Getting it tight(s)

This one is a bit bizarre. The main evidence presented against several men accused of INLA membership seems to be possession of tights and stockings with intent (knives were found nearby)

She said the court would hear that Mr Dunne and Mr Kelleher were arrested in premises in Cork and Mr Dunne was found with a pair of tights while Mr Kelleher had a nylon stocking, a pair of gloves and a black refuse sack.

A coalshed was also searched and a black-handled knife, duct tape, cable ties and two other black-handled knives were found.

I should also note they were ‘seen at meetings’

Meetings, women’s hosiery and proximity to outbuildings……cast iron

  • joeCanuck

    It has been noted before that once women gave up stockings in favour of tights that more criminals were found going around in pairs.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Come now, Mark — while it is all circumstantial evidence, the collection, taken as a whole (assuming arguendo that there is sufficient linking evidence to tie it into a whole) is fairly strong circumstantial evidence that these two weren’t a couple of choir-boys.

    I suppose you could argue they were kinky cross-dressers, but there’d need to a few more articles of clothing to make that one wash. Another stocking and a garter-belt, at least.

  • Dave

    Mark, wasn’t it the case that all that was required to secure a conviction for membership of a subversive organization under the Offences Against the State Act was the ‘evidence’ of a Garda Chief Superintendent to the effect that he or she has a good faith belief that the accused is a member? When did that change or why isn’t this case progressed on that line?

  • Rory Carr

    Well at least they have the opportunity to claim in their defence that they merely enjoyed a harmless bit of transvestite bondage every now and then. The knives clearly were intended first to add a little added frisson of titillation and later to cut their bonds when the game playing was over as their mammy called them in for their tea.

  • fin

    membership of Cumann na nBan possibly

  • picador

    Hasn’t one of them pleaded guilty?

    As for Mr McGarrigle, his adherence to the ‘repubican socialist cause’ is admirable given that some of his erstwhile comrades put him in a wheelchair for life.

    What was it they were planning? A little tiger kidnapping. For the ’cause’ of course.

    Boo hoo hoo in any case.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mark,

    You are a great man for defending and championing the rights of individuals – particulalry when those individuals have political objectives not dissimilar to your own – but you have to ask yourself at what point you would support policies – for example internment or locking up suspects based on the word of a police officer (as proposed in the ROI) when our state is threatened.

    I suspect we all have our tipping points into the dark side and certainly so when the state shares our political (and national) objectives – so at what point when a state (existing or future) is under attack would your dark side kick in?

    In dealing with the drug gangs in the ROI and subject to agreement and involvement from the ROI, in the post GFA political environment in dealing with the dissidents in North, we probably need to allow ourselves to remove those who seek to undermine both states using methods that we would normally (and previously) view as unpalatable.

  • garter man

    Someone mentioned garter belts. Those things scare the hell out of me. This is a true story.

    When a lot younger, I was out on the town one night and got talking to these two oul birds who were getting a bit frisky and flirty. I blacked out, woke up the next morning staring at these two garter belts on my dressing table. What the f#ck? I said, as thoughts went rushing through my head. In my half-cut state, I grabbed the garter belts, ran down the stairs and hid them deep in the bin so my girlfriend wouldn’t find them. I was a bag of nerves for a few days hoping not to bump into anyone i knew from the pub that night. Then my girlfriend asked if I had seen the elastic clips for the bedsheets! Pheeew!

  • Rory Carr

    I should be careful if I were you, Garter Man. What with entertaining fantasies like the one above it might be reasonable of the authorities to suspect you of INLA membership.

  • garter man

    I will bear that in mind Rory.

  • picador

    You’re lucky your the wife didn’t find you in bed with the two oul’ birds, garterman. Otherwise she might have turned all IPLO. And then you would’ve been truly fucked.

  • garter man

    Picador, i don’t usually take home items of titillation after a night of pleasure, so the imitation garters surprised me. LOL

  • picador

    GM,

    Not half the surprise that Eddie Wheels and his mates got when they saw the guards.

    Mark,

    So would you still advocate a vote for Duffy – assuming he stands – even though he gave his backing to armed attacks on police in Craigavon last year?

  • seamus

    The INLA are freedom fighters these patriots will liberate the country. Everyone should unite behind these revolutionaries, revolutionaries just like Declan whacker duffy our very own che guevara a true working class hero of the people we salute you whacker, ok now anyone for a few lines of coke? and then to free the country….

  • Mark McGregor

    picador,

    I have no intention of engaging with you on this, or probably any other issue, as you are dishonestly presenting Duffy’s remarks in the aftermath of riots and raids in Lurgan as an endorsement of armed struggle.

    At no point did he state that. Shame on you for claiming it.

    Your comments are reminiscent of those that would republicans tried and convicted for merely having republican views on the the legitimacy of the RUC/PSNI or right of the British to control the north east part of Ireland.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mark,

    Are you going to address my question above?

    Picador,

    you may covered this elsewhere but is Col aligned with a political group like RSF or some other dissident grouping that has declared its support for armed struggle or is he a solo operator?

  • picador

    Mark,

    You accusing me of dishonesty. LOL

    Your comments are reminiscent of those that would republicans tried and convicted for merely having republican views on the the legitimacy of the RUC/PSNI or right of the British to control the north east part of Ireland.

    Now where did I say that?

    However on another thread – the one you ran away from – you said, dishonestly in my opinion, that you would not back a candidate who supports the use of struggle, implicitly or explicitly.

    You then recommended a vote for Duffy.

    It’s not often Mr Duffy goes on the record but here’s an example.

    Duffy on Craigavon violence

    He has since quit éirígí (as I believe Mark has)

  • picador

    I should rephrase the following:

    So would you still advocate a vote for Duffy – assuming he stands – even though he would not speak against those who organised hijackings and a bombscare so that they could lure police into a sniper ambush in Craigavon last year?

    Reviewing the above clip I am of the view that Duffy implicitly justified the violence as an understandable ‘community’ response to police brutality.

  • picador

    The ‘community’ being the Craigavon unit of the CIRA in this case.

  • the joxer

    ‘I am of the view that Duffy implicitly justified the violence as an understandable ‘community’ response to police brutality.’

    How did you feel when PIRA used the same reason to take physical force action against the RUC, Picador?

  • picador

    The RUC were a corrupt, unrepresentative and sectarian force which had very little support within the nationalist community.

    The Provos had a significant amount of support within the nationalist community.

    Today the PSNI has 50/50 recruitment and it operates with the consent of the vast majority of people (see 2006 elections). Soon policing will be accountable to a local elected minister.

    The CIRA/RIRA have almost no support (again see 2006 elections).

    There is no basis for hijacking or for mounting gun and bomb attacks on the police, who are at the end of the day public servants.

    I would welcome Duffy’s candidature though I strongly believe – partially due to the clip above – he would be a ‘physical force’ candidate.

  • Mark McGregor

    picador,

    That clip does not show any support for armed struggle.

    And shame on you as a vocal Sinn Fein member/supporter trying to label a republican facing charges in a British court with allegations there are no evidence for.

    Move over SDLP, here come the shinners.

    See you still don’t have the balls to put your real name against your fork tongued slabbering criminalisation campaign – like the rest of your band.

  • picador

    That clip does not show any support for armed struggle.

    A matter of interpretation perhaps. Yours is obviously very different from mine.

    Perhaps you are naive but I doubt it.

    You said you would not support anyone who explicitly or implicitly endorsed armed struggle. Perhaps you should seek out your preferred candidate’s views on the subject before endorsing him.

    It has to be said that you were quick out of the blocks with your endorsement.

    Forked tongue perhaps?

    For the record I haven’t expressed any views on whether Duffy was involved in the Masserene shootings or not. You seem to be confident that he wasn’t. Or else you just don’t care.

    I know the way you holier-than-thou thugs operate and it ain’t pretty. Silence through intimidation – just like the Provos used to do it. I don’t have a gun but I do have my anonymity and I will use it to oppose warmongers and their apologists.

  • picador

    Excerpt from Associated Press article on trouble in Lurgan.

    Sinn Fein pleasantly surprised its Protestant partners in government this month by calling on its backers to help police track down and imprison the gunmen. But the move means Sinn Fein has finally put itself on a collision course with dangerous diehards in its own working-class base – people who still inspire a potent mixture of fear and reverence.

    “You wouldn’t want to be seen by certain neighbours calling the police, let’s leave it at that,” said Marie, a Catholic mother of four pushing her two youngest children in a stroller uphill from Kilwilkie, past the railway line, to the Protestant centre of Lurgan.

    Like several other residents interviewed before and after Saturday’s riots, Marie would talk only if her last name and other details of her identity were concealed.

    “The fear is back,” she said.

    The fear in Kilwilkie centres on supporters of Colin Duffy, whom police and locals alike regard as the IRA godfather figure of the neighbourhood. He was repeatedly charged with IRA murders and other crimes in the 1990s — including for shooting two policemen through the back of the head in what was the IRA’s last fatal attack — but was never successfully prosecuted.

  • the joxer

    ‘The RUC were a corrupt, unrepresentative and sectarian force which had very little support within the nationalist community.’

    So it was ok to kill their members, Picador?

    If that is your view, have the guts to say so.

  • seamus

    Free Declan whacker Duffy a socialist and man of the people, a hero to young and old alike!!!

  • picador

    Joxer,

    Waging war when there is no prospect of victory is immoral. I trust this answers your question.

  • Boris

    Obviously they were tories looking for a satsuma!

  • Comrade Stalin

    Mark, isn’t it essentially the case that your issue with Sinn Fein is that they have failed to distance themselves from sufficently from things like 28 day detention of suspects ?

    As such, if an organization or person is deemed to be questionable because of what they fail to distance themselves from, doesn’t this apply to Duffy ?

    There are plenty of high profile republicans who oppose a resumption of armed struggle, the obvious example being Anthony McIntyre who is forthright in his position on this. Do you think Duffy shares McIntyre’s political and philosophical views on the recent violence ?

  • the joxer

    As you well know, Picador, you haven’t answered my question at all. Your logic is that it is justified to murder members of one police force but not another. Mark is right to query this anomaly in your moral standards.

  • picador

    Your logic is that it is justified to murder members of one police force but not another.

    As you appear to be slow on the uptake I will say it again:

    Waging war when there is no prospect of victory is immoral.

  • the joxer

    Prevarication with a capital ‘P’, Picador, and still no answer to my question as to whether you supported PIRA’s campaign of killing RUC Officers. As I’m so slow on the uptake, perhaps you could indulge me with a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer to that question?

  • picador

    I could not have been clearer, Joxer.

  • the joxer

    ‘I could not have been clearer, Joxer. ‘

    lol-of course not..

  • picador

    CS,

    An excellent piece by McIntyre.

  • picador

    My turn Joxer,

    Would you vote for Mr Duffy if he were to stand?

    I don’t believe he will stand as he and his camp will of course be asked to clarify their position on armed struggle.

    I also recommend to you Anthony McIntyre’s article.

  • the joxer

    Picador,

    No, I would not vote for Duffy.

    You are right that McIntyre’s article is an interesting read and thanks to CS for the link.. However I think that one line extracted from the article sums up his and indeed your own dilemma(s).

    ‘There are no easy answers (to legitimising attacks on the RUC but not on the PSNI) that avoid inconsistencies and strained logic.’

  • picador

    Joxer,

    A pity you had to misrepresent the overall gist of McIntyre’s piece by picking out that one line in a cheap point-scoring fashion.

    Without retrospectively seeking to justify attacks on the RUC I would once again point out that the PSNI has the democratic endorsement of the overwhelming majority of the electorate while the RUC manifestly didn’t.

    The same applies to the state of Northern Ireland before the 1998 referenda.

    Are you a supporter of the union, Joxer?

  • picador

    Do have the guts to say so if you are.

  • the joxer

    No, I am not a supporter of the Union, Picador.

    With reference to Anthony’s piece, I merely extracted the very telling admission from him as to the paucity of his own arguement.

  • picador

    Which argument was that then?