MI5 issues appeal for information

As the BBC reports, MI5 have taken the rare step of issuing an appeal for information about the recent murders by republican paramilitaries.

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  • LURIG

    Does MI5 no longer issue photographic ID to their informers? Think the spooks should contemplate their own navel if looking for the guilty. They could have just went to one of their filing cabinets and had a look in the ‘OUR IRISH EMPLOYEES’ section. They could then identify the guilty parties. It’s the usual smoke and mirrors from those in cloaks and dark masks. Smell nothing but sh&te; when I listen to this crowd. Weapons of Mass Destruction, John Charles De Meneges, Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson, Brian Nelson, Billy Wright, Stakeknife etc.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    This may be a cunning move by MI5 as it will probably draw a negative repsonse from SF and will be a major propaganda coup for the anti-gfa republicans who were probably very suprised (like most people) at the solidarity between the DUP and SF.

    Are these guys not supposed to be in something called the intelligence services – oxymoron or what.

  • Pedro

    The chatter in regards to the car bomb is a barium meal to expose the intelligence/surveillance network specifically HUMINT, I think you have fallen for a barium meal.

    The devices more than one would have be brought into NI prior to the latest offensive, various parts of the device are constructed and stored in various locations across NI and the final construction of the device occurs at the last minute.

    They don’t even need the bomb maker only the devices and the instructions so little hope of finding the former PIRA bomb maker. Beside due to the increased threat level delivery of the device is unlikely against UK military interests, it shows intelligence failings. So if you managed to shutdown one cell the risk of other is a clear and present danger.

    It could always be worse this could be the Mid East in which they use suicide bombers to drive the device in like the attack on the US in 1983 in Lebanon and the attack on the Marriott. That is not the IRA MO, however I suppose they could always purchase one from a Muslim cleric in the UK at sometime in the future.

    They want the British Army out of NI, but what you call ‘second thoughts’ are warnings they can but would prefer not too, restart war. It also shows they are prepared to lose such munitions which means they have sufficient supplies for a sustained campaign.

  • … MI5 have taken the rare step of issuing an appeal for information …

    Is that not akin to an admission that they haven’t a clue?

    Their appeal adds nothing whatsover to those already made by the PSNI, so what possible cause does it serve? They certainly know how it looks (see para above!), so there must be an ulterior motive. And let’s face it, the MI5 website is not really that well visited by the general public, so they must have been relying on the media giving their appeal some publicity (as it has done).

    It’s hard to decipher what it means.

  • LURIG

    It’s a diversion to make the public think that MI5 don’t know the people who killed the 2 soldiers and policeman. If Omagh is anything to go by they more than likely were listening in to some of the operators and know everyone involved. However they are probably trying to protect informers at the high ranks and so let these attacks go ahead. Some people might find this hard to believe but that’s exactly how they operate. Nothing is as it seems, always remember that.

  • southerner

    LURIG -> there was an interesting analysis on newstalk ireland this afternoon – in that its the CIRA/RIRA that are doing the diverting.

    diverting police attention and resources AWAY from their lucrative criminal activity in the border region.

    and what better way to do that than to murder some soldiers and a policeman.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Princess Diana is the top suspect.

  • southerner

    but granted – it is a bit strange that MI5 have waded in so publicly – given that Hugh Orde has insisted that it remain a policing matter.

    surely MI5 would just keep quiet about it and be all spooky?

    very odd indeed. i wonder what the hidden message is in all of this. MI5 are doing this for a reason.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Southerner

    I am sure that the Provos will be lining up to pint fingers

    The Real Traitors will come to the fore!!!

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Rory (South Derry)

    This is a massive propaganda coup for you boyz is it not?

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Sammy

    Either that or the Brits playing Mind games

    Hardliners that I know were actually shocked that these opertions happened in the last week

    The whole thing seems very tightly knit and has a lot of people poking in the dark

  • LURIG

    Rory

    Then that surely vindicates my position. Nothing is as it seems including some posters on here.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Rory (South Derry)

    From a propaganda point of view surely it doesnt matter whether they are up to something or not?

    Can see this being a real embarassment for Gerry and Marty.

    As the famousr rugby commentator Bill Mc Claren might have remarked – they will be singing and dancing in the RSF and TUV offices tonight – I can tell ye.

  • Sam Flanagan

    “The whole thing seems very tightly knit and has a lot of people poking in the dark”

    Your hilarious, that is why they are called, “spooks.”

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Rory,

    regarding you claim that your (ex) boyz gave the British one hell of a beating in South Derry – you did not confirm last night, how many soldiers from the mainland (ie not UDR) were killed in action ie whist they were armed.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Sammy

    Anything that discredits PSF and shows them up for what they are I applaude

    I think RSF are being controlled and calculated in their thinking

    The PSNI are obviously being big brothered by MI5 and as I said there is a lot of poking in the dark.

    Stories pointing the finger at a Man in Monaghan and the Gaurdian Story today are attempts to get a reaction which I personally do not think is coming are all very fishy!

    The Man in Monaghan seems to always get fingered and this looks like the Provos at work with their continued attempt to discredit this Former Provisional.

    The situation is to hot at the moment!

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Sam

    I am referring to the press when I speak about people poking around in the Dark.

    Any story seems to fill a newspaper when actions like this past happen

  • bootsy

    ‘I am sure that the Provos will be lining up to pint fingers ‘
    ‘personally do not think is coming are all very fishy’

    Thank you Captain Birdseye for that Fish Fingers update

  • TCMSOLS

    The key element that Sinn Fein did achieve was the removal of the fortified police stations in the agreement. As neither 5 or 6 picked the coming recession, As the Queen ask why did no one see it. Obviously, the IRA knew yet 5 and 6 did not. The fiscal implication of a re-fortification of NI is nonviable. Have you seen the state of UK hospitals and education facilities.

    Morale in the British Army specifically among officer is at an all time low. English civilians have no real care for the Commonwealth, so any IRA bombing campaign in UK would lead to independence for NI and any position to restart the war by the UK Government would lead to the downfall of Brown and Milliband.

    An intelligence estimate was produced in late 2005, so the UK are now many years behind. A lot of things have change since then and 2007.

    5 have to understand that all that work is going to at best produce only one or two cells, that cannot aid any larger investigation. It is and was called the long war for a reason.

    The issue of Northern Ireland leaving the United Kingdom is going to reoccur when the Queen dies and the UK Government and Parliament follows through with their wish to remove the Monarchy as head of the Armed Forces and change the affirmation. Ireland will gain separation from the UK.

  • Spades a Spade

    MI5arty hasn`t made a great number of new friends
    in Derry anyway, now that his covers blown.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Spades a spade

    Just sitting here thinking

    Exactly how many members of Sinn Fein had an MI5 photo or where Martin & Denis on there own ??????

    Incidentally when Micky Donnelly suggested in 2004 that Martin was an MI5 agent the Provos nearly beat him to death or were MI5 protecting there own

  • Martin Ingram

    I’ve just applied for reinstatement.
    Be seeing you soon Rory (South Londonderry)

  • TCMSOLS

    Rory. It is not the first time I have been insulted by being called a Jack of some sort. The imperative is that Northern Ireland will be separated from the UK. And there is very little that the UK can do about that.

  • ??

    It’s a diversion to make the public think that MI5 don’t know the people who killed the 2 soldiers and policeman……….

    typical repsonse from republican scum..it wasnt us it the MI5 wot did it

  • Rory (South Derry)

    ??

    Some name that – sure you are not Picador hiding behind another alias

    The Republican Scum as you call me thinks you are at it again

    Sin Ceart

  • TCMSOLS

    The issue about criminality and narcotic’s over the 250 dissidents is used as a diversion to make the community believe that fight is not about the old issues. It is done to de-legitimatize the groups and cause of separatism from the UK. It is an old English colonial trick to use former enemies to legitimatize their claims to sovereignty. There are only handfuls of former Unionists and Republican involved in criminal activities solely, just as there is criminality in the PSIN. It is done to disenfranchise any Republican support that there may be in the community, “these people are not acting against UK rule, but just for their own criminal enterprises”. In the hope that community will be more likely to ring crimestoppers and inform.

    The point being if it was about the criminality aspect no group would claim responsibility over the attacks. It would make the job of the security forces harder if no one claimed responsibility and it was undertaken as a general criminal investigation.

  • LURIG

    ??

    So by your thinking the relatives of the people killed in Omagh are ALSO Republican scum? They have given press conferences lambasting the British Security Services for their prior knowledge of the attack AND their attempts to get to the truth are being stymied by elements of the British judiciary and Security Services. If you can’t see that you are seriously deluded.
    Rory, do you not realise that Nationalists and Republicans have gained far more in 10 years of politics than we ever did in 35 years of war? You have to look at the bigger picture, the US pulls the strings and those engaging in violence will only be sidelined. I know they are hypocrites but unfortunately that’s the way it is. There is no choice in the current international environment, the world doesn’t revolve around Bellaghy or Lurgan.

  • MartinMcG

    It was Rory (South Derry) wot done it. Honest.

  • Secret Squirrel

    Those posts are probably the work of the evil Edward Nygma. :O(

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Martin McG

    Are you also a SF Clown or is it Picadick again???

    LURIG

    I dont care – Radical Republicanism has its agenda and we will not accept THE GFA EVER!

    America did not really approve ever so why worry.

  • Mi5 are capable of anything , they poisoned that weapons inspector Kelly after the WMD charade, they torture their own people , they are in bed with the yanks, they can’t be trusted.

  • LURIG

    But then Rory couldn’t Unionists & Loyalists use that same arguement if Nationalists ever became a numerical majority and voted for unity? They could say the same; they have an agenda and NO ONE will put them off. They might say “WE WILL NEVER ACCEPT UNITY” and start a violent campaign. It’s all about interpretation and as an Irish Republican I believe that we CAN’T sideline and ignore Unionists OR international opinion. Does that make me a traitor and sell out merchant? If it means NO more killing I can live with that. I firmly believe that strategically this is the way.

  • picador

    Sometimes those who shout the loudest have the most to hide.

  • circles

    So then Rory (South Derry) – are you going to bother letting anybody else in on this agenda? And just what exactly do you mean by radical repulicanism?

    Or are these only subjects one is authorised to discuss with a Wolfe Tones tape playing in the background and the remains of a massive carry out scattered across the floor?

  • NCM

    No matter what, I’m still opposed to anyone shooting pizzamen as part of any war or armed struggle… unless it is WWII and the pizzamen are delivering Nazi pizzas with pepperonis forming a large swaztika.

  • LURIG

    Out of interest I went on to the MI5 site and had a look. In reality they are in cloud cuckoo land refuting and denying ANYTHING illegal EVER. They are talking complete shite of course and that convinces NO ONE to give them information. THIS is a big problem. While we have the British government and their Security Services in complete denial about their sinister role in the North it will be VERY difficult for Nationalists & Republicans to give information about illegal activity. I was so angry at the lies and propoganda they push out on their website. If we are ALL going to be real about all of this the stance of the British Security Services will have to change. Give them their dues though they could lie for Britain in an Olympic event. SHOCKING, TOTALLY SHOCKING!

  • skinbop

    shocking indeed

  • LURIG

    As I have said before some things are NOT as they seem. The spooks are everywhere and monitor everything.

  • Secret Squirrel

    With the greatest respect Lurig, are you really that surprised ? :o)

  • Dave

    A low intensity terror campaign won’t collapse British rule in Northern Ireland in a 100 years. For a few decades it allowed the British government to contain the expression of disenfranchisement to a minority of the nationalist community, allowing the frustration of the nationalist majority to be vented by proxy rather than by direct anti-state action on their part.

    More importantly, a low intensity terror campaign allows a militant group to claim ownership of a cause by identifying themselves as the defenders of it. This is critical because, as is often pointed out, you can kill the man but you can’t kill the ideal. Therefore, you need to gain control of the ideal and redefine it according to your agenda. So, you need to encourage the anti-state terror groups to engage in that ownership process (see the Shinners for a classic example) and you need to ensure that you gain ultimate (but never disclosed) control of those groups. So, it is no longer seem as a conflict between those seeking self-determination and those denying it to them, but a conflict between a group and the State, or between groups within the State, rather than between an ideal and the State.

    Because the state controls the group that controls the ideal, it can bring it to a conclusion on whatever terms best suit it. The terms that best suit the state are, unsurprisingly, acceptance of the legitimacy of its occupation and an ideal that is reformed to see British sovereignty as wholly legitimate and, should the strategy of integration of the nationalists not prove 100% successful, then an implicit conviction that the Irish nation-state is something that is illegitimate (proffered by the Shinners) and which therefore must be reformed to recognise British sovereignty under the guise of creating “an Ireland of equals” where national self-determination is subject to the veto of those who are now formally recognised as British.

    On the other hand, civil disobedience by 40% of its population would collapse it within weeks. That is the tool that terrifies the British government, and it is why they allowed a low level terrorist campaign to be promoted over the civil disobedience alternative that emerged among the nationalist community in the late 60s. Civil disobedience collapsed British rule in India, and collapsed colonial authority in many other colonies on the continents of Asia and Africa. Colonial powers know that it renders an occupied territory ungovernable and there is nothing they can do about it. The game is up when a sizable segment of the population will not cooperate with the state.

    It is also why the British state has a policy of making the people state-dependent in NI, thereby discouraging them from opposing their rule by offering financial gain. John Hume was fond of saying that the unionists were loyal to the half-crown and not to the Crown, but the very same is now true of the nationalists. So, although there is an alternative way of collapsing British rule, they’ll give you 101 reasons why it is simply out of the question and why, therefore, they had to formally accept the legitimacy of British rule and renounce their own right to self-determination as part of the Irish nation in the GFA.

    And I think it is out of the question along with Irish unity, since the logical outworking of their present agenda long-term is, should the UK collapse itself, an independent Northern Ireland, not a united Ireland. Because they’re not Irish nationalists proper, they have no vested interest or real investment in an Irish nation-state or any real loyalty to it, seeing it as something that should be dismantled and replaced with a replica of Northern Ireland irrespective of what its actual citizens think about that. To that end, their controllers encourage them to see removing border as the end in itself (should the issue ever arise), rather than a means to the (pre-redefined ideal) of an independent and sovereign Irish nation-state where no other nation holds any form of veto over the will and destiny of the Irish nation. So, Irish unity is de facto redefined not as an Irish nationalist ideal but as the promotion of British constitutional arrangements. In other words, unity means reuniting under British rule – their controllers just haven’t not around to telling them that yet because it’s way out of the sequence of incremental steps.

    They gave up any prospect of a unified Irish nation-state when they all signed-up to formally accepting the legitimacy of British rule rather than maintain their previous stance of declaring it illegitimate and only cooperating with it under protest. Another thing John Hume used to say was that the oath of allegiance to the Queen that Irish MPs swore was just “an empty formula of words” but that isn’t the case post-GFA, so watch the Shinners be pushed over that Rubicon by their handlers sometime soon… 😉

  • Henry94

    Dave

    That was a very interesting perspective. My initial reaction is that neither a low-level armed campaign nor a civil-disobedience response address the problem of unionism. In both cases we by-pass them and define the occupation as a matter between Irish nationalism and the British government.

  • Jimmy

    I think it is spurious and downright arrogant for MI5 to take this course of action in fact it’s an insult. MI5 will never be accountable for its behaviour here in Northern Ireland, From Brian Nelson and many More it gave succour and defence to some of the most despicable people in society to take many Innocent peoples lives, that goes for the other security services as well. Weren’t they supposed to prevent this kind of thing? The War ended, but the dirty war is apparently still alive and kicking.

    Somehow the ad is to imply that they are the good guys and the acceptable face of the conflict, unbiased and Lawful, pull the other one! Perhaps MI5 are trying to test the water of Nationalist Public opinion, how it stands on the Murders how much support they can ascertain, who knows.

    I think however that Nationalists and Republicans will be smarter than to fall into that trap, until there is full accountability and openness about MI5-6 and Special Branch et al and their role in Northern Ireland and people seen to be held to account for what was essentially Criminal negligence in a lot of cases people will never cooperate, it would be absolute gross hypocrisy.

  • Jimmy

    I think it is spurious and downright arrogant for MI5 to take this course of action in fact it’s an insult. MI5 will never be accountable for its behaviour here in Northern Ireland, From Brian Nelson and many More it gave succour and defence to some of the most despicable people in society to take many Innocent peoples lives, that goes for the other security services as well. Weren’t they supposed to prevent this kind of thing? The War ended, but the dirty war is apparently still alive and kicking.

    Somehow the ad is to imply that they are the good guys and the acceptable face of the conflict, unbiased and Lawful, pull the other one! Perhaps MI5 are trying to test the water of Nationalist Public opinion, how it stands on the Murders how much support they can ascertain, who knows?.

    I think however that Nationalists and Republicans will be smarter than to fall into that trap, until there is full accountability and openness about MI5-6 and Special Branch et al and their role in Northern Ireland and people seen to be held to account for what was essentially Criminal negligence in a lot of cases people will never cooperate, it would be absolute gross hypocrisy.

  • hartshill

    Bootsy

    That’s not you, is it? Not the Bootsy who bombed the Shankill Rd Chip Shop. he wasn’t a traitor, of course, oh no.he was a good republ;ican.

  • picador

    Not the Bootsy who bombed the Shankill Rd Chip Shop. he wasn’t a traitor, of course, oh no.he was a good republ;ican.

    Cannon fodder.

  • That was a very interesting perspective.

    Articulate and well-reasoned but based on two false premises:

    a. the Brits really want to run this place, and;
    b. you can just ignore the Prods and sooner or later they’ll realise they’re really Irish.

    You can argue that civil disobedience overthrew British rule in India, but if you do you’re ignoring both the role that Adolf Hitler played in bankrupting the British state and the psychological retreat from imperialism that occurred among large sections of both élite and masses in Britain post-WW1. It was only the extreme nationalist right (e.g. Churchill) who opposed the Government of India Act, and from that it was a logical progression to independence, although independence in 10 years would have surprised everyone in both Britain and India, and without the Nazis would probably never have happened.

  • Jimmy

    I think it is spurious and downright arrogant for MI5 to take this course of action in fact it’s an insult. MI5 will never be accountable for its behaviour here in Northern Ireland, From Brian Nelson and many More it gave succour and defence to some of the most despicable people in society to take many Innocent peoples lives, that goes for the other security services as well. Weren’t they supposed to prevent this kind of thing? The War ended, but the dirty war is apparently still alive and kicking.

    Somehow the ad is to imply that they are the good guys and the acceptable face of the conflict, unbiased and Lawful, pull the other one! Perhaps MI5 are trying to test the water of Nationalist Public opinion, how it stands on the Murders how much support they can ascertain, who knows.

    I think however that Nationalists and Republicans will be smarter than to fall into that trap, until there is full accountability and openness about MI5-6 and Special Branch et al and their role in Northern Ireland and people seen to be held to account for what was essentially Criminal negligence in a lot of cases people will never cooperate, it would be absolute gross hypocrisy.

  • Jimmy

    Apologies for posting Twice..

  • TCMSOLS

    Failed campaigns such as against the United States, Afghanistan etc could never be conquered by the English you must win wars to reap the rewards or the rot starts to occur. It was from those failed campaigns that the British Empire start to allow nations to have autonomy due to the fiscal limitations of maintaining an Empire.

    That is why they cut the Australians lose prior to World War One. For US aid during World War Two prior to the US entering the war, Churchill had to make fiscal concessions to Roosevelt. The US won on that deal. If the US had entered the war earlier then the UK would be stronger today and still have an Empire, that was US Strategic Intent, the foresight of the US to gain global supremacy which has lead to the US being the only current superpower.

    After World War Two the majority of the remaining empire was given up due to the fiscal issue. Insurgencies in the former colonies would have allowed a situation in which the UK was that weakened that the UK mainland itself could have been subject to civil unrest or the feared communists rule. Israel fought the British in Palestine classified as terrorists.

    Those same conditions are present today and have been since the renewed campaign in NI started in 2007 due to the global depression, as such the time for NI to seek separation from the UK is now.

  • Reader

    TCMSOLS: Those same conditions are present today and have been since the renewed campaign in NI started in 2007 due to the global depression, as such the time for NI to seek separation from the UK is now.
    Why now rather than last year or the year before? Whenever it happens, it’s up to us anyway – my vote, your vote (if you live here).

  • picador

    It’s quiet on here tonight. Do you suppose that a certain person from south Derry could be away meeting his handler? Or perhaps he is out with his Flying Column?