‘Just as well you can’t libel the dead’ – or something new on Father Denis Faul?

After posting Gerard’s review of the éirígí public meeting on the Hunger Strike and his footage, I’m surprised no-one noted the section on Denis Faul which seems to have some controversial comment (I’ve tried my best to transcribe from poor audio but listen yourself):

Bernard Fox (3:30) – “he was a political priest”

Bernard Fox (3:52) – “In my view and if what I am saying is cruel, I think he was a bigot”

“He didn’t like protestants”

Speaker from the floor – “This is what he says to us, shoot protestants don’t be shooting taigs, shoot protestants. He says that in mass, he said that in mass”

ADDS: Neither I nor Slugger can stand over that comment and we don’t know who made it. Anyone know who the speaker was?

  • Jimmy Sands

    Well there are two logical possibilities aren’t there. One is that Monsignor Faul was a homicidal sectarian bigot, and the other is that some malicious chuckie hanger on is trying to smear him.

    Tough call isn’t it?

  • Mark McGregor

    Jimmy,

    First up – great to see you back.

    As for the content, we have the option of seeing if we can track down anyone willing to stand over it – a work in progress that may or may not come to anything.

  • Jimmy Sands

    Thanks Mark. I haven’t gone away you know.

  • cynic

    Jimmy

    Denis Faul “a homicidal sectarian bigot” …. impossible …… he was never in PIRA was he?

    Seriously though. Isn’t it a step forward to hear allegations from the floor that show an emerging thought that killing Prods might have been wrong. That’s progress.

  • Mark McGregor

    Jimmy,

    Some us hold long grudges and I’m one of the worst. I hope to see that fecker who caused your adjournement caught in the long grass and caught well.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    I think that Fr Faul couldn’t really decide which he disliked most – republicans(of any hue) or protestants(of any hue).

  • slartibuckfast

    Hear, hear, Mark. What a swine.

  • Another Grey Hair

    God it’s great to see Jake again. I haven’t seen him for 35 years. Ask him how his eyes are; I hear they’ll never decompose 🙂

  • FWIW, I recall busybody ‘Martin Ingram’ making such claims about Fr. Faul on IRBB. And he made even more damning claims about Fr. Murray’s fairness.

    ‘Ingram’ particularly didn’t like what Murray and Faul were saying about Captain Simon Hayward, the major lynch-pin in British covert operations against the IRA, especially what Faul had to say about the assassination of Francis Bradley – what was to give Hayward an apparent alibi for assassinating statsminister Olof Palme here in Stockholm ten day later.

    ‘Ingram’ particularly didn’t like the statement that Bradely made to Faul during his set-up – what is quoted on p. 349 of Murray’s The SAS in Ireland.

  • It was early in the morning when I posted my last one, and I did not notice that Seamus O’Connor, a friend of Bradley’s, made a statement too to Father Faul at the bottom of p. 347, and continued on in the following ones.

    It showed that a major British covert operation, kicked off by the shooting up on December 9, 1985 of the Castledawson Police Station – what indicated that the securocrats were giving up defending such stations, and were going on the offensive – and the arrest of O’Connor, was underway where he and Bradley were being set up as scapegoats for it.

    O’Connor was repeatedly told by various RUC officers that he would not live to see his anticipated wedding around Easter.

    Then on pp. 351-2, O’Connor expanded upon the surveillance he and Bradley were under. In it, he described the man leading it: “When I was in the shop playing a poker machine, an individual was starring at us. He was 5’10”tall, well built, 30-35 years of age.”

    Certainly sounds like Hayward, and for a better look at him, consult the back of the dustjacket of Tony Geraght’s The Irish War – what caused all the MoD furore when it was published, resulting in it appearing without same when it was reprinted in paperback.

    “I was afraid at that time,” O’Connor concluded,
    “that we were to be set up in the light of these movements.” (Quoted from p. 352.)

    And Bradley certainly was when a 14 Intelligence Company squad, apparently led by Hayward, gunned him down on February 18, 1986 from behind when he went to move a cache of old weapons which had been conveniently set for him to move.

    Certainly, Hayward and his mouthpiece, ‘Martin Ingram’, could not have been the slighest bit pleased by the publication of these comments.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    why didn’t they take up Fr. Faul’s advice instead of killing more of their own sort, Catholics?

  • Ann

    FWIW, I recall busybody ‘Martin Ingram’ making such claims about Fr. Faul on IRBB.

    Trowbridge do you think it was him who made the comments 🙂

    Only kidding, I think it was a sleeper or maybe a plant.

    Stay cool. I’m off until tomorrow..

  • As usual, I don’t know what you are talking about, UMH.

    The Catholics did listen to him, as Fr. Denis Faul was instrumental in ending hunger strikes.

    It was the British who would not listen to him, whether it was interning innocent Catholics, torturing many of them, staging unnecessary, deadly ambushes of volunteers like Seamus McElwain, Francis Bradley, those at Loughgall, etc.

    Why didn’t the British securocrats pay heed to him?

  • Dan Breen’s Revolver

    UMH

    WHy do you ask? From your posts you obviously could care less about taigs being killed

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]As usual, I don’t know what you are talking about, UMH.”

    Trowbirdge H. Ford[/i]

    Well if you wouldn’t spend your retirement thinking you’re an important link of intelligence between both sides of the Atlantic, you might just understand what is happening on the ground in N.Ireland. N.Ireland doesn’t need land-to-air missles, so what have you to offer us (international intelligence chief)? Why don’t you enjoy your retirement?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Dan Breen’s Revolver

    “[i]UMH, WHy do you ask? From your posts you obviously could care less about taigs being killed”[/i]

    I could care less? or I couldn’t care less? what is it?

  • Danny O’Connor

    The Provos called him the menace ,not just rhyming slang ,he convinced the families to intervene once a prisoner on hunger strike lost consciousness-thus in effect preventing further deaths.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]he convinced the families to intervene once a prisoner on hunger strike lost consciousness-thus in effect preventing further deaths.[/i]”

    but not all families prevented a death, so it wasn’t for that reason.

  • susan

    “Well there are two logical possibilities aren’t there. One is that Monsignor Faul was a homicidal sectarian bigot, and the other is that some malicious chuckie hanger on is trying to smear him.

    Tough call isn’t it?

    Posted by Jimmy Sands on Nov 17, 2008 @ 11:01 PM”

    Cutting to the core of this like a hot knife through butter, Jimmy.

    Trowbridge, thank you for your reference to the thorough interviews and research Fathers Faul and Murray did in their pamphlets and books, conducting interview after interview, both fully sourced and occasionally anonymous, in an attempt to bring to the outside world’s attention the abuses of power inflicted by the Royal Marines and later the SAS on the people of South Armagh. Their thoroughness then makes the “search” for truth of certain others read like O.J.’s “search” for the real killers in comparison.

    The existence of those books and pamphlets — several available readily online through the CAIN website — must be a continuing inconvenience to those packaging the story of the Troubles. It makes a nonsense both of official British claims of being an imperfect but essentially honest broker doing their best to referree between two uncivilised, warring tribes, and to the official (until the last couple of years, and I do appreciate that) PIRA line that all Catholics executed or excluded were either touts or drug dealers.

    Sure they were. And also, there is a rabbit that once a year delivers coloured and chocolate eggs to all the children of the world without the use of opposable thumbs.

  • Thank you, susan, for keeping track of everything,
    and making it crystal clear for those of us who really want to know what happened during The Troubles.

  • susan

    please don’t overestimate me, Trow, like many reading and posting here I’m just haunted by a certain amount of dark shit from more than one side of a three sided conflict.