DUP and TUV agree to by-pass electorate

According to the BBC report, there will not be a by-election in Ballymoney to replace outgoing DUP member Roy Wilson. And, apparently, a TUV councillor, Mark Russell, is to step down in Craigavon. Although there doesn’t seem to be same animosity involved as with former TUV Cllr Charlie Tosh. From the BBC report

Instead councillors accepted a proposal by the DUP to co-opt Robert Halliday into the seat. The decision follows a week of talks between the two parties. The deal between the two parties also means that the DUP will not seek a by- election in Craigavon, where TUV councillor Mark Russell is to resign. The UUP has also been involved in discussions with the TUV in Craigavon.

Update Mark Devenport notes that the plan may yet go awry..

According to SF Councillor Mairead O’Dowd “The facts of the matter are that Sinn Féin has been seeking to co-opt a replacement for Councillor John O’Dowd MLA for a considerable time in line with our policy of ending dual mandates between the Council and the Assembly. Throughout that time we have been reliably informed that the only Councillor who would object to such a co-option would be Mark Russell and that he would force a by-election in such circumstances at a cost of £25,000 to the ratepayer. The same Mark Russell now tells us that he will himself be co-opted off the Council because the DUP and the TUV have a cosy deal which, quite frankly, is worthless.”

Sinn Fein wants any arrangement to include them, but the TUV has responded that if republicans force a by-election in Craigavon “we’ll happily fight and beat them”. the TUV says it won’t seek or give any favours to Sinn Fein.

So potentially the TUV could find its deal drops apart and the ratepayers are still stung for £25,000.

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  • michael

    Jasus.

    It’s like watching Howard Moon square off against himself.

  • Drumlins Rock

    least it makes some scense as prob within a few months co-option will be more straight forwards, why waste tens of thousands on un-need elections, will enough of those next yr and yr after

  • Drumlins Rock

    whos howard moon btw?

  • Gagging for a renewed IRA campaign

    Buck buck buck buck buck buck.

    What a piece of chicken shite. Chicken Jim he should be called.

    As reported on BBC NI’s website on 5 July, Jim Allister stated, in relation to this potential by-election, the following:

    “Of course it throws up the opportunity of a by-election, and we’re not ones to run away from such opportunities. I look forward to that testing of the water in a constituency which is for some reason attracting increasing interest.”

    Pete, surely now that the TUV seem to be in the process of losing over half of their councillors this situation deserves, nay requires, thorough analysis and incessant postings related to the matter?

  • Pete Baker

    Oh My God! Gagging

    Did I not just highlight the point that a TUV councillor is resigning?

    However, we don’t know why, yet.

  • Gagging for a renewed IRA campaign

    Pete, is there a rule on this site that one must post under the same name at all times? If not then I would suggest that you respect my right to anonymity before I am forced to take the action required to remedy the situation.

    [i]Did I not just highlight the point that a TUV councillor is resigning?[/i]

    Yes, but you have yet to provide thorough analysis and incessant postings related to the matter? Not knowing the real reason behind certain resignations has failed to prevent you from expressing your opinion and viewpoint in the past.

  • Glensman

    OMG,

    What action to remedy the situation?

  • Pete Baker

    “Yes, but you have yet to provide thorough analysis and incessant postings related to the matter?”

    If there are further developments/statements then either I, or another Slugger blogger, will post on it.

    “Not knowing the real reason behind certain resignations has failed to prevent you from expressing your opinion and viewpoint in the past.”

    Such as when, exactly?

  • Drumlins Rock

    ok guys heres the list of councillors from the TUV web page, how many have left or been added since 2007?
    Cllr Frazer Agnew (Newtownabbey)
    Ald James Alexander (Ballymena)
    Ald Cecil Calvert (Lisburn)
    Cllr Leslie Cubitt (Limavady)
    Cllr Boyd Douglas (Limavady)
    Ald Roy Gillespie (Ballmena)
    Cllr Sam Gaston (Ballymena)
    Cllr Stephen Herron (Banbridge)
    Cllr Mel Lucas (Antrim)
    Ald Jack McKee (Larne)
    Cllr Audrey Patterson (Ballymoney)
    Cllr Mark Russell (Craigavon)
    Cllr Robin Sterling (Ballymena)
    Cllr Charlie Tosh (Castlereagh)
    Cllr David Tweed (Ballymena)
    Cllr William Wilkinson (Ballymena)

  • ben

    One fundie bigot with no conception of any political issues other than the Union is the same as another, surely.

  • Gagging for a renewed IRA campaign

    [i]“Not knowing the real reason behind certain resignations has failed to prevent you from expressing your opinion and viewpoint in the past.”[/i]

    For example, when Cllr Foley resigned in Strabane a couple of weeks ago. I don’t think the man really knows himself why he resigned but that failed to prevent you repeatedly expressing an opinion on the matter e.g. on the initial post relating to the matter you explicitly linked the resignation with what you described as previous “indictators of discontent” within the party in the town.

    Subsequently, however, Foley claimed that he resigned because party commitments were taking up too much of his time and because he wanted to spend more time with his family. Most importantly, he clearly stated, when interviewed by Radio Foyle and his local newspaper, that he had no objections to the leadership of the party or its policies i.e contrary to the content of the link which provided in your post that highlighted a lack of appetite within the party locally to take up seats on the DPP

    Onn each occasion that someone makes a claim in relation to something that you may or may not have done and you subsequently request information to validate the accusation, you then invariably dismiss the evidence provided as worthless or irrelevant. No doubt you will do so again.

    I repeat to you, is there a rule governing the posting of comments this site that one must post under the same name at all times?

    DRock, I had no idea the ‘party’ had so many councillors. I thought it was four or five maximum. Thanks for that.

  • Drumlins Rock

    its not quantity its quality that counts , lol

  • Pete Baker

    For the benefit of casual readers, here’s the post Oh My God! Gagging is referring to.

    “I’m still a councillor”

    And from a subsequent post, a link to an Irish News report. [which may or may not work]

    This link though [Google cache], includes the quotes from Cllr Foley

    “People say there must be something in the background but there isn’t,” he said.

    “I just made a decision and spoke to my family and the community and they supported me.

    “I want to work more with the community but I was going to too many party meetings.

    “I felt I was bypassing the people and my daughter was growing up past me.”

    And the request from SF that he resign from the council.

    The party said they expected Mr Foley to step down from the council and make way for a party co-option.

    But, back to the actual topic..

  • Gagging for a renewed IRA campaign

    Exactly, you clearly insinuate that Foley’s resignation was linked to the discontent within the Strabane branch related to the party’s support of the PSNI. Nowhere in your musings do you include his actual version of events.

    Anyways, for the third time I ask is there a rule governing the posting of comments this site that one must post under the same name at all times? If not, why do you feel the urge to highlight the fact that I use multiple names? I’m fully aware that you can see my IP address when I post and, quite likely, have at your disposal more detailed information. So why the need to suggest some sort of subversion on my part?

    If it is this site’s policy that individuals must post under one username, or else they will be ‘exposed’, as it were, then please direct me to where this is explicitly stated. If not, then I repeat the above: why did you feel the need to make public two of the names that I post under?

  • Drumlins Rock

    we get the point Pete, you dont always have to take the bait, back to the topic though, was this a bit of good old pragmatism showing its head for once in Unionist politics, maybe it is, council by-elections are alot of hassle to go through in the face of a general election due soon, on the other hand whilst the DUP certainly dont want to fight it out with Allister yet, why did Jim pass on an opportunity for more free publicity in the next couple of months than he could buy in the next ten years, even if he lost both seats if he was close at all he would surely gain from the publicity…
    maybe we are missing something,

  • I am surprised by this. The TUV have everything to gain in Ballymoney, whilst in Craigavon I have no reason to believe they’re any less popular with unionists than elsewhere in NI.

    Indeed the DUP didn’t gain Trimble’s seat by telling the electorate what they’d do in 2007 now did they?

    I suspect they’d win Ballymoney if they could get UUP transfers, whereas even if they lost in Craigavon they’d presumably put up a good fight an have something of a base for future elections.

    Of course some other Councillors from other parties should ruin the deal by rejecting the co-options.

  • A lot of people surprised at the TUV decision not to oppose the co-option tonight. This would have been Allister’s big opportunity to get a significant win in North Antrim which would in turn given him some momentum and bolstered his chances of taking the Westminster seat in the coming election.

    It really does look like the TUV bottled it as Allister had been talking as if they were definitely going to oppose a co-option a number of weeks ago. The belief locally is that the TUV would have actually finished 3rd with SF finishing 1st and DUP 2nd. The deal being cited tonight is to save Jim’s blushes. If he was confident of taking this seat in North Antrim he would have opposed tonight’s co-option. The fact that he didn’t speaks volumes.

  • Drumlins Rock

    Conq the other parties dont want to be accused of wasting 30k or so on an un-necessary by election, didnt do the UUP any good in Fermanagh, although guess it made the DUP look a bit desperate in being forced to bring in a big hitter.
    Still wonder is there more to it in Craigavon, must ask around about Marks Russels reasons for going now.
    maybe there is more, maybe not…
    Just as a side line its interesting the councils that have a TUV councillor, Limavady is the only nationalist one, Ballymena has its six, who seem to be a bit of a law onto themselves, the rest are just one councillor (castlereagh is of course of the list now) I wonder how many candidates they will stand, or will they throw all in North Antrim, guess that one for another day, and another day and another day…

  • Hugh Regan

    Diathi-

    Was there talk that Jim Allister would run himself in Ballymoney?

  • Pigeon Toes

    “Conq the other parties dont want to be accused of wasting 30k or so on an un-necessary by election”

    It’s hardly a “significant” amount…

  • Drumlins Rock

    Daithi,
    If you though there was the chance of taking a seat why did you not object and force a By-election?
    Not getting at you personally, but is there a consensus on this issue usually between the parties? The whole co-option issue is going to get messy over the next 18 months, there are alot of councillors who held on because of the council changes coming, but they arent fit for the job and just want out, some are hoping for a big payout of course! other dont want to risk the by-elections, I know the rules are supposed to be being revised, but when is this gonna happen? or can the parties agree among themselves to allow co-options in virtually all circumstances.
    (oh I do think your being a bit optimistic about winning the seat, espically if Enniskillen was a gage of by election thinking)

  • Daithí, I’m surprised you weren’t in Ballycastle today.

  • Drumlins Rock

    PT, several MP’s have been forced out over much much less over last few months.

  • Pigeon Toes

    “PT, several MP’s have been forced out over much much less over last few months”

    I know, and so have some honest citizens and their families (though out of the country)

  • It looks like a little bit of Unionist horse-trading. Mark Russell, according to the last election results, looked like a fairly minor DUP figure in a very strongly Unionist DEA. It looks likely that TUV would have lost its seat in a by-election.

  • boss hogg

    Well Turgon what Tosh will you give us on Russell

  • YelloSmurf

    I personally think that co-option should be used more widely as an AV election for one member is not the same as an STV election for several members. eg If someone sneaks in and takes the last seat, the only seat for thier party, and then dies (I’m felling brutal towards my hypothetical councilor), co-option ensures that those who voted for thier party are still represented whereas a by-election would result in that party losing thier seat. It doesn’t always work like that, Barney Fitzpatrick took a seat in Colraine against the odds, but that strikes me as a bit unusual. Generally I think that co-option is the way forward.

  • danielmoran

    nevin…ms25 signs of sunny jim’s gang breaking free of it’s moorings already? this doesn’t do much for the credibility of the TUV. perhaps allister should have thought this one through properly before what now looks like a major embarassment. it shows that nrth antrim is not the watertight stronghold of unionism we are used to thinking of it as. encouging for mckay and shinners in the mnost unlikely of places. Since the time of dromore, i’ve thought that sunny jim was less concerned with winning seats for tuv, than causing losses to the dup purely to spite them. this backing down over a mere council seats suggests otherwise now.

  • Daniel, as I said, it looks just like horse-trading. I’ve no idea when the Russell story broke. You’d have to factor that into TUV decisions.

    One interesting snippet from the European election feedback. I’m told that in some strongly SF boxes that in was SF #1 and no transfers; an outworking of ‘ourselves alone’ mindsets. This approach pretty well would have wiped out any chance of a second Nationalist seat.

  • typical

    always nice to see Pete Baker running away when challenged over the way he treats this site like his own little fiefdom

  • Drumlins Rock

    OMG,

    is that you again?

  • typical

    no, as hard as it is to believe there are actually at least two people who dislike the way in which baker conducts himself on this this site. but anyways, why don’t you ask pete? – i’m sure he’ll give you some more personal information about people commenting on slugger

    and for the record drumlins rock – yes you of “i’ll not be taking any cheaps shots against the GAA, not like the way you boys are doing against my lovely OO”.. only to deliver a low blow just hours later – if i want to use different names when commenting here then i’ll do it, as is my right, until told that it’s against policy etc. etc.

  • Drumlis Rock

    ahh come on typical, let me off with that one, it was set up and i just had to respond! yous dont give a guy much slack here do yous.
    BTW I dont know anyone on this site so have dont who cant stand who, I jsut comment on the post im interested in and ignore the rest, in Petes case I ignore about 2/3 of them lol, but when he does post one like this that is of interest I dont like it being hi-jacked for personal squabbles,
    saying all that if you, I, or anyone else choose to use different names we should be free to do so unless we are abusing it, and for administrators to reveal thier identity is an abuse of thier position.
    I apologise for calling you OMG, it was merely intended and a light hearted joke, I havnt a clue who you are, and just that operates both ways!

  • typical

    no worries, DR, you seem like a reasonable man. apologies for any offence caused

  • Drumlins Rock

    No probs mate, I try,
    do many of the guys on here know each other? wonder at times if im missing something!

  • fair_deal

    Possible hitch boys and girls Craigavon SF are pointing out they have a co-option issue on Craigavon that they want sorted too.
    http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17075

  • Drumlins Rock

    things have just got interesting again on the TUV front, Sinn Fein wont let them do a co-option on Craigavon unless they get to do one there too, but Jim wont do them any “favours”, so what happens now…

  • This is priceless!! Don’t often agree with the Shinners but I did wonder whether or not PSF or the Stoops had given the nod and, if they had, wondered what sort of deal they’d have cut. “Breathtaking arrogance” indeed.

    Bottler Jim has a lotta thinkin’ to be getting on with! Looking forward to sitting back and watching how this plays out

  • Drumlins Rock

    funny thing is he left the deal too late, cant go back on it in Ballymoney now I persume? wonder will the pressure be put on Mr Russell to stay on for now?

  • Pete Baker’s favourite troll

    Your silence speaks volumes, Pete

    Yours,

    Pete Baker’s favourite troll et al

  • Pete Baker’s favourite troll

    Is that the sound of tumbleweed?

  • danielmoran

    egotistical maniac…. msg13
    that’s what i thought, that shinners could object to this cosy scam. The only question is whether they would actually do it, because they might be tied into side deals with duppers that they’ve left themselves no way out of.

  • Different Drummer

    Daniel M

    You imply that the non squaring up of the DUP & TUV parties indicates that TUV and Jim-Ulster-Allsiter are defanged….not so compadre.

    Because there is no campaign at the moment and you forget what Jesus said to his mother when she asked him to perform. ( Jesus was also a political strategist he had to be with all those Romans and fundis about.)

    – He Said

    ‘Now is not the time’

  • ardmajell55

    Different Drummer…. I’m happy enough for jim allister to keep up the mischief against the duppers. long may he continue. for your next paragraph…. i’ll get back to you on that when i have a week off…..

  • Drumlins Rock

    Still think we are missing part of this story guys,

  • ardmajell55

    Drumlins rock…
    wheels within wheels? you might very well comment, i couldn’t possibly think that.

  • Different Drummer

    You don’t have to wait that long Aramdinajad55(?)

    Jim [Ulster] allister to keep up the mischief…….?

    -Jim-Ulster-Allister mischievous……?

    How dare you say that about a ‘brother-in-Christ.’

  • ardmajell55

    DD how dare you call me ‘imadinnerjacket’. i’ve never even been to iran. brother in christ my a**e

  • Differrent Drummer

    Aramdinajad55(?)

    He’s a fundimentalist too isn’t he?

    Anyway you don’t seem to have left for your ‘week off’…..

    Sure reply back when you can

  • ardmajell55

    DD je ne suis un fundamentalist, a mentalist possibly but not a fundie

  • Different Drummer

    Aramdinajad55(?)

    I’m sure you’re harmless

    I can’t say same about Jim Ulster Allister.

    You want to see him in power?

    Or are you too just a mischief maker?

  • the sound of silence

    Pete Baker:

    for the [b]fourth[/b] time, I’d like to ask you whether or not there is a rule governing the posting of comments on this site which states that one must post under the same name at all times? If not, why do you feel the urge to highlight the fact that I use multiple names? I’m fully aware that you can see my IP address when I post and, quite likely, have at your disposal more detailed information. So why the need to suggest some sort of subversion on my part?

    If it is this site’s policy that individuals must post under one username, or else they will be ‘exposed’, as it were, then please direct me to where this is explicitly stated. If not, then I repeat the above: why did you feel the need to make public two of the names that I post under?

    I’m not going to go away, you know (unless I’m banned)

  • ardmajell55

    DD i certainly do not want to see sunny jim in power. what i wanted was for him to take enough votes to undermine his former party and reduce the dup back to where it was before the 2005 westminster election. that’s the mischief i was referring to. some of those nine seats have small majorities so would be vulnerable. the uup could get them back as before.

  • ardmajell55

    the sound of silence…. i don’t know why you sent this one to me, except possibly in error as it has ‘pete baker’ at the start.

  • the sound of silence

    “This one” wasn’t “sent” to you. My comment was clearly directed at Pete Baker. For future reference, all comments made on a thread on which you may have previously commented do not necessarily have to be directed. Had you been bothered to read this thread in its entirety then you would understand why I have felt compelled to address this issue once again.

  • ardmajell55

    sound of silence msg 5
    sorry about that.

  • Different Drummer

    Armmajellen55(?)

    Yes that would be a circuitous route to a more liberal regime on the hill and I do admit that I shared the happiness of Jim – Nicholson on his vote – if only people like him were strong enough to defeat the DUP and Jim Allisters TUV undead.

    But they weren’t but I must say given what has happened it is a beautiful thought – a JFK type figure for Unionism…. the closest we got was Captain O’Neil and look what happened to him….

    In the long run nice Unionists don’t win here.

  • Neil

    Sock puppetry adds nothing and takes away plenty. Now I have to admit the other JOC is funny, but the problem arises when people start posting under different names, effectively talking to themselves (bolstering their own arguments, supporting themselves etc). There was a thread regarding rules a few months back and sock puppetry came top of the list for things to be banned, as suggested by the commentors on that thread.

    Neither were you outed, both your identities are not your actual identity. If he’d posted your IP or said you were John Smith (which actually happened a few years ago with a gent by the name of Aaron I think it was – that was being outed) then fair enough, but all he did was point out that you use multiple IDs.

    For the record, I’m almost always in total disagreement with his posts (well the political ones mostly, can’t argue with the science), and if you put a gun to my head and forced me to vote, I’d probably vote SF, so I’m not his cheerleader.

    However it’s my opinion that the sock puppetry should be explicitly banned, simply for the reason that for the average commentor it’s unfair to have the situation whereby you can be having an argument with six people, giving each other support, when in fact those six people are actually one person who hasn’t enough confidence in their own argument to approach it honestly. I can see no other reason to engage in the use of multiple IDs, unless as mentioned ripping the piss out of someone, (which is explicitly banned AFAIK).

  • danielmoran

    DD msg 7 i recall from 1969 that when o’neill was, as he put it; ‘literally blown out of office’ at the uvf bombing of the reservior works, he was replaced by the ineffectual chichester clark who you might say, was a ‘nice unionist’ i thought he was a moderate, but he still declared himself as being against one man one vote but since it was in place already when he took over, he let it stand. can’t thi nk of any other candidates for that description. certainly not bill craig or taylor.

  • Different Drummer

    Yes DanielMoran.

    You’re right about the moderate AND the imoderate label (he did vote aginst one man one vote) – he was a comproise candicate that the some of portadown parilment people could vote for.

    He was Ulsters John Major (with out the cricket).

  • danielmoran

    DD. cc was a least a good laugh during the two years he was in. He told how near the end in early ’71 he had to explain [very slowly] to the stormont cabinet that he couldn’t go to tell Heath to send more troops, while at the same time tell him to keep out of n. ireland affairs. in the event heath refused and cc had to resign to let faulkner in. strange times.

  • Different Drummer

    To Dan Moran

    Don’t think CC had much choice other than to speak out of both sides of his mouth at once – that is the problem form being a compromise candidate – which as you not the Faulkner succession was supposed to fix…

  • danielmoran

    DD … and faulkner fixed very little in the end. i’m out for a pint. it’s very close this evening. cheers.

  • Different Drummer

    Ahhhh……Beautiful Weimar enjoy it while you can….

  • Drumlins Rock

    this was a fun thread, wonder should I ressurect it?