IMC asked for Army Council report

The IMC has been asked to produce a report of PIRA structures including the Army Council by the end of the month. In May Martin McGuinness wanted to keep IRA structures off the political agenda. The last statement issued by the IRA leadership was at Easter.

  • there goes the Sinn Fein/IRA argument….

  • unbelieveable

    p45 anyone??

  • Rooster Cogburn

    Those mills might grind slowly, but by heavens, don’t they grind exceedingly fine? I suppose the question now is, does Murderin’ Mart have much of a nose left to rub in it?

  • Bigger Picture

    Looks like SF are going to have to cave on the Army Council to get a deal, plus that ministry won’t even go to them and can be veteod by the DUP at every future one. I know I take a DUP biased view on this site but personally if that is how things transpire then the DUP has played an absolute blinder in making sure the Army Council goes and the Shinners still can’t get their hands on p+j!!

  • the future’s bright, the future’s orange

    Aye, bigger picture, but if SF are good enough for government, should they not be good enough for justice?
    I can’t see the army council dissolving completely, but I imagine there will be some ‘shift’ that will allow both sides to ‘claim victory’.
    To date, SF and the DUP have agreed on little or nothing and you have to wonder if there is any point devolving P&J;? Will this not create another series of stalemates? I guess like most things in NI, it’s more about symbolism than anything…

  • Bigger Picture

    ” if SF are good enough for government, should they not be good enough for justice?”

    Quite frankly I do not believe that they are fit for Government but I don’t vote for them and I’d rather be in there veton’ their Republican agenda than crying from the sidelines. For SF this is all about symbolism their ministers are crap but they need to be seen to claiming victories, I doubt there will be much to claim victory from this.

    In addition I don’t think it’s even neccessary to devolve p&j;I think the assembly is only getting to grips with the powers it has, I doubt it really needs anymore

  • Really?

    “plus that ministry won’t even go to them and can be veteod by the DUP at every future one.”

    Rubbish. They can only veto SF from taking it in the future if they take it themselves which will leave SF with the purse strings.

  • slug

    Really, isn’t the Policing and Justice ministry going to require new legislation that sets it aside from the other posts now and in future.

  • Really?

    Slug, that hasn’t been agreed. The only thing that has been agreed is that neither SF or the DUP will take the post initially. SF was never going to agree that they are permanently barred from the post.

  • the future’s bright, the future’s orange

    I assume any decisions will require cross-community support, however?

  • Bigger Picture

    Really?

    Listen to the news SF and the DUP have agreed and put legislation forward that the new ministry will have a single minister that will require the cross community support of the assembly. If the shinners put somebody forward unionists can just veto it and fails for lack of said cross-communtiy support.

    “SF was never going to agree that they are permanently barred from the post”

    I know that you think SF are the great white knights that will ensure your salvation from British tyranny but unfortunatley they are in a hole and haven’t been digging very successfully. How they must wish the UU’s were still in charge, Trimble would have been watchin the PSNI Goose Stepping by now!

  • kensei

    I know I take a DUP biased view on this site but personally if that is how things transpire then the DUP has played an absolute blinder in making sure the Army Council goes and the Shinners still can’t get their hands on p+j!!

    If SF have bought P&J;with the price of abolishing a body that there is no verifiable way of proving has been abolished, and is unenforceable anyway (what are you going to do, stop Adams and MMG sitting in the same room) then fair play to them.

    Eventually the position on P&J;will be normalised, otherwise there will eventually be another crisis, when both SF and the DUP veto each other and another party refuses to take up the post.

  • Bigger Picture

    “(what are you going to do, stop Adams and MMG sitting in the same room)”

    I thought Adams was never in the IRA?

  • Really?

    Bigger Picture, do you understand the meaning of the word “initially”?

    The ministerial position will be allocated on the same basis as the rest in any new Assembly.

  • earnan

    Is anyone interested in governing and improving life in in Northern Ireland? Or are these two just concerned with symbolic victories/saving face, etc.

    What a shame

  • interested

    There’s getting your excuses in early and then there’s Jim Allister statements:

    “”The hasty arrangement for the IMC to report on the IRA Army Council is patently a choreographed move to ease the implementation of the DUP’s deal with IRA/Sinn Fein over policing and justice.”

    This of course coming from someone who, like the rest of us, used to hold up IMC statements as firm proof of continuing IRA activity (when it was continuing) – however, now that there might even be a remote possibility that the IMC could produce a report which might state that the Army Council has gone then they’re obviously a bunch of liars who couldn’t be trusted to tell you if it was raining outside.

    Now, remind me again – what was Jim Allister’s prime reason, stated at the time he left the DUP, for not supporting Gov’t with SF…..

  • interested

    Really?
    “The ministerial position will be allocated on the same basis as the rest in any new Assembly.”

    And on what factual basis do you state that then? I’m afraid Gerry’s telling porkies to appease the grumbling republicans (minus one after today’s resignation in Dungannon).

    Lets not forget that Gerry confidently told us that Policing & Justice had to be devolved by early 2008….. He’s not always right you know.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Again, it is reasonably simple to see what is going on here. There has been a pact between the DUP and Sinn Fein, which has a sequence of events and a timetable listed in it describing when they will occur. The announcement by Gregory Campbell of the imminent decision on the Maze stadium is part of it, as is this announcement about the IMC. I expect that either the IRA will announce their disbandment, or that the IMC will report that the IRA has effectively ceased to exist.

    While the IMC is obviously a tool used by the British government to secure it’s own objectives, I don’t believe that it will be asked to lie. It will report that the IRA has been inactive as an organization with members using their influence – peacefully of course – to try to dissuade others from using violence.

  • billie-Joe Remarkable

    IMC: Tell us what you want us to say, we’ll deliver whatever you want on tap. As we have done from day one.

  • Matt

    Can anyone tell me the difference between the IRA Army Council and the IRA Texas Holdem Poker Night…or is this just another ‘unionists fall for shinner red herring’ scenario…Bigger Picture,any view?
    If the DUP trade P+J for the army council…a blinder has been played but i would suggest not by the DUP!

  • interested

    Matt
    I heard Donaldson on the radio this evening clearly saying that the Army Council was one of the things the DUP wanted before the devolution of P&J;.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    What way would the technicalities work for the Army Council to dissolve? Can they dissolve themselves? What about the General Convention? It would be no big deal for ‘SF’ to drop them just like they have shed the rest of their republican trappings.I always thought that the final authority for the Republic lay with the Army Council. Anyway we still have the IRB.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Pancho,

    It’s all a bit of a farce. They can say they’re disbanding, but since they don’t formally or officially exist to start with in any kind of legal sense, the whole thing is of questionable value and it certainly does not (in and of itself) guarantee that another group of people can acquire weapons, call themselves the IRA, and start killing people.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    No, no, Comrade. It’s no farce. This may be the last straw for supporters of the Provisional alliance. These people fought long and hard for nearly three decades and if they see the present set-up as a glittering prize – a fair reward for their efforts, then the rest of us must live with it. It is pragmatic,political and may even be right but it is not the republican way.

  • observer

    Mr Allister said he had believed the abolition of the IRA Army Council was always the litmus test of the Republican Movement’s transition to exclusively peaceful and democratic means.

    He said if Sinn Fein believed the IRA was truly and irreversibly committed to exclusively peaceful means, there was no need for an Army Council.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/politics/article2396828.ece

  • Paddy O’Neill

    “What way would the technicalities work for the Army Council to dissolve? Can they dissolve themselves? What about the General Convention? It would be no big deal for ‘SF’ to drop them just like they have shed the rest of their republican trappings.I always thought that the final authority for the Republic lay with the Army Council. Anyway we still have the IRB.”

    The Army Council (or members of it) can stand down at anytime they wish. The Army Executive is responsible for maintaining the organisation and making sure the Army Council adheres to the Green Book. The Executive elected the Army Council in the first place and can dissolve it or reconstitute it at any time in the future should it so wish. Final authority as you put it rests with the General Convention and one of these would be required to elect a new Executive. Unionists have missed the ball on the old Army Council bogeyman I’m afraid.

  • POL

    I say tell the dup to feck off until the ulster resistance have decommissioned and disbanded.

    Seriously though what next…Army council disbands then the dupers say seamus round the corner in yonder pub has to decommission his mind set.

    Shinners need to stand up to these pillocks and quit the pandering. What has unionism done to convince the other side that they are in this, and are serious about a shared future for all.

  • JonnyB

    “I say tell the dup to feck off until the ulster resistance have decommissioned and disbanded.

    Seriously though what next…Army council disbands then the dupers say seamus round the corner in yonder pub has to decommission his mind set. ”
    ———–

    Once again nationalists reveal their true selves, gurning because they are being forced to remove their terrorist structures.

    Until they can get it into their head they cant kill prods any more then policing and justice should stay at westminster

  • POL

    Once again nationalists reveal their true selves, gurning because they are being forced to remove their terrorist structures.

    Until they can get it into their head they cant kill prods any more then policing and justice should stay at westminster
    Posted by JonnyB on Aug 07, 2008 @ 01:01 AM

    LOL no jonny missed the point completely didnt you. try answering the question…what has unionism done to convince nationalists. And as for killing prods..dont need to, them undecommissioned loyalists are doing a damn fine job themselves.

  • RepublicanStones

    No doubt the Wagoneers are at this very minute hunched over a smelting pot constructing a new set of hoops for republicans to jump through. One only has to remember Molyneaux’s infamous quip about the IRA ceasefire…

    “This (the ceasefire) is the worst thing that has ever happened to us.”

    Sums up the mentality perfectly !

  • Kevin

    Is anyone interested in governing and improving life in in
    Northern Ireland?

    No.

    Or are these two just concerned with symbolic victories/saving face, etc.

    Yes.

    SATSQ.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Pancho,

    They fought long and hard for 30 years against the express wishes of the Irish people. It may have been the republican way, but it was illegal and wrong, and most Irish people would happily exchange it in favour of better relations with unionists.

    The real prize that must come from the political process here is not reunification, or strengthening of the union, but the fact that people are able to live together and debate those issues sensibly and rationally. Slowly, we’re making progress.

  • steve48

    a nicely choreographed piece of theatre jointly written produced and directed by DUP/SF.

  • Bigger Picture

    Really?

    Do you understand the term legislation? and the law?

    No it will not go under d’hondt that is why they are drawing it up seperatley

  • Blackmouth

    In 2006 at the Preperation for Government Committee the DUP said they wanted a single ministry…That is what has been agreed.

    In 2006 at the Preperation for Government Committee the DUP said the P&J;brief should be seperate from D’Hondt….That is what has been agreed.

    In 2006 (unlike the Ulster Unionist Party) at the Preperation for Government Committee, the DUP said that the devolution of these powers could only occur when there was sufficient community confidence to allow it to happen…That is what has been agreed.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Comrade Stalin,the UK Army is in Iraq against the express wishes of the UK people. Does that make it illegal? To say the fight against the British Army was wrong and illegal needs some clarification. ‘Illegal’ by whose law? Christian law? British law? IRA law? and you’re only wrong if you don’t win.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Go raibh míle maith agat, P O’Neill. Only testing you.

  • Waffler

    Army Council, Army executive. Green book and Proclamation.
    Not much if any of the above can be seen to hold great relevance any more as, republicans who have asked questions as to who really controlled the leadership throughout the later years of the campaign have been told by the same individuals who now claim ownership to others ideas that they don’t even know if an Army Council still exists.( just feck off with awkward questions seems to be the disrespectful rule of the day).
    As for Army Executive structures.
    Any one appointed to same in the last 20 years, have so only under the approval of the few same individuals in order to empower complete control.
    These same individuals who have and continue to translate both the green book and the Proclamation to what suits their and their puppet masters in Whitehall’s agenda of the day.
    Anyone who has not awoken yet to the total contradiction of original republicanism and continue to delude the facts unfolding in front of them should see a shrink.