Blame game for rioting begins…

'Water is Precious' in ArdoyneIt seems that Sinn Fein is determined to fix the blame for last night’s rioting on dissidents. The two Gerry’s have both been on the BBC this morning pointing the finger at dissident Republican organisations for being behind what at least has the look of premeditated (petrol bombs don’t generally appear spontaneously) violence. Meanwhile Brendan McCionnaith is placing the blame for triggering it on the police and on the Orange Order for persisting with a feeder march that’s not wanted by the residents on the Catholic side of the street. And he emphatically denies Sinn Fein accusations that his organisation eirigi was in anyway responsible:

“The whole PSNI operation in Ardoyne is reminiscent of similar operations on the Garvaghy and Ormeau roads in years gone by. From about 4pm onwards, hundreds of PSNI members in riot gear prevented residents from entering or leaving their area. Those who gathered to peacefully protest were violently attacked – triggering a predictable and undesirable response from a small number of young people, which the PSNI responded to in time honoured fashion with batons, water cannon and plastic bullets.

“The suggestion by Sinn Féin that éirígí orchestrated the rioting that occurred in Ardoyne is a transparent attempt by Sinn Féin to divert attention away from the outrageous actions of the PSNI. I challenge Sinn Féin to produce a shred of evidence to support their claims of éirígí involvement in rioting.

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  • John McIlveen

    “Those who gathered to peacefully protest were violently attacked – triggering a predictable and undesirable response from a small number of young people”

    An official peaceful protest was to – and did – take place as the Orange Order were passing Ardoyne. The “Peaceful Protest” that Brendan McCionnaith is referring to was an unofficial protest that was not filed for and was thus illegal. The worst part about this Eirgi-led protest was that they didn’t speak to anybody in Ardoyne about it, or seek to get the permission of people from Ardoyne.

    They knew exactly what response they would get from police because they knew exactly that this was an illegal protest. They also knew exactly that this would be the trigger for hoods and thieves and gangsters that came to the area looking trouble to get what they wanted.

    Eirgi’s language and actions are of the past. The only thing they, and others, succeeded in doing last night was make the world believe that everyone in Ardoyne are animals.

    The best way I heard the instigators of last night’s stupidity described was “Fools with no tools”….. I think that sums them up brilliantly!

  • Amused that the tactic of ‘busing in’ so robustly attacked. Of those arrested and charged after the last riot on the Ormeau Road at an Apprentice Boys Parade (with full dialogue in process) the majority were from outside the Ormeau or even South Belfast area – where were the objections then?

  • J Kelly

    The people of Ardoyne don’t want outsiders to be using there community for their own purposes. This is both the orange order and so called dissidents. The Martin McGuinness was on the money at Bodenstown and again today the Orange Order need to step up to the mark and make a contribution to the peace process and this can be done in the first instance by speaking to residents in contenious areas. Secondly if so called dissidents want to fight a war go and do it without using hood, drug dealers and criminals who have areas like Ardoyne and Bogside terrorised the other 364 days of the year.

    Fools with no tools…brilliant and it really sums them up.

  • John McIlveen

    Bussed in or not, it all boils down to dialogue with the people in the area and seeking – and obtaining – their permission for your actions.

    This was not done by the people who instigated last night’s stupidity.

    That, added to the using of disaffected young people and hoods, gangsters and thieves makes them “fools with no tools”… bussed in or otherwise!

  • Former Ardonian

    John, your’s is the wisest post on here today and the most honest.

    Funny, those who say that people weren’t bussed in are contradicting the local preist.

    Either he’s lying or they are.

    Fools with no tools, indeed.

    Brilliant description.

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    But where’s the Chris Donnelly article deploring the utterly unacceptable violence, sententiously reminding us how this utterly unacceptable violence utterly damns the community responsible [sic] for it? Plainly there’s a piemergency of immense proportions somewhere . . .

  • parade trouble

    Residents on the catholic side of the street?

    But where the parade marches is past shops and only passes a nationalist area for about 2 mins of the route.

    I think people are falling victim to a lot of the misinformation put about by the likes of McConnaith

  • Former Ardonian

    I’ve just viewed the footage of the riot. And it is clear that these were just teenage hoods being marshalled by squat middle aged men in baseball caps.

    It was pathetic.

    I was expecting to see hordes of rioters but there were only a handful of utter wasters.

    Actually, that is unfair – these kids probably are brain dead with no propspects and are being used by middle aged morons.

    They may not like the label, but that makes them child abusers in my book.

  • John,

    Free men and women surly do not need police permission to demonstrate in their own country, that they do in the UK is a warning of just how far it is slipping into becoming a police state.

    That SF feel they must ask permission from the police before they can PEACEFULLY protest speaks volumes about where your at.

    By all means criticize éirígí, if that is how you feel, but to condemn them because they refused to go to plod cap in hand is, to put it bluntly pathetic.

  • Con

    1. The worst part about this Eirgi-led protest

    What makes you say the protest was éirígí-led, John?

  • Padraig

    Gerry Kelly, who planted a large bomb which went off in the centre of London near the High Courts is now standing, on TV lecturing us on the dangers of firing rifles at riots. A practise in such widespread use by Republicans and others over the Last Campaign as to be hardly worth commenting on.

    I have the increasing feeling I am , as far as Sinn Fein statements are concerned entering total bizzaro land. He sounded like a Major PR’ing for British Army HQ at the heights of the war here, ‘Young kids being used; rifles dangerous in built up areas…ect, ect.

    Sinn Fain have become so twisted and part of the establishment here I think that there heads are protruding up their rectums.

    I await to hear of the elevation of Gerry to Lord Keely of the Bailey next.

    Sickening.

    Totally sickening.

    This from a fellow old lag.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Fick Yeilty

    How can you lead with, “Blame game for rioting begins…” ?

    You know as well as every other journalist the blame lies solely with the intolerant Nationalists who can’t tolerate Orangemen and loyalist bands. END OFF.

  • dunreavynomore

    Listened to Kelly this morning as he said several times that orange marches were being ‘forced through.’ If they are being forced through then Kelly should be rounding on those doing the’forcing’ rather than those who resisted being ‘forced’ to accept. As usual S.F. want their cake and to eat it at the same time.

  • John McIlveen

    mickhall

    If you read my post properly you’ll find that the “permission” i was referring to is permission and consultation that wasn’t sought from Ardoyne residents… ie no legitimacy whatsoever to the unofficial Eirigi-led protest (and con i seen many Eirigi members instigate that unofficial protest).

    Incidentally, the fact that is wasn’t filed for is just a plain reality… not that i agree with filing protests with the Parades Commission (not the cops as mickhall is suggesting, they just have to work the Parades Commission determinations).

    However, people know that to instigate an unofficial protest will get the reaction it got from both cops and hoods, thieves and gangsters.

    Eirigi, RNU, CIRA, RIRA 32CSM et al, all need to catch a grip…. or just simply ask permission from Ardoyne residents before trying a stupid stunt like last night… Ardoyne residents will give them a clear answer “take yourselves off!”

    Fools with no tools still applies no matter how yas try and dress it up!

  • Mark McGregor

    John,

    The notification of a protest, Form 11/3, has to be submitted to a PSNI Officer not below the rank of sergeant. Of course a republican group like éirígí that explicitly rejects the PSNI’s legitimacy will never comply with this.

  • RepublicanStones

    Laughing Tory Unionist you must have missed the thread 5 before this one.

  • Mark McGregor

    However, the information I’m receiving from various sources is that éirígí were not involved in the riots and SF are making an entirely erroneous claim for some reason.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    and you believe them Mark?

  • Dave

    “However, the information I’m receiving from various sources is that éirígí were not involved in the riots and SF are making an entirely erroneous claim for some reason.”

    Probably because they got the same propaganda memo that Tommie Gorman was reading from on RTE’s main evening news last night. He uttered the word “dissidents” so many times that I thought he had a stutter.

  • Reader

    Mickhall: Free men and women surly do not need police permission to demonstrate in their own country, that they do in the UK is a warning of just how far it is slipping into becoming a police state.
    Are you applying double standards for Nationalists and Unionists, or do you think either group *should* be allowed to go where they wish? And sort matters out (peacefully?) when they both get there?
    Just like the good old days, in fact…
    Tell us: When you have secured your free-for-all movement about the city, what stops the troubles from kicking off all over again?
    And if the Government of the Republic endorsed the Parades Commission, would that ease your worries about republicans obeying the same law as everyone else?

  • cynic

    “seek to get the permission of people from Ardoyne” tp protest.

    What an interesting phrase! Just who in Ardoyne does one apply to to get permission? Is it a legal process/ Is there an appeal mechanism?

  • cynic

    “Free men and women surly do not need police permission to demonstrate in their own country, that they do in the UK is a warning of just how far it is slipping into becoming a police state.”

    … perhaps so but this came about from legislation that nationalists and republicans sought, not the Unionists. It was mainly designed to control Unionist parades so why are you happy that the expression of identity and views by those who want to parade is controlled but not that counter demonstrations might be?

    And your comment on ‘free men dont need permission’ is nonsense. ECHR clearly recognises that the right to protest is balanced with other rights and isnt absolute

  • Reader and cynic

    I realize this issue is complex and I agree our civil rights need to be balanced carefully so they do not lessen those of others. Nevertheless, I do not believe a policeman (or a governmental quango appointee come to that) has the necessary impartiality to play any constructive role in this process.

    I also disagree that our most basic human rights are not absolute. For example as far as I am concerned the right to ‘peacefully’ protest should be set in stone and we should not need to ask the State for permission to do it. The dangers of going down that road must be obvious to all. Especially these days in the North where there is no democratic parliamentary opposition.

    Once we start asking for permission to protest peacefully we are giving legitimacy to the reactionary legislation that prevents us from doing this spontaneously, etc.

    What is the difference between the Iranian government insisting that people apply for a license before they protest and what we are debating, I see none. In both countries there is a long history of central government undermining peoples right to protest.

    That annual parades have become mixed up with the right to protest just shows the dangers of slippage within such legislation.

    Best regards

  • Reader

    Mickhall: That annual parades have become mixed up with the right to protest just shows the dangers of slippage within such legislation.
    Exactly wrong. In fact, it’s the fundamental problem with *your* approach. When the Orange Order sends a protest down the Garvaghy Road because they aren’t allowed to parade down there, are you going to be the one to tell them they are forbidden to have a peaceful protest?
    And if you won’t allow a quango to make such a decision, does that mean you want the exclusive right to make all of those decisions yourself?

  • Reader

    Thankfully I am not in a position to tell anyone what to do and nor do I wish to, unlike some it seems. Instead of trying to personalize things why not deal with the issues I raise.

    You seem to have gone off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the events we were debating.

    If people decide to come down that road, why should people need a police approved license to gather and tell them they are not welcome.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Mickhall: “I realize this issue is complex and I agree our civil rights need to be balanced carefully so they do not lessen those of others. Nevertheless, I do not believe a policeman (or a governmental quango appointee come to that) has the necessary impartiality to play any constructive role in this process.”

    And, yet, nationalists and republicans fought for said laws and quangos…

    Mickhall: “I also disagree that our most basic human rights are not absolute. For example as far as I am concerned the right to ‘peacefully’ protest should be set in stone and we should not need to ask the State for permission to do it. The dangers of going down that road must be obvious to all.”

    And, yet, you think nothing of denying the OO their basic human rights of speech and assembly with nary a second thought.

    Mickhall: “That annual parades have become mixed up with the right to protest just shows the dangers of slippage within such legislation. ”

    Not hardly. Unpopular speech is unpopular speech, full stop, eirigi or the OO, Republican or Unionist. If you accept that freedom of speech is a basic human right and an absolute, how do rationalize that the OO be prevented from marching?

    What you *really* seem to want is a right to free political speech, defined sufficiently narrowly so as to exclude the OO and anything else you don’t like.