“They are a dysfunctional office in a dysfunctional Executive..”

As I mentioned yesterday, before someone at the BBC intervened, the Northern Ireland First and deputy First Ministers are in Downing St today to hear the offer from Gordon Brown on future funding of devolved policing and justice. The BBC reports that Peter Robinson wants potential future government agreement too. The Conservatives have responded – “We cannot give any guarantees on any spending programmes.” And there’s this from the BBC report

However the SDLP’s justice spokesman, Alban Maginness, said the problem was not one of finance, but was due to the failure of the DUP and Sinn Fein “to reach any agreement on any major issue”. “They are a dysfunctional office in a dysfunctional Executive and they are not delivering to the people of Northern Ireland” he said.

So why devolve justice in this context?Continued from the BBC report

Alban Maginness said the first and deputy first ministers were “completely and utterly polarised” over the devolution deal and he blamed the “flawed” St Andrews agreement.

“St Andrews was effectively an illusion as far as the transfer of policing and justice was concerned and the British Government, and indeed the Irish government, did everything possible to get the DUP over the line and that included misrepresentations in relation to the transfer of policing and justice” he said.

Indeed it was. And it was intended to be for one party’s benefit in particular. As both governments know.

So what next?

Update Come back next week.

Adds And some comments from OFMDFM

Speaking afterwards, both ministers said some progress had been made. “I think everybody recognises that it is important that we get these matters right,” Mr Robinson said. “No-one should be rushing towards the devolution of policing and justice in circumstances that leave us without the necessary funding.”

However, Mr McGuinness said his party wanted a deal concluded as soon as possible because a general election could leave them negotiating with a different party. “I don’t know what the next government is going to be,” he said. “Is it going to be a Labour government? Is it going to be a Conservative government? “What we have to do as politicians is conclude a deal now.”

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  • Scaramoosh

    “They are a dysfunctional office in a dysfunctional Executive and they are not delivering to the people of Northern Ireland”

    This should read;

    “They are a dysfunctional office in a dysfunctional Executive and they are not delivering to a dysfunctional people.”

  • DC

    They are functioning people for sure, they made their way to the ballot box alright.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Shrewd tactical move by Robbo with the UUP trying to outlflank the DUP by saying they were against the Transfer of Police he has now outflanked them by talking directly to their masters. Given that the Tory policy on the transfer is one of support when the community in Norn Iron are ready for it, they should therefore meet their financial responsibilities. (Equally, the Labour Party cant pretend they didnt know the cost of what they promoted as their own Norn Iron policy.)

    So either the Tories will supply the necessaries and the UUP will just have to fall into line or the Tories will declare themselves an anti-agreement party with all the resonance of the playing of the Orange card with the corresponding boost to Republican dissidents.

    Nationalists will await with interest as Unionism is either kept in line by the British or the incoming Tory government decides to ignore the lessons of history. PoshboyDC may sound like he spends most of his time in the Drones Club (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drones_Club) – but surely he is not that stupid?

  • Bruiser

    Is it not time the SDLP withdrew from this dysfunctional executive?

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Bruiser,

    the SDLP withdraw? Its just opportunistic bluster – as you would expect from a party smarting from seeing its electoral base disappearing under its feet.

    No doubt they are claiming their own party is doing a great job in government at the same itme as saying government doesnt work. Complete contradictory jibber-jabber.

  • fair_deal

    I am having difficulty taking the Sinn Fein for real to be perfectly honest. Stormont is the only show they have right now. The grand strategy that seemed to underpin their approach to the peace process has fallen apart at the seams.

    No one is going to be thanking them for a political crisis – Brown has a likely doomed election campaign to worry about (Cameron will be wanting to get on with other things if it is him) Cowen has the worst financial crisis in the Republic’s history (plus a possible election if coalition partners lose their nerve).

    Or is it that the crisis in strategy is the motivator? Grand plan falling apart but no new ideas to replace it so work up a political crisis as a distraction?

  • fair_deal

    Addition/omission

    First line
    “taking the Sinn Fein threat of elections”

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    However stupid Dave is, we can all agreed he’s that little bit less thick than ould Slabbery up there. What with ould Slabbery having assured us – amongst a million other gems – that P&J has already been transferred. It happened last year. And it happened because, had in some mad, fantastical, mentalist world, it *not* somehow happened, Sinn Five would, Slabbery assured us, have withdrawn from the executive and ‘pulled the institutions down’.

    And Slabbery, one other thing: obviously you can’t be bothered to tell new lies, and are determined to stick with the staples, but here’s the thing: if you accuse anyone of ‘complete contradictory jibber-jabber’ ever again, your ars* will fall clean off. As that’s what happens to folk who talk out of theirs quite as much as you do. And as none of us in the sane community want that on our consciences, shush.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    fair_deal,

    “No one is going to be thanking them for a political crisis”

    Least of all the DUP – who will be facing the threat of a triumpant TUV in whatever elections follow. SF will be boosted, as they always are when Unionists (or Unionist in conjunction with the British) say NO – best for Robbo’s own sake to push on.

  • Bruiser

    I feel that if the SDLP are of the opinion that the executive isn’t working then simply get out of it. If it doesn’t have confidence in the system, go into opposition and come up with an altenative. The difficult with this is that they’ll be exposed as a party lacking any coherent direction and real change-making policies.

    Unfortunately being in government, no matter how dysfunctional, gives the SDLP a much needed role. Take that away and they have little else going fo them.

  • Driftwood

    Owen Patterson’s non-committal response is effectively a ‘no way are we paying obscene amounts of money for a white elephant’. If these powers are to be devolved, then we can pay for it ourselves.
    And, political manouvering aside, if anyone can list the obvious benefits of devolving these powers to people here, I’d like to hear them.
    Big spending cuts are coming and Stormont will not escape. 12 departments and they want to add another!! Why not shut down the Cancer centre at the City hospital and the Coronary Care unit at the RVH to pay for it. See how people react.

  • fin

    as nationalists rapidly lose confidence in the GFA, Stormont, Sinn Fein and the ‘Union’ I wonder which of the more hardline nationalist organisations standing in the wings will unionism find themselves having to work with in a few years,

  • fair_deal

    Sammy

    “who will be facing the threat of a triumpant TUV in whatever elections follow.”

    1. The DUP will take a hit but the DUP facing an election because they said no to sinn fein is as probably as good an intro to a campaign as they can get in terms of the TUV. The DUP facing an election next year against the TUV after devolving P&J is the electoral threat with the greater potential if recent form is anything to go by.
    2. Think that electoral logic through, an assembly returns with the DUP and UUP within a few seats of one another and the TUV with a presence. How does that new landscape get them any closer to the devolution of P&J? It makes it less likely not more. Which begs the question why would they want to engineer such a situation?

  • Bruiser

    It’s a bit of an amateur move by Robinson to ask the Tories to give a committment on spending of policing and justice as they have flatly refused to comment on what they will cut in public spending.

    It’s just another Northern Ireland politican playing politics and making an ass of himself in front of real politicans.

  • elvis parker

    Indeed Bruiser. Asking someone to guarantee a deal without any details is crazy!

  • joeCanuck

    L(U)T,
    There should be an equivalent Godwin’s Law for silly name callers.
    It’s hard to take seriously anyone indulging in that behaviour.

  • fair_deal

    Elvis

    “to guarantee a deal without any details is crazy”

    It is indeed crazy neither was it asked for what is being sought was specific “to approve any financial package offered by the prime minister.”

  • bob wilson

    Commenting, Owen Paterson said:
    “We fully support the devolution of policing and justice powers to Stormont when all parts of the community are happy with the arrangements. It is up to local politicians from all parties to decide on the process and timetable for the transfer of these powers.
    “We believe in devolution so we are not involved in the detail of these discussions. We are also not involved in the negotiations between the Executive and the Labour Government. Furthermore we have not had detailed discussions with any of the local parties on the financial package.
    “When a detailed proposal is published we will comment. Given the dire economic position it would be irresponsible to make any major financial commitments without knowing the detail.
    “All I can assure you is that we will do the right thing for Northern Ireland and that we will be responsible.”

  • DC

    Fair Deal I call it neuropolitik.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    It is reasonable for the DUP to seek approval for the deal they cut with the current government – it also serves to force the Tories out into the open on this issue and is probably also aimed at discomforting the UUP and showing the pointlessness of their ‘special relationship’ with the Tories.

    There should be a bi-partisan approach by the Tories and Laobur otherwise the excellent work of both of them when in government may begin to unravel.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    fair_deal,

    SF dont want to engineer a collapse – they have been patiently working with the DUP to avoid it. But, this just happens to be a line in the sand for them(quite rightly) and if any combination of Unionists and British governments conspire to backtrack on the GFA/STA then Stormo will have to go.

    Bob Wilson,

    As Marty has met with Owen in Marty’s office (great image of Owen knocking on the door and Marty telling his secretary “keep that fecker waiting a few minutes” and then welcoming him to Ireland*) and there can be little doubt he has sounded him out. The Tory statement suggest they will find a form of words to keep everyone nice and happy except perhaps the ever unfortunate Wee Reggie.

    *Does Marty have a tricolur flying in his office?

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    Of course Sinn Five, and more importantly, their masters in Thames House, don’t want a collapse, let alone, ahem, have any hopes of “engineering” one. That’s what you were told, oh so patiently in 2007. But of course you assured us that the reverse was the case, Slabbery, me ould mucker. You jibber-jabbered that P&J would be transferred no later than 2008, otherwise Sinn Five would withdraw from the Executive and, thus, somehow, ‘pull the institutions down’. Telling the same lie – ‘SF will do *terrible* things unless youse all do what they say’ – but just changing the date for said lie does not a new lie make. How many times do you need telling: new lies, please, or, smarter lies, but for Gawd’s sake, stop embarrassing yourself with this guff. We’re almost tired of laughing at you.

  • fair_deal

    IWSM

    “SF dont want to engineer a collapse – they have been patiently working with the DUP to avoid it. But, this just happens to be a line in the sand for them(quite rightly)”

    So we will have a ‘line in the sand’ collapse not just an ‘engineered’ one.

    Other than a denial you haven’t answered the premise “How does that new landscape get them any closer to the devolution of P&J? It makes it less likely not more. Which begs the question why would they want to engineer such a situation?”

    “conspire to backtrack”

    What parts of STA are being backtracked on?

  • fin

    “*Does Marty have a tricolur flying in his office?”
    Possibly on breezy days when he has the window open

    Its a bit unfair that P&J won’t be devolved untill everyones happy for it to be. However the fact that almost 50% of people are unhappy that it hasn’t been devolved doesn’t count.

    I imagine there are quite a few IRA agents currently in the PSNI and NIO, I wonder how things will pan out in a return to war

  • Quagmire

    A few weeks ago in the Irish News someone had an article, think it was Dennis Bradley, calling upon SF to make its mind up in terms of choosing whether it was a political entity or a vehicle/platform for Irish Unity. He argued that it could not be both. If P&J is not devolved by Christmas I think they should choose the latter, remove themselves from the political arena as it where on the basis of Unionist intransigence, and in the context of Joint Authority, let the two Govts press ahead with All-Island integration/harmonisation, the Irish language Act and the All Island economy etc etc. It has become very evident that Unionism cannot and/or will not share power with nationalists on the basis of equality. If Stormont falls it will never be back and Unionism will only have itself to blame.

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    How did this ‘war’ of yours pan out last time Fin? Other than, you know, ‘Republicans’ being paid their British salaries in public, partition, the Union, the nothern statelet, crown forces all still in place, the Provos disarmed, and, we’re also told, disbanded, and, with each passing day, the the dear old Republic making it plainer and plainer, in word and deed, how little it ever wants to have anything to do with northern nationalists. Fanboy, keyboard onanists should probably best, in the wise words of Peter Kay, think on.

    Or maybe I’m wrong, and maybe you too will get the chance to murder someone eating a pizza! The sky’s the limit from there: toddlers, dog-handlers, your fellow, uh, ‘warriors’, when you’re manipulated by the corrupt, self-enriching traitors above you actually working for the British. Such larks.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    fair_deal,

    How will a collpase bring Police and Justice any closer ? It wont, but as Quagmire suggest above, and Robbo and Deputy Dodsy keep telling us the alternative will not be to Unionist’s liking.

    Everbody bar the UUP and the TUV are working to deliver the transfer of Police and Justice – when and if the DUP stop their good work in that direction they will called to account for not fulfilling their obligations under the STA.

  • fair_deal

    IWSM

    While it is fun to analyse the party political maneouvering the issue, the basis of them needs to be remembered, Unionist voters seem either disinterested or opposed to the idea.

    “Robbo and Deputy Dodsy keep telling us the alternative will not be to Unionist’s liking.”

    I no longer think Joint Authority is the automatic ‘next’ step it once was and that argument will not as reliabel for the DUP to use. It is certainly northern nationalism’s preferred scenario but that doesn’t make it inevitable.

    “their obligations under the STA”

    Repetition, what obligations?

  • fair_deal

    Quagmire

    “on the basis of equality”

    Non-compliance with wishlists = Inequality. Balls. Sinn Fein are in the government structures in the same basis as the SDLP, DUP and UUP. An inability to work the structures to maximum effect or lack of willingess to engage in political horse-trading to maximum effect is not Unionism’s fault.

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    Will, Slabbery, their being ‘called to account’ work out much the way your being called to account for all your jibber-jabber does? Good-o.

    But while we’re at it, Slabbery, here’s some free creative writing advice (you’re such a gift to unionists on Slugger, I really do feel you deserve something in return): when an author decides to tell a story, unless he’s *hugely* gifted, he needs to keep his narrative details coherent. Thus, to take an example at random, were one to, oh, claim that ‘the DUP’ (a fictional entity one can project fantasies upon) was against something – let’s say, the transfer of P&J, you know, the way ould Slabbery has assured us for years that the Paisleyite hoors are agin it – you kinda need, in order to retain even basic credibility in the eyes of the reader, to stick to that line. And especially so, for instance, if you’ve also in the past decided to invent a wider back story where said make-believe outfit, “the DUP”, are entirely isolated in this stance, with everyone else being against them in the matter of this P&J business. Should you suddenly, and for no very convincing reason, suddenly invert that scheme, and have “the DUP” in favour of the transfer, whilst, and equally without credible explanation, the UUP and the Tory party (2 more fictional characters) are against it, you risk coming across as – and I’m using a technical literary term here – a feculent shute of steaming sh*te. And we wouldn’t want that.

    Or. More. Slowly:

    Make. Stuff. Up. Obviously. But. Make. Plausible. Stuff. Up. Otherwise. You. Seem. A. Tit.

  • Quagmire

    “Non-compliance with wishlists = Inequality. Balls. Sinn Fein are in the government structures in the same basis as the SDLP, DUP and UUP. An inability to work the structures to maximum effect or lack of willingess to engage in political horse-trading to maximum effect is not Unionism’s fault.”
    Posted by fair_deal on Sep 16, 2009 @ 05:19 PM

    No Irish language Act, No to the Maze/Long Kesh project, No to the 11+ proposals, Derogatory comments such as leprechaun language in reference to Gaelige, Empey’s comments about a Nationalist P&J Minister etc etc. Whats the point like? Is there anything Unionism will agree to? I mean the sky is hardly gonna fall in if there is an Irish language Act. It seems proposals are not vetoed because of their substance but rather because they come from Nationalist MLAs. So my friend, what is the point? We got it up and running, we gave it a fair wind but in the end,as usual, Unionism cannot come to terms with the new realities i.e. the days of prevention of cruelty to birds acts and croppy lie down are over.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    fair_deal,

    the DUP have signed up to working towards the transferring of Police and Justice to Norn Iron and are obliged to work in good faith to do so.

    At the moment they are doing as required, if and when they stop doing that they will be in breech of their obligations.

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    Let’s hope a.) that the DUP show the same ‘good faith’ towards the transfer of P&J that Sinn Five did towards the Provos being disarmed & b.) that the consequences for the DUP in their non-breach of these non-obligations are at least twice as serious as dear old SF’s were.

    BTW Slabbery, you only misunderstood something there, you didn’t actually manage to make something up: are you feeling okay? As Unionism’s not-so-secret weapon on Slugger, we wouldn’t want you to spend even an hour away from the keyboard. Mind you, if anyone was ever going to catch swine fever, it’s yer man with all dem pork pies up there! Boom! boom!

  • fair_deal

    Quagmire

    “No Irish language Act”

    Nope because Unionism worked the structures better. It took the ministry responsible, an option open to Sinn Fein which they did not. Nationalism has also singularly refused to offer anything to explore the option of trading to get it preferring the gripe. A textbook example of SF’s inability to work the structures or trade to effect their agenda.

    “No to the Maze/Long Kesh project”

    The lack of a white elephant at the Maze is an inequality, hmmm?

    “No to the 11+ proposals”

    Incorrect they offered an interim approach while the issue was re-examined. The abolition of the 11+ is an example of SF using the system unfortunately the mess that has resulted hasn’t done them or anyone else for that matters.

    “Derogatory comments such as leprechaun language in reference to Gaelige”

    IIRC the leprechaun language comment was made in 1987, has someone said used it again recently? Would you like some of Squinter’s greatest hits about Ulster-Scots?

    “Empey’s comments about a Nationalist P&J Minister”

    Nationalism won’t agree to a Unionist minister holding it either, so no difference or inequality there.

  • Big Maggie

    So let me get this straight. It seems like only hours ago I was discussing the very first Executive with someone on Slugger. Oh wait, it was only hours ago.

    That was the Trimble-Mallon Assembly. It was dissolved on account of the IRA’s stalling on decommissioning. That act was part of the agreement.

    So was/is P&J. My question: Are we in such a precarious place now, that the present Executive could be likewise dissolved in the absence of P&J?

    If so, we’d all better watch out. Especially in light of the ongoing psychopathic wankers’ dissident Republican jockeying for pole position in the Republican stakes.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    BM,

    You must be fair to the Unionist Paddies – they have been force fed this agreement by a state to which they remain loyal that has no declared ‘strategic interest’ having handed over their constitutional future to ALL the people of Ireland.

    We must be patient (like Marty has been with Robbo) and through a series of gentle nudges (ie threats from the Englezes as admitted by the Robbo and Deputy Dodsy) help them slowly down the GFA/STA path.

    fair_deal,

    I take it you are now in agreement on the DUPs obligations on the transfer of Police?

  • Big Maggie

    Sammy,

    “the transfer of Police”

    Wonderful. Are we going to lose this useless lot who spend 60% of their time in the shop? Who’s going to be transferred here? I do hope it’ll be real cops in the Gene Hunt mould.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Good thinking – there could be quite a lot demand for the quareone Alex as well.

  • Big Maggie

    Sammy,

    Naw, the fragrant Keeley is otherwise occupied, earning a crust from Boots No7 :^)

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    I dont want to slide off-topic into controversial and umseemly territory but Alex does seem to have cultivated something of a look which suggests that she would be an excellent recruit for either side here in the ongoing demograpichics race.

  • Big Maggie

    Sammy,

    Be honest now: you’d just like to get into her knickers. All that philosophizing and social comment doesn’t fool me for a moment :^)

  • fair_deal

    IWSM

    “I take it you are now in agreement on the DUPs obligations on the transfer of Police?”

    Whatever gave you that idea? You are simply repeating a point and providing no substantiation of it. I’ve had another gander at St Andrews and the Belfast Agreement and cannot find what you claim is there.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    re. into her knickers.

    That reminds me of the old chestnut – I cant wait to get home to take the wife’s knickers off -they are fecking killing me.

    But yes, I cant deny the substance of your discerning interpetation of my remarks above.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    fair_deal,

    are you suggesting there is no reference to Police and Justice in the STA?

  • joeCanuck

    the problem was not one of finance

    No, but it’s a great excuse. Since beggars can’t be choosers, perhaps devolved Assemblies need to be given tax raising powers (with a reduction in Westminster taxes,of course, to make the starting point tax neutral).

  • BonarLaw

    SammyWhatever

    I thought we we talking about obligations not references. Guess I was wrong…

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    BonarLaw, Fair_Deal

    If the DUP have agreed under the STA to work towards the transfer of Police would you describe that as an obligation?

    No wriggling permitted.

  • BonarLaw

    Sammy

    No misrepresentation permited.

    Paragraph 7 of the St Andrews Agreement:

    “Discussions on the devolution of policing and justice have progressed well in the Preparation for Government Committee. The Governments have requested the parties to continue these discussions so as to agree the necessary administrative arrangements to create a new policing and justice department. It is our view that implementation of the agreement published today should be sufficient to build the community confidence necessary for the Assembly to request the devolution of criminal justice and policing from the British Government by May 2008.”

    DUP?

    Obligation?

  • Driftwood

    to work towards …

    What a wonderful turn of phrase. Entirely meaningless without a set timeframe, but ultimately of no concrete value. We could all ‘work towards’ ending all injustice on planet earth,establishing an end to all wars, eliminating all poverty, getting Leeds Utd back in to the Premiership…
    Well maybe the last one is asking too much, but
    probably more meaningful to more people than devolution of p&j to a village green preservation society.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    BonarLaw,

    “The Governments have requested the parties to continue these discussions so as to agree the necessary administrative arrangements to create a new policing and justice department. ”

    …and the DUP being a politcal party has signed up to the STA. They are obliged to deliver what they have signed up to.

  • InToTheWest

    “I no longer think Joint Authority is the automatic ‘next’ step it once was and that argument will not as reliabel for the DUP to use. It is certainly northern nationalism’s preferred scenario but that doesn’t make it inevitable.”

    I think the British Goverment would be happy to get rid of NI plc.

    You are correct a UI is not inevitable but the UK will cut funding to this place till the point where it does not cost the English any money….and that is inevitable……

  • BonarLaw

    Sammy

    keep up. The administrative arrangements have been agreed, a date for transfer has not.

  • LURIG

    It’s not A Level physics. The DUP & UUP are dragging politics out to the next Westminster election in the hope that a right wing anti-Nationalist Conservative government is returned. Everyone knows the Tories are still the arrogant colonial Little Englanders they always were and some Unionists want to replay this. It is ridiculous, no matter what happens in the next Westminster election the two communities are still going to have to live and share power together. Sinn Fein’s reputation within Nationalism is not very good but they always get a boost when Robinson, Allister and Empey spout their tribal nonsense. It’s no wonder Alban and his SDLP colleagues tear their hair out. Sinn Fein don’t have to do very much when these Unionist dinosaurs are about. There will be NO rewriting of the GFA; there will be NO return to Unionist majority misrule and Nationalists will play a full part in ANY devolved administration here. However I would also add that Mark Durkan didn’t help matters much when he gave that ridiculous speech last year encouraging weighted majority rule. It was a Godsend to Unionists. As I said last year Durkan was very irresponsible with his words and should realise they have done a lot of damage. I still think he should have resigned as he lost a lot of respect within the Catholic community for that, many still with bitter memories of the past.

  • fin

    probably fair to say that nationalists are well into the boredom phase of dealing with unionism in Stormont and a sizable percentage are looking outside of politics for the next step forward. Sinn Fein, are unless they pull something out of the bag, the new SDLP, now who is the new Sinn Fein?

  • Driftwood

    no matter what happens in the next Westminster election the two communities are still going to have to live and share power together.

    They can do that at our national parliament at Westminster. Under a UU/Tory government. Anyone who doesn’t like this arrangement should write to their MP and tell them so. That’s democracy!

  • feck off ye ignorant gobshite

    [i]probably fair to say that nationalists are well into the boredom phase of dealing with unionism in Stormont and a sizable percentage are looking outside of politics for the next step forward.[/i]

    Can you offer any evidence to substantiate those claims?

  • LURIG

    Ah Driftwood this word democracy that Unionists keep banging on about. Didn’t Carson leave politics because he didn’t want partition of the island? He wanted one united country within the British Commonwealth which in the long run would probably have been a better solution. Eventually Britain capitulated and imposed partition which was NEVER put to the entire people of the island; democracy and the Northern statelet are misnomers. Today the North is still an illegitimate state like Israel and we reap the bitter harvest of that. However I would bet my house that once Nationalists are 50% + 1 in the North Unionists will turn their backs on ‘democracy’ and impose a campaign of violence against the wishes of the majority. In such a scenario the British will have to involve the UN and Irish unity will officially begin, the UN will NOT go against majority wishes and a unified island under NATO would suit the West anyway. Unionists will eventually bring about a United Ireland NOT Nationalists.

  • feck off

    [i]I would bet my house that once Nationalists are 50% + 1 in the North Unionists will turn their backs on ‘democracy’ and impose a campaign of violence against the wishes of the majority.[/i]

    In that case it’s a good job that such a profound demographic change will never actually come to pass.