Mostly business as usual

Today saw a rally at Belfast City Hall mainly organised by Community Workers ‘against sectarianism and in solidarity with the McDaid family and Damien Fleming’. They said they had organised the event after expectations that those normally involved in calling such rallies would act were not met. The turnout (circa 500) was greatly down on that of the recent rally after the killings of two soldiers and a PSNI officer. The number of city workers enjoying lunch and the sun in the grounds of City Hall seemed to outweigh those protesting. Much of our political class also found something else to do and it seemed as if some anarchists had the largest numbers present after SF. The police decided to keep the road open throughout the event and the people that spilled out into the first lane of traffic could barely hear speeches over the buses, cars and taxis rushing past. At one point a police officer shouted at people on the road to stand in. This prompted one woman to ask him why he wasn’t stopping the traffic, his reply of “I’m not bringing the City to a standstill” didn’t seem to impress her and she retorted “Why is this not important enough?” his angry response of “Sure aren’t I facilitating you” met with bewildered looks. Then the rally broke up and people rejoined those who had decided to do something else.

  • What do you expect?

    McDaid’s murder has been largely ignored by the media and politicos as it can’t be used to attack republicans.

    Typical

    and similar to the killing of Lisa Dornan and Devlin but the opposite to the heineous murders of Paul Quinn and Robert McCarthney

  • LURIG

    Not surprised about the PSNI. They only seem to stop traffic and close roads for Loyalist paramilitary funerals. I agree that many within the media, Unionism and the two governments are closing their eyes to this murder. The Robert McCartney killing was used and manipulated by all these same people for their own narrow agenda. However as there is no political capital to be made out of the death of Mr McDaid it is being conveniently sidelined. Then there is the UDA connection which has exposed the rotten hypocrisy and double standards in how Republicans & Loyalists are perceived and dealt with. Both the UDA & UVF are still up to their neck in sectarianism, criminality and drugs AND it being ignored. We see the stories in the papers every week about these thugs and their antics YET mainstream Unionism gives them a free reign and the two governments fawn over them. Meanwhile the Irish President hugs, kisses, embraces and indulges the Bacardi Brigadiers and her husband plays golf with them. Is it me or is there something rotten in all of this? A group of Tigers Bay residents approached a Sunday newspaper and complained about the drug dealing, threats and beatings being dished out by the UDA in North Belfast, the same group who have been putting up election posters for the UUP. We seem to be living in a parallel universe with regards to Loyalism where everyone pretends nothing untoward is going on. Where are Sinn Fein, the SDLP & Alliance in all of this, their silence is deafening.

  • fin

    “A group of Tigers Bay residents approached a Sunday newspaper and complained about the drug dealing, threats and beatings being dished out by the UDA in North Belfast, the same group who have been putting up election posters for the UUP. We seem to be living in a parallel universe with regards to Loyalism where everyone pretends nothing untoward is going on. Where are Sinn Fein, the SDLP & Alliance in all of this, their silence is deafening.”

    Lurig, I think you answered your own question before you asked it, so the residens have given up on their own politicans and gone to a tabloid. You wonder how they feel when they hear the DUP spew on about how they’ve stopped SF, stopped the ILA, stopped the Maze project, and got funding for the OO and Ulster-Scots. Yippee, all is good in the world.

    How long before an Ireland of equals begins to sound appealing

  • Lurig,

    I’ll take any legitimate criticism on the chin, but do also remember that the media have a huge role in setting the agenda on how these murders are covered.

    It is saddening that this rally was relatively poorly attended, but I didn’t know about it almost until after it happened. It didn’t seem to be as well publicised as some of the previous rallies, and it’s a pity that the full weight of the public sector trade union machine wasn’t brought to bear the way it has after past incidents (including after the murder of Danny McColgan, lest we start overegging the degree of double standards).

    If anyone is at the bottom of the hierarchy of victims in recent times, it is the totally innocent victims of dissident Republicans who are all but forgotten – who now remembers Emmett Shiels, murdered doing a night’s work for no reason at all?

  • Lisa Dornan and Gerard Devlin were children and yet their deaths didn’t seem to garner too many lines of print. I’d have thought their youth would have made the ‘stories’ more appealing to the media (callous as they are).

    What was it that Paul Quinn and Robert McCartney worked at that was such a contribution to society that they’re frequently mentioned in the media over an above other deaths in NI since. Did they work at cross-communtiy relations like McDaid ? Will the McDaid family be invited to Wash.DC like the McCartneys? Will the trip be paid for by SDLP members?

    Anyone remember who Paul Newton was ?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7348092.stm

    I don’t think I’m engaging in tit-for-tat but simply highlighting the discrepancy in reporting on the deaths of some as opposed to others. I’d also like to highlight the expressions of sympathy and calls for action from members of the political classes. Will Seymour Crawford and Fergus O’Dowd of FG and Labour’s Liz McManus attend a support meeting in Coleraine like they did after the murder of Paul Quinn (14Dec07) http://www.4ni.co.uk/archive.asp?Search=Search+News&criteria=crossmaglen

  • otto

    “Lisa Dornan” Do you mean Lisa Dorrian?

  • SeanPaul

    Lurig> Mark Durkan attended Mr McDaid’s funeral along with several SDLP representatives and they have issued several statements on the killing. It is a disgrace that it happened and I hope that those responsible are brought to justice.

  • Otto:
    yes, thanks for the correction & my apologies; see how easy it is to forget !!!

    I think my error is also proving my point (unfortunately).

  • Buile Suibhne

    Walked past the event but did not know its significance!

  • Anarchists from the Workers Solidarity Movement and Organise! were present at the march.

    Nice piece Mark,

  • “Anarchists from … Organise! were present at the march.”

    Ahem.

  • The Raven

    MyTuppenceWorth, you actually hit the nail on the head – kinda. What on earth was this event doing at City Hall…? It was sixty miles too far south for any effect on the thugs in Coleraine…

    (apologies if one IS organised for Coleraine…I certainly haven’t seen it…)

  • TomasPol

    Was Mr McDaid’s MP at his funeral?

  • Reader

    TomasPol: Was Mr McDaid’s MP at his funeral?
    Isn’t he a FreeP? But there were plenty of others who should have been there.

  • TomasPol

    It doesn’t matter what he is. He is the MP for the area and should be showing some leadership. If he’s not prepared to make difficult decisions and make a stand then he should give way to someone who will. There are far too many people in this country who only see things the way they are and are not prepared to see things the way they could be if only they removed themselves from their little comfort zones. Saying he’s free p is just one more excuse to stay in a comfort zone. It’s time to get out of it and start leading.

  • Driftwood

    Mark Durkan attended Mr McDaid’s funeral along with several SDLP representatives and they have issued several statements on the killing. It is a disgrace that it happened and I hope that those responsible are brought to justice.

    Absolutely.

    And I presume Mark Durkan & Co.attended the funerals of the 2 Sappers. As indeed the MP for Antrim should have. If not why not?

    Gregory Campbell should have attended Mr McDaid’s funeral.

    But I’d rather see justice in court than gestures.

  • Reader

    TomasPol: Saying he’s free p is just one more excuse to stay in a comfort zone.
    Should the Dail and the Cabinet have attended Douglas Hyde’s funeral service?
    I’m not religious myself, but I think that the law of the land is the only proper constraint on someone’s decision to follow the rules of their faith.

  • TomasPol

    Driftwood, I agree with you totally in respect of justice being done in the courts but if people want to put themselves up to serve the public then they must do so and that includes ‘gestures’ that show solidarity with the bereaved at times like this. In my view Mr Campbell has failed in that respect. You can correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Mark Durkan attend the funeral of Constable Carroll?

  • fin

    did anyone from the DUP attend Con. Carroll’s funeral, even to stand at the door

  • TomasPol

    Fin, as far as I’m know David Simpson did.

  • susan

    Well said, Tomas. David Simpson attended the funeral mass of Constable Stephen Carroll, and he’s Free P.

    Kevin McDaid worked hard to build bridges in his community, he put himselves on the front lines of the peace process and he died on the front line. His MP should have been there, there should have been more unionist representation there, and there should be more outcry from unionists that they weren’t there.

    And the questions raised by the family about psni conduct before, during and after the murder must be raised by loudly by politicians across the spectrum, because an effective, non-sectarian police force is the only scaffolding that peace can be built on in interface areas. It is no less an issue than decommissioning, and it never was.

    Kevin McDaid’s body carried on the shoulders of his four sons with his widow from “the other” of two once warring tribes following behind is a tragic scene worthy of Aeschylus, whether or not the twittering classes take note.

    One of the few I’ve noticed in the MSM giving the story its due is Henry MacDonald in the Guardian the last two days, who’s taken pains to look at the murder in the context of greater evidence of ongoing and growing sectarianism.

  • Driftwood

    TomasPol
    I presume he did attend Con. Carrolls funeral, and I suspect no politician from here attended the Sappers’ funerals on the mainland, because the army and families probably didn’t want politicians involved.

    Like the rally in Belfast, I’m not too sure if ‘gestures’ are seen as anything substantive.
    The squaddies (and their families) are quite suspicious of politicians anyway, of whatever hue, for very good reasons.

  • did anyone from the DUP attend Con. Carroll’s funeral, even to stand at the door

    I thought Jimmy Spratt attended Stephen Carroll’s funeral.

  • fin

    it was actually a question, not a statement, I was/am curious as someone said on here at the time that the DUP were a bit light on the grown

  • susan
  • dunreavynomore

    MyTuppenceWorth.

    I think if you look a little deeper you will see that in the cases of Robert McCartney and Paul Quinn the media interest was not because of some ‘anti republican agenda’ but rather because in both cases there were people, the families mainly, who would not let the murders of their loved ones lie. Neither were they willing to do what is normally expected and leave it to politicians to deal with, they couldn’t as in both cases one party had taken a stand with the murderers.You might like to know that the District Policing Partnership in Newry and Mourne council area questioned the ‘cost of the arrests’ in the Paul Quinn case. They were controlled by S.F, needless to say and that was a big story in the local papers but you may think it should not have been. The driver of a S.F. minister was questioned over that murder and then charged with weapons offences so maybe you are beginning to get an idea why the family of Paul Quinn have been able to keep media attention. Connor Murphy tried to keep the BBC out of a meeting he had invited them to over the same issue.
    Fair play to the McCartneys and the Quinns. I have never met the McCartneys but I know the Quinns and I know that they will fight on for Paul.
    You, MyTuppenceWorth, could perhaps consider helping the McDaids to mount an effective campaign if you live in that part of the world rather than whinging ‘what about’.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I think it’s a shame that the event went almost unnoticed but I did not even know it was taking place (nobody, for example, posted a story on Slugger about it) and, quite frankly, I’d be put off by the presence of far-out anarchist organizations, if that earlier accusation is indeed true. I’ve no problem whatsoever with trade unions, they have a consistent record of being a voice of reason and progress throughout the conflict, but I won’t lend my support to fringe organizations hijacking a dead man’s name for publicity.

    Lurig:

    Where are Sinn Fein, the SDLP & Alliance in all of this, their silence is deafening.

    Speaking personally as an Alliance supporter I have been consistent on Slugger arguing that unionists must confront their history and must stop lying about their relationship with loyalist paramilitaries. I know this is a view shared within Alliance and David Ford has made reference to these shady relationships in the past.

    I have also confronted them face to face about it (they usually change the subject, or make an excuse and back out of the discussion!) and, again, I know other Alliance activists have done the same, receiving the same response. It’s insane that we have politicians who go on the TV or radio calling for the IRA to disband and disarm, and then almost immediately “go for a pint” figuratively speaking with the local paramilitary leaders. It is also very clear to me that loyalist paramilitaries must have some degree of support within the community, otherwise people like Gregory Campbell and Jim Allister would not feel the need to judiciously avoid condemning their role in murder in the media.

    There are sections of the UUP and DUP which appear to be indistinguishable from the political wing of the UDA or UVF. The most obvious recent case where we have seen this is where photographs of a senior UDA figure putting up Jim Nicholson posters were published in a Sunday tabloid. This isn’t new, I remember UVF members in North Belfast putting up Cecil Walker posters back in 2001. By right, the “serious” media should have asked Nicholson, to his face, what these people are doing supporting his campaign, but for some reason they chose not to. The relationships between the UUP and DUP and loyalist paramilitaries is an area that goes almost completely untouched by the local media, who have never seen fit to make it, as it should be, a subject for a hard hitting documentary. I wonder where Roger Cook is when you need him ? The only conclusion I can make is, sadly, not that there is some kind of a vast unionist conspiracy comprising all the media, but becauase local journalists content themselves with reporting directly from press releases and statements without doing any real investigation.

  • DunreavyNoMorals:

    You’ll note from the posting prior to your own ( no. 25 by Susan) the list of attendees at the funeral of Const. Carroll and the absense of similar dignitaries at the funeral of McDaid. This is displaying a hierarchy of victims.

    Within the last year there was a website set up by the family of Lisa Dorrian which is an all but forgotten case. Again with the hierarchy.

    As I already mentioned, the McCarthney family were greatly assisted by the SDLP regarding cost of flights etc. Hopefully similar funds will be made avail to the McDaid family else it displays a lack of even-handedness.

    You wrote “…but rather because in both cases there were people, the families mainly, who would not let the murders of their loved ones lie.” thus implying that the other families mentioned aren’t as eager to further their cases – ridculous.

    Why not answer my earlier queston?…. What was it that Paul Quinn and Robert McCartney worked at that was such a contribution to society that they’re frequently mentioned in the media over an above other deaths in NI since. Did they work at cross-communtiy relations like McDaid ?

    You wrote “…whinging whatabout……. oh sorry…. I’m complaining about a hierarchy of victims, dupliciousness of the press, seeking party political gain & advantage thro funerals etc and it’s a little bothersome for your delicate ear – I do apologise most sincerely.

  • New Blue

    Comrade Stalin

    Your comments show where you stand on the situation of the murder of Mr. McDaid.

    Instead of trying to work to engage the people who are going to become the ‘next sectarian gang to kill an innocent’ you sit in your ivory tower and point at those who are trying to make a difference.

    Your smug attitude sickens me, you talk about pity and morals, what are you doing to make tomorrow better?

    If your party got off the fence and worked with the people who have really suffered from the last 40 years, the disenfranchised, those facing levels of social depravity worse than anything seen in western europe, those who have consistantly been sold short by their ‘leaders’ you might make a difference, instead of selling your ‘vanilla’ politics and blaming everyone else.

    If you believe in making Northern Ireland a better place for EVERY citizen, come and work with those who most need your help.

    Or you could sit on Slugger all day and talk down to people.

  • danielmoran

    mytuppenceworth… this is exactly the point i made in posting on another site. the local media including broadcasters [who are supposed to be impartial]take the ‘our wee country’ BS literally, and cover events here from the unionist point of view exclusively. you would wait a long time for bbc newsline or utv live to ask why no unionist politician turned up in coleraine on monday.
    as for the press, apart from the irish news, all the local press are the same [i give the news letter a pass, since they don’t claim impartiality. the dup only has to threaten the bbc in ormeau avenue with non cooperation and all bbc debate programmes are rendered meaningless.
    that’s the way it goes in lizzie’s last outpost.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Or you could sit on Slugger all day and talk down to people.

    Obviously I touched a nerve with that long and misdirected rant of yours. Is there something about the relationship between unionists and loyalist paramilitaries that bothers you ? Who do you think I was “talking down” to ?

  • Neil

    point at those who are trying to make a difference.

    WHAT!!!! What. The. Fuck. What exactly have the UUs done to change? Make a difference? Changed their policies and people have they?

    This is the thing which amuses me most about New Blue, he has this idea that due to the signing up together of the UUs and the Tories that they are going to change politics in Northern Ireland. This is primarily down to the party slogans that NB has clearly taken on board, but I posed the question earlier to you, what have the UUs done to prove that they’re some new anti sectarian party? Fuck all. Same old men, no change there, can’t hack a kid in a GAA top, can’t hack a muslim getting a job in the BBC, so how in the name of good holy fuck can you claim to be the party that’s gonna change anything?

    Your smug attitude sickens me

    Your smug attitude brings me out in a rage. You think you can simply say ‘we (the UCU National Front) will change politics. Everyone else is a morally reprehensible bigot, so we the mighty UCUNF will drag you kicking and screaming in to the 21st century, regardless of who you vote for’ well pardon me, but fuck you.

    Democracy doesn’t work like that, but if it did the UUs would still be just as narrow and sectarian as it ever was, cause nothing’s changed. The primary difference between the UUs and the DUP is that the DUP don’t bother with the facade you UU types have that you’re somehow above the rest of us on moral grounds. They can wallow in their sectarianism – at least they recognise it’s there. The idea that you NB can accuse anyone of smugness is a fucking total gas.

    One more time for clarity: the whole ‘new politics’ line is a slogan. It’s a party line, like decent people vote UUs, or Tiem for Change. Means absolutely fuck all, cause your essentially the same party with the same policies and people (excluding Sylvia of course, and that will be a sore loss for your little party) as it always was.

    I look forward to having a good old laugh at you when they get round to counting the votes, and the people of NI yet again piss on the UU/Third Force whatever’s campfire. Then perhpas the penny will drop that the voters choose the politics of the country, not some beaten docket party of yesteryear. Your a fantasist.

  • New Blue

    Comerade Stalin

    the very fact that you read my post and still ask questions like this shows how far you are from the people your party would like to represent.

    As for misdirected, the only misdirection is your parties claims to have an ounce of interest in changing the situation in Northern Ireland, toy politicians playing games with real lives.

  • New Blue

    Neil

    You don’t get it do you?

    Read over my posts and tell me where I am saying that the UUP / CU have all the answers.

    Those of us who are working in these communities ARE making a difference, I was working with our most excluded long before I decided to give this partnership my support.

    Neil, what I want to see is people like you, Comerade Stalin etc. pushing your parties to engage with those who are living in poverty, with no hope of changing anything. This (and my rant above) is not so much about party politics and more about social responsibility.

    I have agreed time and time again that the UUP is going to have to change dramatically if it is to engage with the people in Northern Ireland properly, but my agenda is bigger than that. We have sections of our communities living in conditions that would disgust you, people who are facing third generation unemployment, people who can’t spell aspiration, let alone have any.

    These are the key changes I want to see come out of our changing political structures, a system where those most in need are no longer ignored (or blamed as mindless biggoted thugs), a system where we engage and work our bloody hardest to help improve peoples opportunities, and outlooks.

    I honestly don’t give a toss if the UUP/CU didn’t get a single vote tomorrow, as long as there was a desire to help to fix what the political classes have created over the last forty years.

    As you say Neil, very little has changed, but it is people like you, educated, not overly biggoted, and possibly forward thinking who can start to make change.

    I enjoy having a laugh on Slugger, it’s half of the appeal of the site, but I am sick of he same old blame game mantra and the lack of desire to make a difference to the lives of the people who need it most.

    But then, if we made their lives better, who could we blame for keeping the hatred alive?

  • dunreavynomore

    MyTuppenceWorth
    “You wrote “…whinging whatabout……. oh sorry…. I’m complaining about a hierarchy of victims, dupliciousness of the press, seeking party political gain & advantage thro funerals etc and it’s a little bothersome for your delicate ear – I do apologise most sincerely” MyTuppence Worth.

    If you go back to your own post you’ll see where it is complaining that the Quinn and McCartney murders got more coverage because that coverage could be used as ‘anti republican’ rather than an attempt at analysing any ‘hierarchy of victims’. However, if you want to look at this ‘hierarchy’ of victims a good place to start would be with the immediate criminalisation of Paul Quinn by Connor Murphy and Gerry Adams in an attempt to blame him for his own murder. Not a single S.F councillor never mind an M.P stood at that mans funeral; neither did any Unionist politician so again your attempt to claim a great difference between that and the funeral of Mr Mcdaid is wrong and possibly mischievous.The Quinn family have worked very hard to highlight their son’s case and have been assisted by people like Raymond McCord and the families of other victims. They have had to doggedly pursue the media to keep their campaign alive rather than finding the media a willing ally.
    Attendance at the funerals, then, was no different in the McDaid or Quinn case except that no Sinn féin people attended Quinns; The McDaids had high powered delegations like McGuinness and Robinson in their house , The Quinns did not receive such courtesy from Stormont so what exactly are you trying to say.
    The similarities are that both Mr McDaid and young Quinn were battered mercilessly by paramilitary thugs, one gang orange and one gang green.The difference is that in this case Sinn Fein are comfortable confronting the killers while in the Quinn case they are covering up for the killers. What exactly are you trying to say about the murder of Paul Quinn by the provisional IRA and Sinn Féin’s cover up of it?
    We could have a similar conversation about the disgraceful nature of S.Fs reaction to the murder of Mr McCartney.
    You addressed me as ‘DunreavyNoMorals’ which I find quite pathetic and childish, something I have come to expect from the provie nua movement which as far as I can see are more interested in the ‘tuppence’ than anything else.

  • Carnlough

    The fact remains,this was a sectarian murder o an innocent Catholic.Such lack of condemnation or cheap political point scoring merely creates an enviroment where loyalists think its acceptable for them to attack catholics.I wonder did the local MP for the area Mr Campbell attend Kevin McDaids funeral?

  • danielmoran

    carnlough… i believe campbell found a prior appointment on monday, and was rightly lambasted by mcguiness, but that’s water off a duck’s back to him. his refusal to use the word ‘MURDER’ to describe the barbaric act carried out by his old friends, is no more than you would expect given his long track record on these matters.

  • DunreavyNoCompass

    If you care to read my postings (as opposed to assuming my opinions and political leanings) you’ll see that my ire is directed at the media and secondly politicians from FG & Labour…

    …..McDaid’s murder has been largely ignored by the media and politicos as it can’t be used to attack republicans.

    …..I’d have thought their youth would have made the ‘stories’ more appealing to the media (callous as they are).

    …..they’re frequently mentioned in the media over an above other deaths in NI since.

    …..highlighting the discrepancy in reporting on the deaths of some as opposed to others

    …..Seymour Crawford and Fergus O’Dowd of FG and Labour’s Liz McManus

    Secondly, you assume when I complain about anti-republican that I’m a Shinner (wrong), I’d be best described as an anti-FG, anti- Irish Independent, anti-Irish Times if you must know.

    You wrote …..provie nua movement which as far as I can see are more interested in the ‘tuppence’ than anything else Here’s a novel idea for you to run thro your rationale process. Just because I disagree with thte media coverage of the McDaid case as opposed to others it doesn’t mean I’m a Provo, a Shinner or a provo nua in an Armani suit. I was born and raised in the Republic of Ireland and republican ideals mean that all should be treated equally, in life and in death. My aim was to highlight the anti republican behaviour of the media in the 32 counties is a disgrace by treating the deaths of those mentioned in different manners.

    You, in your simplistic understanding, feel that I can’t hold two separate and potentially different viewpoint at one time – sorry but that’s naive of you. You’ve fallen for the ol’ divide and conquer (a basis for British dominance in the Sick Counties)!!!

  • dunreavynomore

    I’d also like to highlight the expressions of sympathy and calls for action from members of the political classes. Will Seymour Crawford and Fergus O’Dowd of FG and Labour’s Liz McManus attend a support meeting in Coleraine like they did after the murder of Paul Quinn (14Dec07) http://www.4ni.co.uk/archive.asp?Search=Search+News&criteria=crossmaglen

    Posted by MyTuppenceWorth on Jun 02, 2009 @ 03:20 PM”

    The problem you have Tuppence worth, is that the Quinn family asked all parties to attend their meetings. Sinn Féin stated publicly that they would never attend such meeting as long as certain people were there meaning that Sinn Fein wanted to control who could work with the Quinn family.Incidently, the first meeting in Cullyhanna was so well attended that the Shinnners had to eat their words and attend the one in Crossmaglen although neither the M.P, Murphy nor their M.L.As had the goodness or the grace to atend. F.G, F.F. SDLP. Alliance, Labour were all there and why not? They had been invited and it gave them a chance to see the bullying attempts to disrupt the meeting by the provos. You really need to look at who did not answer the request to attend rather than who did answer positively. Please let us know which meetings for which victims the politicians you mentioned refused to attend. Paul Quinn was criminalised by Sinn Fein, something which was taken up by the Dublin government and others. It was hard work and dogged will by the Quinn family which got Bertie Ahern and others to accept the truth but you prefer to shrug all that off as some kind of anti republican vendetta.
    You choose to bring Paul Quinn into this debate with no thought for him or his family and no understanding of the situation. Paul’s mother is from co Monaghan where her brothers and sisters are well known to Seymour Crawford but you’d prefer that he stayed away from their support meetings.
    God help the McDaids if they have to depend on people like you for support as you’d rule out 90% of the Irish people as potential supporters on the grounds that they are supporters of the wrong party.
    Eventually you will reach adulthood and rise above such childishness as using terms like’dnureavynomorals’ and ‘dunreavynocompass’and you will realise that such levity in such a serious thread shows that in reality you don’t give a tinker’s curse about the McDaids, Dorians, Quinns , McCartneys or any victims and are just using them to abuse others and have a bit of fun.

  • F.G, F.F. SDLP. Alliance, Labour were all there and why not?

    Why not indeed!!! Fair due to them. Nice to see politicos get involved and do some good work. WILL THEY TURN UP FOR ANYTHING FOR MCDAID is the point I’m making and which you can’t seem to grasp!?!? However the greater emphasis to my postings don’t relate to the politicos but the media WHICH YOU HAVEN’T ADDRESSED.

    Eventually you will reach adulthood and rise above such childishness as using terms… in reality you don’t give a tinker’s curse about the…

    I’m in my 40’s and I care as much about the Sick Counties, it’s population and victims as I could about any other area which has to endure similar useless politicos and media distortion & agenda setting.

    You don’t understand the point I’m trying to make because you obviously can’t follow reasoning (admittedly you are probably too close to the coal face related to Paul Quinn’s murder).

  • dunreavynomore

    “Why not indeed!!! Fair due to them. Nice to see politicos get involved and do some good work. WILL THEY TURN UP FOR ANYTHING FOR MCDAID is the point I’m making and which you can’t seem to grasp!?!?” my tuppence worth

    Hard to think of a more worthless point as querying whether people will attend some meeting which may or may not take place and to which they may or may not be invited but then it seems to me you may be ‘too close to the coal face’ of some other party to worry about such things.

    Of course I have addressed the media making the simple point that the Quinn family have had to fight hard for coverage of their campaign and have refused to go away. They also make their campaign relevant such as picketing M.P. Connor Murphy at his own flag ship project in Belfast when he slunk in the back door in fear of them. The fact that he then tried to keep the BBC out of the meeting he had invited them to ensured that the Quinns got the publicity. They do the work, not the media.

  • you may be ‘too close to the coal face’ of some other party to worry about such things.

    i’ve said thro’out that i’m not w the Shinners. I’ve never voted for them and I don’t think I’ve even ever met one.

    You are incapable of reasoned debate. I’m going to leave this thread as there’s no point in dealing w you for fear if I lower my ability to communicate, to match your levels, I’ll go brain-dead.

    In summary: sad.

  • dunreavynomore

    mytuppence worth

    may your god go with you.

  • Comrade Stalin

    As for misdirected, the only misdirection is your parties claims to have an ounce of interest in changing the situation in Northern Ireland, toy politicians playing games with real lives.

    I’m completely lost, I’m afraid. Who is playing games ? What exactly did I say that you are taking issue with ?

    There are a couple of fundamental facts here :
    – the role of paramilitaries in our society needs to be dealt with
    – the role of politicians and how their words and actions encourage, or discourage, paramilitarism or the fear of paramilitarism needs to be carefully accounted for
    – communities need to understand their role in using the ballot box to show their opposition to hate, fear and violence.

    The electorate Alliance appeals to is the electorate which feels that all of those above issues are important.

    It sounds like you’re a bit fucked up in the head, quite frankly, if you are arguing, as you seem to be, that forming a conclusion on these matters is somehow “talking down” to people.

    Neil, what I want to see is people like you, Comerade Stalin etc. pushing your parties to engage with those who are living in poverty, with no hope of changing anything. This (and my rant above) is not so much about party politics and more about social responsibility.

    Alliance has a range of policies concerning poverty, but I find it bizarre that you would interject on a thread that relates to the McDaid murder to complain that we’re not talking about it. It sounds like you’re very confused.

    I have agreed time and time again that the UUP is going to have to change dramatically if it is to engage with the people in Northern Ireland properly, but my agenda is bigger than that. We have sections of our communities living in conditions that would disgust you, people who are facing third generation unemployment, people who can’t spell aspiration, let alone have any.

    You’re making a lot of assumptions there. How do you know what experience I have, or do not have, of poverty and these problems ? Or Alliance for that matter; are you aware that David Ford is a social worker, for example ?

    And I might add that third generation unemployment is a legacy of the Conservative Party. I think it’s a very serious problem but I don’t think any of us have forgotten who put millions of people out of work and on the unemployment scrapheap. You’re having a laugh if you think someone like David Cameron could go to somewhere like Rathcoole or Ardoyne and tell them about how he feels their pain. The Conservatives don’t care about poor people and life in working class communities (which has ups as well as downs). They don’t understand them, they’re the party of the aristocracy.

    These are the key changes I want to see come out of our changing political structures, a system where those most in need are no longer ignored (or blamed as mindless biggoted thugs),

    I call a spade a spade, and when a bunch of bloodthirsty bigots beat a man to death over his perceived religious identity, that is sectarian murder. Not some sort of load of crap where the murderers are victims of society/poverty/etc which is where it sounds like you’re going.

    a system where we engage and work our bloody hardest to help improve peoples opportunities, and outlooks.

    What’s the point in doing that if the politicians that we elect to represent us are going on TV and attempting to deflect blame away from murderers ?

    I enjoy having a laugh on Slugger, it’s half of the appeal of the site, but I am sick of he same old blame game mantra and the lack of desire to make a difference to the lives of the people who need it most.

    Blame game mantra ? You mean that if someone is beaten to death, we shouldn’t talk about who did it and whether or not they should be punished ?? We shouldn’t talk about politicians who provide bad leadership ?