“Maybe that is the most worrying part of the story.”

The BBC report that the deputy chief constable, Judith Gillespie, is to meet some of the eight officers who came across that paramilitary checkpoint in Meigh, south Armagh. Which should be an interesting conversation.. Meanwhile, Malachi has some further thoughts on the display.

One thing can be said with confidence about the decision of dissident republicans to mount a checkpoint in South Armagh on Friday: they had made the judgement that it would be safe for them to block the road and to display weapons in the open air. That judgement was vindicated. They were right.

Adds Thanks to fair deal in the comments. It might not be the most worrying part of the story after all. The BBC’s Vincent Kearney has seen an internal PSNI report on the state of policing in Northern Ireland.

It said police were not delivering an effective service and had lost sight of what was important to communities. The report said officers in districts spend an average of 61% of their time in stations on administrative tasks. It said the PSNI does not provide “an effective 24-hour policing service” because officers are not deployed when and where needed. The report, labelled restricted, was intended exclusively for an internal police readership, which probably explains why the language used was so frank.

, , , , ,

  • fair_deal


    Possible Update

    Leaked internal PSNI report that is pretty scathing about how the police are performing across Northern Ireland.


  • DC

    Policing has gone to shit here.

    A mate of mine was hit in a bar in Carrick. He knew his attacker by a local nickname, the attacker has UDA connections. The person assaulted hazarded a guess at his first name, which turned out to be right.

    But, police were called, they came from Newtownabbey and werent able to distinguish the attacker from his UDA nickname, despite so im told the attacker having been in bother with the police before. And should be known regardless of full name.

    Now if the police were on top of things and knew the area and had an interest in the who’s who of physical/political/street violence then things might be different.

    Also, people don’t have the confidence to use the CJ system against ropey paramilitary connections or such likes.

    The PSNI is in a mess. Sure for say fraud, internet crime and car crashes, the easy desktop stuff things are a good deal better; but, given N Ireland is full of right-wingers, wingnuts and assaulters you’re best to take the law into your own hands or just forget it. Unless you are a person of high net wealth with high electric fences with highly pricey home security.

    The police should recruit locals who care, they’d do a far better job in terms of having knowledge and passion. By all means train them up in low level constable positions within the realm of human rights and let them on the streets.

    It’s a fucking joke, even those who are in the police deny it but take the money, they come in with a hell of a lot of uniform and communication equipment but just tend to come across as outsiders and foreign bodies.

  • DC

    Just to summarise, how about let’s not police with the community but just employ the community as police.

    There’s no point in having and taking responsibility for things without power.

    And that situation in Larne, bringing those people to the door was an absolute fucking disgrace, I’m in a good mind to bring a group of PPS Protesters (at the shambolic state of it) to the door of the former Lord Chief Justice in one of the houses near to Stormont.

    I wonder if the PSNI would escort us all there as in Larne.


  • At least the cops are acknowledging there are serious problems. The question is what are they going to do about it, both in terms of resources and the internal culture of the force.

  • DC

    Gari, yes. I suppose it’s good Sir Hugh didn’t get the MET job, as upon reflection he didn’t deserve promotion.

    Even Ronnie Flanaghan, who said he would fall on his sword over Omagh failure, didn’t do just that neither did he communicate humility.

    Weak, weak, weak

  • I think that we were used to such a massive amount of policing, added to paramilitary attempts to control crime, that the drastic reduction of both in a short space of time has proved a great shock to the system. We are getting the same rubbish service that people get all over the UK (and in the south too for that matter). I think there is a systemic problem that goes beyond individual leaders to the issue of resources and culture within every force – paperwork, health and safety, massaging stats etc.

  • DC

    It’s about the style and structures, it doesn’t take a massive amount of thought to say for instance in the case of my mate being assaulted: “hang on, Ill radio through that nickname to see if other officers know the full name and then run it past you to see if it rings a bell.” At least that might have shown a bit of conviction and due diligence.

    It’s also the big disconnect from the people the police ‘serve’ and it’s down to trust and getting people who actually, really want to serve.

    A case in point is Raymond McCord. He went for the Victims Commissioner post but was told that he didn’t fit the bill probably because of spelling and grammar – if not accent. Or perhaps a few typos in the application form.

    But, I’m sure his type of character and drive is replicated out there in the community yet you get a bunch of uniformed university graduate types who rubber stamp your NIO claim forms, if the PPS can be bothered to take the view that there is enough evidence to even run it through the courts.

    Oh I left out traffic offences, the police are good at that too. Usually doing a 50mph commute in a 40 zone when the schools are off.

  • Driftwood

    I suppose I shouldn’t comment after getting done for driving in a bus lane (7.30-9.30 am) at EXACTLY 9.30 am by an enthusiastic cop who also told me how cold he was, and was slightly apologetic.
    However, witnessing an assault (domestic)by someone carrying a knife wasn’t of any interest to Plod who never bothered to contact any witness to the event. To be fair it was after 5pm.
    Easy money for what is now a civil service bureaucracy.

  • DC

    Exactly Driftwood.

    Little Hitlers as traffic cops whereas an injection of water would give a bigger backbone to those investigating physical/paramilitary-ish assaults.

  • frustrated democrat

    So now Patten has essentially been implemented, what have we been left with?

    A police force that doesn’t actually achieve what it should do in terms of providing saftey and security for the community.

    A police force that is inadequate to cover the range of difficulties that exist here, dissidents, personal security, cross border cime and other areas that are unique to NI.

    A police force that got rid of many of its most experienced officers.

    A police force that has some people who are not up to standard, recruited to keep the 50/50 recruitment balance due to insufficient applicants from one side of the community.

    A police force that hires retired senior officers to catch speeders, but not to solve more serious crimes.

    It is time to carry our a full review of Patten and look at what is needed for the next 10 years prior to P&J being devolved. If we devolve P&J first we will never be able to afford the changes needed to provide the policing that all sections of the community actually want.

    The Orde legacy is a police force that is politically correct but is not fit for purpose.

  • Driftwood

    Orde got to where he did by using all the right management buzzwords. Judith Gillespie was on tonight spouting all the oul shite, ‘key stakeholders, ‘community led initatives’ ‘consultation review panel’ etc.
    Sadly the NHS and other public sector bodies are aping the New Labour crap bestowed upon them.
    I’d like to think a Tim Collins led police force would have been a much more effective unit. The 9 to 5 tick box culture may have been done away with along with the feathernester management.

  • Ultilmo

    The political project that is the ‘peace process’ required a police organisation that would not step on toes, would avoid confrontation and only exercise a policing function against those who had little, if any, clout in the new dispensation; and exercise it in a manner that required little actual policing skill.

    Therefore crime, thuggery and all manner of unpleasantness is managed through ‘community activists’ and the police are invisible on the streets, save for their robust war of attrition against the mostly law abiding motorist.

    So, hunker down, look the other way when the bad guys are out and about,keep the door bolted and the car taxed.

  • you there

    Well folks, we got what we voted for. The shinners got the SB out of the way (bugger them catching us all, because we never knew volunteer Roy in the team was a plant for 25 years). The SDLP got what their voters wanted: the peelers put in their place. The DUP got the same as the SDLP. The Ulster Unionists got voted out. The peelers were made to become second class citizens and now its all went to rat shit.

    Who voted for this again?

  • DC

    It’s a miscalculation to have a political strategy that runs down police changes, it is demoralising.

    I’m entitled as a person to rant off, but if I were in a position to make changes and argue for that change I wouldn’t do what the DUP did. And they did it before the PSNI was created and indeed throughout Patten. The mocked the RUC.

  • fair_deal

    I must admit the attempts to make this the DUP’s fault are very entertaining.

    “it is demoralising.”

    What’s demoralising is having a bloody useless police service. Although at least the authors of this report have now recognised the problem.

    The timing can’t be coincidental either as Orde does his farewell interviews saying what a great job he did someone inside the PSNI has chosen to leak a document saying the opposite.

  • George Church

    Perhaps the greatest surprise, relative to the rest of the UK, is that the police were in the area at all. I would therefore think that Malachi’s perspective on the matter is somehwat wide of the mark; indeed, slightly jaundiced.

    In most towns in the UK, and in particular, in places like the Thames Valley, you will rarely see a policeman. You will usually only get one to come out to visit, if somebody has been murdered. There are plenty of places where armed men could set up roadblocks, should they feel so obliged.

    The notion that Judith Gillespie, is to meet some of the eight officers who came across that paramilitary checkpoint in Meigh is tokenism par excellence, and something of a joke….

  • DC

    Yes George NI isnt Thames Valley, despite my political views being anti-conservative, the good thing about NI is that it is fairly tight knit and this small c conservatism can help to get on top of things quicker just as much as it can to sour things quicker.

    And fair deal, the clip doesn’t lie, neither has the DUP’s actions been prolific in achieving positive things.

    For goodness sake your head honcho and First Minister is a former estate agent with rumours around his own personal life apparently matching his style of politics: unionist aggressor.

    Look at the way he, P Robinson, spoke to Martina Purdy, he was rude and seething, and he wouldn’t have spoken to a male journalist like.

    Do me a favour and grow up a little.

    So, how about you drop the ‘fair’ bit out of your name and just ‘deal’ with the fact that in the past and perhaps even the present the DUP has an unsavoury negative element.

  • Jo

    So police armed with revolvers failed to take on 7 masked men with auto weapons and a rocket launcher and this launches venom on the police. Who now happen to have a sizeable Catholic proportion (not that would make anyone resent them, of course)

    I daresay not one man (dubiously applicable term)jack of the critics have ever set foot in Meigh after dark. This might have been a “come on”. A planned massacre. But that would credit brains to the brainless. Then again the other 3 fellas were probably blocked in Dundalk.

  • Driftwood

    The British army, who also have a sizeable Catholic membership, could easily have dealt with this situation. An Apache gunship overhead would have added emphasis. If the police need military back up, it is available. Orde asked for the Special Reconnaisance Regiment a while back. Lets hope they arrive soon.

  • DS

    I never thought I’d see the day I’d say it, but in light of recent events I’m starting to very genuinely regret voting in favour of the Good Friday Agreement. Where can I retract?

  • Comrade Stalin

    DC, it continues to amaze me how you can write so many words while including almost no discernable semantic content.

    People are not being reasonable or realistic about the incident in Meigh. RUC patrols, and indeed Garda patrols, would have acted just as the PSNI did. The only people who would have been equipped to confront that gang would have been the army, and that’s a whole can of worms.

    I think Garibaldy is right about there being a perfect storm in the PSNI being retrofitted as a normal police force along with the vacuum being left by the paramilitaries letting go (to some extent) of their vigilante role.

    Driftwood, it wasn’t a good idea to read the sign over the bus lane and proceed to drive in it anyway. But then, you guys are known for ignoring all the signs 🙂

  • Jo

    These dickheads were in Meigh for 10, possibly 15 minutes.

    I think that amply demonstrates their commitment to dying for their cause.

    I somehow think that the residents might object to regular Apache over flights, should such be snotified, scrambled and arrive in 10-15 minutes 🙂

  • Jo

    I have detected a rise in utra-Prod criticism of the PSNI co incident with the rise in Catholic participation in same.

    But of course thats only a co-incidence.

    Mind you, no less a person than James Craig dteermined that 30% of the frmer RUC be reserved for Catholics back in the 20s.

    Then again, that old bugger met with Michael Collins.

    Who can be trusted? even Carson was born in Dub…

  • DC

    Comrade Stalin, you’re so right.

    Still winning the good fight, didn’t I tell you before after being involved in Alliance that you’re only really boxing your shadows.

    Shared future and integration I don’t see it.

    Besides if gunmen can turn up at Belfast City Council funded bonfires with Alliance backing I’m not surprised one bit about your views on gunmen in other streets, unfunded by the council this time.

  • fair_deal


    “the clip doesn’t lie”

    ROFLMAO pity it has no relationship to the present state of policing and a desparate attempt to keep your anti-dup riff going no matter how gaping the stretch required either of time or relevance.

    ” with rumours around his own personal life ”

    What a pathetic comment but just shows how low you’ll go to sustain your dislike of the DUP. Grow a pair and make the direct allegation or admit you can’t sustain your own arguments so had to retreat to innuendo? Sound fair?

    “spoke to Martina Purdy, he was rude and seething, and he wouldn’t have spoken to a male journalist like.”

    Not a fan of PR’s media style but PR was ignorant to a journo whose stock in trade is mistaking being ignorant for being ‘hard-hitting’ and ‘investigative’. Oh the humanity! The fact she got a nice juicy story helped console her I’m sure. Also if you’ve never seen PR being rude to a male journo then you obvioulsy don’t follow local politics much.

    “Do me a favour and grow up a little.”

    The laughs just keep coming. Tangental leaps and infantile innuendo and it’s me who has to grow up.

    Why don’t you just deal with the fact that there are things in this universe that can’t be blamed on the DUP despite how much you really really want them to be blamed for absolutely everything.

  • DC

    Fair Deal, in my view Peter Robinson came across as a bully when interviewed by Martina Purdy, I haven’t seen him behave like that with anyone else but her.

    Now, say what you want but you’re in the right-winger brigade. Only a FM could promise foolishly a ‘brave new world’ and end up upsetting people causing the government to go into a coma for 6 months.

    That’s why I’m anti-conservative, as even though facts are there proving language and political attitudes to certain journalists and certain chief constables, the stance is to deny it. The arrogance of pretending to have moral rectitude and seemingly always being in the right.

    Reminds me of the old Tory days when Tory MPs were caught having affairs and then went on the TV dragging their families out the next day: all is fine here I tell you, just look at the family unit.

    I mean grow up in a way that is stop with the pretense that the DUP hasn’t been negative and deal with that by doing something about it.

    The DUP all the times i’ve seen their representatives on TV are found to be in denial and/or anger mode.

    Instead of asking for more money and blaming other people and governments and parties, any chance of reaching that stage in making change happen by accepting responsibility or at least wanting to.

  • Padraig

    Things a went to hell when we lost the RUC.

    Those boyos jest knew when a Taigue was a Taigue, specially one loaded for bear.

    Loosing 25,000 Brit back ups didn’t help matters either.

    Bring our boys back from towel head land, the Fenians are getting out of control.

    Then see how brave they’ll be with the PSNI

  • Driftwood

    Apaches can be scrambled from Ballykinlar to South Armagh in 5 minutes. If an SRR JTAC is on the ground, any wannabee martyr can be made so through the JTAC’s laptop crosshairs very soon.
    Cue, no more playing at terror.

    Meigh looks an unpleasant place though. Sort of Crossmaglen without the ‘charisma’. A sort of Royston Vasey with extra Prozac.

    But i think this is handbags stuff (I hope), the ‘performance art’ participants are due back at adult ‘special’ school next week.
    Maybe Michael Stone for tutor?

  • fair_deal


    No more on the “rumours”?

    “Peter Robinson came across as a bully when interviewed by Martina Purdy”

    I agree PR did not come across well in that interview. Her repeated interruptions were to try and get a reaction and it succeeded and he came off the worst as a result.

    “upseeting people”

    He didn’t roll over and play dead how terrible.

    “even though facts are there proving language and political attitudes to certain journalists and certain chief constables, the stance is to deny it”

    What denials? Did Ian Paisley make that speech yes. It’s the linkages I dispute. A speech about the RUC 13 years ago has no meaningful impact on how our policing structures operate today. Also criticising a report whose recommendations have kindly provided us with a policing service that its own officers think is crap doesn’t look like bad strategy rather vindication.

    “The arrogance of pretending to have moral rectitude and seemingly always being in the right.”

    If you think such traits are monopolised by one political viewpoint I am afraid you will be seriously disappointed.

    BTW if negativity about the police as a strategy is bad why have you done just that in a number of posts on this thread including negative comments about Chief Constables? Is it just a problem if a DUP rep does it?

  • Seimi

    Driftwood, with all your talk of Apache helicoptors, SRR JTAC, and laptop crosshairs, ye make yourself out like some kind of counter-inssurgency-hi-tech-above-the-law-kinda-guy.

    Are you Tom Cruise? Or James Bond?

    Oh wait! You are Bourne! Jason Driftwood Bourne!

    Anyway – back to reality. A bunch of arseholes with guns at a checkpoint in South Armagh. Police observe this. Police drive away.

    I feel safer. Don’t you?

    As for your idea of attack helicopters Jaso/…Driftwood, if the PSNI on the ground are happy to drive away from armed men, why should soldiers be expected to do their job for them? That would be almost like…40 years ago? And what good did that do?

    Oh. Wait….

  • DC

    Driftwood very clinical but funny all the same for the sheer dryness.

    “But i think this is handbags stuff (I hope), the ‘performance art’ participants are due back at adult ‘special’ school next week.”

    Is Stormont sitting 😉

    The serious point is that the police are impotent strategically and it is these people who will likely carry out the next Const Stephen Carroll.

    The wak-waks walk free.

    And it’s not just a ultra-Prod bashing, take the murder of the republican Bap McGreevy and the situation in Larne hardly supports that stance either.

    The mother of the threatened family said it was a terrifying experience.

    “I was standing there looking out – to me they’re known paramilitaries – and easily over 90 per cent of them had their faces obscured,” she said.

    “I then went out of the room to get the family out of bed; the first thing I just thought is every window in this house is going to go in, the cars are going to be damaged.”

    Chief Inspector Ryan Henderson said: “Public order incidents such as the recent protest are challenging policing operations.

    “During such incidents police actions, which will be appropriate and proportionate, are designed to minimise the risk to life and property. That is not always an easy task.”

    It’s just not good enough because as I said in a previous post I’m pondering parading to the door of the former Lord Chief Justice to make a protest. Can I get an escort off the PSNI?

  • Driftwood

    Straightforward: At present
    Suspect device, the PSNI call in the army (ATO’s)

    Armed thugs carrying weapons, PSNI call in Special Forces and Apache longbows.

    1 Hellfire missile to a GPS, end of story.
    Israel does it with impunity, why not us?

    nice wake up call to the ‘people’ of Meigh.

  • DC

    Fair Deal:

    “The arrogance of pretending to have moral rectitude and seemingly always being in the right.”

    ‘If you think such traits are monopolised by one political viewpoint I am afraid you will be seriously disappointed.’ – FD

    Too right me old china, I agree:

    So I don’t hear Pete calling for dissolution or you Mick, but it’s in there, or maybe you both can’t find that because it’s in there too.

    But hey sure it’s Northern Ireland Mick, everyone’s right don’t ya know?

    SF is right
    DUP is right
    UUP is right
    SDLP is right
    Pete Baker is right

    That’s why we cant compromise Mick because everyone is right dontcha geddit??????? Pass the sick bucket.
    Posted by DC on Oct 04, 2008 @ 11:34 PM

    As I have said before everyone is right, even you are and I am too. I know it’s a miracle what with everybody being right – even Alliance is right!

    But if Pete is right about his view then dissolution is right too given the procedure and threats to pull the assembly before it.

    However, amongst all this being right, I have yet to hear or see any sensible way to get round this problem i.e. no executive.

    Resort to the black and white, whenever visions are in the colour of a rainbow, and compromises a shade of grey, will mean no positive progress can be achieved.

    Once again the process will stall. So it’s probably best to avoid black and white, yea?
    Posted by DC on Oct 05, 2008 @ 01:07 PM

  • Seimi

    ‘Israel does it with impunity, why not us?’

    Because it’s wrong???

    ‘Armed thugs carrying weapons, PSNI call in Special Forces and Apache longbows.’

    And that is your solution? The police can’t control – sorry – the police refuse to get involved in a situation, and your solution is – bring in, what was it? Oh yes:

    Special Forces
    Apache Longbows

    And, in case anybody out there thought Driftwood doesn’t read army books…

    1 – just 1! – Hellfire missile

    Why only 1 Driftwood? Is it just a warning? How much damage does one Hellfire missile make? For example, in a residential area, how many people would you hope to kill with one Hellfire missile?

    The bottom line is – the police SHOULD have attempted to apprehend, or at least, alert the perpratators (or whatever!) as to their presence. They didn’t.

    The big question is – WHY?

    Were they scared? Yes. Of course they were.
    Were they expecting this? No. Of course they weren’t. Apres-Ceasefire (ie IRA Ceasefire – none of the others), why would they be expecting it?
    Are they police officers? Yes.
    Are they bound to uphold the law? Yes.
    Did they see armed men breaking the law? Yes.
    Were they then, by driving away from masked men armed with guns, who were stopping civilians on a public road, not in serious dereliction of their duties?

    Were they acting as up-holders of the law when they did this? Yes or no?

    So why did they drive away?

  • Seimi

    *Post-ceasefire of course

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Driftwood: “1 Hellfire missile to a GPS, end of story. Israel does it with impunity, why not us?”

    One Hellfire to kill seven paramilitary cockroaches is probably a net loss to the state.

    Two two man teams could do far better for probably a couple bob worth of rifle rounds.

    You don’t use a flamethrower to kill cockroaches, Driftwood

  • Dread Cthulhu

    @Seimi == probably because the police have been politically corrected past the point of being useful as anything more strenuous than theater ushers.

  • DC

    Maybe something a bit like this:


    the gun, manufactured by the Danish concern Dan-Inject can send to sleep with a sole shot even an elephant. It depends only on the opiate in the injection.

    The rifle has a walnut-tree butt-stock and originally carved foregrip. …Nice

  • Hellfire

    Or perhaps the Hellfire:

    The AGM-114 Hellfire is a multi-platform, multi-target United States modular missile system. The name comes from the fact that it was originally intended to be a helicopter-launched fire-and-forget weapon (HELicopter FIRE-and-forget). Initial problems with the TV-based guidance system forced designers to consider a laser-tracking system.

    The development of the Hellfire Missile System began in 1974 with the U.S. Army requirement for a “tank-buster”, launched from helicopters to defeat armoured fighting vehicles…The Hellfire has matured into a comprehensive weapon system, one that can be deployed from rotary- and fixed-wing aircraft, naval assets, and land-based systems against a variety of targets.

    In 2008 the usage of the AGM-114N variant caused controversy in the United Kingdom when it was found out that these thermobaric munitions were added to the Royal Air Force (RAF) arsenal in secrecy. Thermobaric weapons have been condemned as “brutal” by human rights groups. The British Ministry of Defence circumvents this by calling the AGM-114N an “enhanced blast weapon”.

  • McGrath

    Just pretending here.

    Lets pretend this is a normal society with no paramilitary influence. Lets pretend this incident was a group of nutters of some type. How would a regular police force have responded? Would they have called in the equivalent of a SWAT team, and would that team just let them go away? It seems like modern NI society would support an arms possession charge or would it?

  • crow

    What is the point in having an armed police force if they are only ever going to draw and fire their weapons when a car full of teenagers runs a road block.

    Disarm these fools now i say.

  • Neil

    On the subject of the checkpoint for arguments sake imagine these guys were out to kill a specific person, and let’s say that person is you. You pull up to the checkpoint and realise what’s happening, who’s going to save you? The cops just saw what was happening and fucked off toot suite. The cops get paid very well for what they do, and for the amount of qualifications required. It’s an option for hundreds of kids leaving school with next to no qualifications, an average IT graduate will have studied for 5 years longer than some cops and will get an entry level job paying less.

    Why do we pay cops so much? Danger money that’s why. Because every so often a member of the public is going to be at imminent risk, and one of the extremely well paid officers is going to have to stick his neck out to try to save that member of the public. In almost every country on earth, each year cops die in the line of duty, trying to protect the public. In Northern Ireland they would never think of doing such a thing. They have and will sit and watch someone being beaten to death by a mob and do nothing.

    With regards to the report, it’s interesting that while 40% of complaints were regarding anti social behaviour the PSNI spent 4% of their time dealing with it. It’s also worth noting that clearance rates dropped further this year, and if you now go housebreaking you have a staggering 90% chance of never even talking to a cop.

    The report is no surprise. The police do not care about their job, it’s a means to an attractive end and they have no intention of taking any risks for anyone.

    I have watched the police arrive at the top of the Suffolk Road, and shout abuse with language that some people would consider foul at the feral drinkers that hang out/drink/asault every week end in life. Some of these drinkers are about 12.

    Once the mob was well wound up the cops drove off and left us, the residents to enjoy the sounds of smashing glass and screaming agressive drunken kids and older people who drink with kids on the street.

    Through the anti social behaviour we called the police three times, each time to report a crime, (theft, throwing bottles at a house at night, and threatening to kill my partner). Two times the cops came up and did nothing, once they drove up and didn’t leave the car. This just made our problem worse, if you’re suffering from anti social behaviour don’t bother calling the cops. They will do nothing and it will embolden and anger your problem.

    My point is the cops don’t give a fuck that everyone in my estate lives in fear of these ‘people’, they only care about getting back to their cushy number, and that nice house paid for by our taxes.

  • Driftwood

    Cops get paid a lot more than squaddies, who do tend to find themselves in a lot of danger. When the squaddies left, there was no-one willing to do all the nasty stuff. Much easier to sit in the canteen all day, and moan about form filling. The PSNI have morphed in to civil servants.
    There was also a recent damning report about the prison service at Maghaberry. Maybe its a public sector thing.

  • “The review team called for a fresh approach to end the 9-5 culture it said “has developed in the organisation”.

    It also said reducing budgets may mean the number of police officers may have to be reduced by 500 from the current level of 7,500.

    The report is due to be discussed at a public meeting of the Northern Ireland Policing Board next week.” Vincent Kearney, BBC

    Why didn’t Vincent Kearney check the current PSNI staff statistics? There he’d see that PSNI is 500 constables under strength, that student officers are being counted as full time officers – and that the removal of the full time reserve will deplete resources even further. There is also an apparent surplus of senior officers.


  • Tam

    PSNI – Pretty Sure (I’m) Not Interested (in your problems).

    PSNI – Please Sir No Involvement (with crime)

    PSNI – Pretty Secure Nice Income

    PSNI – Parrot Statistics Nothing Important

    PSNI – ……

  • fin

    deep breath chaps, wrong as it was a little perspective, the people with guns were handing out leaflets, it was a show of strenght.

    Now I understand a number of people on here will have the natural reaction of insisting on replying with a greater show of strenght ie missile attacks etc.

    But, its not really in the interests of law and order is it, its more of the good old Paisley mindset.

    Because at the end of the day a show of strenght is a show of strenght, if its done by the UDA in military uniforms in a pub, waving gun licenses on a hillside or handing out leaflets while waving guns around its all just a show of strenght.

    Driftwood, are you Willie Frazer?

  • Craigy Hill

    “feral drinkers that hang out/drink/asault every week end in life. Some of these drinkers are about 12…Once the mob was well wound up the cops drove off and left us, the residents to enjoy the sounds of smashing glass and screaming agressive drunken kids and older people who drink with kids on the street… the cops don’t give a fuck that everyone in my estate lives in fear of these ‘people’”

    Jesus Neil, what a grim little shithole you must live in, that’s truly shocking.

  • Stephen

    I’ve been attending DPP meetings for a long time now and telling the Peelers they are doing a crap job. They didn’t believe me. Now they believe me. Never liked Orde he thought he was the best ever – no chance. I have 26 million reasons that confirm he was crap.

    As for Robinson he has been a political bully for years.

  • “someone inside the PSNI has chosen to leak a document”

    fair_deal, it seems that the Policing Board members inter alia had a copy of the report in June ….

  • Dread Cthulhu
  • Driftwood

    A crap police service, a joke of a prison service, who appear to spend 50% of their time asleep, and now a health service not fit for purpose

    Still, musn’t grumble….

  • fin

    looks like the Tory knifes are out for the NHS then, is Davey lying when he says nice things about the NHS or has he no control over his party.

    Regarding all the comments regarding the cops, where does this fit with unionist confidence in P&J been devolved, is it that London is doing the best it can on Policing or that things would be worse if it was devolved,

    Policing in NI won’t be to high on Labour or Tory election agendas, so there an onus on the politicans who want the status quo to come up with some answers OR the pro devolution politicans need to give a roadmap of how they’ll improve things.

    Why not do a ‘dragons den’ for potential ministers for the role, get them and their parties to pitch for the job or pitch for responsibility remaining in London.

    There seems to be 2 different arguements, public perception is that the cops aren’t doing their job, the police report seems to be an admission of this.

    Yet the UUP and DUP are worried about funding.

    Is underfunding the problem or is it how the police are been managed, if its funding then its a problem if its devolved or not. If its management than surely police performance been related to votes means devolution is the best option.

    Who is politically responsible for the PSNI today, has these issues been raised with him/her?

  • Driftwood

    Presumably political control of the PSNI lies with the NIO and therefore Shaun Woodward. But he’s part of a lame duck cabinet that are mostly on holiday and Orde has effectively left, crowing about his ‘transformation’.
    The new CC is an Orde clone. So effectively nothing will change. Unless the situation deteriorates badly.
    My guess is that all concerned are just hoping the report disappears into the ether.
    To summarise. Nobody in the PSNI or government (Stormont or Westminster)gives a fuck.

  • “political control of the PSNI lies with the NIO”

    Driftwood, policing and justice have an input from the BIIC Joint Secretariat, Windsor House, Bedford Street, Belfast – the post-1985 ‘securocrats’ 🙂

  • fin

    Well, if policing goes to pot in GB and crime rises its a stick to beat the PrimeMinister and government with, so unless there’s a counter arguement out there it looks like local responsibility is the way forward, giving NI the right to speak via the ballot box on their feelings towards the standard of policing.

    But it would still be nice to draw out the more hardline unionists on slugger who want stormont shut down and for NI to be administered from London, why they are unhappy with policing, which is currently administered from London. Are they happy to live with the current situation just to achieve the shutdown of Stormont, or is there a solution to policing which doesn’t involve devolution.

    Some would say the arguements to close Stormont are a mask to been unhappy with powersharing, and not wishing for devolution is not wanting a nationalist minister in the future. Obviously some will wish for a return to the old RUC.

    But is there a sensible answer out there

  • fin

    How about a lot more power in the hands of policing boards?

  • “currently administered from London.”

    London and Dublin since, er, 1985, fin. Don’t tell those recalcitrant unionists – or Pete; let it be our little secret.

  • Driftwood

    If Policing and Justice are devolved, and the PSNI need some Army backup,(they already do actually with Bomb Disposal and technical training) it will be a London decision anyway.
    Nevin I’ve no problem with Dublin being involved in a minor advisory capacity, as exists at present.
    What’s happenin’ on the Stormont gravy train these days anyway? On the legislation front I mean, not the barstool nitpicking.

  • “Dublin being involved in a minor advisory capacity, as exists at present.”

    So you didn’t know that Dublin officials are involved in policy and day-to-day decision making, Driftwood …

  • Driftwood

    So you didn’t know that Dublin officials are involved in policy and day-to-day decision making, Driftwood …

    I didn’t know they had a role with the Ministry of Defence, Nevin, no.

    What do you think the Dublin advice was on the Afghanistan mission? And I’d be interested to hear their advice on Operation Panther’s Claw.

    Maybe an FoI query?

  • DC

    Fair Deal,

    Re Martina Purdy: ‘I agree PR did not come across well in that interview. Her repeated interruptions were to try and get a reaction and it succeeded and he came off the worst as a result…He didn’t roll over and play dead how terrible..’

    I came across this clip, it is soooooo Peter Robinson:


    Enjoy me ole china!

  • DC

    Peter Robinson vs Martina Purdy

    “Do hold on a minute..do you want to come round here?..and do have the manners”


    …Know your place??: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w&NR=1&feature=fvwp

  • fin

    Driftwood, obviously any decisions concerning the BA would reside in London,

    Nevin, London, Dublin, the UN, whereever, no-one has named someone in politics with responsibility for policing in NI, and if someone does name a name, can they also state what the individual is doing about policing.

    Look at the political involvement in the recent resignation and appointment of the Met Chief in London, incidents like this highlight that unionism not wanting the devolution of P&J is solely to stop a nationalist getting the job, the TUV, UUP and DUP (in that order) have been the most vocal on this recently, but they’re not coming out with any answers to the fact that even the Police agree they’re not very good at policing. I think unionism has changed and its no longer good enough for politicans to sling mud at the other side, they’ve been given responsibility and need to behave like real politicans, the way things are going certain parties are going to start getting smaller in the near future as the current crop of politicans can’t handle the new situation and responsibilities.

  • “what the individual is doing about policing.”

    It would be unfair and inappropriate for me to name individuals but I’ve previously described the process, fin.

    We’ve been badly let down by the MSM when it comes to educating the public about how the policing and justice system operates – in practice as distinct from what it says in print. For example, it would appear that inter-governmental decisions are still not subject to parliamentary scrutiny; ministers and officials can’t be held to account.

    This theme also highlights a weakness in Slugger O’Toole and its bloggers’ reliance on MSM sources.

  • Reader

    Nevin: Driftwood, policing and justice have an input from the BIIC Joint Secretariat, Windsor House, Bedford Street, Belfast
    No wonder the PSNI are increasingly ineffectual. Does the BIIC have any useful guidance to offer the Gardai, by the way?

  • latcheeco

    Gives a whole new meaning to “move along nothing to see here” when the cops are doing the moving along.

    Elect your local sherriff (provided he/she qualifies). Kick him out if he’s crap. Whole new policing culture instantaneously (that’s if as democrats you really do believe the people can be trusted to make their own decisions).

    As far as I remember, the resident insurgents down in the Watermargins of Yang Shang Po made wee boys out of your chaps for decades even with all your technology and vastly superior numbers, primarily because the chaps had little to no intel on the ground. Why would this change now if they couldn’t do it for forty years? And didn’t an old iraqi shepherd with a .303 enfield drop an Apache in Gulf One 🙂