125 years of the GAA

This year sees the 125th anniversary of the founding of the GAA and there will be a full programme of events to mark the occasion.

Local clubs will be having their main celebrations Sunday week (10th May) with Lá na gClub activities:

“On this day we would like every GAA club in the world to use their premises for the enjoyment of their members in a non-competitive and inclusive way”

My own club, Naomh Séamas Aldergrove has a full day planned.

For those that have joined me for new experiences in the past this would be a perfect opportunity to experience what the GAA is about for it’s members. So if any Slugger readers want to get along on the day add a comment or drop a line- I’m sure we can sort you out.

  • Gael gan Náire

    RG,

    Good points.

  • wise up, move on or bugger off

    Someone please put this “discussion” out of its misery. I’ve rarely seen such petty, ill-informed comments. What the hell has the meaning of the term ‘Gael’ or whether or not some spiteful lunatic thinks that the IRFU and Irish Presbyterian Churches are inclusive got to do with a weekend celebrating 125 years of CLG?

  • Driftwood

    Mark
    Will you be inviting everyone from RAF Aldergrove to your day out? Maybe your club could get a flight?
    http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafaldergrove/

  • Driftwood
  • Seimi

    Do 230 Sqn have a CLG team Driftwood? Wouldn’t really be fair to play them if they don’t 🙂

  • willowfield

    ROSLEA

    So you’re labelling many GAA members as terrorist supporters, Thats a very serious and dangerous accusation and unless you have evidence of that,id withdraw that remark.

    It doesn’t seem unreasonable to deduce that if a GAA team or club honours a terrorist, then many of the members of that club are likely to be terrorist supporters.

    Id like to hear how “many members” supported the Troubles murderers.

    Impossible to quantify. Given the large numbers of votes from within the nationalist community for Provisional SF, though, it is likely to be not inconsiderable.

    RG CUAN

    As has been pointed out above, Gaels are an ethnic-linguistic grouping of which I am one. It has nothing to do with race or stock and to suggest so illustrates a great misunderstanding and is indeed completely ridiculous, especially in 2009.

    As I’ve said, twice already I believe, whether it is a racial, quasi-racial, or “ethnic-linguistic” term doesn’t really matter. It is still obnoxious to equate being an Irish person with being a Gael.

    Also, the first reference to “Gael” in this thread was a label applied to GAA members: not to an “ethnic-linguistic grouping”.

    The term Irish is of course different and encompasses all who relate to this island, be they Gael or other.

    Thank you. If you accept this, then you should join me in condemning the obnoxious conflation of the term Irish and Gaelic as promoted by Gael gan Nire and other contributors here.

  • RosleaNaEireann

    Willowfield

    “It doesn’t seem unreasonable to deduce that if a GAA team or club honours a terrorist, then many of the members of that club are likely to be terrorist supporters”

    You said in an earlier post many GAA members supported those who murdered during the troubles(meaning the IRA etc)
    Now you’ve changed that to Many Members of clubs who honour terrorists.
    Ive already shown you that only a tiny percentage of clubs in Northern Ireland have honoured terrorists,so Therefore that number when in the context of overall membership would be small,Not the “MANY” as you put it in an earlier post.
    Which is it??

  • willowfield

    Roslea

    You said in an earlier post many GAA members supported those who murdered during the troubles(meaning the IRA etc)

    I did indeed.

    Now you’ve changed that to Many Members of clubs who honour terrorists.

    Well that still means many members, doesn’t it? Although I’ve also suggested it was many more than that, given the large number of votes for Provisional SF. I think I also referred to the Antrim Board and its letting of Casement Park for terrorist commemorations.

    Ive already shown you that only a tiny percentage of clubs in Northern Ireland have honoured terrorists,so Therefore that number when in the context of overall membership would be small,Not the “MANY” as you put it in an earlier post.Which is it??

    See above.

    It’s also worth pointing out that none of the pro-terror clubs have been sanctioned by the GAA. Indeed the Kevin Lynch club recently had a clubhouse opened by none other than the president of the GAA – giving his official blessing. It seems, therefore, that the GAA as a whole is content to tolerate, and even support, the pro-terror clubs.

  • RG Cuan

    WILLOWFIELD

    The vast majority of Irish speakers do not conflate ‘Gael’ and ‘Irish’. We are very aware of the difference. As you can see above Gael Gan Náire indeed agrees with my previous points.

    I am Irish as I was born on this island. I am a Gael as that is my cultural and linguistic background and affinity.

  • RosleaNaEireann

    “Well that still means many members, doesn’t it? Although I’ve also suggested it was many more than that, given the large number of votes for Provisional SF. I think I also referred to the Antrim Board and its letting of Casement Park for terrorist commemorations”

    4/5 clubs at most out of 5 or 600,Thats not many members in relation to total membership in Northern Ireland.A few hundred out of a couple of hundred thousand.
    Not that MANY afterall.

    What does the large amount of votes Sinn Fein get or have gotten have to do with the GAA?
    The topic is the GAA not Nationalist voting patterns.

    As for the Casement Park rally,while a despicable decision to allow it to occur,
    The GAA were not involved in that event in any official capacity,
    The GAA allow the use of their grounds for all sorts of Non GAA activities, throughout the island.

    “It’s also worth pointing out that none of the pro-terror clubs have been sanctioned by the GAA. Indeed the Kevin Lynch club recently had a clubhouse opened by none other than the president of the GAA – giving his official blessing. It seems, therefore, that the GAA as a whole is content to tolerate, and even support, the pro-terror clubs.”

    Why would these clubs be sanctioned?,
    From my knowledge Not one complaint has ever arisen about either the naming of this particular club or its activities(or are you trying to imply this clubs is involved in some illegal activities?)
    The Dungiven Hurling club opted to name their club and pitch after a talented former member who died much too soon,Thats their perogitive,and while it might be distasteful to Unionists within the area,There werent exactly many complaints about it.

  • Mark McGregor

    I’ll chip in a wee thought but won’t be getting involved in the debate.

    The GAA is meant to have a political and cultural aspect alongside the sporting. It’s there in black and white in the guide all members sign up to.

    However, my personal experience is this aspect of being a ‘Gael’ is not recognised by the vast majority of the membership or officials and has been at best supported in a tokenistic manner or at worst just plain ignored.

    For most ‘Gaels’ the focus is purely sporting. That isn’t what it’s meant to be about, well not solely.

    I stand by what I commit to through my membership and I understand it’s not something any Unionist could endorse. Making the GAA open to Unionism (not protestants) would involve destroying the very foundations of the organisation:

    The Gaelic Athletic Association today is an organisation which reaches into every corner of the land and has its roots in every Irish parish.
    Throughout the Country, legions of voluntary workers willingly make sacrifices to promote its ideals and carry its daily burdens. Why does the Association receive this unselfish support? Those who play its games, those who organise its activities andthose who control its destinies see in the G.A.A. a means of consolidating our Irish identity. The games to them are more than games – they have a national significance – and the promotion of native pastimes becomes a part of the full national ideal, which envisages the speaking of our own language, music and dances. The primary purpose of the G.A.A. is the organisation of native pastimes and the promotion of athletic fitness as a means to create a disciplined, self-reliant, national-minded manhood. The overall result is the expression of a people’s preference for native ways as opposed to imported ones.
    Since she has no control over all the national territory, Ireland’s claim to nationhood is impaired. It would be still more impaired if
    she were to lose her language, if she failed to provide a decent livelihood for her people at home, or if she were to forsake her own games and customs in favour of the games and customs of another nation. If pride in the attributes of nationhood dies, something good and distinctive in our race dies with it. Each national quality that is lost makes us so much poorer as a Nation. Today, the native games take on a new significance when it is realised that they have been a part, and still are a part, of the Nation’s desire to live her own life, to govern her own affairs.

  • Skintown Lad

    “Why would these clubs be sanctioned?,
    From my knowledge Not one complaint has ever arisen about either the naming of this particular club or its activities(or are you trying to imply this clubs is involved in some illegal activities?)
    The Dungiven Hurling club opted to name their club and pitch after a talented former member who died much too soon,Thats their perogitive,and while it might be distasteful to Unionists within the area,There werent exactly many complaints about it.”

    It is exactly BECAUSE there weren’t many complaints from the rank and file GAA members that Unionists view the GAA with suspicion. You can’t on the one hand say that the GAA is trying to be inclusive and then, on the other, provide an example where they’ve acted entirely contrary to that aim.

  • willowfield

    RG CUAN

    The vast majority of Irish speakers do not conflate ‘Gael’ and ‘Irish’. We are very aware of the difference.

    I should hope not, and that is what I would have thought. Perhaps you should join me in condemning Gael gan Naire, then?

    As you can see above Gael Gan Náire indeed agrees with my previous points.

    What previous points? He is the one claiming that “Gael” means “Irish person”. You are now joining with me in disagreeing with such an obnoxious definition.

    I am Irish as I was born on this island. I am a Gael as that is my cultural and linguistic background and affinity.

    And that’s how it should be.

    ROSLEA

    What does the large amount of votes Sinn Fein get or have gotten have to do with the GAA?

    The GAA is an exclusively nationalist organisation. Its members are drawn from the nationalist community. It therefore follows that, unless GAA membership is radically more liberal than the nationalist electorate as a whole (the opposite is more likely to be true), that a significant proportion of GAA members have been and are Provisional SF supporters.

    As for the Casement Park rally,while a despicable decision to allow it to occur,
    The GAA were not involved in that event in any official capacity,The GAA allow the use of their grounds for all sorts of Non GAA activities, throughout the island.

    First, the most recent rally was not the first. Second, whether or not the GAA took part in an official capacity is irrelevant: the GAA let the ground out for the purposes of terrorist glorification. I’m glad you agree that the decisions were despicable, but they indicate a support for terrorism among the decision-makers of the Antrim Board, and these decision-makers are elected by the members of the Antrim GAA.

    Why would these clubs be sanctioned?,

    For glorifying terrorism!

    From my knowledge Not one complaint has ever arisen about either the naming of this particular club or its activities(or are you trying to imply this clubs is involved in some illegal activities?)

    Well, the fact that no complaint has arisen is further indication of the tolerance (at best) and support (at worst) for terrorism within the GAA.

    MARK McGREGOR

    I stand by what I commit to through my membership and I understand it’s not something any Unionist could endorse.

    Thank you for backing up what I have said. I wonder whether you will come under attack from Roslea and others.

    I would ask, though, WHY is this political baggage deemed to be necessary.

  • Ger

    I say fair play to the GAA. They get their jerseys from a factory in Tyrone.

    The soccer federations, the IFA(NI), and the FAI(RoI) both get their jerseys from China.

    That is the difference. The GAA is doing something for the community. The others are paying themselves salaries, and pocketting the money. The FAI in particular are rotten with corruption.

  • Mark McGregor

    Willowfield,

    For many Gaels, i’d suggest most, their membership is ‘a la carte’. They ignore or find the political and cultural aspects inconvenient or unnessecary – I had to fight the bulk of my own club over them acting in a manner that was going to lead to the closure of an Irish language school.

    Unfortunately for most members the political aspect of membership isn’t considered. However, it is very much what they sign up to and what is expressed by some clubs in their choice of name, events they hold and people they remember through their competitions.

    I’m not into denying the GAA is meant to be a nationalist ethos organisation at least and probably a republican organisation at heart. Its there in the guide.

    As can be seen here most members try to bury that aspect of what they are part of. As a result in reality the guide isn’t adhered to by many individuals and not the group as a whole. So while many of the comments here aren’t reflective of the supposed principles they are probably reflective of the actual ethos of the majority.

    Maybe it’s time to change the code to reflect that or insist people abide by their commitments.

    Until then I’ll have my little infrequent battles to force some to stand by the political aspect. others can deny it all they want.

  • picador

    What does the GAA actually do promote the Irish language?

  • willowfield

    GER

    That is the difference. The GAA is doing something for the community. The others are paying themselves salaries, and pocketting the money. The FAI in particular are rotten with corruption.

    I think that is unfair. At grassroots level, football is very important and beneficial to the community.

    In NI, especially, football is the only major cross-community sport, which is something for which it should be given credit.

    MARK McGREGOR

    Unfortunately for most members the political aspect of membership isn’t considered. However, it is very much what they sign up to and what is expressed by some clubs in their choice of name, events they hold and people they remember through their competitions.

    I’d say they (perhaps unconsciously) are more than comfortable with the political aspects. You can’t join a club named after, say, Patrick Pearse, without recognising the political message being given out.

    I’m not into denying the GAA is meant to be a nationalist ethos organisation at least and probably a republican organisation at heart. Its there in the guide.

    Thank you. Again, I wonder if you will come under attack, or are nationalists allowed to make these observations, but unionists are not?

    Maybe it’s time to change the code to reflect that or insist people abide by their commitments.

    I think the former would be the most welcoming move, although at least the latter would be honest.

    Until then I’ll have my little infrequent battles to force some to stand by the political aspect. others can deny it all they want.

    I ask again: why do you think this political aspect is necessary? Why can it not just be a sports organisation? Why exclude unionists?

  • Tír Eoghain abú

    [i]They get their jerseys from a factory in Tyrone.[/i]

    Strabane would be completely fucked without O’Neills

    [i]What does the GAA actually do to promote the Irish language?[/i]

    Look up Scór you dumbass matador wannabe

  • Gael gan Náire

    RG,

    The point being of course that in Irish two words, Gael and Éireannach translate into English as Irish. Neither of which have any racial conoctation.

    One as you correctly state is a cultural affinity and the other, in a modern sense, a nationality, previously normally a term of geographical belonging.

    Prior to widespread fluency in English, which the word ‘Irish’ is a word thereof, the majority of people in the Island of Ireland people simply refered to themselves as Gaeil or alternatively muintir na hÉireann / people of Ireland.

    The majority of people in Ireland today identify themselves as Irish. Two hundred years ago this was not the case. Gaeil being the normal description.

    The only conclusion one can draw from this is that the term Gaeil has been translated as Irish.

    As only one person to my knowledge describes Gaeil as a separate race I say that there is nothing racial about it.

    Clearly, many other people of various ‘ethnic and cultural origins’ describe themselves as Irish as they are perfectly entitled to, that does not however change the simple historical linguistic fact, which must stand on that basis, rather than be changed to suit the cultural and political sensitivities of the current age.

    I am sure that the last thing in post-famine Ireland, as people fled into the English language and being ‘Irish’ that the sensitivities of unionists in 2009 as to how people chose to translate a word into English.

    Clearly, not every Irish person is a Gael nor descendent of a Gael, though when Irish speakers appropriate the term that is equally resented, but equally, as you say, our slua, treabh go beyond Ireland to Scotland, Man and beyond.

    Do we as Ulster Gaeil gan Náire not view our highland brothers as much our countrymen as Munster men to the South, and the manx man as much our countryman as the biggest Seoinín in BÁC 4?

  • Gael gan Náire

    Pic,

    “What does the GAA actually do promote the Irish language? ”

    You have to take each club individually.

    It is like Hurling, some clubs actively go againist it.

    I think they should be severely repremanded.

  • RosleaNaEireann

    Willowfield

    “The GAA is an exclusively nationalist organisation. Its members are drawn from the nationalist community. It therefore follows that, unless GAA membership is radically more liberal than the nationalist electorate as a whole (the opposite is more likely to be true), that a significant proportion of GAA members have been and are Provisional SF supporters.”

    The GAA is an organisation which draws its members from many different communities and nationalities from around the world”.
    Ive asked you before is it a Polish/Brazilian/American Nationalist organisation? Its a sporting organisation of irish origins played mostly by irish people but also by people of different nationalities in Ireland and abroad. Your Unionist fantasies about the GAA are typical and not suprising.

    “The Opposite is likely true” Once again hinting that the Majority of GAA members up here are terrorist supporters. Sweeping generalisations like this is exactly what you were crying about earlier on this thread about your beloved Northern Ireland fans,yet you’re doping exactly the same thing.

    “For glorifying terrorism!”

    Thats a very serious accusation
    You should report them to the RUC sorry PSNI and British Government then,if they are glorifying terrorism. Im sure you could force the club to change its name and have members arrested.
    Tell me how you get on in your campaign.

    “Well, the fact that no complaint has arisen is further indication of the tolerance (at best) and support (at worst) for terrorism within the GAA”

    Yeh imagine naming a club after a promising young member who had great success in his few years at a club,captaining his county in an All Ireland Final.
    But you’re right that has nothing to do with it.
    We in the GAA dont even care about or discuss sport.
    Its merely just a front for IRA activities, and all that physical training is just physical training to survive being on the run.

    The sad thing is Unionists like yourself actually believe the last 5 lines of my post to be true.

    “Thank you for backing up what I have said. I wonder whether you will come under attack from Roslea and others”

    Why would Mark come under attack from anyone?

  • Mark McGregor

    Picador,

    My own club’s contribution has been to send out a phonetic copy of Amhrán na bhFiann. Still isn’t enough to cancel out them objecting to planning permission for the Irish School that could have resulted in its closure.

    Willowfield,

    I ask again: why do you think this political aspect is necessary?

    It’s not ‘neccessary’ – it is part of the supposed ethos. The GAA is not meant to be purely sporting it was set up as a sporting, cultural and poltical organisation and is meant to marry those aspects.

    The problem on this thread is the increasing numbers of members not committed to the stated aims/ethos or in denial.

  • picador

    Or named and shamed perhaps?

    Glancing at some club and county websites there is not much gaeilge to be seen other than the odd cúpla focal.

    Ironic.

    Now, who’s going to start up the list?

  • Tír Eoghain abú

    Address Scór, matador boy

  • picador

    County Antrim website a case in point. Looks very professional but seems to be all in English.

  • RG Cuan

    GAEL GAN NÁIRE, WILLOWFIELD ET AL.

    There is a clear misunderstanding on this issue: One side is describing the translation of ‘Gael’ into English, the other is focusing on what the term ‘Irish’ encompasses in the 21st century. ‘Gael’ may mean ‘Irish’ but ‘Irish’ also includes much more.

    Neither of you believe Gaels are a separate race and both of you agree you don’t have to be a Gael to be Irish.

    There’s no argument.

    PICADOR

    What does the GAA actually do promote the Irish language?

    Almost nothing. The Scór hardly promotes the language in any serious way.

  • picador

    I’m a wounder not a killer, bogman. 🙂

  • Tír Eoghain abú

    Here, I’ll make it easy for you: http://www.gaa.ie/page/scor.html

    Have a good look you silly wannabe assassinator of bovinae

  • willowfield

    ROSLEA

    Ive asked you before is it a Polish/Brazilian/American Nationalist organisation?

    In answer to your facetious question: it is an Irish nationalist organisation.

    Its a sporting organisation of irish origins played mostly by irish people but also by people of different nationalities in Ireland and abroad. Your Unionist fantasies about the GAA are typical and not suprising.

    It is not a “fantasy”, unionist or otherwise, to observe that the GAA is an Irish nationalist sport. Is Mark McGregor a unionist? Is he a fantasist?

    Once again hinting that the Majority of GAA members up here are terrorist supporters.

    It’s not at all. It’s a suggestion that GAA members are likely to be less politically liberal than nationalists generally.

    Sweeping generalisations like this is exactly what you were crying about earlier on this thread about your beloved Northern Ireland fans,yet you’re doping exactly the same thing.

    I’m not.

    Thats a very serious accusation

    It’s a very serious thing to do.

    Yeh imagine naming a club after a promising young member who had great success in his few years at a club,captaining his county in an All Ireland Final. But you’re right that has nothing to do with it.

    You’re being completely disingenuous. Don’t take people for fools by thinking they’ll believe that Kevin Lynch’s INLA terrorism and hunger-striking was not why he was honoured by the eponymous club.

    Why would Mark come under attack from anyone?

    Consistency. He is saying what I have said, and you have attacked me.

    MARK McGREGOR

    It’s not ‘neccessary’ – it is part of the supposed ethos. The GAA is not meant to be purely sporting it was set up as a sporting, cultural and poltical organisation and is meant to marry those aspects.

    I know, but why is it necessary, or desirable, for it to continue to be political today?

  • wise up, move on or bugger off

    I don’t understand why you people are engaging this man. He’s an intransigent liar

  • picador

    I had a look, you swamp-dwelling fuckwit. It’s in English as well!

  • willowfield

    R G CUAN

    We’ve become sidetracked. The issue about the term Gael arose from my objection to someone using the term to describe GAA members: implying as it does some kind of quasi-racial aspect of GAA membership.

    GAEL then weighed in to say that Gael actually means Irish person.

    I objected to both uses of the term. And still do.

  • willowfield

    Whoever is throwing around accusations about contributors being liars – either provide some evidence, or retract the accusation.

  • picador

    Looks like you won’t be happy until the gael has been exterminated, willowfield.

  • Tír Eoghain abú

    Oooh I’ve touched a raw nerve! Someone wants to kill bulls whn tehy grow up but they can’t 🙁 boo hoo. Why don’t you go get lost around an abattoir you little prick? Calling me a bogman from your 5th floor Malone Road studioette. Fucking wannabe bourgeois scum

  • RosleaNaEireann

    Mark

    “It’s not ‘neccessary’ – it is part of the supposed ethos. The GAA is not meant to be purely sporting it was set up as a sporting, cultural and poltical organisation and is meant to marry those aspects.

    id disagree with you there Mark in that it was set up as a Sporting and Cultural organisation to resurrect the native pastimes.
    Yet Politics have came into play at certain times throughout the GAA history, from the IRB controlling certain clubs, To the stupid proclamation at one of the GAA congresses in 70/80’s proclaiming support for the struggle.

    The GAA for me, yourself and most others is a Sporting and Cultural organisation.
    Its not a political organisation in my opinion and never has been,
    The best way to put it would be its a sporting organisation which has been politicised at times by unhelpful actions by Republican politicans and groups.

  • picador

    You are right on one thing though, willowfield.

    Most of that GAA stuff – cited by Mark – is a throwback to racial theories which were prevalent in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries and has since been largely discredited. It really should be dispensed with in this day and age but hey, the GAA is not renowned for being progressive.

  • picador

    Wind you neck in bogman, or I will come down and kneecap all your bulls. Then I will get two bricks and … oh, never mind.

  • Skintown Lad

    could the GAA members of this thread please agree as to what the hell their organisation is supposed to be all about and then come back and explain it to us poor unionists. from where we’re standing it seems confused at best.

    …thread suspended…

  • RG Cuan

    WILLOWFIELD

    The whole thread has become sidetracked, especially the discussion on the term ‘Gael’ etc.

    I don’t really care much about people calling members of the GAA ‘Gaels’, but since we all agree – including you – that Gaels are not a separate race, then this usage is hardly ‘quasi-racial’. It’s cultural.

    The issue about ‘Gael’ meaning ‘Irish’ has been clarified above. It can mean that in one sense but again, we all agree, that one does not have to be a Gael to be Irish and that Irish is a broader term that includes everybody on this island, if they wish to describe themselves as such.

    There’s no point in us starting the argument cycle again.

    TÍR EOGHAIN ABÚ

    Ní dhéanann údaráis CLG mórán ar son na Gaeilge. Tá sé faoi bhaill na heagraíochta sin a athrú ar ndóigh.

    The GAA does little for the Irish speaking population, nor for the language itself. It is, of course, up to Irish speaking members of the organisation to help them change that, if they wish.

  • RosleaNaEireann

    Willowfield

    “In answer to your facetious question: it is an Irish nationalist organisation.”

    For it to be an Irish Nationalist organisation,
    All its members would have to be Irish Nationalist wouldnt they?

    Now i dont know the political opinions on the young African kids playing for Cumann Na Bunscoil teams in Dublin,or the Austrailian Rules players who play GAA alongside their own sport in Austrailia But if you say they are all Irish Nationalists,il have to take your word for it.

    “It is not a “fantasy”, unionist or otherwise, to observe that the GAA is an Irish nationalist sport. Is Mark McGregor a unionist? Is he a fantasist?”

    See my previous point,
    No Mark isnt a Unionist nor a fantasist,but i would disagree with him in relation to the description of the GAA as an Irish Nationalist sport.

    “It’s not at all. It’s a suggestion that GAA members are likely to be less politically liberal than nationalists generally.”

    What are the bases for such a suggestion? Where is your proof for such a statement?
    You in reality have nothing to back such a statement up.

    “You’re being completely disingenuous. Don’t take people for fools by thinking they’ll believe that Kevin Lynch’s INLA terrorism and hunger-striking was not why he was honoured by the eponymous club.”

    Id be lying if i said his status within the Dungiven area as a Hunger Striker had nothing to do with it.It probably did to some of the club members who held Republican views.
    Yet i doubt(of course i have no basis for this)If he hadnt to have been such a talented Hurler/prominent club member ,that they would have named The Club/Grounds after him.

    “Consistency. He is saying what I have said, and you have attacked me”

    First of all i havent attacked you,
    I disagree with what you have labelled the GAA as in this thread,and have fought my side without aiming any insults at you.
    I also disagree with what Mark posted and replied to him aswell.

  • wise up, move on or bugger off

    pic, put down the café latte and observe

    http://www.gaa.ie/files/pdf/inside__gaeilge_sa_chlub.pdf

  • picador

    A lot of recommendations there. My county’s website appears to be all in English though.

    BTW I drink sangría made with Buckfast.

  • RG Cuan

    WISE UP SRL…

    Great guidelines, unfortunately they aren’t always adhered to. As I mentioned above, it’s up to Irish speakers within CLG/GAA to change that.

  • willowfield

    PICADOR

    Looks like you won’t be happy until the Protestants have all been exterminated.

    ROSLEA

    The GAA for me, yourself and most others is a Sporting and Cultural organisation. Its not a political organisation in my opinion and never has been,The best way to put it would be its a sporting organisation which has been politicised at times by unhelpful actions by Republican politicans and groups.

    How then do you explain its current politicisation: nationalist emblems and anthem; numerous clubs, trophies, grounds named after nationalists, ban on perceived British sports on GAA property, tolerance of pro-nationalist-terrorist clubs?

    How would you perceive a sport which:

    – although all-Ireland, required all its member clubs to fly the Union Flag throughout the whole island, and play God Save the Queen
    – had as its main competition, the Fred Crawford Cup
    – had numerous clubs named after unionists and ORange heroes, e.g. Edward Carsons, William of Orange, Schombergs
    – had numerous grounds named after unionists, such as James Craig Park
    – banned perceived Irish nationalist sports from its grounds
    – allowed its grounds to be used for loyalist prisoner rallies
    – tolerated clubs named in honour of Jonny Adair and others

    Would you consider such an organisation to be non-political?

  • Gael gan Náire

    RG,

    Would you agree with me if I say that even the strongest Irish language organisations, including the youth based one, fear Cumann Luthchleas ay a national level?

    I agree with your point, but I feel that Irish speakers are unwilling to confront the Cumann Luthchleas Gael.

    Of course the place to do the work is locally.

    I hear CLG Mhicí Uí Bhaing, an tSruthán Milis will be starting a bit of training in the summer, all Irish on the park obviously!

  • Gael gan Náire

    Another thing, what do the CLG do to promote Cluiche Corr / rounders in Ulster.

    Faic!

  • willowfield

    PICADOR

    You are right on one thing though, willowfield. Most of that GAA stuff – cited by Mark – is a throwback to racial theories which were prevalent in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries and has since been largely discredited. It really should be dispensed with in this day and age but hey, the GAA is not renowned for being progressive.

    Thank you.

    R G CUAN

    I don’t really care much about people calling members of the GAA ‘Gaels’, but since we all agree – including you – that Gaels are not a separate race, then this usage is hardly ‘quasi-racial’. It’s cultural.

    It was considered racial by the GAA at the time of the founding of the GAA. But I said quasi-racial: not racial.

    The issue about ‘Gael’ meaning ‘Irish’ has been clarified above. It can mean that in one sense but again, we all agree, that one does not have to be a Gael to be Irish and that Irish is a broader term that includes everybody on this island, if they wish to describe themselves as such.

    If Gael means Irish, then it is a quasi-racial definition of Irishness. I reject such a definition. So should you.

    ROSLEA

    For it to be an Irish Nationalist organisation,
    All its members would have to be Irish Nationalist wouldnt they?

    One would expect them at least to be comfortable or tolerant of Irish nationalism.

    No Mark isnt a Unionist nor a fantasist,but i would disagree with him in relation to the description of the GAA as an Irish Nationalist sport.

    You are in denial.

    What are the bases for such a suggestion?

    My own observations and experiences.

    Where is your proof for such a statement?

    I have none. It is merely my opinion.

    I also disagree with what Mark posted and replied to him aswell.

    At least you are consistent.

  • iain

    Gael means more that just Irish. its a cultural identity. Highlanders in Scotland see themselves as Gaels too. indeed, they would call the highlands the Gaelteach. I guess Manx people might also be gaels.

  • willowfield

    Indeed, which is why it is ludicrous to say that Gael means Irish.

  • RG Cuan

    GAEL GAN NÁIRE

    Tá mé leat a mhac, cha raibh mé amuigh ag camánacht le fada an lá!

    WILLOWFIELD

    As I’ve said before, a Gael is anybody who wants to describe themselves as such, Irish, Scottish, Manx and even Gaelic-speaking camels from Outer Mongolia.

    I don’t see much point in repeating what’s already been said as we all agree that not all Irish people are Gaels, and not all Gaels are Irish.

    Oíche mhaith.

  • picador

    Willowfield,

    Looks like you won’t be happy until the Protestants have all been exterminated.

    That would involve killing a number of close relations so I’ll pass on it.

    You do seem to find however the continued existence of the gael as some kind of existential threat to yourself.

  • Gael gan Náire

    I trust everyone has looked up the word Gael in their FGB / Ó Dónaill!

    Oíche Mhaith

  • Devil Eire

    Somebody please do Slugger a favour and draw Willowfield an Euler diagram showing the relationship between the terms ‘Gael’ and ‘Irish’.

  • Big Dave

    I stand by what I commit to through my membership and I understand it’s not something any Unionist could endorse. Making the GAA open to Unionism (not protestants) would involve destroying the very foundations of the organisation:

    Mark McGregor, I salute you. As someone said earlier, the ethos of the GAA is very antithesis to that of Unionism.

    And yet again, we hear about Kevin Lynch and the Martin & Gerard Harte stuff and about glorifying terrorism.

    Ballix.

    I listen to the Unionist “Black and White” view on morality which comes from dominating a state for 3/4 of a century at the expense of their neighbours. Jesus, given the talk of some, you would nearly think the GAA were to blame for the various insurgencies in the 6 counties since its formation.

    Tell me this. Is it that difficult to comprehend that

    a. before a Lynch or a Harte got involved in politics they were integral parts of the communities from where they came?

    or

    b. That said communities see Lynch and/or Harte for what they contributed to them and NOT what they did subsequently?

    Maybe it is. But looking back, how justified was Carson’s antics pre-partition? Again, let Unionism look on the Nationalist people with disdain for the choices they made post partition, ignoring the choices their ancestors made before them. It’s easy to take the moral high ground when someone has done the dirty work for you. Also, when you consider the various militant wings of armed Unionism (whether considered legitimate and illegitimate then and now), how dare anyone say what’s right and what’s wrong!

    Anyway, The GAA has nothing to apologise for – I’m not ashamed of my Nationalism, neither should the Ulster Council….

  • Gael gan Náire
  • RG Cuan

    Aye, I have, very good.

    Cad é mar a tháinig tú air sin? Shíl mé nach raibh mo dhuine ag dul an suíomh a fhógairt go dtí an tseachtain seo chugainn!

  • willowfield

    R G CUAN

    As I’ve said before, a Gael is anybody who wants to describe themselves as such, Irish, Scottish, Manx and even Gaelic-speaking camels from Outer Mongolia.

    Yes, I know. But Gael Gain Naire thinks Gael means Irish.

    I don’t see much point in repeating what’s already been said as we all agree that not all Irish people are Gaels, and not all Gaels are Irish.

    We don’t. Gael Gan Naire thinks Gael means Irish.

    PICADOR

    You do seem to find however the continued existence of the gael as some kind of existential threat to yourself.

    I don’t.

    You seem to find the continued existence of the Jew as some kind of existential threat to yourself.

    BIG DAVE

    But looking back, how justified was Carson’s antics pre-partition?

    Equally as justified as Redmond’s.

    Again, let Unionism look on the Nationalist people with disdain for the choices they made post partition, ignoring the choices their ancestors made before them. It’s easy to take the moral high ground when someone has done the dirty work for you. Also, when you consider the various militant wings of armed Unionism (whether considered legitimate and illegitimate then and now), how dare anyone say what’s right and what’s wrong!

    What a preposterous, disingenuous way to seek to justify nationalist terrorism. I’m sorry, but murder is WRONG, no matter who commits it and no matter who is the victim. It’s got nothing to do with unionism or nationalism.

    Anyway, The GAA has nothing to apologise for – I’m not ashamed of my Nationalism, neither should the Ulster Council….

    Nationalism is one thing, but I think it ought to apologise for its tolerance of pro-terrorist clubs.

  • UFB

    Willow lastworditis alert.

  • Skintown Lad

    Big Dave, you’re missing the point. Basically this thread was about how the GAA are said to be trying to be inclusive and non-political. Unionists point out that this is not really the case, citing a number of examples. You and Mark McGregor appear to agree with Unionists that it is a nationalist organisation. None of that is a question of morality, it is a question of knowing where we stand. The GAA should not pretend to be something it’s not. The most obvious example is the fact that Kevin Lynch’s club so named themselves. It was perhaps, as you say, because he was a talented former member who died in tragic circumstances. But regardless of main reason, surely they knew that Unionists would not feel particularly welcome at a club with this name, with the obvious symbolism of what he stood for. That’s all fine and dandy, unionists do not have to join if they don’t want to, but don’t make out like Unionists are being unresaonable when they question the inclusivity that you yourself have questioned.