Adams facing new allegations

election.ie seems first out the traps with the Tribune’s front page and some detail on the major story being broken by Suzanne Breen.

“Women from two of Ireland’s best-known republican families have spoken for the first time about how they were sexually abused by republicans and of how that abuse was covered up by Sinn Féin and the Provisional IRA.

A grand-niece of former IRA chief-of-staff Joe Cahill has told of how she was repeatedly raped at the age of 16 by a prominent IRA man in west Belfast.

The daughter of a now deceased IRA Belfast commander has spoken of how she was physically, mentally and sexually abused by someone who is currently a Sinn Féin elected representative.”

  • Scaramoosh

    That’s the Republican Family for you …decrying British human rights, whilst covering up abuse in their own backyard, in the interests of the “long war”….

    The lid is off…

  • donegal danny

    Adams stop the spin and start telling the truth

  • UlsterWatcher

    Gerry Adams ‘ignored two more victims’? So, he ‘ignored’ Aine Tyrell, did he? I refer to my earlier post. Adams’ departure will be a good thing for SF. McGuiness has trounced unionism and will be all the stronger for Adams’ departure – if it happens.

  • Mick Fealty

    Mark and I blogged about the same time. Here’s my post from below:

    “The Sunday Tribune today prints the stories of two women from prominent republican families who suffered rape/sexual abuse and who accuse the IRA and SF of a cover-up. There’s a front page news story and a double page feature inside. It is the detail that’s so damning. In one case the IRA brought the victim and the perpetrator together to check the body language to see which one was lying. Forensic? I don’t think so.

    “Most damning of Adams personally is his response to the victim when she discovered her tormentor had been drinking in a pub in Letterkenny: “what do you expect me to do out it, ban him from every bar in Ireland?” If this is how the party dealt with two people from ‘Republican aristocracy’ how were cases of ordinary people dealt with?”

  • UlsterWatcher

    Well, if Adams didn’t make that comment about banning the abuse ‘from every bar’ it will be interesting to see if he takes legal action about it.

    I think we’re at the tipping point now. There will either be a flood ofother cases annd Adams will go…or the republican community will herd together in response to what they perceive to be a hatchet job.

    I think adams will go…but SF will be undamaged in the north. Securing policing and justice will be highly prized by nationalists.

  • Mick Fealty

    That’s the least of your worries UW. You’ll need to do more than denounce Adams. This is a party culture problem and until the dFM demonstrates a stone wall between himself in Derry and this culture in Belfast IRA, how do we know he does not have, as Fionnuala O’Connor put it, “a shared problem”.

    As for unionism, I’d be very careful about doing a deal with people who say one thing and do another.

  • UlsterWatcher

    So, Mick, you’ve accepted that child abuse is rife withing the ranks of SF then, yes?

    The ‘party culture’ was a hostility towards the police etc – rather than any acceptance of abuse.

    Add to that the different ‘culture’ towards abuse allegations back in the late 1980s. There just wasn’t the same level of openness then. That doesn’t make it right – but people simply didn’t feel the atmosphere existed so that issues of this nature could be brought up. Heck, we were shocked by Eamon Casey having a relationship with a woman back then! We were that innocent.

    But, Mick, for you to allege that SF had a culture of tolerance towards child abuse is simply pathetic.

    You’ve lost the run of yourself.

  • RepublicanStones

    This is a party culture problem..

    Indeed it is. Vladimir Ilyich Adams has to go, but I can see him trying to hang on until his fingernails bleed, pride is a hot air balloon, the longer you hold onto it the mightier the fall. Adams would no doubt prefer to go at a time of his own choosing and during a period of relative calm or right after an alleged success (such as P&J) but by doing so he is merely putting himself before the party, and will only damage that which he seeks to protect.

  • New Blue

    As a supporter of the devolution of Policing and Justice I am very concerned that this issue is now a tool to save two damaged political parties and as such will not be designed with the best interests of the electorate in mind.

    We cannot allow an issue as important as this to become a ‘life-raft’ for two quickly sinking ships.

    I want to see policing and Justice devolved but not under the planning or guidance of SF or the DUP.

  • Pigeon Toes

    “Most damning of Adams personally is his response to the victim when she discovered her tormentor had been drinking in a pub in Letterkenny: “what do you expect me to do out it, ban him from every bar in Ireland?” If this is how the party dealt with two people from ‘Republican aristocracy’ how were cases of ordinary people dealt with?”

    Mick, Hardly a “smoking gun”

  • UlsterWatcher

    NewBlue wrote, “As a supporter of the devolution of Policing and Justice I am very concerned that this issue is now a tool to save two damaged political parties and as such will not be designed with the best interests of the electorate in mind.”

    And that would be the electorate who voted for those parties, yes? You know, the people who voted in greater numbers for SF and the DUP rather the party you support, yes?

    Damn that democracy!

  • Mick Fealty

    UW,

    Where on earth did I say that? You really need to go out and buy a copy of the Tribune before you go any further.

    There was no culture in west Belfast against going to the cops if you were robbed. People needed crime reports for that and there was a general tolerance for letting the cops in to do that kind of work.

    What we also know (which does not contradict your point about the 1980s) is that the party was never in a position to do policing at this kind of level. We also know that not all parts of the IRA had the same policy of non co-operation with the state on child abuse cases.

    That may not be intention to cover up, but that is what it ends up being…

    The Liam Adams story now looks very different after three weeks than it did in the Adams/Gorman interview. This guy seems to have sustained a nice career in youth work despite the grave suspicions of his older brother, and a career inside the party long after Gerry claims to have dumped him out. That he continues to use party resources to back him (Mary Lou and Kelly) only extends the damage.

    If Gerry was too busy to know, then he was certainly too busy to keep an eye on his activities. For that alone he should walk.

  • New Blue

    UW

    If you really believe that is what I posted above then you have perception issues.

    The electorate deserve leadership not mismanagement.

    Democracy will select the parties that people want to represent them it is then up to the elected members of those parties to do that job.

    Are you honestly saying you believe that is the case?

  • Mick Fealty

    PT,

    What?

  • Pigeon Toes

    Allegations Mick. I’m sure there is a “perfectly reasonable explanation”…

  • Mick Fealty

    Indeed. We patiently await such….

  • Cynic2

    I think there is a very simple explanation. A businessman I know in a rural area far from Belfast had a problem. The teenage sons of the local PIRA commander were running amok. They had stolen from him and assaulted his son. So he approached his local SF rep to see if something could be done to deal with this situation. The response was quite clear “If you are f***ing mad enough to approach him go ahead. I am not”.

  • Henry94

    New Blue

    I want to see policing and Justice devolved but not under the planning or guidance of SF or the DUP

    The completion of P&J may set the stage for generational change across the political spectrum.

    There would be no more major mountains to be climbed in the peace process.

  • Pigeon Toes
  • UlsterWatcher

    Mick, I agree with you. Adams should walk. In fact, Id go as far to say that there may be even elements within SF who are hoping he’ll walk. He’s become the embarrassing old uncle at the party.

    I may have misinterpreted your comment on the ‘party culture’ of SF. My point is that in the 1980s SF were in a double bind when it came to issues of child abuse. Here you had a strongly Catholic party facing allegations of abuse at a time when such matters simply were not publicly aired. That’s why I refered to Bishop Casey. Do you remember how shocked we were on finding out he had a relationship with a woman! It’s seems unbelievable now to think about the media’s reaction to that ‘scandal’. Also, the shinners were committed to non-cooperation with the ‘crown forces’ – so, when abuse allegations arose they could hardly raise the matter with the social services given the inevitable legal issues that would entail. As for your comment that there was a general tolerance for letting the police sort out robberies…sorry, that’s just ridiculous.

  • Mick,

    “As for unionism, I’d be very careful about doing a deal with people who say one thing and do another.”

    Have you borrowed this line from Jim Allister?

    I share your excitement at the possiblity of getting rid of someone who has done more damage to the union than any other, but whether we are talking about the Robinson or Adams affairs these events should not be used (as your remarks seem to suggest) as a mechanism to de-rail political progress.

  • Jaggers

    So in an environment where SF and its supporters refused in body and soul to accept the authority of the state policing and justice system, they operated a second-tier system that included punishment beatings, expulsions and worse. And now we’re finding out it wasn’t perfect!

    Yes, it was expedient for SF and its supporters to co-operate with the RUC on occasion (as Mark says, to get crime numbers for insurance and the like). But beyond the philosophical and practical opposition, it is accepted that there was an appetite amongst the RUC and British State Security to use any contacts with SF and its supporters to gather intelligence and on occasion to seek touts.

    What is amazing to me is that the operation of this second-tier policing and justice system hasn’t thrown up hundreds if not thousands of cases of negligence, abuse and corruption. After all look at all such cases exposed within the first-tier system in the RUC and the Garda. What do people now expect ? That SF and the IRA operated perfect standards of policing and criminal justice whilst at the same time being at war with the state? That on occasion, the war objective took precedence over personal justice?

    Only 2 new cases? Why doesn’t Adams just tell us there are likely to be hundreds of such cases where the second-tier system didn’t work for whatever reason? Seems like a particularly apt time to make that statement in the context of the devolution of policing and justice and a future where such second-tier systems can’t operate.

    The only surprising thing is that it is a mark of how politics and political structures have matured in Northern Ireland that these cases are surfacing now. If Gerry Adams weren’t becoming (has become?) an Establishment Figure then the absence of a suitable target would mean the stories didn’t surface or weren’t given publicity.

  • Mick Fealty

    MU,

    Touche! Let me try again. What we are witnessing the exposure of those poisonous foundations Peter Preston warned of back in 2007.

    Both party’s are trying to close a deal in the context of two major crises as a damage limitation exercise.

    UW, we’ll have to agree to disagree on that. I know that was the view of keyholders in the lower Springfield, before an RUC patrol was taken out, minutes after doing a routine crime report in the late 80s.

  • Damian O’Loan

    Perhaps an appropriate time to raise again some of the concerns outlined in the SDLP Restorative Justice dossier – the process of bringing together victim and offender, which can be useful in cases of low-level crime and with full mutual consent is clearly not for cases of sexual abuse. Yet the protocol in place does not ensure that this won’t recur.

    “VI. Cases of concern

    (a) Cases reported to the SDLP

    The SDLP has received a number of complaints regarding CRJ. In most cases, the people concerned have been too afraid to speak out publicly.

    Examples from 2005 and this year include:

    A CRJ member witnessing a serious assault and failing to make a statement to police about it implicating his IRA colleagues.
    A paramilitary group attacking a person for failing to pay “compensation” that CRJ dictated should be paid.
    A CRJ member encouraging a family not to proceed with charges against IRA personnel who were involved in a serious assault. At the same time, the IRA was threatening the family with attack if they proceeded.
    A CRJ member dictating to a person not to work for another person who was viewed unfavourably by CRJ.
    A CRJ member informing a person that there was a threat against his life in order to get the person to attend a CRJ meeting.
    A CRJ member looking to mediate in a planning dispute.
    Allegations that some of those who covered up the murder of Robert McCartney are CRJ members.

    (b) Cases publicly reported

    There have been public reports of a number of some cases.

    For example:

    In August 2000 it was alleged that a prominent IRA man who was also a member of Community Restorative Justice sexually assaulted two girls. Some grassroots republican activists contacted the Sunday World newspaper about these allegations because they claimed that the republican leadership was trying to sweep the matter under the carpet.

    Asked to comment on this, the Director of Community Restorative Justice Ireland, Jim Auld, told the Sunday World at the time: “We have a clear understanding of what is required in cases like this. We contact Social Services about these matters and we know that the Social Services contact the RUC. And we have no problem and no difficulty with that.” (Sunday World, 6 August 2000 – Annex E).

    Yet the RUC never received the allegations and the man in question is believed to have moved to the Republic. “I haven’t heard that man’s name for years,” Mr Auld told the Sunday World when reminded of the case last November, adding that he had no idea where he was living now. (Sunday World, 6 November 2005 – Annex E).

    The Director of the Belfast Rape Crisis Centre has expressed concern that CRJ have “hampered cases by interfering with evidence which meant the perpetrators weren’t brought to court.” (Sunday Tribune, 20 November 2005, Annex E).

    The Area Management Coordinator of Foyle Women’s Aid has expressed concern about the involvement of CRJ in domestic violence. “An ex-prisoner arriving at the door and threatening a man who is beating his wife can make things worse. The CRJ person departs and the woman is left with a partner perhaps even angrier than before. In one case where CRJ was involved, the woman went on to commit suicide.” She also complained that CRJ would only agree to refer cases of domestic violence to Women’s Aid provided that they were given an undertaking that they would not be referred on to the police – and also that CRJ had been involved in telling young women to end affairs with married men. (Sunday Tribune, 20 November 2005, Annex E).

    Jane Dorrian was threatened by two CRJ members after her paranoid schizophrenic son, who had been involved in anti-social behaviour, returned to the neighbourhood contrary to IRA orders. “X told me Bernard had been seen at the house and if it happened again I’d have to get out too… Y told me twice on the phone that, if I didn’t leave my home, a 300 strong picket would be outside the door.” (Sunday Tribune, 20 November 2005, Annex E).

    Victor Notorantonio family claim that a CRJ member called his family to a meeting at which his son Frank (18) and his nephew Billy (21) were given 24 hours to leave the country. CRJ intervened following difficulties between the Notorantonio family with the neighbouring Devlin family. The intervention was unsuccessful and the family feuding escalated out of control, with a member of the Devlin family now dead. (Sunday Tribune, 20 November, Annex E).

    (c) Cases reported to the IMC

    As the International Monitoring Commission stated in its eighth report (February 2006):

    “Since we commented on community restorative justice in November 2004 and May 2005 we have heard from a number of people about their concerns over some developments. Views have reached us from organisations and from individuals, the latter speaking with first hand personal experience within the very communities where the paramilitaries have been most active and have had the tightest grip…

  • Damian O’Loan

    “These accounts have had two main features. First, that there have been some instances of people known for their involvement in community restorative justice schemes, and sometimes apparently speaking in the name of such schemes, who have tried to exert improper pressure on individuals, whether victims, alleged offenders, or members of their families. Those who have exerted this pressure are sometimes also known for their paramilitary connections. As reported to us, this pressure is seen by those on whom it is exerted as intended to secure the disposal of the crime without recourse to the criminal justice system, including police, for example by requiring the alleged offender to move to another location or to refrain from visiting certain places in future. While the allegations put to us may not always have involved actual violence against victims or alleged offenders they have sometimes referred to what has been described as an “undercurrent of threat” – and threat has been sufficient. The second feature of the accounts has been the type and seriousness of some of the offences, which fall well outside the scope of ordinary restorative justice schemes. As a matter of general principle, for example, violent offences against the person and sexual offences are not appropriate for restorative justice.”

    CRJI is now tax-payer funded.

    http://www.sdlp.ie/index.php/our_campaigns/policy_documents/

  • ranger1640

    How can any woman within Sinn Fein stay in that party, when that so obviously puts little value on rape, paedophilia and will protect the culprit.

    Will women in republican areas vote for a party that so obviously does not care for them???

  • TellMeMa

    “what do you expect me to do out it, ban him from every bar in Ireland?”

    Mick: I think you misinterpret Gerry. He was merely stating the limits of his power.

    Slugger seems to have the notion that every sin committed by others in West Belfast (or by any SF member) is

    ALL GERRY’S FAULT!

    and that he should have fixed every problem.

    This is a hard burden to bear.

    Is Gerry Adams the Christ of West Belfast?

    When Gerry goes, which he will do inevitably (with or without Slugger’s influence), what will so many Slugger contributors do without him?

    Posted by TellMeMa on Jan 17, 2010 @ 12:19 PM

  • Damian O’Loan

    Jaggers,

    It’s not existence of a “second-tier” justice system that is a problem – clearly that had widespread support, it simply isn’t an excuse here.

    These are the same problems I have with dissident republicans now – the question of getting a united republic completely effaces the question of what kind of republic you want. If it is one based on equality and justice, I’m interested. If it’s one based on a dictatorial system that refuses to move beyond a strict vertical hierarchy, frankly I’m not.

    A revolutionary party has to be bottom-up – therefore criminal accusations, criticisms and ideas from its grassroots should be taken extremely seriously. It has to pave the way for the next revolution, whatever it may demand. The path from the first to second must be dialogue – and as we can see from these cases and the words of the resigned representatives, that’s just not part of the culture in SF.

    This means that, yes Gerry Adams should resign. And the blow that deals is less serious than SF fears, because there is more to offer to replace him than they have counted on.

    If they want to continue to attract new members, they need to now act. Apart from a moral imperative, I imagine, shared by all but the most radical moralities there is the question of SF’s harm to the very project they claim to deliver best.

    Anthony McIntyre’s label of ‘the Catholic Party’ has rarely seemed more appropriate.

  • heamaisbharney

    Horrific tales of abuse cynically added too by the uncaring response from Sinn Féin and IRA figures.
    This bodes ill for the future.
    Cover up is an in built attribute of the s.f leadership and we saw the very same after the murder or Robert McCartney and then after the murder of Paul Quinn.
    Apart from anything else the history of the IRA is becoming unglued with these revelations and it will be difficult for any future history to exclude this dark chapter and the further disclosures which may well follow.

    Gerry Adams’ poor response both to the abuse and to the stories about it has done serious harm to what he likes to term ‘the republican family’ and the future perception of it.

  • lorraine

    it’s amazing to observe the almost non-reaction from the women of sinn fein; no empathy, sympathy or understanding for vulnerable females yet oceans of understanding for the dear leader.

    amazing!

  • UlsterWatcher

    Lorraine, you obviously didn’t hear Seamus McKee and Susan Breen’s tag-team effort against Mary Lou McDonald the other night then, did you?

    The only person expressing any words of concern for Aine Tyrell was Mary Lou.

    Mick, Lorraine et al…sling your mud. It illustrates nothing more than your impotent rage.

    This is what matters:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8464128.stm

    McGuinness has more guts, conviction, decency, courage and talent than all of you put together. And it guts you that you can’t derail it. Adams may have may made mistakes but none of this would have happened without him. We’d still be being beaten by the B-specials if we’d relied on the cowards of the SDLP.

    Gerry, enjoy your retirement. You deserve it.

  • louth voice

    Congratulations to the brave republican women for coming forward with their horrific stories in the Sunday Tribune. Adams is once again exposed, what will it take for him to do the decent thing?

  • Jaggers is correct when he says a parallel system of justice if forced upon people due to the unfairness and impartiality of the existing system, is bound to have major flaws in it. Surly this is why Gerry Adams has now been arguing for devolved policing in the North.

    The fact is in the past, working class nationalists simply did not wish to engage with the RUC because their experiences with that force had been so appalling. As witnessed by Liam Adams daughter, who went to the RUC back in the early eighties to report her father for sexual abuse and all they were interested in was to recruit her as an informer.

    Have we forgotten the torture and murder of 14-year old Stompie Moeketsi in 1989 South Africa, which was carried out by Mrs Mandela’s cohorts.

    This type of thing is why some of us have argued for an international, truth, justice, and reconciliation commission which would deal with not only collusion by the State and murder by the paramilitaries and British army, but also cases when people felt unable to report crimes like sexual abuse due to the then political and security situation.

    It is a great pity so many unionist politicos and have turned a deaf ear to this. It seems to me it would have been far better for the victims of crimes such as rape and other forms of sexual abuse if they had been able to take their tormentors and expose their crimes before such a ITJ@RC.

  • UlsterWatcher

    Not much on RTE about this story either…except for Martin’s handshake for Peter…you know, real news. Suzanne’s going to need to try harder.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0117/northpolitics.html

    I wonder what Peter was thinking when Martin held out his hand. I wonder if he thought, “Christ, I wouldn’t have done that for him!” Gestures like Marty’s can alter the political landscape forever – and for the better.

    What’s for certain, there’s more significance to this handshake than that between Hume and Trimble.

  • TellMeMa

    Mickhall & Jaggers:

    Not sure about a truth & justice & reconciliation commission, but I do agree that there should be trust in the local police force by all parts of a society. So a clean and reliable police force, which all victims of crime can report to. And a proper justice system.

    A devolved version of this is what the DUP and SF are trying to work on now.

    In the meantime many people on Slugger are howling for SF’s and Gerry Adams’s blood (and to a lesser extent for the blood of some in the DUP). What purpose does this serve?

    And those victims of rape who were reported in the Tribune could go to the police to seek justice (though Donaldson is dead). The only known alleged victim of a pedophile is already seeking justice though the PSNI seems to be dragging out the procedure.

  • Damian O’Loan

    “Jaggers is correct when he says a parallel system of justice if forced upon people due to the unfairness and impartiality of the existing system, is bound to have major flaws in it.”

    The tenets of any justice system have to have some philosophical grounding. I have some sympathy with SF in not being able to provide a transparent, public system – but this has to be compensated for by extreme care not to fall into corruption favouring the hierarchy. This was not the case, and as Suzanne Breen has pointed out, there are measures within the SF constitution, requiring consultation with the Ard Chomhairle, that were not respected.

    Relating to transparency, even British justice caters for anonymity for possible victims of rape. The contrast between this and the ‘body language’ pseudo-science is stark. That doesn’t mean that the British justice system should be blindly accepted or imitated, but international best practice was there to be learned from – it was wilfully ignored to protect a top-down power structure.

    Another is resources – the implementation of justice and the establishment of truth does depend on money among other things. Yet that does not appear to be at play in these cases or in others of concern.

    It’s facile to call ‘cover-up’ the actions of a parallel justice system. But it is critical to ask on what basis it operated, or operates. For SF, incredibly, equality appears not to be, or have been, paramount. There must have been hundreds, thousands, of victims of domestic violence, sexual discrimination and rape in republican areas during the troubles. They were entitled to a better system than this. It’s not enough to say the RUC were no better – the model for justice in a united republic was not the RUC and it wasn’t the behaviour alleged here.

  • Frank Martin

    For me, it is hard to reconcile the fact that the same movement which rightfully highlighted and campaigned against the brutal British policy of stripsearching female republican prisoners, could be apparently so lax in dealing with severe cases of sexual abuse within its own ranks.

  • Paddy

    Mmmm. I do remember mentioning Joe Cahill’s family in an earlier post. That character’s remains do not belong in a republican plot.

    As regards Liam: Gerry could have had him expelled from Sinn Fein and there would have been party minutes to confirm his expulsion. Has Sinn Fein done a P de Rossa on their notes and burnt them all?

    The Republican Movement, to use the “correct” expression, is not democratic and that is why rape, child abuse, thivery and thuggery were rampant. Mary Lou and her ilk are only puppets. What do the sinister men think? Or do they think?

  • I think the S/F Leadership need to first publically suspend the elected official because of his/her alleged crimes against a child (now an adult).

    Afterwards, they need to investigate the other claims made in today’s Sunday Tribune as a matter of urgency!

    Hesitation on their part will only led to further allegations of cover-ups etc.

  • Paddy

  • ranger1640

    Bad link Paddy.

  • Omg Ive just started reading the Tribune, its disgusting and disgraceful. The similarity with the goings on in the catholic church is unreal.

  • Paul

    I think this is just the tip of the iceberg.

  • OscarTheGrouch

    I think our ‘political parties’ need another ten years of limbo for some further maturation. Surely some sort of relatively peaceful stasis can be found to let the ghosts of the troubles fade sadly away.

    The troubles generated casualties, very few of whom are the armani suit brigade at Stormont, and I wish we could do something about the injustice that many innocent people have suffered, but making it a political football I suspect will not serve that purpose.

    Essentially the combatants of the 70’s and 80’s need to decommission themselves and allow a democratic representation of their aspirations to come through.

    I keep seeing the rubber dinosaur scenes from 2,000,000 years BC when I think of Gerry, Peter, Martin, Reg, etc etc

  • Paddy

    Joe Cahill was a big wig in PIRA. When the Brits claimed Bellfast was Provo free after internment, he allowed himself to be interviewed in Adams’ Ballymurphy, thus exposing himself and necessitating his Southward flight. In between getting caught with millions of Libyan dollars and the Claudia ship, he went on a farsical hunger strike. During the GFA lead up, he was allowed return to the North and he was there, centre stage, when the deed was done.

    This IRA hatchet man, who had immense sway within the IRA family, allowed his own family members to be systematically raped.

    Ed Moloney points out in his Secret History that the Cahill and Adams family were very tight from the 1940s on. Sickening.

    Now given that Cahill and Adams were not unduly worried by the rape of children, will Gerry Adams pelase tell us what was Denis Donaldson’s big sin that allowed the Brits to control him? Whatever it was, it must have been very dark and must have involved these same leading republican families.

    The fact that RIRA were got to finish him off means nothing as they are infiltrated by PIRA and would be easily goaded into shooting a defenceless men in an isolated Donegal farmhouse.

    So Gerry, you and Martin met Denis D after he came out of the MI5 closet. Care to tell us what the goodies were?

  • OscarTheGrouch,

    ” think our ‘political parties’ need another ten years of limbo for some
    further maturation”

    unfortunately that is also required for those who continue to elect them time after time. When the DUP moved to the centre the TUV moved into the space vacated.

    As the Robinson and Adams case vividly illustrate, the politicians we have are no different from the rest of us.

  • Gonga Din

    When in a hole stop digging

    Gerry’s caught hook line and sinker, the porkies will always get ya, look at the mess across the corridor in DUP never never land.

    Oh but what a webb.

  • UlsterWatcher

    Hmm…seems noone’s too concerned about Aine’s claim that the police tried to recruit her as an informer.

    Well, why muddy the waters when Adams is getting a doing, eh?

    The concern expressed is so sincere and heartfelt – it’s very moving.

  • Paul

    Gerry Adams and others in the sinners are finished and Adams will take others down with him.

  • Halfer

    The grand niece of Cahill is one of the two that I had known about and mentioned in earlier posts. Was the perpetrator named in the Tribune?

    This affairs goes beyond Gerry Adams. Although he is SF president and west belfast resident, the entire belfast leadership would have known about these incidents and in particular one rather hefty gentleman would have been responsible for the damage limitation and cover up.

    There are many complicit in this and many would need to answer questions.

  • tacapall

    #

    Hmm…seems noone’s too concerned about Aine’s claim that the police tried to recruit her as an informer.

    Posted by UlsterWatcher on Jan 17, 2010 @ 03:13 PM

    Being Republican you’d expect that seeing as who was involved etc, but the accusations being kept tight lipped and supposedly within the family, and with other accusations coming to light, well thats just bad practice for obvious reasons.

  • Halfer

    incidentally….just listened to mary lou macdonalds interview on i-player and am still cringing for her…….

    too bad though. why would she and Artur be so willing to throw themselves onto Gerrys sword?

  • Paul

    mary lou macdonalds interview

    Her Interview was pathetic she was all over the place the sinners are up to there necks in this.

  • An Phoblacht Abu

    While i hate to defend any of the provisionals i feel it is worth pointing out that no one has yet been found guilty of any crime, a small note in the scandal im sure but an important one.

    But why is anyone surprised that Gerry Adams as usual is acting in the best interests of only Gerry Adams, he has been self serving since the 1960’s and the preservation of Gerry Adams is the only real aim of Gerry Adams and his personality cult that is Provisional Sinn Fein

  • UlsterWatcher

    The Adams allegations (noone has actually been convicted of anything here, right?) make it to…wait for it…page 19 in today’s Sunday Life.

    Oh dear.

    Still Iris all over the fron though. Good times.

  • UlsterWatcher

    One other thing, Aine Tyrell has claimed that Adams said he believed here when she came to him with her story.

    If Adams was this heartless ogre he’s been made out to be you would have expected her to be sent packing and told to suffer in silence ‘for the good of the cause’.

    Just a thought.

  • Kevsterino

    Since this story broke, I have tried to imagine what I would have done in Gerry Adams’ place. Not being sure of what avenues would be available, that has been impossible.

    In normal circumstances, knowing what to do would be a far sight easier. I believe I would take my niece to the police station and a doctor.

    Well, in his circumstances, the trip to the police station is out.

    But did he ever think to get the girl to a doctor’s office? Surely there were some doctors he could trust. Why didn’t he take her to a doctor?

  • John O’Connell

    UlsterWatcher

    Clearly he didn’t believe her if one goes by his subsequent actions. He let his brother Liam do as he liked until recently when he had to do something. He didn’t send him to Coventry in the family. Indeed he was at his second wedding. He didn’t throw him out of Sinn Fein either in Dundalk or in Belfast.

    So Gerry Adams didn’t believe his niece and he lied to her that he did. Either that or he knowingly let a paedophile loose on this community.

  • Paddy

    “Either that or he knowingly let a paedophile loose on this community”

    Just how many paedophiles are in the Republican community? The Short Strand IRA/McCartney killers were supposed to have their share. One of the guys who tried to spring MacStiofain from the Mater – the Mother they called him in the Bog – has an unhealty interest in fresh faced youth. We have the Waterford nest and now the new revelations from The Tribune. And we stil don’t know what Denis Donaldson’s dark secret was.

    So maybe Gerry thought no big deal.

    Certainly UlsterWatcher and others batting for Gerry must agree with this analysis unless they have been totally corrupted. When supping with the Bearded Devil, a long spoon is useful

  • Paddy

    I hope you are wrong. Its bad enough as it is.

  • OscarTheGrouch

    I am genuinely staggered by this.

    In a weird sort of way I gave SF a grudging respect because I thought that no matter how nuts their politics or how bloody their methods, they had some form of idealogical ‘discipline’.

    This mysogynous,abusive,… I’m stumped for words.

  • IRIA

    Paddy:

    The IRA said M was under ‘house arrest’ in Ardoyne. Days later, Cahill was told he had ‘escaped’. Now she confided in her Uncle Joe (80) whom she had wanted to protect from hearing she’d been raped. “He said, ‘If I’d known I’d have told you to go to the RUC. There has been a f**k up of the highest order in the movement.'”

  • Scaramoosh

    The Republican Family (no pun intended), “that all-powerful, all noble movement” has received its first real hard knock, and there is no scope for it or its members to crawl back into the bunker…

  • I am shocked at the accusations being described in the Sunday Tribune.

    Neighbours reported to social services but a frightened child needs reassurance not questions and it seems the child had no one to turn to for support.

    Sinn Fein needs to clean out now, going to the solicitors to try to prevent publication does nothing but raise more questions. The first step should be to suspend the S/F representative until enquiries are over. This would be seen as a practical step, and a signal of willingness to put things right.

    Gerry Kelly speaking on RTE has just said that the first thing to do in the case of abuse is to ” help, support and protect the victim.” and I could not agree more.

  • Paddy

    12. The IRA said M was under ‘house arrest’ in Ardoyne. Days later, Cahill was told he had ‘escaped’. Now she confided in her Uncle Joe (80) whom she had wanted to protect from hearing she’d been raped. “He said, ‘If I’d known I’d have told you to go to the RUC. There has been a f**k up of the highest order in the movement.’”

    Joe Cahill comes across here as a Gandhi figure. Would he not have got the Ardoyne IRA to look into the matter? The same IRA who killed a guy over a card game? Or did Cahill have a Damascan change of heart as Gerry paraded him around during the GFA talks?

    Cahill, like Adams, did nothing.

    Joe Cahill remains do not belong in a Republican plot or consecrated grounds.

  • Paddy

    Political ramifications
    for both SFIRA and DUP are splet out here. The article gets the Sinn Fein approach spot on. To give the DUP sme credit, there has been bloodless splits and heaves there. Army type structures, such as those favoured by SF, are less malleable. That is why I think Sinn Fein might go the way of the Sticks, into eventual oblivion.

  • Paddy