Newsround

The Times is reporting that there were two armed guards on duty whom failed to fire back. However a senior army officer has defended them saying that they would have put more lives at risk.

The Sun is reporting, that one of the pizza delivery boys was ‘saved’ by one of the soldiers, who subsequently died as a gunman shot him whilst laying on top of the pizza boy. The soldiers told the boys to get down and one of them jumped on one of them lying on top of him whilst bullets flew above them. Apparently the gunmen kept on firing as the men lay dead on the ground. A friend of the delivery boy said: “The guy with the gun then just walked over and executed the soldier as he lay on top of Anto.”

Gordon Brown has also visited the barracks this morning and paid tribute to the men named as 23 year old Sapper Mark Quinsey, from Birmingham, and Sapper Cengiz Azimkar, 21, from Wood Green, London. Prime Minister Brown is holding talks with Hugh Orde, Shaun Woodward and political leaders.

  • picador

    The story is sad enough without the Sun having to make up cringeworthy crap to exaggerate the ‘heroism’ of ‘our boys’.

  • Scaramoosh

    We will wait for the News of the World to tell us whay type of Pizzas they were …

  • Harry Flashman

    How do you know they made the story up picador?

  • 6 County Prod

    The heroism of the soldiers stands in sharp contrast to the cowardice and callousness of the scum who murdered them.

  • The Times has a statement from the 19 year old pizza boy Anto:

    “The soldiers shouted for us to get down before we even knew what was happening. Then one of the soldiers just threw himself on top of me as the bullets were still firing,”

    That same soldier was then murdered. Says it all really.

  • Ahoy!

    The Chocolate soldiers on Guard were not up to much.

    Could it be that the chocolate soldiers are cheaper.

    And whoever was in charge of security at that base should be joining the end of a very long dole queue.

  • Diluted Orange

    [i]The Times is reporting that there were two armed guards on duty whom failed to fire back.[/i]

    What would have happened if the army [[b]had[/b] shot back and killed the shooters?

    Cue howls of disapproval from ‘community represenatives’ and incessant calls for a public inquiry into the killing of terrorists whilst in action. Just like in the aftermath of Loughgall or Gibraltar when IRA operatives were caught in the act and killed by the army.

    In 20 years will we remember how these soldiers were killed in cold blood? How their assailants first picked them off from afar and then stood over them whilst they were dying to finish them off? Or will the collective conscience paint a new story and remember the attackers as brave soldiers of Eireann attacking a foreign imposter?

    As for McGuinness – as well he might try to put daylight between the PIRA (and the atrocities he was involved in) and the actions of the Real IRA over the weekend it doesn’t escape the fact that during the Troubles the PIRA and the loyalist terror groups were just as callous and calculating in committing their crimes. There is no historical context which can excuse the execution and ambushing of innocent people (whether they be soldiers or pizza delivery boys)

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    There must be a genuine worry that the Tories will play politics with this issue (the Torygrapgh is still struggling to come to terms with the GFA)as they appear to be doing in aping the DUPs position over Police and Justice.

    Everyone must now surely see the need to press ahead and complete the last stage in the Peace/Political Process – the transfer of Police and Justice – which as the SOS has correctly suggested will help to undermine those responsible for the dreadful attack in Antrim.

  • Harry Flashman

    It amazes me how many normally sane posters in Slugger O’Toole analyse the terrible events of Saturday night and come to the conclusion that the real villains that need watching are, in no particular order; the British Army, Loyalists, securocrats, the British Media, Tories, Sir Hugh Orde and Domino’s Pizzas, well I made the last one up but hey give it time.

  • ABC

    Can I just say that Reg Empey struck every wrong note in the Assembly this morning.

    Petty politicking at a time when it is not called for.

    The contrast between Empey on the one hand and Robinson and Ford on the other could not have been more clear.

    He should be embarrassed by what he did today.

  • Harry,

    I agree. Only one set of people responsible.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    ‘Arry,

    how come you have left SF off your list of those to whom fire has been mistakenly been directed?

    You do suprise me.

  • Driftwood

    Does anyone really believe the culprits for these murders will ever be put behind bars? The republican community will close ranks to protect them. Adams and co obviously couldn’t care less,(at best) and no-one else wants to upset the gravy train.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    ABC

    What has Wee Reggie been up to?

    He didnt blame the DUP did he?

  • Harry Flashman

    Well Sammy let’s see, who have you posted up as the bad guys in this story? Well so far the Royal Air Force, the DUP, the Daily Telegraph and the Conservative Party, and that’s just from two recent posts I’ve picked up. Nice to see you can spot who the bad guys are in all of this.

    Any unresolved issues with Domino’s Pizzas yet?

  • ABC

    Sammy

    He tried to score points over policing and justice and parrotted some of the stuff Allister had been saying on Nolan. It was not the time nor the place. He’s an obnoxious wee creep.

  • Weary Unionist

    Reg Empey is sick and should be ashamed of himself

  • 6 County Prod

    Who’s an obnoxious wee creep, Empey or Allister, or maybe both?

  • Davros

    @4

    I’m not a fan of the army but I must agree, that’s pretty damned selfless.

  • ?!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00j7qqg/b00j7qnk/The_Daily_Politics_09_03_2009/

    Interesting view on the chocolate guards.

    What did Empey say?

  • Here is the text of adverts appearing tomorrow in the Irish News, Belfast Newsletter and the NI edition of the Mirror:

    OUR PEACE – OUR FUTURE

    Join a silent protest at the Massereene murders

    Trade Unions stand together with all citizens in solidarity to prevent any derailment of the peace process.

    The callous attack last Saturday night was an assault on every citizen who supports peace.

    All workers and their families are invited to express their abhorrence at these murders and the direct threat to the peace process

    Please attend our silent protests on Wednesday, 11 March 2009 at 1pm:

    Belfast City Hall

    L’Derry Guildhall Square

    Newry Town Hall

    By your presence show your support for peace and your rejection of those seeking to destroy that peace

    Please bring trade union banners only

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    ABC,

    The miserable little fecker.

    ‘arry,

    I think you are clearly having some difficulty with understanding what the word ‘blame’ means.

    But lets be clear about something here IF the Tories and Wee Reggie continue to feck about and try to unpick the Peace Process they will be rightly BLAMED for the fallout.

  • Earnan

    diluted orange

    if the guards had shot back, there would be none of the talk you mentioned. at least i hope not

    it would be a straight shootout, not a premeditated massacre like Loughall

    Why didn’t they shoot back???

  • Harry Flashman

    Oh right so Reg Empey now joins the ever growing list of the villains of this piece.

    Jesus wept, you have such a clear moral view of who the real threats to the Peace Process are don’t you Sammy?

    Do you think there might just be some rather more obvious suspects missing from your list Sammy, besides the obviously evil culprits like the RAF and the Tories I mean?

  • Diluted Orange

    Earnan

    [i]”it would be a straight shootout, not a premeditated massacre like Loughall”[/i]

    I think you’ll find it was a pre-meditated massacre – on behalf of the RIRA. Only difference is that in some Republican’s eyes this is viewed as fair game, part of the ‘struggle’; Part of the war.

    However, these same people see fit to cry foul if and when the army retaliate in the same callous and clinical manner. One act is considered a ‘war crime’ whilst the other is seen as an act of heroism in the name of a ‘Free Ireland’.

    Similar acts of cold-blooded murder were committed on a weekly basis 20+ years ago by the PIRA and loyalist terrorists. Yet with the advance of time people like Martin McGuinness continue to try to fool everyone into thinking that murder committed in the name of his vision of the Republican ideal is somehow more acceptable than any atrocities carried out by the RIRA in the present day. Murder is murder – no matter who does it or when they do it.

    That’s why I take the DFM’s apparent outrage at the weekend’s events with a pinch of salt – if he isn’t prepared to condemn IRA atrocities of the past at the same time.

  • joeCanuck

    Sammy,

    Stop digging.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Harry Flashman

    Now just in case you go off on one again – when I mention the Tories/UU/DUP/TUV below I am NOT suggesting that Posh Boy David Cameron(PBDC) or the Chaplinesque Wee Reggie (does he wear the funny hat on the 12th?) or Deputy Dodsy or Robbo or TUV Jimbo or whatever mad-right-wing-fecker writes the Tory editorials or your mum were anywhere near Antrim town the other night.

    No. It was some people, as yet unidentified, who wish to plunge Norn Iron back into chaos who are responsible – but if however the Tories and Wee Reggie in league/competition with the DUP/TUV, try to use this situation to turn back the clock then I hope that you will agree with me that such actions are extremely dangerous in the current climate of fear and at this juncture in the Peace Process.

  • Unite Union Member

    I wish to participate in the Trade Union Silent Protest this Wednesday but live too far from Belfast and Newry…wondering where L’Derry is???….can’t find it on my map nor does the SatNav indentify this place….any idea where it is folks…maybe the ICTU mean Londonderry….?? Perhaps they should say so, if they do !!

  • Unite member,

    Grow up.

  • burdaras story

    Raivo Pommer
    raimo1@hot.ee

    Die letzte Bank

    Die letzte bislang unabhängig gebliebene große Bank ist verstaatlicht. Trotz einer starken Kapitalaustattung und der Unterstützung durch die Gläubiger sei die Liquidität der Straumur Burdaras nicht mehr ausreichend, teilte das Institut am Montag mit.

    Die isländische Finanzaufsicht IFSA habe daher den Verwaltungsrat der Bank entmachtet und das Institut unter staatliche Kontrolle gestellt. “Im Ergebnis ist Straumur geschlossen”, erklärte die Bank.

    Die internationale Finanzkrise hatte Island besonders hart getroffen. Die Regierung übernahm im Oktober die Kontrolle über die drei größten Finanzinstitute des Landes – Kaupthing, Landsbanki und Glitnir. Damit verhinderte sie zwar den Zusammenbruch des Finanzsystems, der Staat ging jedoch fast pleite und konnte nur durch milliardenschwere Notkredite gerettet werden.

  • Those who are describing the guards as chocolate – if they had been Blackwater half the district would have been laid waste. Let’s wait for the stewards inquiry before judging I suggest.

  • anon

    Apparently democratic parties co-operate/uniting is a reason to commit murder.

    Right.

    Sunningdale For Very Very Slow Learners. Indeed.

    Incidently, the Labour party is organising in NI.

  • fair_deal

    “The Times is reporting that there were two armed guards on duty whom failed to fire back”

    1. It was night-time.
    2. There were six other people in the same immediate area as the gunmen.
    3. The attack took approximately 30 seconds.
    4. Guards are only armed with Browning pistols and pistols are notoriously inaccurate at any sort of distance. (My hunch would be that the guards’ weapons training isn’t particularly intense either).

  • picador

    Yeah, but how could the attackers be so confident that the guards wouldn’t fire back?

    If, as was reported, the initial burst of fire felled their targets and the killers then approached their fallen victims to administer the coup de grace they would surely have been exposed to fire.

    Either they were suicidally bold or, more plausibly, they knew that they wouldn’t be fired on. In which case they must have had inside intelligence.

  • Either they were suicidally bold or, more plausibly, they knew that they wouldn’t be fired on. In which case they must have had inside intelligence.

    That’s a hell of a leap. It’s certainly one plausible reason why they were so well prepared for what happened on the pizza run every Saturday night. But they equally could have worked both that and security personnel movements through careful observation over a period of many weeks. That would have been standard MO for the IRA in the bad old days, and it doesn’t require any great genius – just a lot of patience and a good eye for detail.

  • Diluted Orange

    [i]Either they were suicidally bold or, more plausibly, they knew that they wouldn’t be fired on. In which case they must have had inside intelligence.[/i]

    Oh, turn it on its head. Attack on British Army in Northern Ireland, must somehow, no matter how unlikely and unintuitive, equate to collusion?

    Why? So once again, predictably, we forget to concentrate on the heinous acts of Republican terror yet again?

    The conspiracy theories being pedalled on this site are ridiculous. The army presence in NI has been stepped down to such a low level it is probably unpredecented in the history of this state. The British military is at full tilt with the campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan. They don’t have the time nor the desire to play silly beggars in NI.

    Much as it might disappoint the theorists, Northern Ireland is not the centre of the universe, the British see our problem as being done and dusted and the barracks here are only being used as a stepping ladder in preparing the soldiers for the realities they will face when plunged into more far-flung conflicts.

    The guys manning the security towers probably haven’t fired a shot in anger in their entire military careers. They are probably UNDER ORDERS from the top brass not to EVER open fire unless explitically told to do so. Lest they re-open a can of worms and create another Bloody Sunday. This would be a scenario which I imagine would suit the Real IRA just fine – as it would no doubt manifest itself exactly as the powderkeg the RIRA are looking for to re-ignite the entire conflict.

    How about the questions people [i]aren’t[/i] asking?

    1. The obvious shift in operation style from planting a car bomb and running (which any loony with a bomb making manual can do) to a much more sophisicated and planned approach. Namely, the surveillance of a military target, followed by the clinical assassination of army personnel in a swift, brief movement.

    2. The use of automatic rifles to carry out the attack.

    3. The callous execution style ending to the whole affair.

    Am I the only one who seems to think that these men had killed before? And that they obviously had been given significant training beforehand. Surely these men are former IRTA? In fact I would say I am downright stating the obvious here.

    If so, what does this mean? Sinn Fein are impotent here – they have no control over events – hence the unequivocal condemnation of Saturday’s events. There is no carrot to dangle at the perpetrators and there is no political manouevring to be done. We better hope and pray that these guys cannot seriously get their act together.

  • Funny how Orde announced that the SRR were back in town the day before the barracks attack. These boys have been busy since their training days here. They were caught pants down playing “suicide bombers” in Basra and murdered Tube electrician J-C de Menezes before he could blow the whistle on MI5 & 7/7.

    Walked up to their target and coolly executed eh?…

  • fair_deal

    Picador

    “Yeah, but how could the attackers be so confident that the guards wouldn’t fire back?”

    They couldn’t guarantee it but were probably relying on speed and firepower. Terrorists armed with semi-automatic rifles with no regard for life will have a distinct advantage in any firefight against those armed with pistols who are trying to avoid shooting anyone but the terrorists.