Gay Pride Parade

Belfast hosted its annual gay pride parade on Saturday with Iris Robinson (predictably enough) coming in for some criticism. As is usual the Free Presbyterian Church had a protest event, its most prominent organiser being Rev David McIlveen. Meanwhile at the parade itself a small number of clergymen took part. Possibly surprisingly PA MacLochlainn, president of the Northern Ireland Gay Rights Association praised Mr. McIlveen: “He loyally and steadfastly preaches the Gospel, but he doesn’t shove it down our throats. We get on well with David.” In reply Mr. McIlveen said “I treat them as human beings, I have debated and conversed with them, but we don’t condone what they do.”

  • billie-Joe Remarkable

    (From our You Couldn’t Make It Up Files): There was a guy on Talkballs last week who actually said: “I’ve no problem with gays but do they have to shove it down our throats? Oh, sorry. Well, you know what I mean…”
    *schoolboy snigger*

  • I have noted (with some pics) the large and welcome turnout of ‘Politicians on parade at Belfast Pride’ at Belfast and Beyond. One positive result of the ‘Iris affair’.

  • Napoleons nose.

    Patrick corrigan was the irish news report a positive result of the ‘Iris affair’. A picture of a guy dropping his trousers and fondling himself in public on a saturday afternoon in front of women and children positive?

  • No, of course not. This individual’s actions were utterly wrong and I personally think he should be banned from taking part in future parades.

  • Napoleons nose.

    Patrick since the irish news has a picture of him perhaps the gay community could call for him to be dealt with under the full rigour of the law for indecent exposure, and a call from the gay community to publicly distance themselves from this individual, who in my opinion should be named and shamed. This can’t be good for gay pr can it? Isn’t it time the gay community started to expunge this type of individual?

    You must admit that no matter what good came from the gay parade this year it will now be overshadowed by the actions of this one individual?

    Surely its time to stop this in your face gay militancy? I know plenty of gays and they are more embarrassed by this than any straight person could ever be?

    Do you think the leaders of the gay community will show leadership in distancing themselves from this?

  • The individual’s behaviour was completely wrong and is condemned outright.

    All parades encounter problems with a very small minority of people behaving inappropriately. Just have a look at the Green and Orange Parades that occur throughout the year across Northern Ireland!

    One of two regrettable incidents should not be allowed to over shadow what was a great day where Northern Ireland yet again moved forwards towards a Shared Society where diversity is celebrated and difference accepted not just tolerated.

  • billie-Joe Remarkable

    “Do you think the leaders of the gay community will show leadership in distancing themselves from this?”

    Yeah! The gayers had better distance themselves right now. I dread to think that anyone with heterosexual tendencies would ever disgrace us by exposing himself, fondling himself, mooning, ogling someone of the opposite sex, whistling at women in the street, shouting abuse at women and coming on strong to women in bars. And each and every time that does happen I will be issuing strongly worded statements of condemnation to distance myself from said actions. FFS!

  • I think it appropriate that there should be a PSNI investigation into this individual’s actions and he should expect an indecency charge to follow. Everyone I know within the local LGBT community would reject this sort of behaviour and I am sure there will be no problem identifying the individual concerned, whether or not he himself is a member of the gay community.

  • Napoleons nose.

    hey billie jo when was the last march to celebrate hertrosexual lifestyles at which someone fondled themselves in public?

    Whether straight or gay doing this is wrong and should be punished under the law. You cannot have one law for everybody else except gays and saying he did it due to the remarks of iris robinson!! Gimmie a break. The guy is responsible for his own behaviour FFS!

    As i tried to point out before you intervened with your silliness. Do the gay community want to be associated with this type of individual and his behaviour?

    Yes or no would suffice.

  • Napoleons nose.

    All parades encounter problems with a very small minority of people behaving inappropriately

    Unfortunately thats a problem with bringing huge numbers of people on to the streets. What if a riot had ensued or some sort of public disorder in light of the controversy leading up to the parade?

    The fact is I bet no one discussed even the fact that to have a parade this year could have led to public disorder, and should have marshalled it much more thoroughly than they did.

    As to the cops wrestling two christian protesters to the ground, yet not getting ahold of this guy before now…….smells of taking a side rather than enforcing the law.

    Bad behaviour like this should not be tolerated, no matter what quarter it emminates from.

  • Napoleon’ Nose: I know you’d probably just like to focus on the idiotic actions of this individual (hopefully, we’ve dealt with that by now – ban him and charge him if possible, in my view), but I would like to know if you welcome the support and presence of politicians from most of our parties at the parade, as outlined in my Amnesty blog? Isn’t this a positive sign for a more inclusive Northern Ireland of the future?

  • rabelais

    Napoleons nose,
    Billie Joe’s point is a sensible one. That someone behaved badly on a public parade in Northern Ireland is just so not news. That this person was gay does not make it any more intereting or newsworthy.

    As Billie Joe points out there a loads of examples of heterosexual people behaving lewdly. You got exactly the reply your muckraking and mischief making deserved.

  • billie-Joe Remarkable

    “Whether straight or gay doing this is wrong and should be punished under the law. You cannot have one law for everybody else except gays and saying he did it due to the remarks of iris robinson!! Gimmie a break.”

    Didn’t see the incident but I get the gist of it. You seem to want a personal letter of apology for the hurt this has clearly caused you. “Idiot (possibly drunk) appears at festival” is hardly news. I’m not sure if you are similarly vocal when bandsmen piss in the street while wearing their uniforms and Orange regalia. And I’m sure there are occasionally examples of poor behaviour at republican rallies, the Rio carnival, NottingHill, the New orleans Mardi Gras and the f***ing Lord Mayor’s show. Happy? Now get over yourself, Iris, we’ve got the point.

  • Liz

    “hey billie jo when was the last march to celebrate hertrosexual lifestyles at which someone fondled themselves in public? ”

    See any stag night in Belfast, Derry or Dublin… Or, for that matter, a selection of backstreets and lanes anywhere on this or the other island. I do hope that the Pride march will not be remembered for this one act. It was a brilliant turnout, probably half the crowd was made up of heterosexuals – mainly very young 16/17 year olds – who were carrying placards e.g. “Our bodies, Our Lives, Our right to decide – Extend the Abortion Act now” that screamed the fact they don’t want to have to grow up to live in the bigoted backwater that the DUP and their poodles in Sinn Fein would want.

  • Napoleons nose.

    but I would like to know if you welcome the support and presence of politicians from most of our parties at the parade, as outlined in my Amnesty blog? Isn’t this a positive sign for a more inclusive Northern Ireland of the future?

    Indeed it is positive. My own nephew is gay in a committed relationship of some twenty years. We frequently stay at a small hotel run by gays when we visit spain, they’re ex-pats and live quite openly there in what is largely a catholic country. they look after us well – whether gay or straight should have no bearing at all. But behaviour like this reinforces prejudices, and gives excuses to others to slap the gay community with.

    Theres should be no running away from it – it should not be dismissed nor made light off – and it needs to be seen to be dealt with openly and for all to see. Otherwise its a stick to beat with……

    rebelais muck raking? mischief making?? o i see mention the bad stuff and its mischief making. Ostrich syndrome? Many people behave lewdly but to do so at a gay parade – are you saying it should be tolerated by gays or straight people? Excuse it? Why should I? If a catholic did it at an orange march would that be ok? Any examples of anyone else doing this at a parade here? Specificially fondling themselves to make a point in front of women and children?

    I wait your example.

  • Napoleons nose.

    See any stag night in Belfast,

    I’m not sure if you are similarly vocal when bandsmen piss in the street while wearing their uniforms and Orange regalia

    I assure if one where to be on the front of the irish news in full view of the public in the middle of the afternoon, it would not be just me who would be vocal………..you’d be leading the way.

    Personal letter of apology? If I’d been there with children a personal letter of apology would not suffice, I’d expect legal action.

  • billie-Joe Remarkable

    If you must be a homophobic, self-righteous arse, could you at least be coherent?

    I mean, what is this: “rebelais muck raking? mischief making?? o i see mention the bad stuff and its mischief making. Ostrich syndrome? Many people behave lewdly but to do so at a gay parade – are you saying it should be tolerated by gays or straight people? Excuse it? Why should I? If a catholic did it at an orange march would that be ok? Any examples of anyone else doing this at a parade here? Specificially fondling themselves to make a point in front of women and children?”

    You’ve made your point and it’s been answered several times. Next!

  • Napoleons nose.

    You’ve made your point and it’s been answered several times. Next!

    Mick Fealty die and leave you in charge? lol.

    I’ll continue to make it until a mod or mick tells me to stop.

    (pst since you like to be in charge how about you hit the tip jar?)

  • Napoleons nose.

    You’ve made your point and it’s been answered several times. Next!

    Any examples of anyone else doing this at a parade here? Specificially fondling themselves to make a point in front of women and children

    Still waiting on an example? O there is none?

  • rabelais

    NN,

    Read Liz’s post above. We live in a society were very often lewd, heterosexual conduct goes unremarked upon. On the other hand the public exhibition of any type of gay intimacy, affection or sexuality is likely to draw the strongest and sometimes violent protests. Nobody here has condoned the behaviour of the dickhead who misbehaved at the Pride march. But most of us have treated it in the same way that we treat equivalent acts of bawdy, straight behaviour – we ignore it and move on. That’s parity.

    You want examples of outrageous behaviour on other parades. How long have you got? Check back through some of the threads here and you’ll encounter hundreds of accounts of Orange and Green festival goers behaving in a low manner. I have my own memories and accounts but I choose not to repeat them because to be frank NN my own public behaviour hasn’t always been outstanding and while I am not proud of it I am grateful that those who witnessed it didn’t make a big deal out of it but recognised it for the high-spirited, idiocy it was.

    There is stuff in your previous post about your family members who are gay and that you stay in a gay guest house but Napoleon as long as you can write something like this – ‘Surely its time to stop this in your face gay militancy?’ – its difficult to see you as anything other than just another homophobe.

  • Napoleons nose.

    rebelais I don’t care how anyone views me, what I do care about is expressing my opinions thus I come to slugger o’toole, and have done for a very long time. If you think this was a case of high spirits then God help us all. Sure I’ve seen bawdy and lewd behaviour and remarked on it many times, here. In the threads you speak of. Once it comes out into the public domain then anyone can comment on it. Whether or not you feel I’ve made a big deal of it is not my concern. Society should be protected from this sort of behaviour.

    Why is it when Iris Robinsons, whose remarks i condemn, can be investigated and reported to the police for REMARKS yet this fondling of privates in public is ‘high jinks’.
    Amazing.

  • Turgon

    I had hoped we might have a discussion about the polite manner in which Messrs. McIlveen and MacLochlainn commented on one another.

    Oh well that was a bit naive was not it?

  • rabelais

    NN,
    You write:

    rebelais I don’t care how anyone views me, what I do care about is expressing my opinions thus I come to slugger o’toole, and have done for a very long time.

    Then you’re pretty much just like everybody else on here.

    Secondly, if you can’t see the significant difference between Iris Robinson MLA, MP’s remarks about homosexuality and some idiot fondling himself in public then I can’t help you. But if the police did decide to prosecute this prat for indecent exposure then fine. That’s the law. We all have to live by it. Oh, no, wait: not if we’re part of a sufficently large enough and threatening parade that the police decide that it would put the public at greater risk to intervene.

    —“Society should be protected from this sort of behaviour.”—

    I’m sure society will recover. It’s scene worse. Face it NN you want to be outraged. You want to be offended and if it wasn’t this it would be something else.

    But why don’t you save your outrage for something worth spending it on, like world hunger or the decimation of the rain forests because frankly some bloke fondling his tackle in public in Belfast is just small beer.

  • rabelais

    ” had hoped we might have a discussion about the polite manner in which Messrs. McIlveen and MacLochlainn commented on one another.

    Oh well that was a bit naive was not it?”

    Posted by Turgon on Aug 04, 2008 @ 01:08 PM

    He started it…. 😉

  • Damien Okado-Gough

    Just to be sure. Has it been established that the person who exposed himself is gay? Was he in costume even, or just plainly dressed? Could he be identified in any way as being a participant in the event or just a by-stander?

  • Damien Okado-Gough

    No need to reply. Just read the article.

  • It was Sammy McNally what done it

    Turgon,

    yes it is a fairly remarkable exchange. You wonder if David McIlveen is going to be appear to so reasonable why he feels the need to protest – but not sure whether the protest is about what the gays get up to or the fact that they have a march.

    Cant help remarking on the strange tactics of the protesters who turned their backs on the passing parade therby leaving themselves open to eternal damnation should their vulnerability be taken advantage of. Sorry couln’t help myself.

  • POL

    wrong, wrong, wrong.I have no problem with gay pride, in fact i think it brings colour to a dreary saturday afternoon. However if someone does this then its public indecency and needs to be addressed.

    Iris is a homophobe and her remarks were hateful, however this will just give her more ammunition

  • Napoleons nose.

    But why don’t you save your outrage for something worth spending it on, like world hunger or the decimation of the rain forests because frankly some bloke fondling his tackle in public in Belfast is just small beer.

    Why don’t you allow me to judge what outrages me? Indecency in public in front of children is outrageous and if you can’t see it frankly thats up to you.

    Oh, no, wait: not if we’re part of a sufficently large enough and threatening parade that the police decide that it would put the public at greater risk to intervene.

    You keep condoning it, anything to excuse it. Fact is fact he broke the law and ought to be charged. He got caught with his trousers down liteally.

  • fair_deal

    PC

    What does the campaign postcard say?

  • rabelais

    “You keep condoning it, anything to excuse it. Fact is fact he broke the law and ought to be charged.”

    No I don’t condone it. From a previous post NN, just to clarify I said:

    Nobody here has condoned the behaviour of the dickhead who misbehaved at the Pride march. But most of us have treated it in the same way that we treat equivalent acts of bawdy, straight behaviour – we ignore it and move on.

    I just don’t see this as a big deal. You clearly do. We’re clearly not going to change each others minds. Just ask yourself would you be as quick to your keyboard if it was a streaker at a football match or a woman topless on a beach?

  • Napoleons nose.

    Just ask yourself would you be as quick to your keyboard if it was a streaker at a football match or a woman topless on a beach?

    This isn’t about nudity it’s about fondling your privates in public to make a point.

  • rabelais

    Turgon

    The exchange between PA MacLochlainn and MvIlveen probably needs decoding. I suggest this

    – PA MacLochlainn, president of the Northern Ireland Gay Rights Association praised Mr. McIlveen: “He loyally and steadfastly preaches the Gospel, but he doesn’t shove it down our throats. We get on well with David.”

    Translates into – McIlveen’s protesting has had no impact upon us and in attempt to infuriate him we will pretend that we actually quite like him.

    In reply Mr. McIlveen said “I treat them as human beings, I have debated and conversed with them, but we don’t condone what they do.”

    This means – I will extend the bare minimum of politeness to these people.

    It all amounts to a veneer civility but it isn’t close to understanding.

  • rabelais

    “This isn’t about nudity it’s about fondling your privates in public to make a point.”

    Well, I don’t know that fondling your privates in public (or anyone elses for that matter) is a very good way of making a point. Which is why a referre to this bloke as dickhead and a prat. I’m sure there were people on the demonstration who made their point much more articulately than he did. If the police choose to pursue this matter (and let’s face it, it wouldn’t be hard since the guys photo was taken in the act) then fair enough. That’s the law. If we all fondled our nuts in public, well all hell could ensue. On the other hand, if the police feel that this was a rather foolish, isolated incident and that no great public harm has been done, therefore best not to waste time and money pushing this through the courts, well I could understand that.

    Still, if there were any young people or children who witnessed this fondling and perhaps need help coming to terms with it (because there parents are perhaps such imbeciles and can’t explain or put this lewd act into some sort of context for their offspring) then maybe we can set up a telephone helpline; or send affect children to therapy; make some public information films for disemination around schools likely affect by this abhorent act.

    On the other hand, we could all wise the fuck up.

  • Traditional_Unionist

    one has to wonder how the parades comission has never decided to put restrictions on this parade. last year we have the “jesus is a fag” poster, then this year we have a parader exposing himself infront of woman and children, and not for the first time

    With the contraverseys about parades in this country, how on earth has this parade never had any restrictions placed on it by the parades commission for their appauling behavour?

  • Napoleons nose.

    Still, if there were any young people or children who witnessed this fondling and perhaps need help coming to terms with it (because there parents are perhaps such imbeciles and can’t explain or put this lewd act into some sort of context for their offspring) then maybe we can set up a telephone helpline; or send affect children to therapy; make some public information films for disemination around schools likely affect by this abhorent act.

    Thats a great idea and ofcourse at no expense to the tax payer, it should be funded entirely by the gay community if this man is found to be from that community and since it was the gay community who called people on to the streets and didn’t marshall their parade strictly enough.

    Was this event publicly sponsored, then perhaps if thatis the case public funding should be withdrawn and restrictions imposed to prevent this from happening again.

    It’s gay feet on our street not someone fondling their nuts the tax payer coughs up for.

  • rabelais

    “With the contraverseys about parades in this country, how on earth has this parade never had any restrictions placed on it by the parades commission for their appauling behavour?”

    TU,
    Many have asked them same question of Orange parades (and republican demonstrations – see Dunclug thread). For my part, I can tolerate the plebian behaviour of my loyalist neighbours. I can be a bit of a plebian myself given the opportunity.

    Napoleon’s Nose,
    You still here, Ssshhh now and away and keep an eye out your window in case some passer-by of questionable sexuality scratches his arse in front of your garden gnomes.

  • Mark Simpson

    Traditional_Unionist:

    I didn’t see the incident described, but it’s clear that it was unacceptable.

    However. Looking at the parade as a whole, when was the last time you saw an Orange parade pass through any town/city centre with no hoards of drunk followers carrying bags of booze from the nearest off licence? Was there any trouble afterwards? What restrictions do you suggest other than suggesting them for the sake of it?

    It was great to see so many people out and about enjoying the parade and the gathering in Custom House Square afterwards. I saw families enjoying the music and watching the parade pass by in Royal Avenue. I saw people of all ages, colours, religions (or none) and nationalities smiling and laughing. And that’s what it’s about.

    (One note for future reference for organisers – need more bins in Custom House Square!).

  • Traditional_Unionist

    Mark Simpson,

    restrictions can go from having the parade route cut shorter to limiting the numbers allowed to parade

    This parade should be treated like any other parade, and that is that if there is constant misbehavour then there is a punishment handed to the organisers and restrictions on the next parade.

    I am also amazed at the lack of local media coverage of this incident. one wonders had it have been an orangeman doing this would the media would have been so quiet…..

  • Mark Simpson

    But it’s a traditional route.

    ;o)

    Fascinating to see someone who would no doubt be opposed to restrictions on Orange parades being in favour of restrictions on any parade that isn’t Orange.

    But then we know you’re just opposed to this parade full stop and are glad of a small stick to try and beat people with. I’m just sorry that someone gave you such ammunition and hope they’re not allowed to parade next time.

    The protestors against the parade said there would be more people protesting than in previous years. This wasn’t the case as far as I could see. Why was this?

  • Traditional_Unionist

    Mark Simpson,

    I am simply asking for fairness regarding parading issues

    The Orange Order continuely gets re routed and restrictions put on their parades because they are apparantly “provocative” and “offensive” to some.

    surely then someone exposing himself infront of children and women is very provocative and offensive and this parade should now therefore face restrictions?

  • Napoleons nose.

    I saw people of all ages, colours, religions (or none)

    Mark how do you know there were people there of all religions and none. I read a catholic priest was jostled, and this lewd behaviour was outside St annes cathederal,(lest we over look that fact) also two christian protesters were wrestled the ground to keep them away from removing an effigy of iris robinson. Is this how gays love christians?

    I am also amazed at the lack of local media coverage of this incident.

    O i saw plenty of coverage of the sdlp being involved. Unless they distance themselves from this offensive stuff and condemn it as they would any other they could be looking at at least a few lesser votes including mine.

    REbelais if they are scratching their arse outside my window as long as its through their clothes there’ll be no problem. If they do it with their trousers around their ankles it will be a quick snap of a pic on a mobile phone and down to the local cop shop.

  • BfB

    A bunch of Catholic hating perverts, supported by a herd of man hating baby killers. Liberal Democrats everyone. Bye bye to civilized Belfast, hello San Francisco with a lilt.
    tsk tsk

  • rabelais

    …Catholic priests jostled…Christians wrestled to the ground….a man fondles himself in from of the wimin and childer…

    The charge sheet just keeps on growing. If I were you Naps Nose, and was determined to see a conviction, I’d be straight down the cop-shop and making a formal complaint.

    On the other hand, it’s probably just as satisfying having a gurn on Slugger. God knows it works for me.

  • Mark Simpson

    I invite anyone to join me at the junction of Bedford Street and Ormeau Avenue next twelfth of July and I’ll show you dozens of men exposing themselves to women and children while having a pee in Linenhall St West and then rejoining the parade.

    As to how I know I saw people from many religions; are you suggesting that everyone watching in Royal Avenue was of a single or no religion? That’d be a ridiculous assertion, given that it included staff from the shops in the street, and indeed many particpants from the Milk Cup who happened to be in the city centre.

    I know it might be a strange thing for some people (dare I say tradtionalists?) here to understand, but I’m a unionist. A gay one. Who has gay friends who are in the Orange Order (and no I don’t much understand that myself).

  • Napoleons nose.

    Well if it works for you???????

    If I’d been there and witnessed this the charge would have been made at the time. No problem…..

    Is your gurn over?????

  • Napoleons nose.

    As to how I know I saw people from many religions; are you suggesting that everyone watching in Royal Avenue was of a single or no religion? That’d be a ridiculous assertion, given that it included staff from the shops in the street, and indeed many particpants from the Milk Cup who happened to be in the city centre.

    But Mark they were not at the parade, they were in the city centre as the parade passed?? Were they not. I ask you again in light of this…

    It was great to see so many people out and about enjoying the parade and the gathering in Custom House Square afterwards. I saw families enjoying the music and watching the parade pass by in Royal Avenue. I saw people of all ages, colours, religions (or none) and nationalities smiling and laughing. And that’s what it’s about.

    Did all the people (shop assistants, and those from the milk cup actually join you in customs house square, and how exactly do you know the religious affiliation of the people in customs house sq????

    Was the catholic priest enjoying the parade or just in the city centre when he was jostled. Did they see a dog collar and go for it like pavlov’s dog without thinking. I wonder how he got singled out…..he was hardly protesting with the FP’s was he? hmmm….

  • Greenflag

    It would appear that Protestant gays and RC gays have few problems in marching together . This is a bad omen for future community relations . I mean if the heterosexual communities have their separate ‘macho ‘ July 12 th and St Patrick’s Day annual rituals why don’t the Gays split into the usual pattern and have two parades one for the Orange Gays and one for the Green Gays ? Then instead of poor McIlveen having to protest you could have the Orange gays throwing bricks and protesting at the Green faggots at the one parade and the Green Gays returning the compliments to the Orange maggots on their day.

    Why can’t these pinkers not be like all the ‘normal ‘ people in Belfast and be cured of their tendency to not divvy up as per the normal sectarian needs of NI society .

    I tell this will all come to a bad end 🙂

  • Mark Simpson

    Napolean’s Nose…

    Are you seriously suggesting that everyone in Custom House Square was of a single or no religion? (Perhaps if they were all of a religion not of your own it helps you justify your dislike of them, but I’m sorry to say this is not likely to be the case, is it?).

    The people I saw in the city centre standing at the side of the roads watching the parade go by certainly didn’t look as if they were being offended. They looked as if they were enjoying themselves.

    Obviously now in the light of this interrogation of the facts I should have got Gallup out to do a scientific poll. I’m sorry, I didn’t, and I can only tell you what I saw and the impression I got.

    Were you there? Did you see people being offended?

    Don’t have nightmares etc etc…

  • rabelais

    “Is your gurn over?????”

    Feck, no NN. With such grist to my mill I could go on forever.

    Napoleon,
    Despite your early attempts to appear non-bigoted in this matter the language you have used consistently indicates your deep unease with any public display of homosexuality. Your reference to what you consider as in your face gay militancy and to Pavlov dog-like unthinking behaviour reveals someone who considers homosexuality as a sort uncontrollable, deviant libidinous condition. It isn’t and the crass behaviour of one participant in Pride does not reflect generally on the ‘whole gay community’. It would also be outrageous if next year Pride was re-routed or restricted because of this, especially given the context of the seemingly indecent act happened, which included the remarks of Iris Robinson when she referred to homosexuals as abominations.

    If you want to contribute something useful here, something which might prevent such a lewd display in the future you could work to make Northern Ireland less of a cold house for gays and lesbians. I’m sure if they felt more secure here, their sexuality accepted, then such demonstrative behaviour wouldn’t have happened.

    Remember Pride exists precisely because gay and lesbians feel vulnerable in public. By coming together in a parade through Belfast it is rare occasion when they assert their inalienable right to that space; a space which they more routinely suffer verbal and physical abuse in Northern Ireland.

    Being exposed to someone fondling themeselves is not the worse thing that could happen to you in public, ask any of the gay and lesbian men and women who have been cursed at, spat at and beaten up in the town centres of NI.

  • cynic

    Reading the indignation above, has anyone actually complained.

    More importantly, has anyone so outraged ever walked through Dublin Road and Shaftsbury Square at around 1 am? i fear you might see a little more there (or should that be a lot more?)

  • rabelais

    Well, cynic, the photographic evidence is there. The Irish News has it. But I suspect that in true Norn Iron tradition the greater satisfaction is to be had about taking offence at what is a pretty minor incident.

    And as you point out, if lewd behaviour really offends some of these people, then Dublin Road and Shaftsbury Square at around 1am, should give them plenty to get inflammed about

  • Napoleons nose.

    Despite your early attempts to appear non-bigoted in this matter the language you have used consistently indicates your deep unease with any public display of homosexuality

    Since when did a public display of homosexuality become someone futtering with his balls?

    Your reference to what you consider as in your face gay militancy and to Pavlov dog-like unthinking behaviour reveals someone who considers homosexuality as a sort uncontrollable, deviant libidinous condition.

    Are you claiming that homosexuality involves jostling priests? my remark was aimed at the jostlers in the crowd whether they were gay or not.

    It would also be outrageous if next year Pride was re-routed or restricted because of this, especially given the context of the seemingly indecent act happened, which included the remarks of Iris Robinson when she referred to homosexuals as abominations

    If it were the first time maybe, but as someone else pointed out we had similar stuff last year aimed at christians. jesus is a fag…remember?

    If you want to contribute something useful here, something which might prevent such a lewd display in the future you could work to make Northern Ireland less of a cold house for gays and lesbians. I’m sure if they felt more secure here, their sexuality accepted, then such demonstrative behaviour wouldn’t have happened.

    When I want a lecture I’ll go to church. You are doing what to help ??????zzzzzzzzzz

    Remember Pride exists precisely because gay and lesbians feel vulnerable in public.
    Therefore all vulnerable groups should have parades that have people in them futtering with their balls in public to get their message accross?

    a space which they more routinely suffer verbal and physical abuse in Northern Ireland.

    Like they’re the only ppl who suffer abuse in NI??? Stop whinging FFS!

    Being exposed to someone fondling themeselves is not the worse thing that could happen to you in public, ask any of the gay and lesbian men and women who have been cursed at, spat at and beaten up in the town centres of NI.

    So all the wrongs aimed at the gay community make this lewd act ok?? Wrong is wrong, get over it .

  • Napoleons nose.

    1 am?

    one am is not the middle of the afternoon in public view of families out shopping.

  • POL

    This parade should be treated like any other parade, and that is that if there is constant misbehavour then there is a punishment handed to the organisers and restrictions on the next parade.

    nothing to fear there then.

  • POL

    surely then someone exposing himself infront of children and women is very provocative and offensive and this parade should now therefore face restrictions?
    Posted by Traditional_Unionist on Aug 04, 2008 @ 03:41 PM

    seemed to be okay at Holy cross.

  • Mark Simpson

    People have been exposing and relieving themselves in Linenhall Street West on the 12th July in the middle of the afternoon in public view for years. Hasn’t led to any calls for restrictions on the parade though.

    As far as I can see from the picture he’s only showing them his arse, I thought he was going full frontal from the kerfuffle going on here.

    He shouldn’t have done it, but hey, we all have arses and really don’t need to be offended by them, do we? Well, fat ones maybe.

    Or are people just looking for things to be offended by? Isn’t that the argument often used to counter opposition by residents groups in relation to loyal order parades?

    As greenflag points out, it does feel like some people are very confused by all this. It doesn’t fit into the normal orange/green arguments and lines, yet people seem to be suggesting that religion is the cause of some sort of divide. It isn’t. Better start thinking outside the old boxes guys.

  • TAFKABO

    Whether straight or gay doing this is wrong and should be punished under the law. You cannot have one law for everybody else except gays and saying he did it due to the remarks of iris robinson!! Gimmie a break. The guy is responsible for his own behaviour FFS!

    Yep, you said it, the guy is responsible for his own behaviour, behaviour which has been roundly condemnded by every other supporter of the parade wh has spoken here.
    So, what exactly is your problem?

    By the way over the decades, I’ve seen dozens of incidents of heterosexuals exposing themselves and even having sex, in public. I confess that on a coule of occasions I’ve been in a less than decent state after a few drinks.
    I once saw some female giving hand relief to a guy in a public bar.

    Bloody straights, they shouldn’t be allowed out, don’t you agree?

  • billie-Joe Remarkable

    “Mick Fealty die and leave you in charge? lol.”

    Not at all. I don’t need or seek any permission for what I say. Still, homophobic? How’s that working out for you?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    what are gays favourite vegetables?

    turnup and letus

  • Mark Simpson

    If ever there was a time and a place for virtual tumbleweed, this is it.

  • Napoleons nose.

    Taf thats all been answered before.

    billie jo unremarkable is that all you got?

    once saw some female giving hand relief to a guy in a public bar Was it billed as a family event ??

    Bloody straights, they shouldn’t be allowed out, don’t you agree?

    Yeah!! I do wholeheartedly agree.

  • POL

    As far as I can see from the picture he’s only showing them his arse, I thought he was going full frontal from the kerfuffle going on here.

    A bare arse ! From the posts on here i thought he was swinging the tackle, in a 5 finger knuckle salute.

    However indencent behaviour is just that. Know a guy who mooned at the cops during one drunken episode, and he`s waiting for a date. The cops are the only witness, and he will be convicted. This balloon on saturday done it in full view of everyone plus the media.

    Hope u had a good day though.

  • Napoleons nose.

    Or are people just looking for things to be offended by?

    They didn’t have to look far mark it was given on a plate. Why didn’t the organisers caution the crowd or marshall it more strictly? In light of the furore that had gone on leading up to this years parade. Were they really that simple minded that they thought no one would step out of line after Iris? Didn’t they engage their brains at all before bringing large numbers on to the street. Do they really expect the general public to support their parade when behaviour like this is described as high jinks or youthful carry on. It’s not, its public indecency- end off.

    A little respect for the tax paying public at least. Makes me glad to be a worker.

  • Waffler

    And who said we`re not behind the times.
    All the wholaha for one guy forgetting to wear his thong.

  • Mark Simpson

    As far as I can tell it happened at the start of the parade. Not in Royal Avenue. It happened in front of some of the religious protesters. I doubt anyone who saw what happened was there by accident.

    It shouldn’t have happened.

    You clearly weren’t there as you’d have been offended yourself, however if you had been you would have seen MANY marshalls accompanying the parade. It is a pity that this incident wasn’t seen/acted upon by a marshall. But there you go.

    What exactly are you looking for here? I’ve said it shouldn’t have happened but that doesn’t appear to be enough for you.

    You claim you want all types of parade to be treated equally, so presumably that means when ONE single arsehole appears at any other parade you’ll make as much noise?

    I’m off to buy earplugs.

  • Waffler

    TAF
    Any chance for the name of that bar and is there a cover charge.

  • TAFKABO

    Showing your arse IS high jinks, it’s not indecent.
    Since when is mooning an act pf depravity?
    So one guy dropped his breeks and bared his arse at some anti gay fundmentalists?
    That’s the worst that happened?
    Napoleon’s Nose, you really are going out of your way to be offended, aren’t you?

  • TAFKABO

    Waffler.

    The name escapes me at the moment, it’s just round the corner from the Northern Bank at the City hall, begins with a “W”, or at least it did.
    It was the run up to Christmas, loads of after works drinking going on.
    A crowd of us were sitting at one table when someone pointed out that across the bar some girl was clearly giving a happy ending to the guy sat beside her.
    We all watched until she had finished then we gave them both a round of applause.

  • Waffler

    TAF
    I`ll let u know if its still up to SCRATCH just after SCRATCHMAS.
    CHEERS.
    By the way I hear the PIG & CHICKEN club may be opening again in Temple Patrick (happy nights)

  • Pancho’s Horse

    What have they got to be proud of? As they say down the country – a bundle of gether ups. How do you explain this aberrant rabble to children in your company? They are beasts on two legs and behave as such.It’s enough to make a dog throw up.

  • Different Drummer

    Yes you’d expect people on a Saturday to behave themselves. I mean just because a good number of men and women the length and breath of the country show their behinds to other members of the populace and the the police doesn’t mean that people who call themselves ‘minorities’ should imitate them…..

  • Kevin

    Bye bye to civilized Belfast, hello San Francisco with a lilt.
    tsk tsk

    If only… I take it you’ve never been to San Francisco.

  • Moochin Photoman

    Didn’t see the incident or the photograph which was obviously wrong.
    Pride has been getting bigger and bigger each year and the vibrancy that it brings to the city centre is much needed.
    The response from ordinary punters is interesting as generally it brings a smile to their faces and you see them getting in to the groove and sense of fun. This year i do think because of Iris’s comments people were more supportive in particular outside City Hall there was a much bigger crowd supporting the parade.
    As for the Free P’s demonstration i don’t think it was any bigger than previous years
    The zealots outside city hall were behind safety barriers(at their own request apparently) and again their contingent didn’t seem any bigger than previous years. One woman i spoke to tried to tell me that they were afraid of being attacked as they had in London and Birmingham.I told her that this is Belfast and she shouldn’t worry. The same woman tried to tell me that the unnatural sexual practices of the hom o sexuals (her pronounciaton) caused Hepatitis, i countered by saying that was actually to do with needle sharing and cross infection, she agreed telling me she was a nurse but that it was the gays fault…..thats when i walked away.
    The other point i would make was that the police were in customs house square before the parade asking people to unfurl banners to check their content. Now….is it too much of a stretch to think that perhaps a phone call might have been made to ensure effigies and references to Iris and her stupid comments wouldn’t embarrass the party anymore?
    And if someone needs me to i can link to a photo of men pissing in the street during a parade and one from last week with a young buck with his dick out!! It happens……get over it.
    See you at next years pride……its a blast

  • rabelais

    Napoleon,
    You say that gays are not the only people who suffer abuse in NI and advise me to “Stop whinging FFS!”

    You’re right gays are not the only people who suffer verbal and physical abuse because of some or other percieved difference in certain contexts: Let’s make a list:
    Catholcs, Protestants, women, disabled people, black people, immigrants etc. I presume then you think that they too should stop whinging in the aftermath of an assault because, heh, that’s just how things are in Northern Ireland.

    Somehow you think it is OK to come onto Slugger giving off about the offence caused by some prat flashing his arse but your advice to me when I highlight the physical and verbal abuse suffered by homosexuals in public is to tell me to ‘stop whinging’. This is the lowest and most incidiously dangerous form of bigotry. The people who subscribe to it are the sorts of arses that Northern Ireland is exposed to too often.

  • William Barton

    Re posts 4, 8 and 11 by Patrick Corrigan: it is curious to see Amnesty advocating the indefinite curtailment of a person’s rights to freedom of expression and association and his being branded as a criminal, solely on the basis of a single photograph and wild conjecture. Has this person been found guilty after due process of law? Can we be sure the photograph has not been altered (Photoshop could do the trick in a matter of seconds)? Have we heard the individual’s version of events? He may have a defence – unlikely I agree, but once we start excluding a person’s right to put their version of events in a case we see as straightforward, where does one draw the line?

    Very disappointing overreaction from someone who should know better and who never misses an opportunity to preach to others.

  • Comrade Stalin

    People getting their bits out in public is a problem, but not a massive one. I appreciate that the LGBT community want to disassociate themselves from this, but at the same time I am not completely sure if the “full force of the law” is appropriate. At least once every year (whenever the sun comes out) some topless sunbathing does occur at City Hall, and the police are usually there pretty swiftly to tell whoever it is to cover up. And if you go to Shaftesbury Square or up Botanic Ave on a Fri/Sat night, you’ll see plenty of people urinating at convenient places, often in full view. The police don’t always go all the way.

    There are one or two idiots every year (anyone remember “Jesus is a fag” ?) and the LGBT community are usually pretty successful at disowning them. It’s irresponsible for the media to publish a picture like that in a way that implies it was/is representative of the parade, but what else do you expect ?

    On the comment about Belfast becoming San Francisco, I say, bring it on. San Francisco is a fantastic city, full of culture, and diversity of all kinds as well as being a the core of the most prosperous region of the United States, and a centre academic excellence. Americans clearly think so too, and that is why it is so expensive to live there. If I thought Belfast could become one-tenth of the city San Francisco is, I’d be happy for our future.

  • William (76), reread my comments carefully. I think it proper that the incident should be investigated and, if appropriate, he should be charged with the relevant offence. Last time I checked there wasn’t an offence of idiocy, so I think the individual concerned might expect a charge of indecency instead.

    Just normal law and order, the regular due process of law, including hearing his defence and any mitigating circumstances – no overreaction here. As for his future participation in Pride parades – that’s a matter for himself and/or the Pride organisers, but as I said, personally I would ban him, presuming he is found to have breached the standards of behaviour expected of participants.

    I will be the first in line to defend freedom of expression and association, but they are not absolute rights and they must be balanced against others’ rights including, in this case, those of spectators or counter-protestors. I think this individual has overstepped that line.

    As I tried to make the point in my comments (2, 11), this was one incident by one individual and should not be allowed to overshadow an important event which was marked by the biggest ever political turnout at Belfast Pride (I’ve been participating in the parade for the last 11 years). That does not mean the incident should not be dealt with.

  • rabelais

    Patrick,
    As you say, the person who flashed their bum at homophobes during Pride could be subject to the normal process of the law. But it would be remarkable if the police choose to pursue this relatively minor offence.

    Those of us who support Pride have, for understandable reasons I feel been a little defensive here and quick to condemn the individual who exposed themselves. I myself referred to him as a prat and an idiot. I assume most of us have been concerned that the good name of Pride shouldn’t be besmirched by one incident or worried perhaps that the respectability of the parade would be undermined by a single flasher and so we have refused to condone his actions.

    However the people who claim that they have been offended by this act have an agenda beyond the due process of law being brought down on a flasher. They want to discredit Pride and place restrictions on it. What they object to, as one poster here put it, is in your face gay militancy. I don’t think we should give an inch to the ‘offended’ and I think we should be prepared to defend the actions of the man who flashed his arse at the homophobes. I regret not condoning his actions earlier and I regret calling him a prat and an idiot. What he did stands in a tradition of humorous, non-violent and carnivalesque protest. Fair play to him.

  • William Barton

    Patrick Corrigan @ 3 on this page

    I have reread your comments. The difficulty remains that your personal view cannot be distinguished from your expression of views in your capacity as Head of Amnesty in NI. In your previous comments you make no reference to due process; you state that he should be banned. Iris Robinson claims to have been speaking in a personal capacity when she made her disgraceful homophobic comments. These things work both ways.

  • Amnesty International used to focus on Prisoners of Conscience (except those in the so called UK). Now, they are interested in persecuted buggers. So, if you languish in a Myanmar jail or a Chinese reeducation camp, Amnesty International don’t care about you unless you are banged up for buggery.
    It is sad to see the the selfish, the diseased and the money makers grab the high public ground.

  • Mark Simpson

    What’s so offensive about seeing God’s work of creation anyway, albeit a hairy creation in this case?

    Surely everything God created is beautiful and correct, including bums.

    I do like the quote from Ghandi someone posted on the Belfast Telegraph website:

    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

  • Mark Simpson

    Oh, and I should have mentioned, the Advertising Standards Authority are investigating the advert from David McIlveen and co which appeared in the News Letter on Friday.

  • rabelais

    Mark,
    What advertisement is this? I’d like to see it. Is it available on the web?

  • DK

    I’ve heard that the christian protestors who got “wrestled to the ground” by the police were basically shoving a placard in a float drivers face, causing him to brake and those on the float to fall off. GBH vs. Bare arse.

  • Mark Simpson

    rabelais,

    Don’t think the ad is online but the BT story is on their website today; for some reason I can’t post the link without an error message.

    “The church condemns recent homophobic attacks, but said some attacks may have been “provoked” by a section of the gay community’s “desire to be known for a perverted form of sexuality” and called on followers to continue to protest against them despite these attacks.

    “It is a cause for regret that a section of the community desire to be known for a perverted form of sexuality, which in certain incidences has provoked the unacceptable and totally unjustifiable response of violence.

    “Such a response, however, must not intimidate the church into silence,” the advertisement says.

  • Procrasnow

    Mr Geoffrey Donaldson let slip this morning that Peter Robinson was away on holiday. Does anyone know where, must be London as that is where his wife is supposed to be getting treatment, He wouldn’t have went on holiday alone! would he?

    Has she recovered yet? would she be well enough to apologise to the people of Northern Ireland, proper apology not a paper that could have been written by anyone. I think the people of Northern Ireland deserve it.

  • Alan Maskey

    Poor persecuted homosexuals. Did the watersports and fisgting fraternities have their own banners? Were any of the bearded fisters who dress us as nuns there? Any transexual mistresses or Orange or Green sissies there? Great culture if hyou don’t mind piles.