Slugger out and about for ‘Orangefest’

I have no idea how this one will work out but I’m intending to head to an 11th night bonfire and 12th parade this year (held on the 13th I understand). I’ll be bringing my baggage along with as open a mind as I can muster and intend blogging on the days, with maybe some twittering, as things progress. I’ve already had two offers of escort and help explaining any confusing aspects from a tweet.

What I’d now like to know is do other Slugger folks fancy joining up for the day? Republicans looking to challenge themselves? People that just haven’t been before? People willing to guide others through events and hold their hands if they get nervous?

Ideas of what to do, joining up and offers of assistance all welcome.

btw: this isn’t intended as a ‘One Small Step’ type thing, I’m as happy to come away with prejudices reinforced as reconsidered.

UPDATE: after speaking to Mick we will be running a live blog via Cover-it-Live – participants, supporters, demonstrators, the just pure apathetic and Slugger readers that get along to where ever for however long for whatever reason will be able to add their views.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    well said Quincey, the Sir Edward Carson memorial f.b. is not paramilitary at all. Maybe republicans and Nationalists need to to learn more about the Protestant, Unionist culture and tradition, because it seems they’re off track.

    Who could blame them though, the An Phoblat magazine tells nothing but lies and encourages division and sectarianism.

  • eranu

    RepublicanStones, “don’t marry a taig etc etc etc”
    from my bible knowledge i think that is related to not having anything to do with false teaching. to protestants many catholic beliefs and practices would be seen as biblicaly incorrect and therefore false. other religons are also false teaching. not marrying a catholic or muslim etc would be just observing what the bible says.
    im guessing catholics also accept the part of the bible that says a christian should not marry a non christian. im not sure unbelievers are able to understand why someone of christian faith should not be yoked with them though.

  • Carnlough

    How the hell would you know ulster is my home land?you denied they existed!idiot

  • Does the same apply to GAA teams that take part in a paramilitary commemeration?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Carnlough Connely fuuuute band

    Who did I deny existed?

  • Carnlough

    It may well do but the GAA dont exhibit such intentions in protestant or mixed areas

  • carnlough

    The uvf band from Glenarm

  • ulsters my homeland

    “[i]The uvf band from Glenarm2[/i]

    The Edward Carson Band…??

    The Sir Edward Carson memorial f.b….??

    what about the ‘carnlough UVF band’?

  • Big Maggie

    Big Maggie: ‘Neanderthal “cultural” celebrations’

    So much for respect and tolerance. Sounds rather arrogant and conceited to me.

    Posted by 6countyprod on Jul 02, 2009 @ 11:10 AM

    Of course it does and I apologize without reservation. I meant of course to write “Cro-Magnon”.

  • Carnlough

    Heres the simple truth.sir edward carson f.b. Glenarm are barred from marching in Carnlough for paramilitary trappings.FACT Carnlough flute band have attended a UVF commemeration in the past.FACT

  • Ulsters my homeland

    carnlough, there’s another UVF band started up near Carnlough, its to do with the 1st world war, should we run or scream?

  • Carnlough

    See when confronted with the truth about your precious bands you cant accept it and change the subject

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]See when confronted with the truth about your precious bands you cant accept it and change the subject

    Posted by Carnlough2[/i]

    what are you talking about your moron? what bands do you think re my precious bands?

  • Dave

    UMH, while repartition would grant your nation a state in which it was free to promote its own culture, the ironic thing is that it would also make that culture redundant, thereby making the cultural imperative for a separate state redundant. Why? Because Orange culture is based on supremacy over another nation – remove that other nation, and your culture dissipates. So, your triumphantalism will be paradoxically defeated if you ever actually triumphant. 😉

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Glad to here from you Dave, but as usual you’re full of nation/state ideas. Maybe someday you will concentrate on how these nation/states come to live without war, without sending in troops??

  • ‘knowing rightly’ is what the majority of people in this Country base their opinions on- its hardly science. The Glenarm band has been given Ulster Scots Agency Funding, organises weekly flute and drum tuition for young people in the area and hold many social/ charity fund raising functions as well as their normal routine of taking part in band and loyal order processions. Via a friend in the area i can confirm that the band has never been negatively named in any parades commission determination and is not barred in even a quasi-official capacity from taking part in Carnlough band events.

    If a GAA team is invited to a paramilitary commemeration (an event named in their honour) does the same reasoning apply?

  • Carnlough, you have no problem with paramilitary commemerations or people taking part as long as its done in culturally homogenous areas???

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Carnlough, would it be possible to bring the Carnlough Connely flute band together with this Carnlough UVF flute band you say is banned from Carnlough?

    as you seem to be the only one who knows this Carnlough UVF flute band, maybe you should try the outreaching?

  • RepublicanStones

    UMH you are aware the OO predates Ne Temere by quite a bit????!!!!! Nice try tho 😉

    Eranu are the Hindu, Muslim, Jewish religions etc explicitly stated in the rules for the OO in the manner in which catholicism is?

  • Ulsters my homelands

    RepublicanStones, look further back from Ne Temere, its the same principle, just not so graphic on paper.

    The idea was still the same, reduce other religions and ecpand the RC faith.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Mark, you’ve got my ip address, how about you give me your home address and phone number and I’ll show what its like building a fire in Rasharkin?

  • Mark McGregor

    Mark, you’ve got my ip address, how about you give me your home address and phone number and I’ll show what its like building a fire in Rasharkin?

    Posted by Ulsters my homeland on Jul 02, 2009 @ 07:11 PM

    Is that a threat in the middle of the irrelevant guff you and others have been adding to the thread?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    don’t be so paraniod, give me your address and phone number and we shall have a sluggerfest/Orangefest/not in my garden fest/ and one of them other things

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘look further back from Ne Temere’

    Strange way of admiting you were wrong.

    ‘The idea was still the same, reduce other religions and ecpand the RC faith.’

    Proselisation…wow those damned Catholics are the ONLY ones who ever tried it.

    Laughable stuff as well as a poor and particularly chronologically idiotic effort to excuse bigotry.

  • eranu

    mark, fair play to you for making the effort to go to orange events. i would agree with other posters and suggest the best way to get enough of an experience to form an opinion would be to go to several events both in the country and in belfast. i would also suggest that you seek out places and events that have made efforts to change to a family friendly atmosphere, or have done something more culturally focused or religiously focused, somewhere that would be considered positive. it would be a waste of time to just go to some hole of an area to see whats going on at 1am after people have been drinking all day etc. you will only see exactly what we would all expect to see.
    hope you will be taking plenty of pics and video?

  • Strange way of admiting you were wrong

    ‘The idea was still the same, reduce other religions and ecpand the RC faith.’

    Proselisation…wow those damned Catholics are the ONLY ones who ever tried it.

    Laughable stuff as well as a poor and particularly chronologically idiotic effort to excuse bigotry.

    maybe we should call it Republican Stones philosophy

  • Ulsters my homeland

    [i]The idea was still the same, reduce other religions and ecpand the RC faith.’

    Proselisation…wow those damned Catholics are the ONLY ones who ever tried it.

    Laughable stuff as well as a poor and particularly chronologically idiotic effort to excuse bigotry.

    maybe we should call it Republican Stones philosophy[/i]

    Posted by Strange way of admiting you were wrong

  • RepublicanStones

    Its not Philosophy dear boy. Theology…maybe, bigotry? yes, with a little bit of idiocy thrown in for good measure from UMH himself.

    Btw next time you post, notice there is no space between my name….god man 😉

  • Carnlough

    Quincey-paramilitary displays on either side is pointless and insulting.can you friend from glenarm explain why the glenarm band no longer march in carnlough on black saturday.also with your knowledge of bands could you confirm to that idiot ulster is my home land that carnlough has a loyalist flute band.

  • DTA

    Mark, I recently heard a rumour that loyalist paramilitaries are ‘welcome’ at this years bonfire in Lurgan. Only a rumour but in any case there is likely to be suitable insightful displays of bigotry and hatred to reinforce your/many other’s prejudices.

    Given the recent tensions in Lurgan this could be an exciting/dangerous if not then hilarious venue. Might be useful for you to go along.

    I certainly wont be attending however.

  • 6countyprod

    You’re right Maggie. There is a little touch of French influence there.

    Maybe it’s from the ancestors of those Huguenots who escaped the slaughter of St. Bartholomew’s Day and came to settle in ‘The Nort’. Loooong memories!

  • Glenarm

    Carnlough, that well-known R&R centre for West Belfast Republican types, a village famous on the Antrim coast for dropping bombs on police cars from its bridge, open and welcoming to its minority unionist community.

    What Orange band in its right mind would want to drive through it at speed let alone walk there?

  • Carnlough

    What band?try the carnlough band which has most of its membership from glenarm.are you’s for flying uvf flags this year in your lovely little sectarian village?

  • Carnlough i was refering to your comment re paramilitary commemerations… “… the GAA dont exhibit such intentions in protestant or mixed areas”

    For information County Antrim has 117 bands who would consider themselves from the Protestant Unionist Loyalist tradition. Off the top of my head Glenarm has 2 flute bands and there also is a Carnlough Flute band. There are several bands of other genres as well.

    There is no restriction on what you refer to as the Edward Carson Band walking in Glenarm. Bands are engaged by Orange Order and Black Preceptory lodges under a number of factors including availability. There is nothing to stop the local RBP engaging the Carson band for future Black Saturday celebrations should they have no other band.

    Edward Carson was the effective commander and chief of the UVF from its formation in 1913. It shouldnt be a suprise that a memorial band to him would have some element of Volunteer symbolism.

    Half of the problem in these respects is that symbolism is misunderstood. It is then abused and castigated. In turn raising the heckles of those engaged in bonafide historical commemeration. And in turn maintaining a chain that allows no window for explanation, education or understanding.

  • Big Maggie

    RepublicanStones,

    “Proselisation…wow those damned Catholics are the ONLY ones who ever tried it.”

    LOL.

    All who’ve ever tried Big Maggi’s [sic] famed Gingery Carrot and Orange Soup were instantly converted :^)

  • cut the bull

    check this band web site the band whiuch often marches in Orange parades seem proud to carry the flag of the Red Hand Commando which was established as aLoyalist murder gang in the 1970’s. http://www.nireland.com/petemc/

  • cut the bull

    Photos which appeared on the East Belfast Protestant boys FB web site showed men in modern day black combat uniforms leading this band at a function in a Pub Scotland.

    Other Photos which appeared on the Whitewell defenders FB web site showed uniformed masked UDA/UFF men laedins this band at a parade in rathcoole carrying the bands flags.

  • Big Maggie

    cut the bull,

    Wow, Red hand Commandos. And I was given to understand the OO is a Xian organization.

    I wonder what version of Scripture they’re using. Surely not this one.

  • Carnlough

    Quincey-there is no doubt you have a vast knowledge though with this knowledge could you explain this.how could the loyal orders allow a band such as cloughfern young conquerors to appear at their events?they have no historical links and carry the name of dead paramilitaries.

  • cut the bull

    The the Whitewell Defenders and the Rising Sons of the Somme flute bands still participate in loyal order parades as those bands flags have a direct link to the UDA/UFF Red Hand Commandos and the modern day UVF

  • cut the bull

    I forgot to mention the East Belfastr Protestant Boys as well a band with flags that are linked to the modern day UVF

  • RepublicanStones

    Big Maggie that sounds gorgeous.

    Btw, with the 12th being on the 13th are the boneys goin to be moved? Im sure thats not what Shakespeare had in mind 😉

  • Dave

    “Glad to here from you Dave, but as usual you’re full of nation/state ideas. Maybe someday you will concentrate on how these nation/states come to live without war, without sending in troops??” – Ulsters my homeland

    I don’t think it’ll take a full day to reflect on that. It’s quite simple, really: they avoid wars by not declaring them. On the other hand, those states which claim not to be nation-states but states-of-nations (the US, the UK, and the disbanded USSR) did tend to neglect that simple rule and, consequently, have declared a disproportionally large number of them.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    I love mentioning this… the ironic fact that the very ‘British’ King James was deposed in favour of a ‘foreigner’ from Europe, the Dutchman King William with a blessing and support from the pope himself…..Bonkers! ha ha

    It seems that the auld throne is up for grabs to anybody!

  • Reader

    Big Maggie: Wow, Red hand Commandos. And I was given to understand the OO is a Xian organization.
    Read it again – he didn’t say a lodge, he said a band.
    A more reasoned argument might be that a lodge that hires a band for some event is responsible for their choice of band. But ‘cut the bull’ has yet to feed you that line.

  • Erasmus

    Remember, William’s fight wasn’t just for Protestantism, it was for religious and civil tolerance.
    Please google the ‘Penal Laws’ whose period of operation overlapped only to a minuscule extent with any time of objective threat of replacement by a Catholic monarch.

  • Erasmus

    ,I love mentioning this… the ironic fact that the very ‘British’ King James was deposed in favour of a ‘foreigner’ from Europe, the Dutchman King William

    ‘Two alien monarchs in battle did join,
    to see whose fizogg would appear on a coin,
    if the Irish had sense they’d throw both in
    the Boyne….’
    – Dominic Behan

  • Erasmus

    The idea was still the same, reduce other religions and ecpand the RC faith.
    From the Orange oath:
    And do you further promise to resist, by all lawful means, the ascendancy, extension, and encroachments of that Church; (the Catholic Church) at the same time being careful always to abstain from all unkind words and actions towards its members, yea even prayerfully and diligently, as opportunity occurs to use your best efforts to deliver them from error and false doctrine, and lead then to the truth of the Holy Word, which is able to make them wise unto salvation?

    Petard, hoist, whoosh..

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    Ah ‘The Sea Around Us’ by Dominic Behan

    “Two foreign old monarchs in battle did join,
    Each wanting each head on the back of a coin,
    If the Irish had sense they’d drowned both in the Boyne,
    And partition throw into the ocean.”

    here’s another good one…

    “The Scots have their whisky, the Welsh have their speech,
    And their poets are paid about tenpence a week,
    Provided no hard words on England they speak,
    Oh Lord! What a price for devotion”

    True too! ha ha

    Gréagoir O Frainclín

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Greg, what If I’m a Catholic how could I be part of your set-up?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Mark, go to Kilkeel on the 11th. that’s if your serious.

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    “Greg, what If I’m a Catholic how could I be part of your set-up? ”

    ….and what do you mean exactly UMH?

  • Brian MacAodh

    “as the Irish state once represented that exact same tyranny William fought against, it may be incorrect to say the Irish state represents that today.”

    Yes, such tyranny. The Free State basically had a 20th century version of the Penal Laws. Protestant ministers had to live on the run to avoid hanging. Also, Protestants couldn’t vote, get elected to office, or have access to education.

    I find it hard to believe you actually believe some of the stuff you right. William, fighting for freedom and liberty??? Ha

  • Cushy Glenn

    don’t be stupid Brian
    Everyone knows that the only Prods who were discriminated against were the openly dangerous ones like librarians, or shopkeepers in Fethard on Sea. Apart from people like that- and who could defend them- of course we accept that the Free State was a wonderful place. So tell us again just when discrimination crosses that invisible line and becomes unacceptable

  • Brian MacAodh

    Discrimination isn’t acceptable, but that really has nothing to do with William fighting for “liberty”. It’s simply not true.

  • Erasmus

    On the sectarianism stakes, if you configured N.I. (1921-1972) at 10, the R.O.I. over the same period might barely, with a stretch of the imagination, scrape 1.
    I can name two elected Protestant deputy prime ministers in the Southern state – one a Lisburn Presbyterian. Can you name even one *elected* Catholic minister in the 1921- 1972 period?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Brian MacAodh

    William didn’t make the penal laws, the English Parliament did. William gave the Catholics of Ireland the right to freedom of their religion and liberty by encouraging them to set up their own parliament and practice their own religion as is evident in the treaty of Limerick, 1691. Instead of supporting William and his claim to the throne they rebelled in support of the Papacy and the Jacobites.

    Its the same old story with the Irish, they don’t know a good thing until its gone. The Vatican would eventually relinquish their claim to the English throne and so began the long slow drawn out affair of Catholic emancipation.

    If only the Irish could think for themselves instead of being guided by an organisation like the Vatican, which, at the end of the day, only think of itself and couldn’t give too hoots about dead Irish.

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    Ha Ha ..UMH’s take on Irish history is hilarious as usual.

    More anti-Catholic jibberish. You miss the point that the Irish had a right to be Catholic and support their ‘British’ King James as they saw it and not a foreigner.

    At least they stayed loyal to the rightful ‘British’ king too, I suppose, unlike those who supported the foreign usurper of the British throne, William the Dutchman, and who could be classed as TRAITORS.

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    BTW, The Pope supported William of Orange at the Battle of the Boyne too, UMH. This has been stated umpteen times here before.

    Why does this information not register with you?

  • Erasmus

    The Catholic Irish were faced with the lesser of two evils. By definition the Williamites were the ‘rebels’ in this instance.
    ”Treason never prospers because if it does few dare call it treason”
    -Dryden.