In am le éirí aníos go measartha gasta?

Agus Robert McMillan ag scríobhadh i mBeo ar na fadhbanna a bhaineann leis an chóras polaitíochta faoi lathair. Go bunúsach: “tá sé iontach furasta d’fhéiniúlacht a chosaint ó thuaidh – nár fhoghlaim tú fúithi ó ghlúin do mháthar? – ach tá sé i bhfad níos deacra ceisteanna casta ar chúrsaí sláinte nó iompair nó oideachais a réiteach.”

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  • ggn

    Go dearbh.

    Ach bímis realaíoch, chan fhuil muid inár aonair, caithfear na ceisteanna móra, agus is ceisteanna móra iad, fá ‘fhéiniúlach’, rud nach mbíonn fonn orm féin a phlé de ghnáth a réiteach sular féidir linn “ceisteanna casta ar chúrsaí sláinte nó iompair nó oideachais a réiteach”.

    Do bhunús na náisiúntóirí ó thuaidh beidh ceist an chomhionannais lárnach i gcónaí, agus más féidir linn fianaise a bhaint as torthaí gach todhcháin le triocha bhliain anuas, níos tábhachtaí ná na gnáth-cheisteanna.

    Maidir leis an oideachas de, ní féidir a phlé gan tagairt do chúrsaí cultúrtha agus creidimh. Sin mar atá, níl aon éalú as.

    Maidir le cúrsaí sláinte agus eile, dar ndóigh ba chóir dul chun cinn ar na ceisteanna seo. Tá comhtheasc polaitiúil de dhíth i gcónaí, is mar sin atá gach stáit is stáitín.

    Tá sé scríofa agus ráite agam féin go bhfuil mise ar son ‘Plean B’ agus comhriail de chineál éigin amach anseo de bhrí nach bhfeictear dom cé dóigh arbh fhéidir le polaiteoirí ó thuaidh aon réiteach a aimsiú, agus nílim ag cur an locht ar fad orthu sin ach an oiread.

    Fáilte roimh post i nGaeilge. Chuala mé caint fá slugger agus blaganna eile ar an Veeb aréir dála an scéil.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    lol, some funny sounding promunciations in there. and I thought ooolster-scotch was bad.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    are them wee marks french acutes? do they do anything?

    Can Irish describe things in the present tense?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Does the ending of the word have to be changed in Irish to make it present tense?

  • Mick Fealty

    The verbs all change with a shift in tense UMH. And yes, we do have a present tense, even if not everyone on Slugger always knows how to address it. 😉

    Now, Daltai na Gaeilge (or Gaeilge L?) is the site your looking for for help learning the language. Although if you look at Beo they have definitions for some of the more difficult words and phrases.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Was that method of adding a present tense always there in the Gaelic language or was it adopted from the Germanic languages?

  • ggn

    ‘Bhfuil a fhios agat a Mhick, léiríonn an líne cainte seo an fhadhb.

    Tá cuid mhór daoine a bhfuil Gaeilg acu arbh fhéidir leo páirt a ghlacadh ann.

    Is léir nach bhfuil mórán spéis acu, níos mó spéise sna hargóintí eile ag dul ar aghaidh thart orthu anseo nach mbaineann le cúrsaí oideachais agus sláinte.

    Seans go dtiocfaidh duine anseo chun a rá liomsa go bhfuil mé ardnósach, bíodh sin acu ach feictear domsa go bhfuil cuid mhór daoine gafa leis an argóint ar slugger, mé féin ina measc, ach nuair nach féidir leis an ‘taobh eile’ páirt a ghlacadh ann, cha bhíonn an spéis ceanna ag na Gaeil sa díospóireacht ach an oiread.

    “ach tá sé i bhfad níos deacra ceisteanna casta ar chúrsaí sláinte nó iompair nó oideachais a réiteach”.

    Sea, agus tá an fhianaise le feiceáil anseo. Char chuir duine ar bith spéis sa líne cainte seo seachas amadán amháin agus prioll frith-Ghaeilge.

    Sin an saol seo, c’est la vie.

    Key word : faith!!

  • “are them wee marks french acutes? do they do anything?”
    Every language is written in its own way. The accents lengthen the sound of vowels in a similar way to French accents aigues. Some languages like Dutch handle this in the spelling so you don’t see á for a long vowel sound you see aa. Almost every European language has an orthography using some kind of accent markings, even English has the diaeresis in naïve.
    “Was that method of adding a present tense always there in the Gaelic language or was it adopted from the Germanic languages?”
    I am not sure why you imagine that any language would not have a present tense. Many languages have no clear future tense and the past tense forms can vary widely but every language I know has a present tense.

  • Steve

    Aidan

    She is just trying to be disruptive on the thread cause someone dared to post in Irish

  • Mick Fealty

    Mar ata luaite agam i gcónaí, tarlaíonn rudaí mar seo nuair a foscaillean scoilt i gcarraig na Gaeilge anseo. Cluinim go raibh tusa ina blagadoir ar feadh tamall. Ma is méin leat, tig leat é a dhéanadh anseo!

  • B’fhéidir go bhfuil suim aici i ndáiríre níos mó a thuiscint faoin nGaeilge agus mar sin cheapas freagra a thabhairt di. Is rud brónach dom é nár dtuigeann a lán daoine as Cúige Uladh gurb í Gaeilge nó Gaeilge na hAlbain ag a sinsear freisin.
    Bheadh sé suimiúl cúrsaí polaitíochta a phlé as Ghaeilge ach má smaoineann daoine gurb fadhb í an Gaeilge féin níl seans ann déan díospóireacht a dhéanamh faoi cúrsaí oideachas nó leigheas, is mór an trúa é sin.

  • RepublicanStones

    Tá bron orm Mick, nil me go maith le an teanga duchasach ach…sceala maith?

    http://www.jimallister.org/default.asp?blogID=1189

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]The accents lengthen the sound of vowels in a similar way to French accents aigues. Some languages like Dutch handle this in the spelling so you don’t see á for a long vowel sound you see aa. Almost every European language has an orthography using some kind of accent markings, even English has the diaeresis in naïve.”[/i]

    Cheers Aidan.

    “Was that method of adding a present tense always there in the Gaelic language or was it adopted from the Germanic languages?”

    “[i]I am not sure why you imagine that any language would not have a present tense. Many languages have no clear future tense and the past tense forms can vary widely but every language I know has a present tense.”[/i]

    I was asking about the structure of present tense endings in Irish. In Scots Gaelic there is a different ending, an ending which is more related to an older form of the language.

  • Mick Fealty

    Bí dílis Aidan. Tarlaíonn é ó am go ham. Ach ní thig liom an Gaeilge a bhlag go coitianta. ‘Critical mass’ d’ith orainn.

  • ggn

    RS,

    Chuala mé daoine ag caint faoin scéal sin ar an BBC aréir.

    Suimiúil.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/irish/blas/realaudio.shtml

  • “I was asking about the structure of present tense endings in Irish. In Scots Gaelic there is a different ending, an ending which is more related to an older form of the language.”

    Your question made me check how Scots Gaelic forms the present tense and now I see where you are coming from. I never knew that the structure of Scots Gaelic was so different in this way.

    The present continuous is the same
    – Tha a’ ghrian ag èirigh. (Scots Gaelic)
    – Tá an ghrian ag éirí. (Irish)
    – The sun is rising.

    But Scots Gaelic uses the future tense for the the other present tense (I don’t know English grammar!)
    – Èiridh a’ ghrian. – The sun rises. (Scots Gaelic)
    whhich is the same as
    – Éireoidh an ghrian. – The sun will rise. (Irish)

    In Irish there is another tense for saying the sun rises (every day):
    Éiríonn an ghrian.

    Thanks for pointing out this peculiarity, you learn something new every day.

  • ggn

    I cant believe I am doing this but. Like many things with UMH, its the other way round!

    Basically, Scottish Gaelic has lost the present tense. This is how they get round it.

    Tha a’ ghrian ag èirigh = The sun is rising & the sun rise.

    Whilst in Irish the present tense is preserved as Aidan has illustrated.(it is also found in the Scottish Gaelic bible).

    as Aidan has shown Èiridh a’ ghrian = Eireoidh an ghrian in Irish BUT Èiridh a’ ghrian = the sun WILL rise. BUT it formerly meant ‘the sun rises’, the present tense in Scotland being used as the future tense now. i.e. Classically speaking Éiridh a’ ghrian means in Classical Gaelic ‘the sun rises’.

    This form can be found in the speech of a really good Ulster Gaeilic speaker and almost all Ulster speakers will use the negative of the present tense to indicate a negative in the future, i.e cha bhíom = ‘i do not be’ and ‘i will never be’.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]Basically, Scottish Gaelic has lost the present tense.”[/i]

    are you sure Scottish Gaelic lost it and modern Irish didn’t add it during the modern Irish period (1200AD – 1700AD)

  • ggn

    UHM,

    O’, I think we are both quite sure of that dear boy.

    1200-1700 is what is know as Early Modern Irish, by the way.

    1700-present is viewed as Modern Irish / Scottish Gaelic.

  • RG Cuan

    Tá mise i bhfách le Plean B chomh maith, tá an fhorbairt anseo ó thuaidh i bhfad ró-mhall dar liom. Go ceann roinnt blianta eile beidh daoine ann a chuirfidh i gcoinne gach rud dearfach.

    Maidir le ‘Is í Cúige Uladh mo Thír Dhúchais’, is léir go bhfuil sé ag iarraidh fáil amach faoin teanga ach tá sé ag iarraidh cur isteach ar an chomhrá ann chomh maith.

  • ggn

    RG Cuan,

    Tá mise ar aon fhocal leat a chara, ach in amanntaí is doiligh gan giota foghlaim a thabhairt dó. Níl neart agam air.

    Sea, plean B. Silím go mbeadh cuid mhór daoine ar aon fhocal linn fán am seo. Níl an tionól seo ag dul áit ar bith.

    Char labhair mé le duine ar bith sa phobal náisiúnach a rabh cion ar bith acu don rud ar fad, a mhalairt a mhothaigh mé féin.

  • Cuairteoir

    Chuala mise caint ar rud Allister fosta. Bíonn duine darb ainm Ciarán Dunbar ag plé scéaltaí mionteangacha gach Déardaoin ar Blas le Tomaí Ó Conghaile. Mír an-spéisiúil atá ann.

    Agus bheadh BBC Gaeilge/TÉ ar dóigh!

  • miceal

    Is iontach an rud e an Ghaeilge a fheiscint ar Slugger. Agus aontaim libh maidir le Uladh mo thir dhuchais. Leis an meion agat ag an nduine sin bheadh ionadh orm da mbeadh se sa bhaile in aon tir ar bith. Agus b’fheidir nach gcuirfeadh Naomh Peadar failte roimhe ach oiread.

  • miceal

    Ceartuchan.
    “leis an meoin ata ag an nduine’
    Gabhaim pardun agaibh.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    ggn

    ‘are you sure Scottish Gaelic lost it and modern Irish didn’t add it during the modern Irish period (1200AD – 1700AD)’

    “[i]O’, I think we are both quite sure of that dear boy.

    1200-1700 is what is know as Early Modern Irish, by the way.

    1700-present is viewed as Modern Irish / Scottish Gaelic.”[/i]

    If Scots Gaelic lost the present tense in Irish, could you then explain why Scots Gaelic shares it’s present tense with middle Irish (1000AD – 1100AD), which is before Early Modern Irish?

    When did it loss it, it must have been before 1000AD

  • ggn

    UMH,

    Seriously, with all due respect you are taking absolute bollicks.

    I have trying to articulate that better and less patronising but semantically speaking bollicks is perfect.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    I take it you’ve studied Middle Irish and can categorically state the structure of the present tense is not the same as Scots Gaelic?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    well, is there any middle Irish scholars agrees with ggn’s refusals?