And their evaluation was?

Obviously, armed and masked men stopping vehicles at a “paramilitary checkpoint” in the Meigh area near Newry on Friday evening, and handing out leaflets “asking” people not to co-operate with the police, is a matter of concern in itself. But the BBC report notes another concerning detail

Police said a patrol witnessed the men stopping vehicles in the Meigh area near Newry on Friday evening. A PSNI spokesperson said the patrol pulled back to allow the situation to be fully evaluated.

, , ,

  • Mark McGreg

    I’ll suspend my belief for now especially given how we have been discussing the presentation of events by those hostile to those involved. This could quiet easily have been a ‘white line picket’ being spun into a checkpoint. I know for sure when I postered in an election it ended up in the media as ‘balaclava gang under the cover of darkness’

    It is notable the cops don’t confirm the guns etc in their comment. Made up yet again by those opposed to any display of dissent?

  • I hear they also entered a nearby pub and relayed a similar message.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Anti Republican Propoganda spun out at the behest of the masters in Whitehall

  • No Mark, it’s true.

    From talking to people today there were at least two masked men carrying AK47’s.

  • dunreavynomore

    It happened all right Mark. I saw one of the leaflets they handed out last night telling people to stay away from police on either side of the border, threatening drug dealers and promising to deal with anti social behaviour in the near future. In short they were doing what the provos did for 25 years. the leaflet was headed Oglaigh na hEireann / Real IRA.

  • Mark McGreg

    Chris,

    Thanks. Even though you are reporting 2nd hand I will take your confirmation as a confirmation.

    Seems South Armagh has confident armed republicans in operation that don’t fear the provisional ‘movement’ or the state.

    Pointless and counterproductive activity but a demonstration of how the SF agenda is breaking down in more and more areas.

  • dunreavynomore

    It’s interestinmg too that that as the st Armagh provos were playing with toy weapons and a home made travelling ‘outpost’in Tyrone these guys were planning to set up checkpointy in sth Armagh.

  • “Seems South Armagh has confident armed republicans in operation that don’t fear the provisional ‘movement’ or the state.”

    They have no support though, 84% of people here vote for Sinn Féin.

  • Mark McGreg

    Come off it Chris, you know history, you even know the educational package. SF said it for long enough – electoral strength is not an indicator of political strength and confusing the two is a recipe for disaster for any revolutionary force.

    But sure change the line?

  • Mark

    That is true, no doubt.

    But I can only say from my own experience that their political support is almost non existant bar some ambivilance from the community in relation to their smuggling.

    They need to thread a very fine line as that ambivilance could lead to vocal and physical opposition should they make a wrong move.

    Their line on anti-social behaviour could be interesting. The police have left this area isolated and on some occasions at the mercy of anti-social hoods.

    You often hear locals talking about feeling safer during the struggle as those parasites never raised their heads for fear of the army.

    Now should they take action against anti-social elements it would not be impossible to believe that their political support would rise amongst certain sections of the community.

    The police have a real responsbility to be more pro-active in this area.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Chris Gaskin: “But I can only say from my own experience that their political support is almost non existant bar some ambivilance from the community in relation to their smuggling.

    They need to thread a very fine line as that ambivilance could lead to vocal and physical opposition should they make a wrong move.”

    Gee… setting up a free-lance road-block toting automatic weapons… what in that could possibly be thought of as a “wrong move.”

    Their only advantage is that the forces of law and order are too timid to do anything about these cockroaches.

    Should the police find the stomach to actually do their job, the theater of the street is going to lose a couple of bad actors.

  • Pete Baker

    Indeed, Dread.

    Chris

    “You often hear locals talking about feeling safer during the struggle as those parasites never raised their heads for fear of the army.”

    And it’s that sort of false historical perspective of the PIRA’s kangaroo courts of the time that motivates such displays in Meigh.

  • Sorry Pete

    It’s the truth

  • Pete Baker

    Chris

    The sentiment may exist among some.

    But the perspective is completely wrong.

  • Wrong or not Pete it’s the reality for a great many.

  • Pete Baker

    I’m sure, Chris, that as a student of the law, you can, at least, agree that any such nostalgia by some for the days of those kangaroo courts is wrong.

    Or do party loyalties intervene?

  • DC

    I used to feel a whole lot safer out and about when we had the RUC (a tongue in cheek moment).

  • dunreavynomore

    Doesn’t say much for the Sinn Féin project of ‘putting manners’ on the psni, then, Chris.
    Your statement on the ambivilence towards smuggling could be read to mean the smuggling of the community or the smuggling of the armed republicans. Likewise the ‘vocal or physical opposition’ could be a possibility from either the comunity or the republicans from a reading of your post.

  • Reader

    Chris Gaskin: Wrong or not Pete it’s the reality for a great many.
    Same sort of thing among some sections of the other lot too. That’s another slice of ‘the reality’ in these parts.

  • “I’m sure, Chris, that as a student of the law, you can, at least, agree that any such nostalgia by some for the days of those kangaroo courts is wrong.”

    Misguided

    “Or do party loyalties intervene?”

    Nothing to do with party loyalities

  • alan56

    Whatever the political tensions between SF and other republicans,and that is an interesting discusssion, to most people this is not a vision of the future that most people want. Or am I just living in ‘peace process’ cloud cuckoo land? Will be interesting what Minister Forde would do.

  • “to most people this is not a vision of the future that most people want.”

    Exactly

  • Pete Baker

    “Misguided.”

    And would those recent historical re-enactments have helped, or hindered, such “misguided” nostalgia for the days of those kangaroo courts?

  • Pete

    Non sequitur

  • alan56

    ‘an inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence.’Non sequitur…!

  • Driftwood

    You often hear locals talking about feeling safer during the struggle as those parasites never raised their heads for fear of the army.

    So people in South Armagh want British soldiers back on patrol? Well, there are 5000 here so why not? And since it’s an MoD matter, why not go for the Specialists…
    Good to see republicans accepting that the Royal Marines or Irish Guards may be needed to sort this parochial UK matter out.

  • Pete Baker

    If you’d prefer not to answer, or even contemplate, the question, Chris, you can just say so.

  • driftwood

    I said Army, not the foreign force of occupation

  • I did answer Pete, just not the way you would have liked

  • the hungry baker

    “Same sort of thing among some sections of the other lot too. That’s another slice of ‘the reality’ in these parts. ”

    Pete as a loyalist from South Armagh I agree with the above, ira roadblocks were a “fact of life” in south downsouth armagh in da 80s

  • alan56

    Is it true that PSNI took a look and decided to withdraw and consider the situation? If so it makes you wonder about their effectiveness in some areas.

  • Indeed Alan

  • the hungry baker

    pete have you ever even fucking been in meigh ???

    as a south down loyalist, i love the chippy on the corner of the crossroads (murphys)

    some of the “craic” you hear from the loose mouthed locals is invaluable, and the chips ain’t bad either.

  • Pete Baker

    Of course you did, Chris.

  • exile

    As far as I’m aware, these “checkpoints” are a regular occurrence in the Fermanagh border area as well as, to a much lesser extent, parts of west Tyrone. Also, their comrades in Derry city seem to be strutting their stuff openly.
    The recent escalation in “punishment” shootings and attacks in the city, as well as in Strabane, have a lot more (tacit) community support than a lot of people on seem to want to believe.

  • LURIG

    Loyalists usually get ‘community grants’ for this sort of thing. The South Armagh lot should put in for lottery funding or apply to the Dept. Social Development which just loves to pay for these things.

  • alan56

    I detect a rural-urban split in these things.
    That’s just what happens to the culchies. Is that what we are saying?

  • Driftwood

    Chris Gaskin
    The only Army in this part of the United Kingdom is the British Army garrison. 39 Infantry Brigade with HQ at Thiepval Barracks, Lisburn.

    If you think otherwise, you are deluded. Why don’t you email Palace Barracks and ask to speak to your Sinn Fein rep if you do not like this.

    I know, the truth hurts badly, doesn’t it?

  • exile

    Pete, you’re fond of inserting the odd link into your pieces – so with regard to this incident, in which our emasculated police force sat back and did nothing, I’d suggest that you could easily draw parallels with the incident a few weeks ago in the Waterside in Derry and/or even their alleged inaction in Coleraine back in May.

  • Driftwood

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiepval_Barracks

    There is also the large camp at Ballykinlar, Chris, as well as Palace Barracks, Camp Kinnegar and others. One United Kingdom, One Army.

    No others, unless you regard Jackie McDonald and company as such.

    So it goes….

  • I was speaking about Oglaigh Na hÉireann, the South Armagh Brigade in particular driftwood.

    They were the only legitimate army in South Armagh

  • alan56

    Time for bed is it? This is going nowhere

  • alan56

    Pete
    Why so much deletion? Would it not just be better to let it all roll?

  • LURIG

    Pilgrim,

    You could have got a job as script writer for Sir Humphrey’s speeches in the perceptive political comedy YES MINISTER. That’s the way Sir Humphrey spoke too.

  • Mark McGreg

    I’m going to do you a big favour here and give some advice.

    If you don’t want your posts deleted put a little more effort in when pished.

    Then you won’t have to scream/slur ‘oppression’

  • Glensman

    Lurig,

    That is EXACTLY how Humphrey spoke! 🙂

  • alan56

    Mark,

    Not pished and didn’t insult anyone…. why delete?

  • Driftwood

    They were the only legitimate army in South Armagh

    The word WERE looms darkly there Chris, your political masters in SF have decided that Brigadier George Norton is now your CO. He’s a decent bloke and well versed in Irish history.

    As I say, Palace Barracks, or Thiepval, will be able to answer any queries you have. They still provide operational back up to the PSNI.

    have a good evening.

  • Alan,

    Your response to deleted posts made no sense without the originals. I say this as someone who five minutes ago was wondering who and what Pligrim’s master was, and what he had said. So I think it’s fair enough to delete those even though you had said nothing wrong.

  • Frank

    ‘Loyalists usually get ‘community grants’ for this sort of thing. The South Armagh lot should put in for lottery funding or apply to the Dept. Social Development which just loves to pay for these things.’

    They should form a flute band, get hired by their local Orange Lodge, get a 10k grant from the Arts Council for flutes and drums, fly as many paramilitary flags and banners as they like and be protected as they march through every crack in the road were they are not welcome.

    Sorted !!!!

  • Mark McGreg

    Alan,

    Ask Pete. I think he has been tryimg to manage some very difficult threads and fairplay (not a thankless task I’d fancy)

    If moderation upsets youi so such much, email Mick I know he wants people willing to engage in this thankless task

  • dunreavynomore

    Chris, Óglaigh na hÉireann are the guys who mounted the checkpoint last night. The ones you refer to have left the field and taken up play acting in Tyrone along with their places on various policing boards where they sit happily doing sweet f.a. when they are not slaughtering young men in sheds in Oram or pubs in Belfast as a change from their smuggling and property empire duties.

  • alan56

    I agree with moderating blogs…. its just that sometimes medreating can have the effect of giving lunitics a ‘grievance’. It a very fine line.

  • Driftwood

    I’d like Chris Gaskin to explain why he thinks the Irish Guards (most from the Irish Republic)are a foreign force. Never mind the absurd addendum ‘of occupation’.

    On second thoughts, nah, I know the cliched reply.
    Anyway, at least we can all look forward to our mother country retaining The Ashes tomorrow!

  • dunreavynomore

    So you’re not Ulster Scots, then , Driftwood? Is there a similar name for those who claim English ancestry?

  • ccc

    I’m delighted to see this. Brilliant. I wholeheartedly oppose this unionist state. With all my heart. I’m delighted that people are trying to bring it down. Delighted. Briliant. How dare you impose this sectarian state upon me. Fuck you. Brilliant, we have resistance. Fantastic, I want to take you down, you unionist cowardly theives.

  • troll

    Oh Drifty. The Aussies will at least salvage a draw, just you wait and see. Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie, OI OI OIIIIII

  • Driftwood

    As Irish as the Duke of Wellington.

    Stable, Horse etc

    looking forward to seeing Ponting’s sour face tomorrow.

    C of I old bean, Anglican to the core, albeit the Dawkins variety. I suppose I should wish Tyrone all the best as well.
    England and Tyrone, 2 great victories for our Kingdom would be good news.

  • troll

    Don’t forget the young Armagh lads up against the Kingdom tomorrow [edited moderator]

  • Belfast Gonzo

    I’d love the armchair generals to tell us how a patrol car should deal with a couple of people with a couple of AKs. Course, we’d have to assume they were real, but then we’d have to assume they weren’t alone.

  • 0b101010

    So no-one that bothered that the PSNI just sat back and did nothing again?

  • 0b101010

    I’d love the armchair generals to tell us how a patrol car should deal with a couple of people with a couple of AKs. Course, we’d have to assume they were real, but then we’d have to assume they weren’t alone.

    Call for back-up and attempt to arrest them — as any other competent police force would — or do we concede that once you hold a firearm, you’re above the law?

  • KieranJ

    Ireland unfree shall never be at peace.

    Get over it. Until the Island is united into one country, there will be great tension and trouble. You bastards who chose to devide the nation are responsible for the problems your young folks are experiencing. Shame on you. Shame on you to hell.

  • troll

    Some of the black propaganda to be found on this thread is horrific. Please up your game lads, Catholics know how to spell and some of us even go to university these days. Can you believe that?

  • Observer

    A refreshing example of a considered debate on Slugger.
    A brief reference to the issue, followed by a hysterical degeneration into a pissing up the wall competition.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Driftwood,

    As I say, Palace Barracks, or Thiepval, will be able to answer any queries you have. They still provide operational back up to the PSNI.

    Why do so many unionists feel the need to lend their support to the UVF and UDA then ?

  • Driftwood

    CS
    They don’t.

  • Bruno Spiro

    The PSNI are a waste of space. Better armed and equipped than the RUC ever were yet unable to enforce the law. I await the usual response to the effect that the police are talking with ‘community representatives’ in order to calm the situation.

    BTW the call for witnesses could start with the police officers themselves who “evaluated” armed crime. I wonder if the Police Ombudsman can investigate neglect of duty and cowardice?

    On another note the “many” unionists who lent their “support” to the UVF/UDA didn’t seem to amount to much come election time.

    Nows when it comes to supporting terrorist groups in a tangible way the evidence does not point to the unionist community.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    BG: “I’d love the armchair generals to tell us how a patrol car should deal with a couple of people with a couple of AKs. Course, we’d have to assume they were real, but then we’d have to assume they weren’t alone.”

    There is this lovely invention called “a radio.”

    1) You call in for back-up, including, but not limited to, at least one tactical squad, pref. with at least two accurate long rifles with scopes, bipods and flash suppressors.

    2) You give the masked banditos a chance to lay down the weapons and surrender themselves into police custody.

    3) Assuming, arguendo, that the lads choose poorly, you put one round of 7.62 X 51 into each of them — I would recommend either frangible or semi-jacketed rounds, so as to minimize the ricochet risk.

    The sad part is is that this road-block idiocy was cleared with the police, like as not, with all parties pretending the shadow-games were real enough for media purposes.

  • dunreavynomore

    Dread C…

    you miss a few pertinent points such as the fact that ‘back up’ would be some miles and some time away; that the area being operated in would not be overly friendly to your friends; that there were probably a number of other armed men looking out for the ones seting up the checkpoint; that there would be a fear of landmines and finally that the psni were probably shit scared as most people would be in those circumstances.

  • NCM

    Armed Republicans in South Armagh?! My god, I’m totally shocked!

  • Guest

    Mother country you say Driftwood.Breast-fed sponger!

  • steve white

    so what did the police , come on get the scoop?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    dunreavy: “you miss a few pertinent points such as the fact that ‘back up’ would be some miles and some time away; that the area being operated in would not be overly friendly to your friends; that there were probably a number of other armed men looking out for the ones seting up the checkpoint; that there would be a fear of landmines and finally that the psni were probably shit scared as most people would be in those circumstances. ”

    Two rifles could do the work from beyond the effective range of the AK’s, the could be warned via bullhorn and, frankly, a line needs be drawn.

    This sort of idiocy is self-sustaining and self-replicating. The more it goes on, the more it will seem like a good idea to the next bunch of idiots with a couple of guns.

    Besides, let’s face it, if they have to distribute their literature at gun-point, they can’t be all that persuasive a set of ideas to begin with.

  • dunreavynomore

    Dread cthulhu,I would imagine the guns were to keep the psni and their guns out and they seem to have succeeded in that. I still say ,though,that you seem to have a very limited knowledge of the area we are talking about which is part of the area where the british army and the ruc were reduced to travelling by helicopter and even that was very dangerous for them. Just over the hill is narrow water, down the road is where two high ranking ruc men were shot, a mile away is where mr nairac of the sas was captured and on it goes. the psni will be aware of all this and move accordingly.

    Do you think those boyos would wait for your ‘two rifles and a bullhorn’ and do you not think those coming with ‘the bullhorn’ would want the road swept before them in case it was all a come on which in fact it may have been?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    DMN: “I would imagine the guns were to keep the psni and their guns out and they seem to have succeeded in that.”

    An’ you say it like it was a good thing.

    DMN: “I still say ,though,that you seem to have a very limited knowledge of the area we are talking about…”

    And I’d say you seem to have a very limited knowledge of how a civilized society, ostensibly a democratic one, handles itself, given your above.

    DMN: “Just over the hill is narrow water, down the road is where two high ranking ruc men were shot, a mile away is where mr nairac of the sas was captured and on it goes. the psni will be aware of all this and move accordingly.”

    Nostalgic for the good auld days, eh?

  • dunreavynomore

    DC
    “An’ you say it like it was a good thing.”
    Nope, I tell it like it is; You, on the other hand have some yen for long range snipers with rifles shooting people cleanly ( after the dilligent use of a bull horn which speaks to me of too may movies watched)with no one else in any danger. I simply point out a little of the history of the area and am accused of favouring these actions. You, meanwhile, are the one calling for people to be shot. well, excuse me if I don’t find the idea of someone calling for the death of locals. Interestiingly, you who are in favour of the psni and the british army seem to have no problem sending them into danger whilst I, who has no grá for them, am happy to see them staying out of danger. Strange old world, dread, isn’t it?

  • dunreavynomore

    “Assuming, arguendo, that the lads choose poorly, you put one round of 7.62 X 51 into each of them—I would recommend either frangible or semi-jacketed rounds, so as to minimize the ricochet risk.”
    “And I’d say you seem to have a very limited knowledge of how a civilized society, ostensibly a democratic one, handles itself, given your above.” d.c.
    I understand your idea of civilisation and democracy by ‘frangible or semi jacketed rounds.’ to be a particularly British idea and, one which, though it has failed all around the world they persist in trying again and again, still with no success, witness the coffins coming from Afghanistan. You seem like an educated person, using words like arguendo,the meaning of which I have to guess at, so I assume it will not be difficult for you to see the glaring contradictions in your position.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    DNM: “Nope, I tell it like it is; You, on the other hand have some yen for long range snipers with rifles shooting people cleanly ( after the dilligent use of a bull horn which speaks to me of too may movies watched)with no one else in any danger.”

    The effective range of an AK-47 is 400 meters… in the hands of these amateurs, accurate range is likely something less than that. “Spray and pray” would be their order of the day, most likely.

    The effective range of an M-40A3 firing .308 is built for 1000+ yard shots. The scope is good out to 800 yards, day-time use. At that point, it is simply a matter of discipline, wind and ballistics — just another physics equation to be solved. Frangible bullets minimize danger to civilians off of richocets. Nothing mythical or mystical about it.

    The bullhorn is dual purpose — it permits the officers to issue the warning to the thugs at range and provides the ancillary benefit of warning the civilians at the same time, although, frankly, at this late date, any idiots walking the streets with ski masks and AK-47’s deserve what they get. War’s over an’ these idiots seem to be doing their damnedest to lose the peace.

    DNM: “Interestiingly, you who are in favour of the psni and the british army seem to have no problem sending them into danger whilst I, who has no grá for them, am happy to see them staying out of danger. Strange old world, dread, isn’t it? ”

    Not really — you seem to be unusually comfortable with punks with guns roaming the streets — something of a character flaw.

    But then, your flaws started earlier — you’re the only one bringing the B.A. into the equation.

    Hoods — green or orange, it makes no difference to me — roaming the streets with guns should be an anachronism. If they want to threaten the peace with firearms displayed, they should expect to be shot, not police officers not worth the name. The days of street theatre with guns are over — these antics only serve to preserve the godfathers of the street, green and orange alike.

    And, like I said, how bad must your literature be if you have to sent up a road-block and hand it out at gun-point?

  • Scotty

    “On another note the “many” unionists who lent their “support” to the UVF/UDA didn’t seem to amount to much come election time”

    They didn’t need to Bruno.Just who were all those masked young men in parka jackets that marched with the Big Yin at those UWC marches and those nice motorcycle outriders in their fetching dark sunglasses and combat bush hats that used to escort peple like nice guy Reggie and Davy Trimble around at those Vangaurd marches?

  • borderline

    Hey Dread,

    stop giving us the British Army technical gun jargon please.

    We’re starting to quiver and cry down here.

  • aquifer

    I have no problem with a civilian irish police force steering clear of this sectarian gun cult for a bit.

    The only people who need a dead policeman or fanatic are the leaders of this sad little murder gang.

  • pól

    Aquifer, I agree. I doubt that the leadership of this scumbag rump of a dying ‘violent tradition’ would be anything less than ecstatic if a gunfight had have ensued.

  • Greendeezel

    It is about time that true Republicanism emerged to show its face.
    Lets not forget that the definition of “Republicanism” is for those that willingly support armed, physical opposition to the occupation of the 6 counties.
    In terms of the PSNI, I know some of the local lads that joined the PSNI, therefore common sense would suggest NOT to tackle 6 armed men in S. Armagh!

  • Greendeezel

    In terms of the “anti social behaviour” warning:
    A lot of people do fear how things have changed since the end of the Troubles. The return of normality has seen an increase in:
    1) Muggings
    2) Break ins
    3) Car thefts
    4) Drugs
    5) Abuse
    6) Immigration
    Obviously people do not wish a return to full scale violence, but there was a level of control. People knew not to step out of line or else…

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Greendeezel: “In terms of the PSNI, I know some of the local lads that joined the PSNI, therefore common sense would suggest NOT to tackle 6 armed men in S. Armagh!”

    So, cede the streets to the dogs and whistle past the graveyard, neh?

  • Greendeezel

    DMN: “Just over the hill is narrow water, down the road is where two high ranking ruc men were shot, a mile away is where mr nairac of the sas was captured and on it goes. the psni will be aware of all this and move accordingly.”

    Nostalgic for the good auld days, eh?

    yes….