Purge of ‘The Foreigners’ continues unabated in South Belfast

BBC Newsline is reporting tonight that more than 100 Romanians have fled their homes in south Belfast following yet another series of racist attacks in the area (earlier attacks were reported here and here on Slugger.) One family home had been attacked five times in the past eight months and twice in the previous 24 hours. A public rally organised last night, in the aftermath of a number of attacks on homes occupied by Romanians, was attacked by a gang of local youths chanting racist slogans. Update: The 115 Romanians have been put up for the night in a church in the city, with a five-day old child amongst their number.

  • Democratic

    “Regardless of who started the trouble at the NI/Poland game, the fact is people were intimidated out of their homes in the aftermath.”
    Yes Ms Wiz – very true and a total disgrace – but I will pull you up when you ask irrelevant stirring questions like “Who were Northern Ireland playing this time?” No parallel agendas on this one please…..

  • Socialist Layabout

    These people are laying around on benefits, doing nothing, getting paid by the state not to do it too!

    Not the Roma, you understand: the wee lads who bottled us on Monday night.

    Norn Iron: highest level of ‘economic inactivity’ in the UK – that’s DLA to you and me.

    Taking our jobs? Do me a favour.

    And as for all you wee experts on the Roma, go and find out about what you’re talking about would you?

    http://www.paveepoint.ie/progs_roma.html
    http://www.itmtrav.com/

    Oh and here, I was there all evening on Monday. Far from ‘socialist layabouts’ I met a load of folk from the area, a trade unionist from the Village, citizens of Belfast (Turf Lodge or wherever), workers and students, and there were more than 100 there at the peak of the protest – which is why about 30 people were able to chase after the wee lads bottling us – in other words, people who don’t have a ‘not in my street’ mentality but see this whole city as our city. Not the wee lads’ city, the fascists’ city, but OUR city.

    I couldn’t give a toss about all the ‘it was prods / it was taigs’ crap being rehearsed here. it was fascists, geddit?

  • Daniel Jewesbury

    hmm. am i the only one here who sees a link between the unbridled private development that was sold to us as the ‘answer’ to rebuilding after the Troubles, and the social disaffection that’s come about since? Trickle-down economics were the only option we were given after ’98, private development was the way we were going to rebuild our damaged society..

    Surprise surprise, it didn’t work, there were no new jobs worth the name, no proper housing, all we got was luxury flats for wankers, victoria square, shiny new shops, and meanwhile, increasing segregation and sectarianism. and now the shiny shops are closing too…

    And then we pretend we’re surprised when communities turn in on themselves, attack those they think are ‘different’ (which is anyone, whether they come to that conclusion by racist or sectarian thought processes) and we try and allocate ‘blame’ without understanding how the situation has arisen.

    As usual, our instrumentalisation by capital and the concomitant exclusions from society come back to kick us in the teeth. And as usual, a whole host of people here rush to justify the attacks. What a mess.

  • Greenflag

    Good man McGuinness 🙂 Now lets hear from the other ‘leaders’.

    The Romas have been discriminated against in eastern europe for a thousand years not just in Romania but also in Hungary , Slovakia and other states -former empires in the East .

    They were restricted in what they could do to earn a living just like the Jews . The latter group through ‘forced’ assimilation into the banking ,trading and financial areas ( european aristocrats preferred war , land management and church service to trade ). Not to mention ‘usury’ was a mortaler (Sin) . For the Roma there was no other ‘niche’ to eek out a living than on the margins of european medieval society. Their situation was many times worse than ‘irish ‘ travellers in that at least the latter were not distinctively ethnically different from the surrounding population .

  • Chicken Hammer

    A mess indeed. For exactly those reasons I think. What I find most depressing about reading the comments on this thread is the attempts from some parties at justification for what is simply a disgusting racist attack. As Daniel points out, racism and insular fear, ignorance and hatred do not spring forth from a vacuum. The systematic decimation of areas like the Village, which has frankly been left to rot (the post-conflict dividend doesn’t seem to apply to largely working class areas), coupled with appalling, cynical leadership and an acceptability of the language of discrimination (just look at some of the ‘but they aren’t like us’ near-justifications by colleagues on this thread) all adds up to the sorry state of affairs we have now. And it’s not exclusive to south Belfast or indeed to loyalist areas by any means, but it does seem to be more prevalent there. Community leadership seems to be in the business of making excuses rather than condemning outright. There is an argument to be made for the fact that the attackers were victims of societal neglect themselves, but before we do that, we have to accept that regardless whether Roma are ethnically Romanian or not, whether they’re genetically pre-disposed to thieving or not (somebody actually said that – unbelievable) it’s racist and criminal to attack somebody because of their difference. As for the NIPS, sorry PSNI, well their record of handling race crime in south Belfast speaks for itself ie it’s rubbish.

  • Ms Wiz

    Democratic

    I was being spurious. The Poland match was, according to the BBC, advanced as the reason for the last outbreak of ‘racial tension’ in the area. So what pray tell brought on this latest ‘tension’? Were gangs of Roma making sortees into the Village?

    The racists don’t need an excuse to attack people but it seems plenty of people in the media and on this site would like to provide them with one.

  • John East Belfast

    Nobody seems to appreciate the irony that Belfast is probably a 90% segregated city already and hence what is happening is simply more of the same. I think we need to face up to reality instead of all this shock horror.

    If a Catholic family moved onto the Shankill Road and a Protestant family onto the Falls how long would you think they could stay here.

    Families picking up their belongings and being internal refugees has been going on in Ireland for centuries.

    Two of my child hood memories – and they must have been pretty significant as I can recall them clearly – was crying after my two best childhood Catholic friends had to flee their home in East Belfast around 1971. Not long after I was packing boxes for my grandfather to help him flee his family home on the Springfield Road along with all the other Protestants in his street.

    We are completely blind.

    We have all created this mess because we are all happy to live in Protestant or Catholic areas and we perpetuate the problem from the outset by educating our children in separate schools. The vast majority of our kids dont meet the other religion until they get to work or university. We cant even support the same “national” football team and our Deputy FM cant even call Northern Ireland by its true name.

    I think it is lazy to call this racist. I wont deny that the the knuckle dragging brutes are probably that and more. However this is more to do with our own religious divisions and segregation. I dont know what the religion of Romania is but I suspect the culprits think they are Catholics. Hence it is simply our own problems manifesting themselves.

    The Chinese and Pakistannis have lived in Protestant areas for years without any problem.

    The fact that Catholics could be nationalists is not something that has been missed by Republicans – one of the four key groups identified at the SF Manhattan conference last week as important for a successful United Ireland in a future border poll.

    There are sinister but smarter people in loyalist communities who would see this as a threat and who would send their hench men out to do the dirty work as they did in the past.

    Hence I think it is intellectually lazy to brand the motives as purely racist or xenophobic. This is part of our age old problem and something everyone here – by perpetuating a segregated society – has helped create and continue.

  • west belfast

    100 protesters my arse….no more than twenty and outnumbered by journo`s…

    and by the way not one of them actually lives in the area according to the media…

    so NO support from the community who have to suffer these gypsies…

  • Dictionary Corner

    Maggie

    “BTW there’s a rather large grey beast in my living-room, with tusks and a very long snout. Anyone know what it is?”

    is it a mirror ?

  • villager

    @chicken hammer
    [quote]whether they’re genetically pre-disposed to thieving or not (somebody actually said that – unbelievable)[/quote]
    Who?

    Socialist Layabout, are you a social sciences student by any chance? A lovely little link to an intervention program for Roma, I doubt whether this kind of thing will fix the problems, certainly not anytime soon. I don’t want us to embark on experiments, the problems would not arise without our present open borders free-for-all.

  • Chicken Hammer

    West Belfast
    NO support from the community who have to suffer these gypsies…

    As far as I understand, Wellesley and Belgravia are essentially filled with houses of multiple occupancy and most residents are students, migrant workers and young professionals. I’m not sure exactly what collective ‘community’ was being directly affronted by having Roma families living there. Perhaps you’re referring to white people? As I understand from reports, a ‘white’ man and his Indian wife were also threatened by these racist thugs. Perhaps the same ‘community’ could no longer put up with suffering the travesty of a mixed race relationship in the vicinity?

  • Socialist Layabout

    @ villager:
    Socialist Layabout, are you a social sciences student by any chance?

    Er, no mate, i’m a self employed person who’s worked in this city for 13 years. And guess what, I’ve worked with Roma and Traveller groups on what their common problems are and why they choose to organise together.

    Are you a moron by any chance?

  • Chicken

    Villager
    I will concede that it wasn’t directly expressed in that way (and I let my incredulity at it being expressed at all run away with me) but the sentiment has most certainly been intimated by several people who I suspect should know better.

  • socialist Layabout

    Why are idiots [West Belfast] obsessed with how many people there were or were not at the protest on Monday? I was there, there were about 100 people at the height, and plenty of people who i know and who live in the bleedin area!! what’s the big deal? are we going to deny that the lisburn road exists now, ‘according to the media’? are we going to deny it even happened? get over yerselves, people got attacked, people came out to do something about it, fact, now go out and do something less boring instead, idiots.

  • villager

    Their common problems do not belong in Belfast, they should not be our problems!

    I asked you if you were a social sciences student because you link to some well meaning pish that is common from academics. Just to pick out a random footnote from the pdf:[quote]The author of this report agrees with The National Action Plan Against Racism that: ‘All human beings belong to the same species’. Therefore the plural of the term race should not exist however, ‘the term ‘race’ continues to be applied in a legal context at international and national levels’, The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform (2005-2008): Dublin, pp 38.[/quote]
    Utter shite.

    Am I a moron by any chance? In the words of Bill O’Reilly WISE UP!

  • James

    ‘The Chinese and Pakistannis have lived in Protestant areas for years without any problem.’

    Tell that to the chinese community in the Donegall Pass area, John eb.

    “The influx of yellow people into Donegall Pass has done more damage than 35 years of the IRA’s recent campaign of republican propaganda and violence waged against the Protestant community of Donegall Pass. It is eroding the Britishness and the Ulster Protestant culture and heritage from our area more than the IRA could ever have hoped to do.”

    “These foreign immigrants have no sense of Christian values or decency and have no respect at all for our community. Rid our community of these Chinese immigrants and clear the way for Protestant families to move in and our young people to remain and contribute in helping to make our community a better place to live.”

  • Socialist Layabout

    Poor wee villager. She / he doesn’t understand the complicated long words. The Roma project at Pavee Point is run by and for Roma. It’s ok, you sit and doodle in yer dribble here on Slugger, mate.

    In the words of Spaceman Twat, I’d love to sit and exchange insults with you, but I have a job.

  • villager

    Go do it then.

  • The missing link
  • villager

    I couldn’t be arsed to find out who wrote it. I don’t understand the complicated long words?[quote]the plural of the term race should not exist[/quote]
    How can anyone understand this kind of Orwellian garbage? Can you explain it genius?

  • Big Maggie

    Dictionary Corner,

    “is it a mirror ?”

    I don’t know what sort of looking glass you use but mine doesn’t have tusks :^)

    John East Belfast,

    “I dont know what the religion of Romania is but I suspect the culprits think they are Catholics.”

    I made this point earlier, half in jest. Not so funny for the victims I’ll grant you. I’d be surprised if the attackers even knew where Romania WAS.

  • west belfast

    typical socialist rhetoric…lose the argument revert to abuse…

    facts are facts there were no more than a few demonstrators and no more than 20-30 all of whom don`t live in that area.
    Secondly no residents from that area were at the blow in demo…

    People have had enough of these gypsies and no amount of trotskite spin will change that…

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    The Roma/Romani people are Orthodox or Catholic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people#Religion

  • A ROMANIANGUY

    THESE ARE GYPSIES,ROMA people that are from ROMANIA. But ROMANIANS are Romanians ,we are Vlachs people a mix of latin and thracian people with slavic DNA too.

    Please look at this film about Romanians and GYPSIES

    I am not racist but I AM VERY FED UP TO BE PORTRAIT AS A GYPSY BECAUSE I AM NOT A GYPSY ,I AM A NORMAL EUROPEAN CITIZEN,I AM POORER BUT I WORK,I DONT BEGG,I DONT STEAL. The gypsies bring only shame to my country.SHAME. I feel so offended because people say gypsies they think to Romanians. THATS NOT TRUE

  • Democratic

    “The racists don’t need an excuse to attack people but it seems plenty of people in the media and on this site would like to provide them with one.
    Posted by Ms Wiz on Jun 17, 2009 @ 01:28 PM”

    Agreed Ms Wiz – Agreed.

  • Ms Wiz

    The UTV website tells of armed men forcing their way into the Romanians’ homes and threatening them with being shot.

    Superintendent Chris Noble of the PSNI then claims there is no co-ordination between the attacks. Does he expect us to believe that opportune racists normally go to such great lengths that they would threaten people at gunpoint? Or shall we call a spade a spade and say we’re dealing with loyalist paramilitaries here.

    Do the cops think people are really that stupid?

    http://new.u.tv/News/Fleeing-families-to-be-re-housed/27a0c4dd-ffa0-4d33-8b14-72cb838a1c16

  • Swerve

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0617/breaking46.htm

    “Loyalist turned away from centre

    Leading UDA figure in south Belfast Jackie McDonald was turned away today from the leisure centre where Romanian families are staying following racist attacks in the city.

    Mr McDonald claimed he wanted to help the families who had been caught up in the attacks. However, he and three colleagues were stopped from entering the premises by a police officer outside.

    Clearly irritated at being turned away, Mr McDonald nevertheless said he utterly condemned the targeting of the families. He added that work was going on within the community to ensure that those involved stop.

    “We’re trying to talk to young people to encourage them not to do what they are doing,” he said.”

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Lawsuit for Mr McDonald. God the PSNI are stupid cretins.

  • Greenflag

    Romanian guy,

    I am not racist but I AM VERY FED UP TO BE PORTRAIT AS A GYPSY BECAUSE I AM NOT A GYPSY ,I AM A NORMAL EUROPEAN CITIZEN,I AM POORER BUT I WORK,I DONT BEGG,I DONT STEAL. The gypsies bring only shame to my country.SHAME. I feel so offended because people say gypsies they think to Romanians. THATS NOT TRUE. .

    You may be a normal european citizen RG but if you are living in Northern Ireland – you are not living in a ‘normal’ european democracy and you never will. If you don’t know that by now then perhaps this ‘pogrom’ may open your eyes . This news has spread throughout Europe and has once more tarnished Northern Ireland’s image if such is still possible 🙁

    Catholics and Protestants yesterday -Gypsies today so who will they come for tomorrow ?

    The PSNI need to get up off their butts and arrest these thugs and put them away for a very long time . These thugs are no more amenable to ‘education’ than a rat in a sewer !

  • Little Adams

    Why do Romanians (and Chiense) not joing trade unions in Irleand? Siptu has many Polish, Slovak etc organisers but no Chinese or cream crackers. Why not?

    Perhaps we can unite Protestant, Catholicd and Dissenter on “Cream Crackers Out – North and South”.

  • Diluted Orange

    [i]Leading UDA figure in south Belfast Jackie McDonald was turned away today from the leisure centre where Romanian families are staying following racist attacks in the city.

    Mr McDonald claimed he wanted to help the families who had been caught up in the attacks.[/i]

    In what capacity could McDonald ‘help’ the Roma in the leisure centre, apart from the obvious tried and tested physical method that is?

    He represents no-one. Unelected and unrepentant but loaded to the gills with government money for being a good boy and refraining from whacking Catholics over the last few years. Ironic that when perceptions of criminality have led to locals forcing Roma out of their homes that the biggest crook out, and King of the Spides himself, comes to the rescue of folk forced out by the spides he would appear to be in control of.

    Maybe Jackie is going to buy them all a house with the hard earned money he has acquired in the pursuit of ‘political research’ over the years? What a guy.

    P.S. No one tell them they are probably all Catholics.

  • Colin

    ‘P.S. No one tell them they are probably all Catholics.’

    According to the TV news report this evening many of those terrorised out of their homes were attending a Presbyterian church.

    A member of the church spoke very highly of the Romanian people who regularly attend their services.

    Jackie McDonald has a cheek showing concern for the Romanian people forced from their homes. Is this the same McDonald who mobilised the UDA in the area around Windsor Park to attack Polish supporters before and after the recent Northern Ireland international game.

  • Big Maggie

    Jackie McDonald is truly the unacceptable face of Unionism.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Thousands of gypsy children brought to Britain to work as pickpockets, warns MP.

    “As many as 2,000 children of Roma gypsies have been trafficked into the UK to be schooled in the art of street crime by modern-day Fagins, the Government was warned today.

    Tory Anthony Steen (Totnes) said the children were brought to Britain for the express purpose of committing crimes and “milking” the benefits system.
    Sold for up to £20,000 each, they were “debt bonded” to criminal gangs and could net as much as £100,000 a year, he claimed.”

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]Jackie McDonald is truly the unacceptable face of Unionism.”[/i]

    He’s not the prettiest of pictures, but he has a right to go into the local community centre. Hope he sues the PSNI, because they certainly wouldn’t stop a shinner from entering a local community centre.

  • Diluted Orange

    [i]He’s not the prettiest of pictures, but he has a right to go into the local community centre. Hope he sues the PSNI, because they certainly wouldn’t stop a shinner from entering a local community centre. [/i]

    Sorry, what right has been breached here?

    I have as much right, as does any other poster on this forum, to walk unannounced into the local community centre as Jackie McDonald does. He is unelected. He has no mandate to do anything in the name of the community he purports to represent. I would fully suspect therefore that the PSNI would turn me away in a similar circumstance, seeing as the venue is being used to house a group of people which have been hounded out of their homes by members of said community.

    Your point about the shinners is irrelevant. On the whole both are scumbags, however in the most part the SF reps will at least hold some sort of elected political office.

    What would Jackie McDonald sue about anyway? FFS this whole episode is not about him, or the infringement of his or some other self-indulgent tw#t’s percieved human rights. If in the aftermath of an event of Republican violence 20 odd years ago, where the police suspected the involvement of the IRA – do you think they would have let a SF spokesperson enter a hospital to see the relatives of a victim of that violent act? Of course not.

  • UMH,

    The issue of trafficking is not to be dismissed. The MP you mention is the gentleman who resigned his seat because the public were “jealous” of his private forest paid for with public funds. He is hardly a reference to be citing.

    That said, there was a Sunday World piece a few years ago which detailed some of these allegations and the magazine, not to be confused with the legitimate Big Issues, had no traceable contact details, except a vague advertising number which led to an answering machine. This could be part of the same problem, if indeed there is a problem. It seems certain that the matter has not been sufficiently investigated.

    But you miss the key point. There would be, in that case, victims of enforced slavery and trafficking. That is all the more reason why we should ensure that that crime is not compounded by neo-nazi hate crime. Human traffickers need to be dealt with by the law, and have been in some cases.

    The answer is not blind racism against Romanians. Nor is it to confuse the visible minority of migrants who beg with the silent majority who do not.

    To the Romanian who wishes to plce himself above the Romany community, you are not far from the perpetrators of these crimes. Romania has for too long accepted that kind of racism. This shouldn’t be the case in a place that, one might hope, has less corruption to manage.

    To those who say that racism is wrong but so are Gypsy neighbours, ask yourself whether there is a slight contradiction there. To those who say Ireland or the UK should close its borders to migrant workers, consider the economic repercussions, particularly when tourism is an aspiration, of leaving the EU. The world is now irreversibly globalised in a way that makes that kind of isolationism economic suicide. Try to change the model, but don’t try to go it alone. To those who think racism is ok, but only in the case of one community, read a book.

    Regarding the possible involvement of loyalism, that is a reason to unite and say that, in no community is the voice expressed by paramilitaries. If some good could come of this, it would be that racism is confronted, the Shared Future strategy is resurrected by OFMDFM and effectively implemented.

    There have already been cases of French citizens going to Morocco to work in delocalised call centres, at local wages. In all probability, Irish and British graduates will be going to Eastern Europe in the next generation for the same reason. I look forward to the reaction.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]Sorry, what right has been breached here?”[/i]

    It was the local leisure centre and McDonald has as much right as any other local to enter it.

    “[i]Your point about the shinners is irrelevant. On the whole both are scumbags, however in the most part the SF reps will at least hold some sort of elected political office.”[/i]

    Its a local leisure centre and therfore you don’t need to be an elected politicans to enter it.

  • Big Maggie

    “It was the local leisure centre and McDonald has as much right as any other local to enter it.”

    For leisure activities yes. But when it’s being used for the protection of victims of racism, an ex-terrorist is the last person one would want to see there.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    …and he’s a community worker for South Belfast as well as the UDA leader.

    Hope he sues the PSNI’s ass, cause they wouldn’t have the balls to stop a Sinn Fein community worker (elected or not) from entering a local leisure centre.

  • Reader

    Damian O’Loan: To the Romanian who wishes to plce himself above the Romany community, you are not far from the perpetrators of these crimes.
    So, you wouldn’t be placing yourself above the loyalist community, would you?

  • Reader,

    Read my second last paragraph.

  • Driftwood

    an ex-terrorist is the last person one would want to see there.

    So why was Martin McGuinness (a penchhant for murdering young protestant female census collectors) allowed in?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Romanians have lived and begged in the UK for many years, but it seems that a non-BNP part of the UK caused more uproar than any BNP area. This will be a shock for the ultra left wingers.

  • Driftwood

    *penchant*

    Double standards on what class of murderer allowed in to leisure centres.

    No surprise to see Jeffrey Donaldson (“Christian”) with his new best mate.

  • Spick Triffin

    http://bnp.org.uk/2009/06/bnp-leader-condemns-belfast-anti-gypsy-violence-and-immigration-policy-which-allows-it-to-happen/

    By the way, could the loyalist thugs commenting on this forum i.e. Driftwood and UMH, be stop, for once in your lives, from indulging in pathetic whataboutery. “Oooohhhhh McGuinness can’t possibly condemn babies being attacked coz he’s a murderer init.”

  • Ulsters my homeland

    shut yer beck spick Triffin and quit yer categorising.

    *penchant*….what a fab word Driftwood, it fits well until the killer of a protestant census collector is brought to justice.

  • Dave

    “The answer is not blind racism against Romanians. Nor is it to confuse the visible minority of migrants who beg with the silent majority who do not.”

    The ‘answer’ is not blind obfuscation from elected hacks such as yourself. You probably grasp what the problem is but it suits your purpose to ignore and to have those who highlight it (albeit in a thuggish manner) shut up about it by your tactic of squealing the word “racist” at them. Why is the UK allowing itself to be used as a welfare collection point for these people? Why are its people working hard just to pay taxes to support foreign nationals? They have not chosen to do any of these things but that is what is being forced upon by the anti-democratic regime in Brussels.

    “To those who say that racism is wrong but so are Gypsy neighbours, ask yourself whether there is a slight contradiction there.”

    Dear lord… anyone who doesn’t want engine parts on their front lawn or the value of their property dropping 40k is now branded a racist. Ask yourself why you need to obfuscate separate issues and ignore the culture of theft and violence that comes with these communities. There is a good reason why bar owners hate serving groups of gypsies and why those who refurbish bars must love these groups. Why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and move your family into one of these ghettoes before you lecture others. If the local council bought the house next to you to house them, you’d be the first to get your ‘anonymous’ objection in.

    “To those who say Ireland or the UK should close its borders to migrant workers, consider the economic repercussions, particularly when tourism is an aspiration, of leaving the EU.”

    You’re a bit of an professional obfuscator, aren’t you? If you weren’t already a politician, I suggest that you are well-suited to such a career. The UK would be better off to the tune of 56 billion a year if it left the EU. Ireland would not have been bankrupted by an external debt that exploded from 11 billion punts prior to transferring sovereignty over its monetary system to the EU to 1.67 trillion euros less than 10 years after the transfer. In addition, it would have given away the 100+ billion worth of fishing stock that the EU has plundered from Irish territorial waters. Nor would its industry be burdened down by a mountain of regulations that cost the industries in the EU’s member states in excess of 1 trillion pounds annually in extra costs. Proffering the argument that the EU blackmails its member states into transferring their sovereign powers to it under threat of exclusion from trading with member states shows how morally and politically bankrupt this squalid regime actually is and just how morally bankrupt you are. But, in actuality, it is not necessary to be a member state in order to trade with other member states.

    “The world is now irreversibly globalised in a way that makes that kind of isolationism economic suicide.”

    Not transferring the sovereign powers of the state to the EU is “economic suicide”? That will come as a surprise to China and the US, along with the other 176 of the world’s 203 states who are not members of the EU.

    “To those who think racism is ok, but only in the case of one community, read a book.”

    Oh do hush up if all your counter argument amounts to is squealing “racist” and “you’re ignorant” at those who hold the correct position on the issue of uncontrolled immigration.

    The issue of trafficking is not to be dismissed. The MP you mention is the gentleman who resigned his seat because the public were “jealous” of his private forest paid for with public funds. He is hardly a reference to be citing.

    That said, there was a Sunday World piece a few years ago which detailed some of these allegations and the magazine, not to be confused with the legitimate Big Issues, had no traceable contact details, except a vague advertising number which led to an answering machine. This could be part of the same problem, if indeed there is a problem. It seems certain that the matter has not been sufficiently investigated.

    But you miss the key point. There would be, in that case, victims of enforced slavery and trafficking. That is all the more reason why we should ensure that that crime is not compounded by neo-nazi hate crime. Human traffickers need to be dealt with by the law, and have been in some cases.

    “In all probability, Irish and British graduates will be going to Eastern Europe in the next generation for the same reason. I look forward to the reaction.”

    They will be reduced to this if they stay within the EU. That is the future that this squalid regime offers them, and that you as a europhile wish to inflict upon them in order to further your own demented Treaty of Rome agenda.

  • James

    Jackie McDonald trying to enter the Ozone complex was a bit like Radovan Karadzic trying to ask the residents of Sarajevo if they fancied a pint in the Taughmonagh Social Club !!

  • Spick Triffin

    [i]shut yer beck spick Triffin and quit yer categorising.[/i]

    Sorry bigot boy, are you now trying to communicate using ye olde Ulster Scots?

    An bhfuil Béarla agat mo chara bigoted?

  • Dave,

    I’d be happy to debate the issue of the EU v nationalism with you another time, but you’re trolling at this point.

    I’m not an elected hack, I’ve never been elected for anything in my life.

  • RD

    A handy compilation of some of the labels which one can effortlessly use to attack those with the audacity to claim that Gypsies ain’t all they’re made out to be (of which most have been used in one of the two threads here on Slugger in relation to last night’s/today’s events):

    = troll

    = bigot

    = attendee of a local adult learning centre

    = fucking halfwit

    = loyalist thug

    = racist

    = spide

    = part of the tracksuit-wearing unemployable class

    = Nazi

    = cretin

    = traitor

    = denier of esteem

    = the police are doing a shit job but it was us who asked for their powers to be emasculated in the first place you big lousey racist

    = advocate of sending Gypsies to the gas chambers

    Feel free to add further insults to this list as and when they arise.

  • Dave

    Damian, firstly, the EU is nationalism so you can’t add squealing “You’re a nationalist but I’m not” to the aforementioned list along with adding “trolling.” The EU is central to this debate since the unwanted Romanians would not be a problem if the EU did not have sovereignty and use it to promote the uncontrolled immigration that has created the problem.

    I understood that you were an MLA. I apologise for insulting you by putting you in that place.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]Sorry bigot boy, are you now trying to communicate using ye olde Ulster Scots?”[/i]

    Spick Triffin, waste of time communicating with you. First you call me a loyalist thug, now its a bigot communicating olde Ulster Scots. What next? LOL

  • RD

    We may have a winner:

    [i]And to you [b]spastics[/b] who see the Roma as responsible for the attacks by these ignorant plebs… [b]little shits[/b][/i]

    Posted by puca on Jun 17, 2009 @ 11:48 PM

  • Spick Triffin

    UMH,

    “bigot, loyalist thug” – that’s analogous to saying “football fan, enjoys football”

    “LOL”

  • Dave,

    Britain sought, and obtained, exemptions regarding immigration from Romania from EU practices. It is not a part of Schengen. It does not allow freedom of movement. It does not have uncontrolled immigration, it has an organisation called the UKBA.

    If you seek to use this moment as a tome to defend isolationism, you only weaken your argument. These are racist attacks. Those who defend controlled immigration are not racist. There is a clear distinction, and now is the time to say that this violence and those behind it or supporting it are wrong.

    On another day we can talk the finer points of immigration policy, but it in no way excuses this sad phenomenon.

    Cheers for the apology, no offense taken.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Spick Triffin, go and sling yer hook you leftie. Usual Limpwrister attitude from your sort, anyone who questions this countries failed immigration policy and the fact that we are one of the few nations who welcomes the Social security squad is deemed a bigot, a racist and a loyalist thug.

  • Big Maggie

    The Romanians to the best of my knowledge weren’t driven out of their homes by Nationalists, therefore no reason why Martin McGuinness should not be welcome in the leisure centre. Jackie McDonald on the other hand…

  • Ulsters my homeland

    still on the Jackie theme Maggie?

  • Driftwood

    therefore no reason why Martin McGuinness should not be welcome in the leisure centre.

    Ask the family of Joanne Mathers.

  • Driftwood

    Oh Big Maggie
    the difference between the two murderers?

    Martin is bought and owned by MI5

    Jackie is just rented periodically.

    minor difference, but not to their victims I suspect.

  • Greenflag

    German newscasts are now referring to Belfast loyalists responsible for this ‘pogrom’ as Neo Nazis

    Well I’d guess they should know ! Belfasts reputaion for intolerance , ignorance , backwardness and mindless violence has been given a new lease of life all across the TV news programs of the EU 🙁

    Naturally the good work done by the pastor gets less of a mention .

  • Greenflag

    German newscasts are now referring to Belfast loyalists responsible for this ‘pogrom’ as Neo Nazis.

    Well I’d guess they should know ! Belfasts reputation for sectarian intolerance , ignorance , backwardness and mindless violence has been given a new lease of life all across the TV news programs of the EU 🙁

    Naturally the good work done by the pastor gets less of a mention .

  • Big Maggie

    Driftwood,

    “Ask the family of Joanne Mathers.”

    Is she Romanian? Much whataboutery going on here, but what’s new?

  • Tradutonal Olster Scods Sapker

    Hoots Ae wudnae pudm id pasdem tae haf addacked demselves!

  • Senator Eoghan Harris

    Lisburn was in Southern Ireland

  • Dave

    “It is not a part of Schengen. It does not allow freedom of movement. It does not have uncontrolled immigration, it has an organisation called the UKBA.”

    Schengen deals with border control, not immigration. To claim that the UK “does not uncontrolled immigration” between EU member states because it has border controls between EU states is to obfuscate two separate issues: the right to enter and the right to enter without border controls. Checks at borders do not constitute the opposite of “uncontrolled immigration.” That is blatantly misleading.

    The UK does “allow freedom of movement” within the EU because it doesn’t have the sovereignty to prevent it. Freedom of movement is a key part of the EU’s integrationist agenda. The UK cannot stop a citizen from another EU state from living and working in the UK. It was granted transitional sovereignty which will expire in 2011, and after that it will have absolutely no control whatsoever over the amount of Romanians or any other EU nationals who choose to enter the UK.

    Because all states have citizens and territorial borders, the EU recognises the importance of this and engineered EU citizenship in the Treaty of Rome. Likewise, a state cannot be a state if it does not allow its citizens to move freely within its borders, so the EU, regarding its member states as the basis for its emergent state and regarding its member states’ citizens as its citizens, requires that its citizens can move freely within its state. Thus, this nefarious regime seeks to engineer itself into existence as a state.

    “If you seek to use this moment as a tome to defend isolationism, you only weaken your argument.”

    You have a very curious definition of “isolationism” in that you seem to regard its meaning as “one who is not in favour of unelected and undemocratic regimes such as the EU, but who advocates national democracy.” Or perhaps you mistake the EU for the universe rather than for an entity that seeks to become a state but that will not amount to more than 4% of the global population by 2050 (according to the EU’s own projections). What about the other 96% of the world’s population who won’t be members of this emergent state? Are they lamentably isolationist too?

    Now, regarding uncontrolled immigration: this is not something that the EU actually practices. Fortress Europe is very real in that the EU acts to keep “the foreigners” outside of what it regards as its state. In fact, the EU is a profoundly xenophobic entity. It only allows free movement for its citizens because, well, they are its citizens according to the Treaty of Rome. So why is the EU so “isolationist”? Anyone would form the misleading impression that it promotes free movement for all of the world’s citizens to come and go as they please when the reality it, like every other state (or, in its case, wannabe state), reserves that right exclusively for its own citizens (and for those they have arrangements with such as the UK and Ireland in the CTA).

    “These are racist attacks.”

    That is your opinion. They are actually attacks on foreign nationals (Romanians are a nation, not a race) and they seem to have a very clear political message. That messages seems to be that a state belongs to its nation, not to the nations of other states and not to totalitarian regimes such as the EU who are trying to engineer a state at the direct expense of other nations and their states.

    The UK people have not voted to give the sovereign powers of their state away to the EU. They voted to join a common market in 1976 and not a common country. The EU has no democratic legitimacy whatsoever from the people of the UK as it has no mandate from the public for the integrationist agenda that it is perusing and it will not have any legitimacy until the UK government hold a referendum on the issue (which the fascist integrationists know they will lose and hence refuse to hold).

    “Those who defend controlled immigration are not racist.”

    They are also wasting their breath because their state gave away their sovereign power to implement policy according to the will of its people. Their democracy is thus violated, rendered the people powerless.

    “There is a clear distinction, and now is the time to say that this violence and those behind it or supporting it are wrong.”

    People don’t need the hacks to jump up and down telling them that violence is wrong. They sort of figure that much out for themselves from the get-go. Why have they chosen to use violence to make a political point? That might be related to the violation of their democracy, since they are now powerless to argue for a change in immigration policy because, well, that would be related to the transfer of the applicable sovereignty to an anti-democratic regime in Brussels.

  • Aldamir

    I wonder what decreases the value of your property the most, living beside someone who steals the garden gnomes or living beside someone who puts bricks and petrol bombs through others’ windows. I’d suspect the latter…