  • Gerry Lvs castro

    PaddyReilly — this ground has been well covered on other threads.

    Suffice to say that I absolutely agree that paedophiles are attracted to positions with authority over children. The telling issue is how they are dealt with by the organisation they join. The appalling litany of abuses emenating from the RC church suggests that not only were paedophiles attracted to the organisation, their perversions were actually facilitated by the actions of the church hierarchy, who preferred sharing the problems round dioceses and blatant denial & cover-up to bringing these sick individuals to justice.

    Your charge of ‘sectarian bigotry’ is a joke, an attempt to deflect from the (at best) appalling failure of the church to protect children.

    My comment was in response to Paddy’s ‘Any Catholic parent who allows his or her kids to be a paert of this should be reported.’
    Given the stark fact that RC children have historically been at much graver risk within their own church than any other organisation, Paddy’s remark was particularly crass, regardless of his motives, whether sectarian or not.

    I personally would prefer to see a country where neither Catholic nor Protestant churches existed and the OO was merely a rather odd footnote in history. Since that won’t be happening any time soon, I’m merely pointing out the organisation with the worst track record as regards paedophilia.

    I sincerely hope you are right with regards to paedophiles being given less opportunity to have contact with Roman Catholic children. This disgusting episode has done irreprable damage not only to thousands of children but to the church itself, and every measure they can use to prevent even more child being abused has to be welcomed.

  • For some years now the UK has required all people working with children and vulnerable people to have a Criminal Record Bureau report which has to be updated every few years.

    Here there is the Gardai report which requires much the same thing.

    As far as I know all churches in the UK have to comply with the same law, there is no wriggle room and nor should there be.

    We do not know for sure that more children were abused by RC than by Protestants. We should investigate every parish in the whole of Ireland.

    The one thing we should not do is allow this matter to be turned by some bigot into a sectarian subject. I am really disgusted at a couple of the comments here, from both sides, apparently.

  • RepublicanStones

    His rabid anti Protestantism is de rigeur in Tyrone republicanism.

    Can’t say I’ve come across this myself, being from Tyrone and all. I also attended school in Omagh and Dungannon, (like Marcionite claims to) and didn’t encounter anything he describes. Of course, I wouldn’t be as pompus as to think that my experience was representative of ‘the whole’.

  • Paddy

    “noone brings taped conversations or published private individuals names here for obvious reasons therefore you may argue with my opinions but please don’t stoop to dispute the facts that I witnessed myself when I mention what my experience of Tyrone republicans utterings and beliefs.”

    So we should just accept your version of events. Unless you can prove what you say, they are hardly facts.

    How can an Orange band be inclusive? They coat tail to rub the Croppies’ nose in it. A much simpler solution would be to ban them altogether. Also, why does the self styled Church of Ireland not take disciplinary action against its ministers who service this vile cult in Drumcree and elsewhere?

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    Gerry Lvs castro

    You never miss a chance to show yourself up.

    Pipp

    I love having my very own stalker, I wish you were a wee bit more, y’know……..exciting though!

    One semi(pushing it I know)-interesting point you make repeatedly is for the need for two sides of a debate to be heard. Should you have read the exchange between myself and Alan56, you would have noticed that I did not live up to your puerile charges. On this topic there is the sane and the bigotted nutters, it is my duty to rip the piss out of unreconstructed nutters!

    You can reason with them all day long, your choice.

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    Stalking? I am a long way past any ‘stalking’ days laddie. It belongs in the wilds of Scotland…

    You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, lousy as it is. You should not be insulting people because they disagree with you. It is no way to win friends or influence debate, there have been too many years of hate filled invective in this country already.

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    pipp

    Yep no worries……………whatever you say!

    Now could you get away from ma back windae!

  • Alias

    The Catholic Church is an all-Ireland organisation, having its headquarters in Northern Ireland. Since it is the same organisation, it will implement the same policies in the two jurisdictions that comprise its single jurisdiction.

    Why then does the British government not investigate the activities of the Catholic Church in its jurisdiction via enquiries dedicated to the purpose as the Irish government has done?

    Same Church. Same policies. Same victims. The unavoidable conclusion is that British state is colluding with the Church in covering-up its activities.

    Isn’t it ironic British Rule turned out to be Rome Rule, and that the Catholic Church is state-protected in that jurisdiction but not in this one?

  • This was, until a spotty kid changed the subject, about a contentious march in a small village.

    The right to assemble and march peacefully has got to be allowed, but it does not have to pass homes occupied by people who feel intimidated by it.

    No one should want cause discomfort to people, let alone insist on the right to do it.

    The other, even more important, subject raised here is that of child abuse and the way paedophiles insinuate their way into occupations that allow them access to vulnerable youngsters.

    No one should be allowed to work or volunteer to be part of an organisation which brings him or her into contact with children.

  • Alias

    The catholic church undoubtedly had as much influence on their congregation in the north as they did in the south. Investigations here have covered four/five areas, nothing like all or even enough. The fact they found rampant child abuse and cover up in every one of the areas checked shows how much further investigation is needed.

    The protection of our children is more important than sectarianism. Your argument smacks of republicanism looking for a scapegoat.

  • Rory Carr

    “No one should be allowed to work or volunteer to be part of an organisation which brings him or her into contact with children.”

    Where did you come up with that one, Pippakin?

    Looks like you took a leaf out of Delaney and Feehan’s Comic History of Ireland where they asserted that Poyning’s Law forbade any Catholic from “coming within five miles of any person, place or thing”.

  • RepublicanStones

    Alias you raise an interesting point, and it is one of those rare occasions when I support Alan Shatter.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8397206.stm

  • Rory Carr

    I might have known you would spot it and crow! I hit the wrong button and lost the chance to ‘preview’.

    It should have said: No one charged with or found guilty of child abuse should be allowed to work in or volunteer for positions that allow contact with children.

    Sorry…

  • Eleanor Bull

    http://debcenrevisited.yuku.com/topic/15627

    For anyone interested, there’s a rather unique view of the proposed parade being offered by an American woman over on DCR.

    Her analysis is that Harbinson’s band is clearly ‘protestants getting in tune with their Irishness’ and that there could well be 1798 Rebellion music amongst their repertoire. Her rather unique view offers the notion that because it’s St. Patrick’s Day, and not the 12th of July, it represents something of a sea-change in protestant thinking.

    And to think NI’s ‘leaders’ jet off to Washington every year in order to be lectured to by people educated in the same schools system.