Where does this leave Gerry Adams?

Notwithstanding Gladys’ point, Malachi gets to Occum’s razor and asks the political question: where does this leave Gerry Adams?

One likely response is sympathy for a man who had borne a great family secret when he had political work of national importance to deal with at the same time. Another may be to pick at the details of his mismanagement for evidence of collusion or incompetence. But questions such as that can only damage him if they come from within his party. And he is still held in reverence by many there. But for many there is now a sense that Gerry Adams is not the man they thought they knew. He is more complex and more vulnerable. They always understood that he was a man with secrets from an IRA past he still denies. But such secrets as these?

My own caveat to this argument is that the ‘this’ part of Malachi’s properly philosophical proposition is neither yet fully known nor understood…

  • Only Asking
  • Only Asking

    Sorry here is the link from the Irish Times.

  • Only Asking
  • Democrat

    Correction: it is OccAm’s razor.
    You must be confusing him with Occum all ye faithful.

  • Alias

    Only Asking, if I was a Shinner, I’d be asking why Gerry Adams’ brother escaped the rough justice meted out by Mr Adams and his murder gang to other paedophiles in West Belfast. One law for the families of the Shinner royalty and another law for the families of the Shinner plebs it seems…

  • Only Asking

    Alias that was the first thing I asked over this, but it could be a case of one exception proving the rule. This young woman went to the police, and then stopped the investigation. If the victim stops the investigation should the rough justice kick in there anyway.

    I love how Malachi says in the comments:

    The allegations against his brother and the revelations about his father would have reflected badly on the republican movement. People would ask, as they do, if it is abuse and trauma that drives republican anger rather than British imperialism.

    Considering Adams lived with the grandmother on the Falls for most of the time and not with his da, anger would definitely accout for anti British feeling wouldn’t it. By extention all republicans are anti british because they came from dysfunctional families.

  • belfast greyhound

    Alais
    Basic point well made and central to how the conduct of Adams should be viewed in his handling of the matter.
    He is not the first politician to have used mendacity in a new and creative way to shroud his actions and maintain a position that would have damaged him politically if generally known about.
    But we have a fuller notion of him now both personally and morally and while some sympathy may be due to the situation within his family none is due to him because of his hypocrisy and they way he dealt with things.
    I suspect ‘damaged goods’ may understate future prospects to be taken seriously when he tries to claim authority to speak about anything with a moral aspect to it.
    The problem is that so few things in a political sense lack a moral aspect so he is going to be very restricted in what he might say

  • regimental 1912

    There has always been deep suspicion that someone at the top table of Republicism was a high profile police informer as the RUC had something undermining on them,I wonder !!!!! mmmmmmm

  • Only Asking

    When malachi talks about his own father he says about his book. ‘It is by no means a love song, but neither does it judge nor condemn’.

    Gerry Adams comes out and tells of his fathers abuse in the family, yet malachi writes in the guardian comments ‘Gerry Adams doesn’t do candour’.

  • “If Gerry Adams were a bishop he would be gone now”

    Surely the wrong analogy. Isn’t Adams the ‘Pope’ of the Provisional Republican Movement? And McGuinness a ‘Cardinal’?

    If a bishop were an Adams or a McGuinness, leaders of a paramilitary movement that had done truly appalling things to children – there’s no need to go into the gruesome detail – he would be feted as a statesman. It’s a funny old world.

  • alan56

    Only asking,

    Surely candour is about being upfront and open, not reacting when a journalist is on the story?

  • Only Asking

    Surely candour is about being upfront and open

    Is Adams not doing candour telling the world his father was an abuser. Is that not being upfront and open? Isn’t Adams judging his father, and condemning him for all the world to see, a father whose republicanism he has written off in the past, and was buried with his memory intact.

    Surely if anyone is being upfront and open Adams is in this instance at least.

  • alan56

    Only asking,

    Point was which you have not addressed is that it is only now that this is happening, when the press are obviously on the case.

  • Only Asking

    Point was which you have not addressed is that it is only now that this is happening, when the press are obviously on the case.

    The press weren’t on Adams’ case re his father, but his neice. He could have dealt with his neices’ allegations against his brother without introducing the fathers abuse. In Aine’s case, the family according to him, went with her to the cops and it took off from there. He has dealt with his role in that, it is far from exemplary, and he admits that. Why bring in the father at all, unless he was laying out the whole child sex abuse issue within the family, which he says was to help other families.

    The neice suspended the investigation, she didn’t bring in the press until now, so I don’t see your point is relevant.

  • Only Asking

    The source said ‘furious’ dissidents had dubbed the politician ‘Archbishop Adams’, a reference to the Catholic Church’s attempts to hide sex abuse by its priests

    Mr Moore, who said Mr Adams’ behaviour ‘stinks of a cover-up’, added: ‘He could have brought it up at any time in the past.

    I don’t see how he could. It was up to the victim how to handle this. I think he’s brought a taboo issue out and that has to be a good thing, and I’d be fearful of living in a society were an allegation against one family member means another family member falls from grace over it. I simply don’t like that aspect of this.

  • “another family member falls from grace”

    Only asking, portraying Gerry Adams falling from grace is a neat line. Perhaps a trip would be a little bit nearer although still a long way off the mark.

  • Only Asking

    Nevin agreed. Wrong phrase. What are your thoughts on this whole issue and how it has developed. It’s a bit like Al Capone going over tax evasion, it’s something and something may be better than nothing, but for some reason Freddie the eldest brother of the De Vito clan from the Godfather keeps popping into my head about this situation;-)

  • I didn’t see the Godfather, Only Asking. My thoughts about two of our local ‘godfathers’ are encapsulated in post #10 above.

  • regimental 1912

    Only asking,GA brought his father into it hoping people would heap sympathy on him and his family,including his brother and as usual trying to put his spin on things,He was attempting to say,my poor brother was abused and this turned him into an abuser,typical SF thing,introduce someone else into the discussion as a deflector.methinks GA was maybe a defector.

  • Only Asking

    reg,

    I agree with you this is being spun, but don’t think its being spun to garner sympathy for Liam Adams, but yes for the rest of the clan – most definitely. On deflecting, yes he deflected from Aine, but other than that, the focus went on child sex abuse and I see that as something good. This whole issue needs aired, and its getting an airing, and that is good.

    I’d much rather see his go for something he did himself, or over the allegations in the Dark’s book, not over something within his own family.

  • Only Asking, when the hullabaloo eventually dies down children sadly won’t be any safer from the activities of paedophiles and paramilitaries.

  • Alias

    Gerry is spinning the ‘victimizer is a victim too’ line here that dovetails nicely with the Eames-Bradley waffle. He is also playing for the sympathy vote and throwing in a red herring to divert attention away Aine’s revelations about his behaviour the day before. Incidentally, the statement that purported to be by the Adams [i]family[/i] was issued by Gerry alone with no other member of the family signing it or confirming Gerry’s very expedient revelation. He was very careful to get some of the families the hunger strikers to sign his ‘please do not investigate the Gerry’s role in this but leave us in peace’ letter but didn’t manage to get any of his own siblings to sign this revelation of its accompanying plea for privacy.

  • Only Asking

    Nevin that would be a shame.

    Alias, you forget one thing, if his family had not agree to what he is doing they’d say so. Look at what happened to Jean McConvilles family and how they became disunited. A family member who steps out of line will get his or her wings clipped usually very pronto. The families of the HS-ers that did not agree spoke out, those that agreed did not, therefore it is imv safe to assume the Adams family have agree that he be spokesperson on their behalf.

  • Alias

    “Alias, you forget one thing, if his family had not agree to what he is doing they’d say so.”

    Why don’t you ask them? 😉

  • Only Asking

    Why don’t you ask them? 😉

    Why don’t you as you raised the point 😉

  • Only Asking

    Why should a person like Adams not be taken as a cheap chancer for demanding truth off everyone else when he personally fails to get answers much closer to home?

    But he did get answers, he stated quite clearly on utv insight that Liam admited his activities to him. That is most likely (and I’m assuming this) the basis of his statement to the police?

  • Only Asking
  • Alias

    DC, as a matter of interest, what was your reaction when you heard Gerry Adams say that his niece “must have justice”? My reaction wasn’t to agree with a self-evident statement but it was a mix of muted anger and disgust. Anger at people who voted for this scumbag and who still act as apologists for him and his ilk and disgust at the man the statement. This is a man who is responsible for some of the vilest atrocities we have seen on this island in our lifetime and who acts to deny justice to a vast amount of people. Still they vote for him and can see nothing wrong in supporting this psychopath.

  • Paul

    the thread title was where does this leave gerry adams.

    It leaves him Gerry Adams with a lot of questions to answer.This whole scandal stinks of a cover up

  • Only Asking

    Anger at people who voted for this scumbag

    So we’ve moved on now from damning Adams to the people who voted for him have we?

    Ruth’s good, I think she likes him;-)

  • Mick Fealty

    Paddy,

    A very interesting set of questions, some of them extremely libellous. Which is why they’ve been taken down on sight.

  • Paul

    I wonder if (only asking) has made him or herself Gerry Adams s/Sinn feins offical spokesperson for this on the slugger otoole site.Its quite comical

  • Paul

    Gerry Adams has stood on platforms defending and suporting one of the most ruthless terrorist groups the PIRA in western europe.His account of never being a member of the IRA well that in it self is lets say questionable this man ADAMS has form.Adams has questions to yet again answer he adams seems to think things can just carry on.Well they cant justice must be done.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I’m reminded of what happened with the McCartney sisters. Initially Gerry Adams embraced them, then when things quietened down a bit they were put out of their home in the Short Strand. I hope it doesn’t go the same way for Aine and her immediate family.

  • regimental 1912

    The bold GA is digging himself further into a deep hole,in his interview he stated that the Perpetrators can never be on a level par with victims,does that include perpetrators who blew to pieces innocent children.On another point,Father Reid stated that he was GA’s private spiritual advisor for over 25 years,where does he lie in the complicity of this horrendous ded,then ther is the wonderful Father Troy who approached the family to coerce the victim into dropping the action.Well it is comforting fot the Roman Catholic community to be able to rely on their clergy.Republicanism’s Kincorra I would say.

  • alan56

    I think this whole thing damages Adams. Despite a valliant effort by’Only Asking’ to spin this as a decent man addressing family issues in a way which helps break a horrible taboo, most political observers, strategists within SF and the public will not like the look of this. Seems like GA has been carrying heavy personal baggage for a man already under huge political stress. Someone is bound to wonder how this all may have affected the outcome of GFA and the subsequent political moves. Wonder what MMcG thinks?

  • “Where does this leave Gerry Adams?”

    Also, where does this leave the devolution of policing and justice?

  • I think alan56 has asked the important question.People in the party will ask now if Adams has has his mind on the job or on other things.
    They will worry that as they gear up to crashing the assembly over policing and justice the big story will be the family life of the party leader.
    And this story will run; I expect Gerry really does want Liam arrested, to pacify Aine and make sure she doesn’t throw any more spanners into the works.
    The sub judice will come into play, but a trial will follow.

    And in the unpicking of the story a lot of young voters who have never really grasped the history of the IRA will learn what a burden it was on the communities it professed to serve.

    If I was McG I would be asking Gerry to step down, if only to leave some little space now for politics.

    And what joy unforseen it will be to watch the channel 4 programme on Gery’s relationship with Jesus. It could hardly be better timed.

  • Alias

    “So we’ve moved on now from damning Adams to the people who voted for him have we? ” – Only Asking

    Not moving on, no – I’ve been damning the muppets who support the Shinners a bit longer than a few posts duration ago. 😉

    Now it has been at least 5 minutes since you last accused a poster of a witchhunt against your bearded beloved, so aren’t you getting a bit tardy? Try JoeCanuck’s tact and express your disgust at those who express their disgust at Gerry instead of Liam, as if we should focus only on Liam and leave wee victim Gerry alone. If that doesn’t work, demand that we move away from our keyboards and go looking for the fugitive or hold a vigel for Aine – anything other than ask questions about the role of the only person in this affair to hold elected office and who is therefore accountable to us for his actions.

  • Only Asking

    What a sad comment malachi. Your whole emphasis is on Adams, and the only reference you make to Aine is that something should happen to pacify her, again about Adams. At no stage have you looked at the issue of child sex abuse, digging at Adams is getting in the way.

    This is not about Adams, it’s about child sex abuse and its mishandling. Or it ought to be.

    And this story will run;

    Of course it will, because you can barely conceal your glee, and there are many more like you. Some very respected people who have criticised Adams over the years, lets hope the respected ones get Adams for something he did rather than the mishandling of a very sensitive family affair.

    I note the Belfast Telegraph writes that early indications from west Belfast are that people blame Liam Adams, and the father, and not the MP. The baying for blood that you and your ilk are doing is the same attitude that helped put away innocents like the Brimingham six.

    And what joy unforseen it will be to watch the channel 4 programme on Gery’s relationship with Jesus. It could hardly be better timed.

    But you don’t believe in all that shit do you? I thought jesus was for sinners, but errr obviously you know more…..

  • Only Asking

    The early signs in west Belfast, which Gerry Adams has long represented at Westminster, are that the episode has come as a huge shock, but that anger and blame is being directed at Gerry Snr and Liam rather than the MP.

    Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/secret-shame-at-the-heart-of-gerry-adams-family-14607455.html#ixzz0aRMEV3Ro

  • Only Asking

    If I was McG I would be asking Gerry to step down, if only to leave some little space now for politics

    I wonder did Gerry ask MMcG to step down when he had the bother of being accused of being an agent.

    Obviously malachi you don’t know the treasure of having a friend in need.

  • John O’Connell

    Malachi

    And in the unpicking of the story a lot of young voters who have never really grasped the history of the IRA will learn what a burden it was on the communities it professed to serve.

    They will aldso learn that these so-called cowardly tough guys came from delinquent backgrounds which tended to imprison the public more than liberate the people, backgrounds of family abuse rather than anything heroic.

    Only asking

    I thought jesus was for sinners I like the mockery. Typical of a defender of a man of dubious values and doubtful pedigree.

  • Paul

    #

    If I was McG I would be asking Gerry to step down, if only to leave some little space now for politics

    I wonder did Gerry ask MMcG to step down when he had the bother of being accused of being an agent.

    Obviously malachi you don’t know the treasure of having a friend in need.
    Posted by Only Asking on Dec 22, 2009 @ 05:42 PM

    Posters and members of the public can see you for what you are.You try in vain to spin and try to get your great leader of the hook you have failed miserably.

  • Seamus

    Lets take the whole issue back a little bit further.
    Gerry`s own words, He believed his niece the minute she told him.
    Somewhat odd for any individual to arrive at that conclusion so fast in relation to an issue of this magnitude, unless that individual was using prior knowledge from past events.