‘Dissidents’ – they mostly didn’t think so

Kathleen has already given a brief taster of the Irish Republican Forum for Unity public meeting held in Toome last Thursday. I got along and wanted to blog this much earlier but had to nip off for a carbon footprint expanding weekend away. I’ll be revisiting some of the participants in the future.

It’s a long running joke that the first item on the agenda of any republican meeting is ‘the split’ and that’s what makes me all the more interested in covering the Forum for Unity. It’s unusual in republican circles and particularly ‘dissenting’ republican circles to see ‘unity’ as a primary concern.

Adds: minor edit to text while we seek further clarification from source.

At present republican groups dissenting from the pro-Stormont ‘Agreement’ line include groups ranging from traditionalist Republican SF, to the supposedly Marxist IRSP, to the I’m not sure about the ideology beyond sovereignty 32CSM, to trendy leftist agitprop junkies eirigi, to the newest group Republican Network for Unity (RNU).

Three of the groups have come together under the banner – ‘Irish Republican Forum for Unity’ – the IRSP, 32CSM and RNU. RSF won’t join any broad front on ideological grounds being supporters of the true government and all that guff and erigi too seem to be traipsing a route of ideological purism that means they’re not for joining either (I reckon they are just too feared of being near men that might be near men with guns).

As I’d heard IRFU (not the rugby guys) had been getting good crowds at meetings in Derry, when they got a bit closer to my stomping ground I decided to go along and try to find out who is involved, what they’re at and do they have any plans.

When we arrived at the venue it was already filling up, mostly with men (there couldn’t have been more than 5 women at this meeting) and by the time it kicked of there were between 150-200 gathered across a wide age range.

The meeting was chaired by former shinner and current Forum member Lawrence O’Neill. He was joined on the platform by Tony Catney (RNU), Francie Mackey (32CSM) and Tomas Gorman (IRSP).

Tony Catney, a former shinner, was very much on my radar and as I’d been hanging about in éirígí circles and people close to him had put it the public domain that he was declined membership of that group so I was intrigued to hear him speak under this new RNU banner. Francie Mackie was clearly someone I knew of but this was my first time to see what others would portray as a ‘big bad wolf’ in the flesh. Tomas Gorman was a pure leftie and I’m a sad case for that rhetoric.

So we kicked off with an introduction to this eclectic group – some associated with standing armed wings, others with stood down armed wings and some that don’t have an armed wing (unless we believe SF briefings – I’ll get to that later)

Kick off:

The chair for the night; Lawrence O’Neill –

The Irish Republican Forum for Unity was formed 6 months ago and started holding public meetings in Derry 2 months ago.

Lawrence addressed the question early of ‘are you armed?’ (Something he undid right at the end by encouraging anyone that may be making rockets in the garage to keep at it) with the line; “we are armed with a potent weapon that can’t be confiscated or decommissioned, that weapon is a republican umbrella’

He went on to say the meeting was about addressing Irish reunification but ‘while I’d not like to get hung up on other matters, I can think of a few bastards I’d like to hang up’.

Marion Price then took the floor and Kathleen has covered that.

So then it was over to the first speaker proper; Tony Catney of the RNU.

Tony stated that the words of ‘republicans’ were coming back to haunt them. “The GFA is not a Republican document” – ‘now they argue for it like it is’. They argue on terms set for them by Unionism. Republicans can raise any issue and have it dealt with, as long as Unionists don’t disagree.

He asked how giving a vote for SF promotes unity and said those that disagree need to be on the streets doing something about it.

Then Francie Mackie and I’m not a fan of his speech delivery – wooden wouldn’t be in it.

He started off by encouraging grassroots engagement via the Republican Unity Forum.

He then went back to pre-98 to suggest the consensus of a British led agenda had already been reached at that point well before SF entered any kind of open pubic discussions. He said there had never been a place for debate within republicanism when everything was on the table, leaders knew this and they adopted a poacher turned gamekeeper attitude to disagreement from within the ranks.

He then moved on to discuss future strategy and suggested the forum shouldn’t be a talking shop. He said previously dissenting republicans had missed opportunities to build support around key issues by being fractured.

He went on to suggest he was not hung up on ‘holy grails’

Then bizarrely a mobile phone interfered with the PA and we got a blast of ‘Only fools and horses’ – gotta say it spoke to me

Then over to Tomas Gorman (I liked him)

He described the GFA and political arrangements as merely a more sophiscated sectarian head counting exercise. He said failing to win battles on an IA or a Bill of Rights was not what republican struggle was about. He said we’ve ended up with pro-capitalist politicians implementing EU and British policy at one remove.

He reminded people of Paisley saying ‘he did smash them’ and stated every demand of unionists over the ast 80 years continues to be met.

He summed up with:

“To subvert the tyranny of our execrable government, to break the connection with England, the never-failing source of all our political evils, and to assert the independence of my country, these were my objects. To unite the whole people of Ireland, to abolish the memory of past dissensions, and to substitute the common name of Irishman, in place of the denominations of Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter, these were my means.”

Then we hit the floor and this was some craic at stages.

Questions on:

Do you think letting prisoners out on license was agreed by SF to ensure control over their actions once outside?

How do you let immigrants and Diaspora know of dissenting views?

Then a big debate on if the Forum should attack SF positions – consensus was to promote own views and challenges as appropriate. One what seemed like a genuine shout from the crwod to shoot Mcguiness.

It was raised from the floor about absentee landlords (claims that in West Belfast they were mostly/often SF/IRA connected) profiting from the poorest

Enoch Powell was quoted on ignoring your enemy- I assume this was a SF reference

Then bizarrely a suggestion from the floor to vote for Jim Allister as ‘tactical’

I’ve too many notes, that’s enough for now but too finish off:

Tony Catney – seemed to infer a senior member of SF (I assumed Gerry Kelly from his P&J reference) was briefing SF/provos he was part of an armed group intending to assassinate Adams and other senior Provo figures.

[off to bed, I’m just off a plane. Sorry I didn’t write it up better. Any complaints do it yourself next time]

  • percy

    Just join SF, and wind their necks in 😉

  • Danny

    Appreciate the recap, Mark. Thx.

    Does this group intend to contest elections in the future? Whether Local only, Assembly, Westminster…

    Do any of the individual organisations even contest elections? RSF does locals and the last Assembly elections on an abstentionist platform, but of course they are above such things as ‘broad fronts’.

  • Reader

    Tomas Gorman (quoted by Mark) : To subvert…To unite…
    Tomas Gorman’s position would be a bit more attractive if he swapped his objectives and means. But then he wouldn’t be a proper dissident republican, I suppose.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    I’m a British Ulsterman, what has the Irish Republican Forum for Unity got to offer me?

    Would my national and civil rights be upheld if their utopian dream for the island came about?

  • Moveon

    This is made up of a group of people half of whom profess to be in favour of a ceasefire and half whom do not so where is the unity there. Bunch of waistcoat wearing dinasours.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Is there anything to prevent these dissident groups from starting another generation of murder and mayhem? The history of 20th century Republicanism gives us good reason to be concerned, for every time Irish Republicanism gives up murdering and begins to embrace law and order, it’s only a matter of time until their ‘struggle’ kicks off again.

    As a concerned British Ulsterman and fellow islander, how can I be assured this dissident unity isn’t being used to regroup for another generation of murder?

  • fair_deal

    MM

    The TC claim about GK, were these alleged briefings a recent development or something that had occured at some earlier stage of the process?

  • GGN

    “Then bizarrely a suggestion from the floor to vote for Jim Allister as ‘tactical’”

    Perfectly logical if you need to garuantee Nationalist support for a united Ireland.

  • Mark

    FD,

    I think it was on the tail of his departure about 2.5-3 years ago.

  • fair_deal

    MM

    Thanks for the clarification, makes a bit more sense although still within the realms of the bizarre.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “I’m a British Ulsterman, what has the Irish Republican Forum for Unity got to offer me?

    Would my national and civil rights be upheld if their utopian dream for the island came about?”

    This is a fair question from the UMH.

    Would any ‘republican’ like to answer it?

  • circles

    They would in my vision of the Irish Republic UMH – but I wasn’t at this meeting in Toome and their vision may not be mine. So I guess you should ask them directly.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[/i]They would in my vision of the Irish Republic UMH”[/i]

    circles, in your Irish Republic, I could be British, an Ulsterman (without being Irish), a supporter of the Monarchy, an avid follower of Orange and loyalist band parades all over the island and most important of all, a Protestant.

    Sounds good, but what makes it an Irish Republic?

  • redhaze

    Seems like a half decent report, except for the nonsense about eirigi.

    Complete nonsense.

  • Nomad

    Sounds good, but what makes it an Irish Republic?

    Assuming this question is for real…

    1) You’d be a minority not swearing allegiance to an Irish state. (Notwithstanding your right to do so!)

    2) As a citizen you’d be able to vote for politicans to decide laws and taxes, and represent the state in various EU institutions.

    (Right now Gordo Brown says it would be illegal for Northern Ireland to look after its taxes separate from the rest of the UK)

    Fairly simple..?

  • circles

    What would make it an Irish republic is, now hold on to your seat, it will be a unified ireland with an elected president rather than a monarchy, and a government elected by the entire population of the island. You can still find the nepotism of the british monarchy fantastic if you wish, however the country will be an Irish republic.

    In your post you said you want “Orange and loyalist band parades ALL OVER the island” – unfortunately that wouldn’t be on the agenda, what would however be possible would be orange marches celebrating the orange culture in areas where this would be appreciated. The orange tradition is a uniqeuly irish affair UMH – you must know that by now.

    From your post you stress that most important of all for you would be to Protestant in an Irish republic – well heres something UMH, protestants already live in the 26 counties. Any irish republican who is out to establish a 32 county roman catholic theocracy is on his own.

    So with regards to your particular worries my vision of the republic would go like this:

    The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.

    Now how does that sound?

  • IRIA

    That blurb about Gerry Kelly is pretty big “news”. Mark-care to go into anymore detail than that blurb?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]1) You’d be a minority not swearing allegiance to an Irish state. (Notwithstanding your right to do so!) “[/i]

    Could I do any of the above officially, like fly my British flag, be classified as British on a passport, celebrate my Britishness and religion publically through parading, etc?

    “[i]2) As a citizen you’d be able to vote for politicans to decide laws and taxes, and represent the state in various EU institutions.”[/i]

    The taxes issue doesn’t really bother me. That’s the least a British Ulsterman in this new Irish Republic would be concerned about.

  • poi

    POI, it has been said before but ..

    “be classified as British on a passport”

    That is a matter for the British government, only they can issue British passports.

  • Nomad

    “Could I do any of the above officially, like fly my British flag, be classified as British on a passport, celebrate my Britishness and religion publically through parading, etc?

    I don’t see why not.. you’d be eligible for an Irish passport, as you now now too, but no one would likely force you to get one! Anyway, in a couple of years we’ll probably all have EU passports!

    There’d also be the DUP at the Dail too.. I’ve always imagined them being a good party to be in government as part of a voluntary coalition. They’re frequently on RTE talkshows/debates and get on better than they do on the BBC!

    And I think you’re crazy if you don’t want to bring tax control closer to home- new Irish Republic or not. (Although taking GBP6Billion surplus in revenue we didn’t raise always seems like an easy way out!)

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]What would make it an Irish republic is, now hold on to your seat, it will be a unified ireland with an elected president rather than a monarchy, and a government elected by the entire population of the island. You can still find the nepotism of the british monarchy fantastic if you wish, however the country will be an Irish republic.”[/i]

    Has it to be an Irish Republic for all time or can the people vote to make the Monarchy head of state?

    “[i]In your post you said you want “Orange and loyalist band parades ALL OVER the island” – unfortunately that wouldn’t be on the agenda, what would however be possible would be orange marches celebrating the orange culture in areas where this would be appreciated. The orange tradition is a uniqeuly irish affair UMH – you must know that by now.”[/i]

    The OO mustn’t be that Irish that it’s sectioned to areas where it would be appreciated. So obviously this new Republic isn’t as united as it would seem. Any chance of flying the British flag in these areas of appreciation, without the fear of being arrested? Could I have that in writing please?

    “[i]So with regards to your particular worries my vision of the republic would go like this:

    The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.

    Now how does that sound?

    Posted by circles”[/i]

    Sounds too secluded, abit like the 1916 proc, with not enough freedom allowing the country to change according to the will of the people. It’s too rigid, too republican and not democratically flexible enough.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “be classified as British on a passport”

    “[i]That is a matter for the British government, only they can issue British passports.”[/i]

    poi, circles told me my national and civil rights would be upheld in this Irish Republic. So could an Irish Republic allow the British government to grant me a British passport?

  • poi

    UMH,

    “So could an Irish Republic allow the British government to grant me a British passport?”

    There exists no legal mechanism to stop the British government doing such.

    ‘Parliament is soveriegn’. They could offer British passports to anyway they see fit.

  • FOS

    I have had a post from Kathleen’s video report of this even removed The post was not in any way libelous and I’m in the legal profession so say that with certainty. I simply questioned the coverage of the event without explaination or background for Slugger users in the first place.
    Is Slugger now in the business of censorship?

  • circles

    Oh now UMH – you know it has nothing to do with nationality as to where particular groups march, you’re just throwing that up as a red herring. Just because the OO is irish doesn’t mean it has the right to march all over the country where people don’t want it – no organisation does.

    But I don’t understand your last remarks at all – that it “Sounds too secluded with not enough freedom allowing the country to change according to the will of the people. It’s too rigid, too republican and not democratically flexible enough.” – could you explain that better, What part sounds secluded? what bit too rigid?
    Are you saying that without actually thinking about it just because its “a bit like the 1916 proc” or can you back that up a bit better UMH?

  • Dave

    “Perfectly logical if you need to garuantee Nationalist support for a united Ireland.” – GGN

    Is it logical for abstentionists to vote?

  • Plastic Paddy

    It’s too rigid, too republican and not democratically flexible enough.

    This, from a monarchist. Oy vey!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]Just because the OO is irish doesn’t mean it has the right to march all over the country where people don’t want it – no organisation does.
    “[/i]

    So much for Irish solidarity and building bridges.

    “[i]What part sounds secluded?”[/i]

    The fact that the country has to be a Republic, removes the right of any citizen who may wish to vote for a Monarchy. It removes the national rights of British citizens on the island by demanding they give up their citizenship for another. It secludes those British Nationals from ‘equal opportunities’ as they aren’t classified as ‘citizens’ of the Republic. Do we need to go further?

    “[i]what bit too rigid?”[/i]

    The fact that the country has to be an Irish nation and a Republican nation. That’s what is too rigid. It doesn’t even give the minority who may not be either the right or future ability to change the status Quo.

    Why don’t to try and build choice into your constitution. I realise that the majority of the people may wish to be Irish, Republican/ Nationalist and be content living under a certain flag, but why does it have to remain that way? If you’re serious about doing it, why don’t you do it right once and be done with it, and let the country, flag, emblems, etc develope according to the will of the people.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]This, from a monarchist. Oy vey!”[/i]

    Hi Paddy, it’s not illegal to be a Republican in Britian, every Republican has the same rights as any other British citizen. I wouldn’t be in favour of scraping the monarchy, but I’d be in favour of letting every tax paying citizen decide if they wish to pay money to support them. That should solve the matter.

  • Earnan

    “Hi Paddy, it’s not illegal to be a Republican in Britian, every Republican has the same rights as any other British citizen. I wouldn’t be in favour of scraping the monarchy, but I’d be in favour of letting every tax paying citizen decide if they wish to pay money to support them. That should solve the matter. ”

    If on tax forms in the UK one was given the option of keeping the small portion of your taxes that would go towards supporting the monarchy and all its trappings, I wonder how many people would opt to do so?

  • picador

    FOS,

    It seems like everyone had a post deleted from that other thread. Apart from UMH who really was out of order.

    The blogger in question has totalitarian instincts.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    The number doesn’t really matter Earnan, it’s really about providing choice. If we create a country that’s flexible and a society that’s braced for change, we should avoid violent revolutions. Such a system should create serenity instead of citizens feeling as if their always on a loosing battle.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]Apart from UMH who really was out of order.”[/i]

    The murderer was never caught and should still be hunted down and sentenced. Like a whole pile of murders in N.Ireland. Now that’s out of order.

    “[i]The blogger in question has totalitarian instincts.”[/i]

    rolls eyes

  • circles

    UMH you originally asked “I’m a British Ulsterman, what has the Irish Republican Forum for Unity got to offer me? ”

    But now you’re moaning about “The fact that the country has to be an Irish nation and a Republican nation” – so I’m wondering why did you bothering asking the question when obviously you had your own answer from the very start.
    What exactly was it about the term Irish Republican Forum for Unity that made you think they would be neither Irish nor Republican?

  • Nomad

    UMH,

    I really don’t know why you keep getting lost at a certain point.. If you don’t want to join an Irish Republic- Fine!! You’re not alone- maintain your vote that way it’s totally valid and lovely. You’re in a majority in Northern Ireland and will likely stay that way for many many years to come.

    However, to try and wind everyone up the way you’re doing is nuts. The UK and Ireland are pretty similar states with similar peoples. Ireland can be changed at any time with the will of the people, as can the UK. To try and argue that one is less accepting than the other in this day and age is more than a little disingenuous.

    You’re engaging in discussion with people with apparently no interest in learning, changing or teaching others.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]But now you’re moaning about “The fact that the country has to be an Irish nation and a Republican nation” – so I’m wondering why did you bothering asking the question when obviously you had your own answer from the very start.
    What exactly was it about the term Irish Republican Forum for Unity that made you think they would be neither Irish nor Republican?

    Posted by circles”[/i]

    I asked if what Irish Republican Forum for Unity could offer me, a British Ulsterman, fellow inhabitant of the island? what’s wrong with that since Irish Republican Forum for Unity wants to rule the whole island, the island which I live in? surely, I allowed to ask what they would provide for me?

    “[i]UMH,

    I really don’t know why you keep getting lost at a certain point..”[/i]

    Care to explain which point I get lost at NOMAD?

    “[i]If you don’t want to join an Irish Republic- Fine!! “[/i]

    No it’s not fine. This new Irish Republic seeks to remove my nationality and my culture. Get it into your head NOMAD, I live on this island too, and i’ll not be ditching my Nationality just to fit some stupid ideology which died long ago.

    circles and Nomad, if your Irish Republic can’t accommodate us British Unionists, that’s fine, just say so. But please don’t lead us up the garden path by saying your knew Irish Republic does this and that when it clearly wants rid of us.

    Is there any real accommodating republicans out there? and how can you accommodate us Unionists in your knew Ireland?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    circles, imagine if a NOMAD came to your door and said he’s buying your house and he’ll let you rent it. Surely you’d ask what’s in it for you?

    Imagine if he said you could live there, but you had to wear a certain design of clothes just in case the neighbours found you offensive.

    Imagine if he stopped you walking on the street showing off your new pair of jeans, because the neighbors didn’t like the colour of them

    Utopia?

  • Scaramoosh

    A case of the old and the disillusioned leading the deluded.

    Not an ounce …of common sense.

  • Dave

    Ulsters my homeland, a united Ireland would offer you the same rights as every other Irish man and woman (that, currently, is a share of one of the world’s largest external debt). Obviously, that’s a tad problematical if you are British and prefer the set of rights that British sovereignty confers upon you. If I was British and lived in Northern Ireland, I wouldn’t vote for a united Ireland because I would feel that my sense of British identity would be better served by remaining within the UK. I imagine that the monarchy would be crucial part of my sense of British identity and as republican is an official anonym for monarchy, I wouldn’t see how they could be reconciled within a republican democracy. Therefore, I’d stop making an ass of myself by demanding that those who are Irish stop being Irish and accept that I wouldn’t vote for a united Ireland until I felt that I belonged to the Irish nation (probably when hell froze over).

  • Mark McGregor

    FOS, picador,

    If you have a problem with moderation on the site take it up with Mick (he handily provides an email address). I don’t moderate the site, it has nothing to do with this blog entry and it seems like man-playing moved to another thread.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    dave, haven’t you read it? It says ‘Not an ounce …of common sense’…give it up, the dream isn’t worth it unless you change.

  • Dave

    Ulsters my homeland, it’s not my dream. I’m quite happy with partition as I have come to the conclusion that ‘your lot’ are too unruly to govern. 😉

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]Ulsters my homeland, it’s not my dream. I’m quite happy with partition as I have come to the conclusion that ‘your lot’ are too unruly to govern. 😉

    Posted by Dave”[/i]

    that’s a cop out. You don’t want to get unity sorted do you?

    The problem is with these numbsculls who preach island unity but haven’t the slightest idea how to do it, they just preach their Irish Catholic nonscence thinking the Catholic Irish will overcome the ‘non-Christian Prods’ (as labelled by Pope Benedict)

    Are Prods really not Christian?

  • Nomad

    Ulsters my homeland,

    “Get it into your head NOMAD, I live on this island too, and i’ll not be ditching my Nationality just to fit some stupid ideology which died long ago.

    circles and Nomad, if your Irish Republic can’t accommodate us British Unionists, that’s fine, just say so. But please don’t lead us up the garden path by saying your knew Irish Republic does this and that when it clearly wants rid of us.

    You gave a definition of what you wanted and asked where someone like yourself fits in. I certainly don’t speak for any group- neither Irish republicans for unity, British unionists or any mix thereof.

    You can make assumptions about me and any supposed aims all you like- I was just trying to help you understand one of the options as I see it. I’m not advocating. Nor am I asking you to give up anything. What I am doing is using my understanding of Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, Great Britain and the European Union to answer your question.

    You then made further assumptions no one had brought up about how a vote for a change in head of state would be impossible in this scenario. Among other things. THIS is the point at which you lose me and if you are arguing, your argument begins to fall off a cliff for me. I can think of any number of better reasons to remain in the United Kingdom.

    I certainly do see pros and cons in both situations and think people should know what their alternatives are.

    All I ask from you is that you don’t start pidgeon-holing me or you as I imagine we don’t know a lot about each other on a personal level. I’ll happily chat more in private if you’d like to mail me though.

    Dave,

    Ireland isn’t the only one with a lot of debt, even if it is a competition it’s currently winning!

    Now I regret entering something which is extremely well trodden here- the Slugger Irish Unity ‘debates’, as I keep forgetting what I really think is there’s not a great deal to be had in them!

    Now I’m off to wander around some economic threads again. Bye!

  • PaddyReilly

    I’m a British Ulsterman, what has the Irish Republican Forum for Unity got to offer me? Would my national and civil rights be upheld if their utopian dream for the island came about?

    The problem here is that you are using words in a non-standard way. By British, you do not mean born and/or brought up on the island of Britain. By Ulsterman you do not mean any and all of the natives of the nine counties of Ulster. And probably by national and civil rights you do not mean what has been determined to be national and civil rights by the European Convention of Human Rights.

    Basically you, and many like you, reserve the right to redefine everything to suit the interests of your particular faction. So probably the easiest answer to your question is no, declaring yourself to be British and therefore entitled to do whatever you and other such declarants want to do is probably not on.

    Nevertheless the Irish Republic operates within the framework of the ECHR, and also the law of conservation of energy. Many genuine British people such as Nick Leeson

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson

    find it to their advantage to relocate to Ireland. While the money continues to flow.

  • picador

    Mark,

    Thank you for providing information about this hitherto mysterious event. Those of us who have visited Slugger over the last few days could not have failed to notice that the event took place but now at last we know who was there and what it was about.

    I am interested to note that a group calling itself Republican Network for Unity is a component part of the Republican Forum for Unity. I am similarly interested to note that both éirígí and (perhaps more predictably) RSF are standing apart from it.

  • picador

    Observation:

    This track has been side-tracked by people trying to bring UMH around to the idea of Irish unity.

    Prediction:

    UMH will not be converted to the idea of Irish unity (not on this thread anyway).

  • picador

    Paddy,

    Many genuine British people such as Nick Leeson find it to their advantage to relocate to Ireland

    LOL.

    The Singaporeans found that Nick was a bit of a fraud.

  • div

    TC say that? No fucking way! No way TC would fuck up like that . No fucking way

  • div

    tc is to fuckimg careful

  • div

    Who fucking changed the stuf about kelly. This blog has gone to the dogs

  • fin

    “Hi Paddy, it’s not illegal to be a Republican in Britian, every Republican has the same rights as any other British citizen. I wouldn’t be in favour of scraping the monarchy, but I’d be in favour of letting every tax paying citizen decide if they wish to pay money to support them. That should solve the matter.”

    UMH, a republican by default could\would not swear alleigance to the crown hence a number of opportunities are denied in the UK not least been a MP.

    All in all reading your posts I’m struck by the idea that you are trying to hard to be British, you really should consider moving to “the main land” because quite frankly Gordon Brown and Lizzie would pay good money to have you live here especially when compare to the whingeing moaning complaining 60million of us they currently have to contend with. Do you need a visa?

  • PaddyReilly

    The Singaporeans found that Nick was a bit of a fraud.

    As a trader, they found him to be a fraud. But then they all are. But he was genuinely British, and was deported to that country on serving his sentence.

  • Dave

    “that’s a cop out.”

    No it isn’t, scamp.

    “You don’t want to get unity sorted do you?”

    It is ‘sorted.’ An overwhelming majority of citizens in the Irish republic (95%) voted to endorse partition, and a majority in Northern Ireland did the same. I’d like it if our wayward brethern (you lot) joined the Irish nation in common cause, but I’m really not bothered if you choose to live-off the charity of GB instead.

    “The problem is with these numbsculls who preach island unity but haven’t the slightest idea how to do it, they just preach their Irish Catholic nonscence thinking the Catholic Irish will overcome the ‘non-Christian Prods’ (as labelled by Pope Benedict)”

    That’s the problem, innit? You’d think the British would strip their state of its monarchy and its protestant ethos in order to appease Irish nationalists but not a bit of it. They’re British and proud.

    “Are Prods really not Christian?”

    I’m Jewish, so I couldn’t care less which false g-d you worship. 😉

  • Belfast Gonzo

    UMH

    If this group is “armed with a potent weapon that can’t be confiscated or decommissioned, that weapon is a republican umbrella”, then I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Maybe they would give you a bit of a poke with the end of it, but an umbrella is hardly as concerning as a bomb.

  • circles

    Picador I wasn’t trying to bring UMH round to the ida of a united ireland at all. He asked a question and I answered – turns out he wasn’t happy with that as he never really seriously meant the question. Thats cool, I just shouldn’t have let him bait me with a dead end discussion.

    As far as I’m concerned if he wants to dress in yellow and call himself a banana he’s free to do so and I really don’t care if he believes in the great banana god, dobbin the donkey, buddha or the great spaghetti monster. As long as he’s an Ulsterman we’re countrymen 🙂

  • picador

    Gonzo,

    Maybe they would give you a bit of a poke with the end of it, but an umbrella is hardly as concerning as a bomb.

    It seems you have forgotten about the Markov case.

  • mulder

    Is that why so many OO chappys carry an umberdoodle? hmmmmmmm curious

  • div

    [Play the ball – an not the man! – mods]

  • Fitz’s clubhouse

    “removes the right of any citizen who may wish to vote for a Monarchy” UMH

    Possibly one of the most odd senteces I’ve ever seen. Have you a history of voting Monarchies out or into power?

  • picador

    div,

    Who did you phone? Just curious.

  • picador

    There were probably quite a few ‘dangerous bastards’ at this shindig. The good news is that these guys probably pose a greater danger to each other than they do to the world at large.

  • Masterdebator

    [i]”well before SF entered any kind of open [b]pubic[/b] discussions”[/i]

    Now that would be truly horrible to witness. but perhaps my favourite type-o ever!