Who is taking the 5th?

Via Mick Hall, there is a piece in the London Progressive Journal on the possibility of a 5th International being convened, mainly by resurgent Socialist parties/groups in Latin America.

It is an unknown if any Irish left groups will sign up. So far, those with former/current Communist leanings seem more inclined to reject the idea – that may mean the Workers’ Party and CPI won’t be interested? Others are affiliated with the myriad of groups/Internationals claiming to be or descended from the 4th International and it remains to be seen if they join:

SWP – International Socialist Tendency
Socialist Party – Committee for a Workers’ International
éirígí – attended International Marxist Tendency (but not members)

Some that claim ‘socialism’ probably (do I mean hopefully?) wouldn’t be considered for membership.

[Any leftie nerd that wants to add the affiliation of other left parties/groups or correct ones I got wrong, please feel free]

  • If the sponsor, Hugo Chavez, is coughing up the air-fare and accommodation, the Popular Front for Norf Lunnun and Real Ale Fanciers (Life President: Malcolm Redfellow) is open to an invite.

    Applications for membership of the PFfNL&RAL; (and self-nominations to the deputation) will re-open as soon as we receive a positive reply to our expression of interest.

  • Prionsa Eoghann

    Haud oan Malky!

    Some of us are life long Socialists and have never exibited any of the mealy mouthed sentiment you are famous for…………………like not wanting to hang Trots. Away wi ye! me’n’ma mucker Hugo have got business to attend wi.

    “No I don’t want first class Hugo ma man, proletariat class to Caracas will dae jist fine.”

  • Different Drummer


    Very simple really: the sect makes good propaganda against Stalinism in the 50s and 60s – recruits a few intellectuals and then some students. The trouble begins when they recruit workers….

    How so?

    Yes you would have thought that was the reason why they existed what they dearly hope for…wrong.

    The main reason why they couldn’t and can’t move on
    and (bloody well) – grow up is because they are so used to being an isolated sect that control of the sect is all.

    So mention whatever group you like – there are more than 57 varieties – in what ever country you like – in any number of configurations you like – the story has been the same:

    If the workers reach anything like a critical mass inside the group they then put proposals on The Way Forward. They are then defeated and expelled by the Founders and their followers and the sect returns to the wilderness.

    With one exception: The Socialist Party as they are Known in the South – or Militant in UK has a membership and leadership that were and are of genuinely working class background.

    Most of their auto-destruct behavior was genuinely a matter of policy and their attempt to pretend that they weren’t really revolutionaries at all especially after gaining power in Liverpool.

    So Mick Kind admin

    I agree, let that be the end of the potted and comic histories of the various groups – if we are going to discuss Trotskyism lets stick to those who are ‘in the running’ here as (s) Ireland at least (along with Portugal) seems to have produced some winners recently they are:

    Joe Higgins of the Socialist party who unseated SF’s Mary Lou in the Euro election.

    and the Socialist Workers Party who have won a few council seats recently. Their leader Kieran Allen has been on various channels promoting/talking about his book:

    ‘Ireland’s Economic Crash: A Radical Agenda for Change’,

    Of interest to Northerners is the fact that he arrived back in Ireland in the early 1970s to stop the party in the south being taken over by Provos that’s why republican militarists call his party ‘Orders From London”.

    I supported Joe’s election as a significant advance but am a member of neither organization.

    Polit Bureau Member signing off

    Over to You Mick

  • I enjoyed Different Drummer @ 10:59 PM until the irony tripped over the edge with:

    Militant in UK has a membership and leadership that were and are of genuinely working class background.

    Presumably that’s all those horny-handed sons of toil, decorating the local bars, after a day of sweated labour at the collegiate chalkface.

    Reminds me of the old one:

    — I sprang from the working class.
    — Well, you made damn’ sure to spring a hell of a long way.

  • Different Drummer

    Yes Malcom thanks for that perhaps I could have put that in a more direct and meaningful way rather than the drab History Man like description so here goes…Delete and insert..

    ‘Compared to the other Trotskyist sects Militant had a membership that was not academic or student in anyway.’

    A one line Marxist-Freudian analysis: Militant are sub-proletarians in need of a father figure.

    Anyway Malcolm have you ever encountered their Belfast based father figure one Peter Hadden MP DSO CBE ?

    In any case a party is what you make it – I really can’t say if the recent crash will help change the in-house culture of these groups – Militant (ie Joe Higgins The Socialist Party) or Allen’s SWP But to be sure any change has to come from outside and sooner rather than later.

  • Rory Carr

    “(do I mean hopefully?)”

    I should certainly hope not, Mark, since this is the single most ill-used adverb in the English language in present times and I wince countless times each day when I hear people come out with such strangulations of the language as: “Well, have a nice Christmas now, hopefully.”

    One cannot have a nice Christmas hopefully any more than one might claim that “‘socialism’… hopefully… wouldn’t be considered for membership.” Instead one may hope to have a nice Christmas or one may hope that an organisation would not be considered for membership. You may hope to have something or hope to be something but you cannot have something hopefully or be something hopefully. There are few verbs to which “hopefully” may be applied correctly to qualify and they usually relate to forms of action which may conclude with some form of result; thus one may travel hopefully (in the hope of reaching a destination).

    I write in the hope that others might take heed and cease this terrible misuse before it swamps us completely but also in the fervent hope that my snobbish pedantry might deter any Trots from commenting from fear that their hopeless grasp of English might be ridiculed.

    The Trots… God bless ’em. “Abandon hope all ye who enter herein!” – that should be their recruiting motto.

  • Different Drummer

    Ah come on now Roy your pedantry has dulled your sense of comic value.

  • Mark McGregor


    Sorry but you are wasting your time. I’m a lost cause (in all senses).

  • Brit

    Chavez is no socialist but an authoritarian populist.

    As far away from socialism as sub-state nationalists or clerical fascists.

  • Different Drummer

    Yes and they would be as good as tantric sex in Tandragee