‘United’ left defeating fascism?

‘Youth Against Racism’ a group launched by the Socialist Party‘s youth wing is staging a protest tomorrow outside the BBC Ormeau Avenue against Nick Griffinth MEP of the BNP appearing on Question Time.

If you can’t make that protest the Socialist Workers Party is promoting a separate protest outside the BBC Ormeau Avenue against Nick Griffinth MEP of the BNP appearing on Question Time the following Thursday.

If any additional protests are called, for other dates/times by different groups I’ll update you. If they decide to get together and protest as one I’ll also let you know – that is if I can avoid the airborne swine that may appear.

  • Dave

    Ah yes… it’s always wonderful to see idealistic youth campaign so vociferously to censor free political speech.

  • jone

    What time is the Judean Popular Front protest?

  • Brit

    Protest against the ideas values and policies of the BNP, attend the QT audience and heckle, boo and ask challenging questions, but dont call on the Beeb to censor unappealing views or prevent their proponents from speaking.

    The BNP are vile scum of the highest order and if you scratch beneath the surfance of their “respectable” veneear the old white supremacism, outright racism, support for deportations, zero immigration, islamophobia and anti-semitism become obvious. The Party is full of people with a history of Nazi support, holocaust denial, racists attacks etc.

    I think it is less a question of the oxygen of publicity then the blinding light of exposure and challenge.

  • Brit

    And I’m not sure why the SWP are protesting given their alliance with Islamist Fascists in the right against “imperialism”

  • Gerry Mander

    “The Party is full of people with a history of Nazi support, holocaust denial, racists attacks etc.”

    Not so. Many of their supporters are old Labourites, a trend seen in France and elsewhere. The SWP are trots sc-m and Trots entered Barcelona along with the fascists.

    The BNP have some valid points. heir ideas of a reunited “British (sic) Isles” are juvenile but over 80% of new British jobs go to immigrants. And there are toomany immigrants (and too many Brits but that is a different story).

    The SWP do not deserve support. The BNP got over a milion votes. let them skewer the politicanss who are no friends ofanybody.

  • the dowie

    Nick Griffith MEP?

    Maybe by the time of the protest you’ll have worked out who you are protesting about.

  • exile

    It’s hard to know who to despise more: communist scum or racist communist scum posing as the right wing

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    The BNP should have their spake as Brit says and be exposed for their racist views.

    Part of the reason for the rise of the BNP was the lack of debate whenever anyone asked legitimate questions about immigration – that blame lies mainly at the Labour Party’s door.

    The Tories, terrified of being labelled ‘same old Tories’ could not even mention the issue as a result. Now the stuff the Labour party are saying sounds far worse than what they were condemning others for.

  • Brit

    “Not so. Many of their supporters are old Labourites”

    Yes so (see here http://zionistagent.wordpress.com)

    I was talking about members not supporters/voters.

    And as much as I hate the SWP (who are not even consistent Trots but opportunists) it was not the Trots (like POUM) in the Spanish Civil War who committed most of the atrocities on the Republican side but the Stalinists and Anarcho-Syndicalists.

    As for your factual claim that but “over 80% of new British jobs go to immigrants” did you make this up? If you are trying to explain unemployment being caused by immigration then pick up an A level macro economics text book and think again.

    And on what basis have you concluded that there are “toomany immigrants”?

  • Mark McGregor

    the dowie,

    Cheers, I’ll correct that but just because I’m linking it don’t assume I’m protesting. I’m not part of the ‘no free speech for fascism’ outlook.

  • Brit

    “Part of the reason for the rise of the BNP was the lack of debate whenever anyone asked legitimate questions about immigration – that blame lies mainly at the Labour Party’s door.”

    Well Sammy I don’t think issues should be taboo and there should be an open debate, but one which was rational looking at the actual net numbers and the economic benefits and necessit of immigration. Leaving the debate to the likes of the Daily Mail which has daily stories about illegal immigrants and asylum seekers is not a great idea.

    That said I think that the rise of the BNP, such as it is, reflects alienation amongst sections of the white working class who feel forgotten and perceive (more or less inaccurately) that they are treated worse than non-whites, and from pockets of unemployment and poverty. Scapegoats are always popular in difficult econonic times and there is also a protest vote element in the BNP given the general disullusion with mainstream politics and the whole expenses scandal.

    But I don’t think there is a “problem” around immigration nor any prospect of the BNP attracting sizeable support. The places where they have signficant support are largely in those towns and cities in Yorkshire and Lancashire where the non-white population is well established (having been there for decades) and where problems of isolation and lack of integration have given rise to genuine tensions which the Far Right has been happy to use to whip up violence. Their modus operandi of violent attacks to provoke violent response and riots by the local ethnic minority youths has happened in these type of places.

    They don’t offer any kind of solution to those people who voted for them and should be shown up for bigots and mentalists who are never going to help those who misguidedly voted for them.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Brit,

    As we are talking about foreign visitors, let me firstly welcome you to our country via the ethernet/internet whatitsanme – and assure you that just becuase your country has been giving our fine little divided country one up the jacksie for some centuries now does not mean we wont at all times treat you with that famous Irish hospitality as the quareone Hilary probably said a few hundred times yesterday.

    ..it is difficult to have a debate without either the left or the right hijacking it for their own purposes – but better to have an imperfect debate than none at all which is what happened in Britain with the net result that extreme ideas were allowed to develop greater traction.

  • Brian MacAodh

    “And as much as I hate the SWP (who are not even consistent Trots but opportunists) it was not the Trots (like POUM) in the Spanish Civil War who committed most of the atrocities on the Republican side but the Stalinists and Anarcho-Syndicalists.”

    Not sure how the above is relavant, as anarcho-sydnicalists of today (if there are any) can’t be blamed for what happened 73 years ago.

    I agree with you in general, though. The SWP are a joke if they have nothing better to do than fight “fascism”, in their words. They would be much better served by letting the debate go on and asking tough questions, not heckling or shutting it down. What are they so afraid of??

  • Tr puffin stuff

    Brian,

    They are the vanguard. They want to be seen to do something. They dont really care if they achieve anything.

    How embarassing that the nut on TV is being heckled by another set of nuts on the street.

    Are there any grown-ups protesting this interview or must it fall to the ‘radicals” from college playing at Che Guevara.

  • Brit

    “let me firstly welcome you to our country”

    Am I in the Republic? If so its not such a reactionary priest ridden place as I’d been led to believe

    I like it here.

    ;o)

  • Realist

    How can a group that happily will sit on platforms with sinn fein, eta and a range of Islamic groups oppose the BNP i dunno. As much as i find a lot of their policys simplistic and juvenille, they havent actually killed anyone.

    Ok, shouts of yeah but they encourage, and tatic approval, etc etc. But they havent actually killed anyone or advocated a voilent solution to anything!!

    SWP is irrelevant.

    tbh its pratts like the SWP that have elevated the BNP into the public eye. too many people treat the general public like they are stupid. The BNP vote is a backlash to people resenting an obvious bias and campaign against the BNP in the ENTIRE media.

    If the media had given a fair and porportionate platform the BNP wouldnt be where there are.

    But hey…. maybe the powers that be need the BNP?? Maybe they need this crap to divert peoples attention?? Maybe they need to create conflict among different groups to give them space to control us and rip the shit out of us??

    I love it when extreme socialists talk about democracy being the be all and end all, but when someone they dont like gets voted in its ‘bad’ and people are ‘misguided’ etc etc

    Pile of nonsense. I loathe the BNP but they now have a media created mandate- deal with it. Cus free speech is free speech- there arent any conditions.

  • Dewi

    “and Trots entered Barcelona along with the fascists.”

    Hmm – not denying the terrible crimes committed by all sides there but that statement is not true. The POUM fought for the Government.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Brit,

    ‘priest ridden’ might not seem such a bad idea if they let quareones enlist.

  • michael

    How come the media always gets the blame realist?
    The main media union, the NUJ, have a policy of not reporting but challenging the BNP at every opportunity.
    Personally I don’t agree with the policy. Like it or not the BNP were fairly nad democratically elected and the media now have a duty to report on them.
    Reporters can’t pick and chose whether to give someone coverage based on their personal political opinions.

  • iluvni

    Lets hope the PSNI have a plan to ensure the ‘youth against racism’ arent permitted to take their little protest onto Ormeau Avenue itself in order to snarl up the traffic, just in time for the news etc.

  • PN

    What’s the point in protesting? It’s already a BNP propaganda victory.

    Labour and the Lib Dems ought to have refused to send anyone to share a platform with Griffin. Dave’s Conservatives would probably have followed suit.

    Question Time would then have been forced to cancel the programme, since airing a show without any of the three main parties represented would be ridiculous.

    Et Voilà, the BNP would have been prevented from spreading their lies, and all through the simple exercise of people’s right not to appear on television. They couldn’t even claim they were being censored. Of course, they would anyway, but still.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    PN,

    re “Question Time would then have been forced to cancel the programme, since airing a show without any of the three main parties represented would be ridiculous.”

    That would be a propaganda victory for the BNP – they have no diffiuclty spreading their lies we need people to expose them as lies to the biggest possible audience.

  • I for one can’t wait to see the squint eyed little runt getting skewered, if not by the terminally bland (and dangerously authoritarian) Jack Straw, at least by Bonnie Greer.

  • exile

    [i]Et Voilà, the BNP would have been prevented from spreading their lies, and all through the simple exercise of people’s right not to appear on television.[/i]

    Take that thinking to its logical conclusion.

    Hint for the slow learners out there who feel obliged to reject the democratic mandate of a party able to attract almost one million votes: the BNP ain’t the only political party in history to spread lies – the difference, so far, is that the lies spread by NewLab and the Cons cost lives.

  • exile

    [i]I for one can’t wait to see the squint eyed little runt getting skewered, if not by the terminally bland (and dangerously authoritarian) Jack Straw, at least by Bonnie Greer[/i]

    Bonnie Greer will tear him apart.

  • Brian MacAodh

    If he is allowed to talk on Question Time he will make BNP a major political force for years to come.

  • Tandy O’Groud

    Ah the Socilaist Wa*kers Party working to keep violent thugs from getting access to the airwaves.

    I’m sure they must have been 100% behind the broadcasting ban of the 1980s.

    BBC bring it back! Lets have, oh let me think….. Charles Dance doing Nick’s overdub.

  • DerTer

    Here we go again – whataboutery, equivocation, I don’t agree with em, but…

    Gerry Mander: “The BNP have some valid points. Their ideas of a reunited “British (sic) Isles” are juvenile but over 80% of new British jobs go to immigrants.”
    First, list their valid points please. Second, be kind enough to provide an accurate and available source for your 80% jobs claim.

    Brit: “Scapegoats are always popular in difficult economic times and there is also a protest vote element in the BNP given the general disillusion with mainstream politics and the whole expenses scandal.”
    First, you are of course absolutely right about scapegoats; in the US in the 1930s, for example, I’m sorry to say that some US trade unionists actually claimed that it was black immigrant labour from the south that caused the depression (Source: Philip Foner, US labour historian). Second, why should a protest vote go to a bunch of unrepentant fascists unless it is led there by ludicrous stories in the Daily Mail?

    Realist
    “How can a group that happily will sit on platforms with sinn fein, eta and a range of Islamic groups oppose the BNP i dunno.” I dunno either; but whatever about SF and ETA, I think you should be careful to say precisely to what Islamist groups you are referring – otherwise people will think you are saying that all Islamist groups are terrorists.

  • RepublicanStones

    I see Griffin and im reminded of the racist midget in ‘In Bruges’.

    Only by letting the BNP speak on this kind of platform will joe public finally see their emperor is butt naked. Its always good to hear about the town idiot, but is even better to seem him in action.

  • PN

    “the BNP ain’t the only political party in history to spread lies – the difference, so far, is that the lies spread by NewLab and the Cons cost lives.”

    Take that thinking to its logical conclusion and you end up with useless relativism; it should go without saying that were the BNP to obtain any real power the cost in lives would be far, far higher.

    And I’ll repeat for the slow learners: nobody would be rejecting anybody’s democratic mandate. They would simply be exercising their freedom not to appear on a particular discussion programme.

  • Peter Fyfe

    I see Griffin and im reminded of the racist midget in ‘In Bruges’

    So shall we get Colin Farrell to do a bit of karate on Nick Griffin?

  • Archie P

    Tis a wonder the lefties protest at free speech…the BNP rep has as much right to appear on the programme as any of the assorted Socialist Workers, looney lefties, IRA terrorists in suits etc but no protests when those who are far more dangerous to society than a handful of BNP members. At least Griffith and company haven’t committed / supported the committing of the murder of over 1700 innocent people as those from the Sinn Fein/IRA are guilty of.

  • igor

    “just becuase your country has been giving our fine little divided country one up the jacksie for some centuries now”

    Sammy

    I have to challenge you on this. You are using this in a pejorative way as though to suggest it is improper or exploitative. Frankly, that is discriminatory against those who like it that way.

    I think you should apologise for implying that gay sex between men is, for example, less worthy or more abusive or exploitative than heterosexual sex.

    Amazingly the check word Slugger has served up for this post is ‘straight’

  • Darren J. Prior

    Youth Against Rascism are independent and not run by the Trots, unless of course they have hijacked the name to use it as a front organisation which wouldn’t surprise me in the least.