March tomorrow as Henry calls for a replay!

There is a FAIR PLAY = REPLAY march tomorrow, from Landsdowne Road to the French Embassy, kick off 2 PM.

From the Facebook site

We are protesting against FIFA’s decision not to allow a replay of the France vs Ireland Qualifier. We are calling on the French Football Federation to join our calls for Fair Play to prevail.

We hope at the very least we will highlight to the issue of the need for Video Referreeing in games of this magnitude.

Please Join Us!!!

– BRING FLAGS, BANNERS AND WEAR GREEN

– CONTACT YOUR LOCAL NEWS STATIONS TO MAKE THEM AWARE

– ENJOY THE DAY!!!

Meanwhile the pressure for a replay continues to build. The man at the centre of the storm, Theirry Henry has called for a reply (hat tip Pierre) as have a senior French government minister and David Ginola.

Adds: FIFA invalidates Uzbekistan-Bahrain result; match to be replayed. Slightly different circumstances, but perhaps letter of the law vs the spirit of the law?

  • the future’s bright, the future’s orange
  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Total nonsense we wuz beaten, very very disappointing – but there should be no replay – move on.

    Futurey,

    loved the bit with the mobile phone.

    Ireland to win on Saturday week? Think we should edge it.

  • Mack

    It was Sammy –

    Regardless of whether there will actually be a replay – I think it’s fair enough for people to highlight the injustice with respect to the cheating (esp. given FIFA’s rule changing mid-competition). Football is a hugely important part of our culture, I think it’s wrong for people just to give up and tolerate the deliberate cheating and fouling that goes on at the highest level – where it is beamed into household’s worldwide and it’s proponents are placed on pedestals as rolemodels.

    We don’t want cheats as role models for our children. Soccer has a problem it needs to solve.

  • An Lorgain

    That’s a bit rich from Roy, who walked out on the team because facilities weren’t up to his standards?

  • Mack

    It was Sammy –

    Should there be a replay in all probability France will win it. They’ll go to the finals with the whole country behind them and Henry as a hero. I think they are quite crest fallen at the minute.

    There are other ways this could be dealt with. A draconian punishment to make an example and discourage others, or introduce video replays for referees in televised games. But some form of justice must be done.

  • Mark McGregor

    OMG. We really are trying to live up to that MOPE tag.

    Get over it already.

  • Chris Donnelly

    Mack

    You’ve hit the nail on the head. It appears that most French people would want a replay precisely because they don’t want their team tainted with the tag of reaching the Finals and contesting games under such a cloud. A perfectly fair minded position, and fair play to them.

    I can’t imagine FIFA will change their stance but they should be made to feel very uncomfortable about it, not least given the shenanigans surrounding the announcement to seed qualifier teams, made when it appeared a possibility that Italy and either Russia or Germany would have to go that route- as well as Portugal.

    In the end, the best outcome might be FIFA finally acting to introduce video replay option in international matches- something which has drastically reduced the number of glaring mistakes from sports like tennis, rugby and American football (the latter at college and professional levels.)

    Oh, and as compensation, maybe they could move us up a pot in the European Qualifying draw…..

  • Mack

    Mark –

    I’m not sure that particular tag is directed at southerners, or relevant to this. It’s a football match, it’s not the end of the world either way. But that doesn’t mean we should do nothing, as a morality tail I don’t think it was a particularly acceptable one. Just doing something raises peoples spirits too given the current cirsumstances we find ourselves in.

  • kensei

    Mark

    If we are still on about it in 20 years then maybe MOPE tag might stick. This will blow over in a week. Mack is right that while we have it pressure should be used in order to try and effect change for the future. Unless you think cheating is ok?

  • Msrk McGregor

    ken,

    You’ve clearly not met me. I’ve no problem with cheating. Dishonourable victories are still victories.

  • 6countyprod

    Who said:

    “Ireland benefited from a controversial penalty in their favour in a 2-1 qualifying win over Georgia.”

    “It was one of the worst decisions I’ve ever seen which changed the whole course of the game.”

    “I don’t remember the FAI after the game saying we should give them a replay.”

    Clue: Surname starts with K

  • Mack

    6countyProd –

    It’s not just a dodgy decisions – it’s blatant deliberate cheating made very clear by television. While FIFA still prevent officials from taking advantage of that technology to help stamp it out.

    That Irish players also cheat doesn’t really matter – the problem is the cheating itself and that needs to be addressed. No-one is calling for Ireland to automatically qualify (I’m very sceptical we’d repeat that performance against France).

    Compare the way in which the Bloodgate scandal in Rugby was dealt with – where the officials went to town on the cheats with FIFA’s reaction here – there website was practically gushing about Henry’s pass and Gallas goal yesterday.

    It isn’t sport, it’s gamesmanship. It’s a big issue for us now because it affects us this time – next time it may well be your team that suffers because of cheating. But all the while our kids are learning lessons from football – unfortunately they’re the wrong lessons.

  • The Reincarnation of Paul Revere’s Horse

    To Quote the great Cincinnatti coach Marvin Lewis; You gotta be sh***n’ me.

    Is the flooding and everything else thats wrong with the country not that important, that people would down tools over a football match!

    You’d swear Monsieur Henry murdered someone. Its sport, people break the rules and sometimes get away with it. Referees make mistakes from time to time. Thats just the way it is. A

    ll this bloody hand-wringing, the disgusting “frog” references its all getting embarrasing and even shameful. I’m not sure if we’re in a recession at all if this is all people care about.

    I’m as sport mad as the next man but For Gods sakes.

    What does the World Cup really mean to us anyway! Its an excuse to throw a party and get p*****d. Do we really need one, like?

  • smcgiff

    Keane = Legend. Although, could one of the reporters not mention he signed Paul McShane for Sunderland!

    And as for staring down the reporter whose phone went off… Brilliant!

  • kensei

    Mark

    You’ve clearly not met me. I’ve no problem with cheating. Dishonourable victories are still victories.

    Ah. I admire the purity of spirit, if nothing else. Less forgiveable when the governing body has a lot to say on the topic, though.

    6county

    What, the K that walked out on his country at a World Cup and demonstrated he’s not right in the head?

    That still burns. That was not a high quality tournament, and Keane had basically dragged us through qualifying. We seriously could have went to the semis or final the way that draw opened up.

  • smcgiff

    ‘OMG. We really are trying to live up to that MOPE tag.’

    Bad and all as that is, a lot of supporters from other countries would have redesigned Paris for free after what happened last Wed night.

  • Mark McGregor

    That Keane clip is classic. I’m glad we lost now just because it resulted in that moment.

  • Stephen

    Do I have sympathy for the ROI about a replay? No. It happens every week at every level so what’s special about them? Nothing.

    To protest demonstartes immaturity.

    Should IT be used to stop the cheats? Of course.

    On Sunday Robbie Savage stated he would have no hesitation in putting the ball into the net if it meant his team won. Dean Kiely was sitting beside him and didn’t disagree.

    Meanwhile Eygpt and Algeria are knocking six bells out of each other.

  • smcgiff

    ‘Compare the way in which the Bloodgate scandal in Rugby was dealt with – where the officials went to town on the cheats with FIFA’s reaction here – there website was practically gushing about Henry’s pass and Gallas goal yesterday.’

    Excellent points. The game of soccer is being shown up as a joke. Business first Game Second.

    Yes, Mark – It was almost worth it! 🙂

  • Dave

    Mack, I have some sympathy with your sentiments but I think you’re a couple of decades too late in the debate what function role models perform in society. A glimpse of shocking ain’t too shocking when the biggest pop icon was infamous for touching up little boys and buying their silence with multi-million pay-offs or when supermodels have had more powder up their noses than your average plasterer – not to mention politicians who can be talked about seriously as presidential candidates despite winning large amounts of cash on the horses or having friends who are fond of throwing wads of Sterling at them for no reason other than they’re nice guys. You’d have to be a fool to tell your kids to look at any public figure with anything gaze other than two jaundiced eyes. Role models? Oh boy!

    You could mount a big campaign and stuff but even if you got a result by that means you wouldn’t get it on a point of principle but rather on a point of publicity which would be passed off as principle. You’d end up helping to promote the wrong message, i.e. that fair play has any relevance.

  • Republic of Connaught

    Stephen,

    I don’t see any replay happening unless the French were so ashamed of cheating their way into the World Cup THEY demanded a replay.

    But what happens every week in football is irrelevant. This game and that piece of cheating is worth a precious World Cup spot AND more money to France, or would have been to Ireland, than Liverpool or Man Utd winning a Champions League trophy.

    £100 million it could cost the economy of Ireland; with the North also losing money because over half the people in the north support the 4 province team. How many games ‘every week’ are worth that much money?

    So most people are objective enough to see it wasn’t an ordinary game with so much resting on it.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mack,

    this thread is highlighting the ridiculous idea of marches and petitions and embassies crazy-dog stuff. There should be no replay – if I am offered the final say on this (which I expect to happen imminently) I shall say no feck off and get a grip.

    Regarding ‘cheating’, it is an extremely complicated issue, and I am not convinced of what the best thing to do is – but we are in danger of the protest nonnsense becoming worse that the original act by Thierry. When Neil Back ‘cheated’ against Munster in the Heineken Cup final Munster put it in their locker and have gone on to win the fecking thing twice. Ireland should look to the next one and stop whinging.

  • republic of c

    what happens every week in football is NOT irrelevant.

    The Republic’s draw with France only highlights the case further for video assistance – there’ll probably be another similar situation in the city v l’pool match – infact the greater the hype on the fixture the greater the pressure on the ref who only has two eyes compared to the 120,044 eyes in the rest of the stadium.

    Your team is just another victim of what the ref didn’t see.

  • Republic of Connaught

    That’s a fair point, a wile melee, and it should be introduced ASAP because games of this importance can’t be decided in extra time by cheating.

    Thierry Henry, much as I admire the guy as a player, needs to get a 3 match ban. He can’t be allowed to cheat in front of a world audience and not be punished afterwards.

  • Doctor Who

    Mack

    “It’s not just a dodgy decisions – it’s blatant deliberate cheating made very clear by television. While FIFA still prevent officials from taking advantage of that technology to help stamp it out.”

    Henry said he is not a cheat, Trapatoni , Brady, Duff, Roy Keane insist he is not a cheat. Why do you insist in contunally insulting the man in this way.

    Stop yer crying and grow up.

  • kensei

    Dr

    Henry said he is not a cheat, Trapatoni , Brady, Duff, Roy Keane insist he is not a cheat. Why do you insist in contunally insulting the man in this way.

    Because we saw on TV that he deliberately handled the ball to move it back into play. Twice. And unlike the others listed, we have no need to be diplomatic or equivocate about cheating.

    Plenty of newspaper columnists ahve echoed that sentiment. If he feels they are insultuing him, he could try testing it in court.

  • Doctor Who

    kensei

    “Plenty of newspaper columnists ahve echoed that sentiment.”

    Now you are taking the piss.

    Like the others why can´t you be diplomatic and give the guy the benefit of the doubt? Yes you watched it in slow motion, the actual incident didn´t happen in slow motion, I as a former player to a reasonable level can fully appreciate Henry´s explanation that his hand movement was instinctive.

    Now if you need column inches, try this one from La Marca in Spain.

    “the Irish fans light up any of the big tournaments with their humour, generous nature and sense of fun. Unfortunately they sometimes have a tendancy to whinge even louder than their English neighbours.”

  • Mack

    It was Sammy –

    The petition has garned almost 1/4 of a million supporters at this time – so perhaps not so crazy. I’m not sure it’s a good idea to bring people onto the streets – if it’s done right and has a carnival atmosphere it could be a force for good. If it’s not handled right, and these guys have no experience in this area, it could be a disaster.

    but we are in danger of the protest nonnsense becoming worse that the original act by Thierry

    Hardly, you have a media & online campaign. FIFA could and should take some action now. Whether that is banning Henry for a couple of matches at the start of the world cup (as a deterrent to others) or introducing video replays / a new official behind the goal or even the proposed replay.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/1120/1224259178447.html

  • Mack

    Dr. Who –

    If he didn’t cheat, it’s incredibly unfortunate because it looks for all the world like he did – and plenty of experienced soccer pundits are calling it that. When he spoke after the match, I found his body language very unconvincing when he was asserting it was accident.

    BLINKING. A person who is lying will blink a lot,as blinking seems to correlate to the amount of mental stress we are under. In a normal conversation where a person is attuned to you, he will blink at roughly the same rate as you, often at moments when you pause in your speech. Be wary of someone who is blinking frantically as they speak with you.

    http://www.contactomagazine.com/articles/liarsigns0808.htm

    Watch the video here, 18 seconds to 20 seconds when he says he didn’t do it on purpose.

  • Guest

    Doc,

    Got a link for that La Marca comment?
    I cannot find it.

  • Doctor Who

    Mack

    You really are a desperate man, you need to move on. If you want to call it cheating fine, but it is part of sport, accidental or not.

    The only thing this incident has highlighted is the refs. need help for incidents they miss. A video ref. would have disallowed the goal, with no action taken against the player. Video technology may also discourage cheating or instinctive play or whatever you want to call it.

    Now as for blinking, don´t blink, really don´t blink, blink and your dead, don´t even blink.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mack,

    have you lost all sense – there you have been posting dry old economic data (ok very interesting at times) for months and suddenly somebody handles the ball and you lose the run of yourself.

    Marches and Petitions.

    Petitions are x-factor stuff – probably wont do any harm – but has there been a single well supported march organised to get rid of a corrupt and grossly incompetent government – that is what poeple should be marching about not an unfortunate incident in football.

    One crazy guy with a brick tomorrow – that will do wonders for the reputation of Irish fans.

    Bring back the moving statues all is forgiven.

  • Doctor Who

    Guest

    If you would like to give me your e-mail im sure I can scan it and forward it to you. Every written word is not on the internet, a bit like the Bible I suppose.

  • Mack

    Dr. Who –

    If it was clearly an accidental hand ball then that would be the end of it for most people, certainly for me. All I am saying is that watching the clip it looked deliberate to me, and many others, and his body language was unconvincing when he was saying he didn’t do it unpurpose. As per blinking – it’s the change in the blink rate that is most noticable. Perhaps he is an unfortunate victim here, but most people are making judgements based on where they feel the balance of probabilities lie..

  • kensei

    Dr

    Like the others why can´t you be diplomatic and give the guy the benefit of the doubt? Yes you watched it in slow motion, the actual incident didn´t happen in slow motion, I as a former player to a reasonable level can fully appreciate Henry´s explanation that his hand movement was instinctive.

    Twice? Don’t buy it. Never will. Once and I’d have agreed. The man deliberated cheated. You have a difference of opinion. Fine. I suspect your opinion would be somewhat different if your team was on the receiving end, though.

    Plenty of people have tarnished his reputation with that accusation. He is welcome to test it in court. For just you and me random dudes ont he internet, well disagreements on football are not exactly unknown.

  • Mack

    It was Sammy –

    This stuff is all over the media down here. The march / petition organisers are on the news (even Sky news had it on their website), on the radio (they were on the Joe Duffy show) and even the news stations are running their own petitions. Newstalk.ie have one too (email rematch@newstalk.ie) – they’re forwarding on all the emails to FIFA.

    I have some reservations about the march (and admittedly posted it up pretty quickly), but are you saying I shouldn’t cover this stuff here? This is what people are talking about in work, at home, on the radio, the web etc. The protest is the news story here at the minute – it’s wall to flippin wall.

  • Doctor Who

    Mack

    You are making the judgement on emotions. Perfectly understandable, but it´s emotional nevertheless.

  • Guest

    Doc,

    Would appreciate it.Thanks

    thankyoudoclamarca@yahoo.com

  • Jimmy Sands

    We lost. We’re out. The Taoiseach binging this up at an EU meeting is frankly just embarassing. We were robbed, but no more than we were in ’82. Thems the breaks. Onward and upward.

    And Roy Keane is as much of a wanker as he ever was. How football’s most famous serial quitter has the nerve to accuse anyone else of lacking mental strength is beyond me. Keane doesn’t do mental strength. Just mental. As for his whinge about Delaney, you can imagine the reaction if Ipswich’s chairman was phoning players to let them to bitch about the coach behind his back. Keane should stick to what he’s good at – getting his team relegated.

  • smcgiff

    So, can we all agree marches are pointless and nothing but embarrassment and an exercise in futility.

    There, now, maybe some good will come of this. 🙂

  • Doctor Who

    Im sorry but the hysteria surrounding this incident is nothing sort of astounding.

    Where is peoples perspective.

    We are living in the worst economic cliamte for 70 years, we have been fucked over by the banks, children in Indonesia are earning $1 a day for your Nike and Gap garments, thousands of innocent people continue to die each day in Iraq and Afghanastan, innoncent people are waterboarded every day in American torture chambers, but wait it would be a better idea to organise a march because someone handled the ball in a football match.

    FFS get some perspective.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mack,

    if the statues were on the move in Ballinspittle or whatever it was called then yes you would cover that too – but I wouldnt expect you to add a link on the end saying well actually there was a moving statue in Uzbekistan as well – and there is probably more chance of the immaculate one showing up outside the French embassy tomorrow than us getting a replay.

    If one replay was allowed you would have lawyers, betting syndicates and others quarefellahs crawling all over the shop from now on.

    Irish fans have built up a reputation over decades and we are in serious danger of looking like a bunch of very, very bad and very, very sad losers.

    March on of the fecking Dail and oxter oot the Warriors of Corruption and gross incompetence rather that marching, banana republic style, on the fecking French Embassy.

  • Mack

    Dr. Who –

    I think your slightly removed from this up north. It’s a huge talking point, but we’re not storming the barricades. While you have a view that it wasn’t cheating, I think even globally that is very much a minority view. I haven’t heard it expressed by anyone I’ve actually spoken to here. A huge part of it is also pride at the way the team played, and given that almost all of us down here feel it was cheating – we certainly feel agrieved at that. And I think it is fair enough for us to expect, nay demand, more from sport. There is a PR aspect to this, and surely even those who feel Henry didn’t cheat can understand there is an issue of perception that needs to be addressed?

    By the way, Time magazine have nominated Henry as sports biggest cheat..

    http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1925040,00.html

    It’s relatively clear what the consensus view is, so what to do about it?

  • Doctor Who

    Mack

    “While you have a view that it wasn’t cheating, I think even globally that is very much a minority view.”

    The whole world is a cess pit of injustice, globally people continue to struggle and make sense of the chaos, they don´t give a gnats balls what happened to ROI in Paris the other night or wether Henry is a cad or not. The vilification of a sportsman in a celebrity /society magazine or website, just highlights the lack of perspective people have.

    Move on, find a proper cause and stick to it for you weren´t cut out to be a football fan.

  • Mack

    Move on, find a proper cause and stick to it for you weren´t cut out to be a football fan

    That’s your advice to the entire nation? I suspect many will follow it, in a limited sense, I don’t think anyone will abandon the game. But like I said on another thread – these aren’t the values parents want to pass to kids. I think, unless FIFA takes some action here, so that justice is seen to be done, it _will_ impact football in Ireland. Of course, I doubt FIFA are that bothered about it. But there you go, it’s not like we’re short of alternatives here..

  • Mack

    The International Rule Series is struggling at the moment, after a similar scandal (well Aussies beating the crap out of Irish players). There is some precedent for this type of decline, and FIFA’s soft stance, brush it under the carpet, contrasts with the hard line the FAI took with Derry.

    I’m not that bothered about a reply, and at the root, I don’t think everyone else is either. It’s the lack of justice, the twisted morality tale that is the problem. It’s relatively easily solved too.

  • iluvni

    Duff must cringe when asked if Henry cheated, given he took a dive to get a penalty against Spain in 2002.
    Cant remember the protest marches in Dublin about that disgrace. Can anyone else?

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mack,

    re. “It’s the lack of justice, the twisted morality tale that is the problem”

    Have you been partaking of copious amounts of the wet stuff?

  • Mack

    Only starting now It Was Sammy, Cheatin Pays Mr. SammyMcNally, cheatin pays..

  • Rory Carr

    If the masses in the Republic of Ireland are all so fired up about cheating and resulting loss of status and any potential economic loss as a result of cheating then they would do well to turn this demonstration into a lynch-mob and bedeck O’Connell Street’s lamposts with festive bankers and politicians who have been cheating them since birth.

    But they won’t, will they? The spineless whingers. They are quite happy in their misery. This defeat has come as a Godsend to them as, instead of taking on the real culprits for their present misery, they can displace the blame for all of the woes of their existence onto a player whose skills, grace and dignity they would do well to aspire towards.

  • Fabianus

    It’s only a fucking game, kids.

    This is what’s happening in the real world, not that many boyz would give a shit:

    1.02 billion people across the world are hungry.

    Every day nearly 16,000 children die from hunger-related causes. That’s one child every five seconds.

    So why not go to your MLA/TD/MP and protest that?

    – BRING FLAGS, BANNERS AND WEAR BLACK

    – CONTACT YOUR LOCAL NEWS STATIONS TO MAKE THEM AWARE

    The way to separate the men from the boyz.

  • OC

    Is the French Embassy to be burned down down?

  • A lot of posters on here are obviously not ROI fans or have a passing interest in supporting them from NI. That’s fine. But please spare us your pontificating about “getting over it”, “Duff would have done the same”, “millions starving”, “MOPERY”, “happens every week” etc. If you want to turn the other cheek whenever someone pulls a fast one on you, that’s your business but save us your lecturing on how we should act in regards to Monsieur Henry and his “sportsmanship”. All we’re doing is marching to an embassy to protest something that was blatantly unfair to us (and upset quite a few people overseas). That’s all. No big deal so don’t fret over it. Less civlized fans would have burnt Paris to the ground Wednesday night.

  • the future’s bright, the future’s orange

    To the tune of the hokey-cokey

    He put his right hand inm left hand out
    In out, in out, shake it all about
    He palmed the ball to Gallas
    And he gave it a clout
    and that put the republic out.

    Oooooh terry terry Henry
    Oooooh willy willy Gallas
    Oh silly swedish linesmen
    They put the republic out out out

  • Driftwood

    Less civlized fans would have burnt Paris to the ground Wednesday night.

    Brings back bad memories..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_European_Cup_Final

    But someday I hope to get over it.

  • Paisley Lives

    Actaullym the Sun weighed in with The Hand of Frog on its front page. They gave it huge coverage, no doubt hoping to get on the anti French bandwagon in South Africa.

    As regards the Orange Neo Nazis: remember their treatment of Wayne McCullough from the Shankill. Gutted because he got to the Olympics via the Tricoliur option and too smal minded to rise above their own key beliefs (Shankill Butchers, George Best and the ‘Gers).

  • Doctor Who

    Paisley Lives

    That last post is shocking, the stench of sectarianism in your posts is getting worse.

  • the future’s bright, the future’s orange,

    He put his right hand inm left hand out
    In out, in out, shake it all about
    He palmed the ball to Gallas
    And he gave it a clout
    and that put the republic out.

    Oooooh terry terry Henry
    Oooooh willy willy Gallas
    Oh silly swedish linesmen
    They put the republic out out out

    Not bad but I don’t think Shakespeare has anything to worry about :).

    Driftwood,

    I feel your pain. That Leeds team were once in a lifetime. Sad to see them decline.

  • CW

    No doubt the jokes will be coming in thick and fast:
    What does FIFA stand for?
    Federation of French Inglorious ‘Andballers.

    And there is a multitide of potential for jokes about Henry being a GAA player.

    As Rory points out it’s the FF’ers and the bankers who fucked the country over more than Henry could ever dream of. Yes, the result was disappointing, but shit happens. A lot of things in life aren’t fair, but ’twas always so and always will be.

    QED.

  • so how did the big march go then?

    check it out