Statutory duty to appoint the NIWC?

Rena Shepherd has been appointed as the new Parades Commissioner replacing David Burrows (removed following a successful court challenge). Following that debacle, it appears the NIO has returned to form and chosen another appointee with NIWC connections. The statutory duty sets out that the the Parades Commission “as a group are representative of the community in Northern Ireland”, the NI membership of the Parades commission is now 5 females and 1 male. In terms of political activity, two have played a role in the NIWC, one in the Green party and one in the SDLP. It is also probably fair to say that the section of society that are most actively involved in parading are male protestants but a ‘representative’ commission somehow finds it impossible to have a single one.

  • spiritof07

    Point of clarification. Aren’t there two males on the Commission, Roger Poole and Joe Hendron.

  • fair_deal

    spirit

    Hence my choice of the phrase “NI membership”

  • willis

    Bit of special pleading eh!

    Why did they not ask you?

    They could ask me too since I fit the bill, only problem is that my abiding memory of parades is ejecting half a flute band who were using my garden as a toilet.

    “‘ere mister what is your problem? we always do this.”

  • fair_deal

    Willis

    “Bit of special pleading eh!”

    LOL as I’m a member of the OO I’m ineligible.

  • willis

    FD

    It’s a big help if you want to be a Unionist MLA tho’.

  • observer

    It’s a big help if you want to be a Unionist MLA tho’.
    Posted by willis on May 20, 2008 @ 10:43 PM

    Whereas being a member / supporter of the IRA is a big help in being a Nationalist one.

  • Burma Star

    Quangoland would seem to be the state-fund (early) retirement home for electoral rejects.

    Any confirmation that Alex Atwood is planning to follow Patricia Lewsley’s lead and chicken-run into Quangoland before the next assembly elections?

  • Danny O’Connor

    NIWC the new Alliance ?

  • Rapunsel

    Never heard of her and she can’t have been much of a player. Thing is though £19k for 2 days a week? Seems way too generous in my view.

  • Don’t worry, FD, her ‘island of Ireland’ credentials will probably be noted by the DUP-friendly TUV.

  • “she can’t have been much of a player”

    Sometime CEO of Parcel Force .. [pdf file]

  • Big Bird

    She was one of the Business Sector Reps on the Bill of Rights Forum, and i believe the Chamber of Commerce reprentative.

  • Big Bird

    She was one of the Business Sector Reps on the Bill of Rights Forum, and i believe the Chamber of Commerce representative.

  • Very silly post, Fair Deal. I’m sure the PC’s sisterhood have experience of parading – all the way to Victoria Square. Look on the bright side, at least they’ll be able to make traybakes for us Brethren in the Field.

  • Animus

    Yes, only male protestants are affected by parading, that’s why it’s such an un-contentious issue. Having left it to protestant males, no one seemed to get very far (a few beer cans in the front garden hardly counts). Why not let a different group of people try their hand? It could hardly be any worse than letting the OO sort it out themselves.

    And how odd that a politically interested woman should have chosen to get involved with the NIWC – I suppose she could have made tea for members of the DUP, but maybe she was hoping for something more than a supporting role.

    Dry your eyes.

  • fair_deal

    Animus

    “Yes, only male protestants are affected by parading”

    Never said they were.

    “that’s why it’s such an un-contentious issue”

    Never said it wasn’t

    Two misrepresentation and you’ve only got started.

    “Having left it to protestant males, no one seemed to get very far (a few beer cans in the front garden hardly counts). Why not let a different group of people try their hand?”

    Avoidance/unwillingness to address the fundamental point of the unrepresentativeness of the group.

    “And how odd that a politically interested woman should have chosen to get involved with the NIWC”

    Misrepresentation again. No women ever gets involved or gets anywhere in the main parties such as Naomi Long, Arlene Foster, Michelle Gildernew, Maragaret Ritchie, Slyvia Hermon etc

    “I suppose she could have made tea for members of the DUP, but maybe she was hoping for something more than a supporting role. ”

    A bit of stereotyping to finish off.

    Misrepresentation, avoidance and caricaturing but no argument.

  • Damian O’Loan

    I think you will be quite surprised on this count. She was on the BoR Forum and lent support to the Unionist position for the most part.

    My criticism would be that you don’t seem to allow space for multiple identities – a more realistic approach, if nothing else. The aspects of her character you select, or have only been presented with, are not the whole picture.

    Your argument on general misrepresentation on the Commission generally is unsubstantiated in the same way. Without presenting a fuller picture, your problem risks appearing as simply the decisions being unrepresentative of male Protestant Unionism, particularly in light of language like:

    “the section of society that are most actively involved in parading are male protestants”

    I would be more convinced by individual critiques and proof of individual bias, and more comprehensiveness generally.

  • William Houston

    It never ceases to amaze me how it was illegal for David Burrows [incidentally a former OO member] to be ineligible to sit as a member of the Parades Commission, yet it is apparently o.k. for a Sinn Fein / IRA activist, Patricia McBride to be a member of the Victims Commission. Wonder why that is?

    Perhaps Michelle Williamson’s impending Judicial Review will have the ‘Shinner’ quite properly booted off the Victims group.

    One hopes so !!

  • Animus

    Fair_deal – you’ve written a sarky piece, don’t expect a considered argument. I’ve written a sarcastic riposte quite in keeping with the offhand tone of your piece. You don’t present an argument, it’s a rant. The fact that a few women sit with other political parties is neither here nor there – many women did not feel that the main parties adequately represent(ed) their interests. Would you complain if I implied that many OO members are unionist party members? There is a certain overlap, yes? This doesn’t mean that anyone is being disparaged.

    The fact that women are excluded from the Orange Order and that loyalism largely excludes women is a salient point. But does that mean that those who are affected by parading should have no say in it? That seems to be what you are ranting away about. These NIWC should get back in their boxes and talk about something they know about? Charming.

  • fair_deal

    Damian

    “I think you will be quite surprised on this count. She was on the BoR Forum and lent support to the Unionist position for the most part.”

    I am sorry but that is a false impression. Rena Shepherd by my reckoning casted 44 votes/stated opinions at the Bill of Rights Forum. Of the 44, 3 of her votes/opinions were the same as the UUP and DUP position. 22 of her votes/opinions were the sames as the SDLP position and 20 for the SF position.

    The other business rep Neil Faris voted much more often with the Unionist parties.

    “My criticism would be that you don’t seem to allow space for multiple identities – a more realistic approach, if nothing else. The aspects of her character you select, or have only been presented with, are not the whole picture.”

    This is beyond the single individual it is about a persistent pattern in NIO appointments and the representativeness of the six local Commission members as a whole.

    “I would be more convinced by individual critiques and proof of individual bias”

    Well how about the BoRF stuff – 7 times more likely to vote with/same views with nationalist parties than unionist ones?

  • William

    Animus…

    You are totally wrong to state the following:

    “The fact that women are excluded from the Orange Order and that loyalismlargely excludes women is a salient point.”

    There are women within the Orange Order….but in the main they don’t walk in the major marches…short marches to Church services but not e.g. on the 12th July.

    So your ‘fact’ is NOT A FACT

  • fair_deal

    Animus

    ” you’ve written a sarky piece, don’t expect a considered argument. I’ve written a sarcastic riposte quite in keeping with the offhand tone of your piece. You don’t present an argument, it’s a rant.”

    Hmm

    “Rena Shepherd has been appointed as the new Parades Commissioner replacing David Burrows (removed following a successful court challenge). ”

    Factual representation of new appointment

    “Following that debacle, it appears the NIO has returned to form and chosen another appointee with NIWC connections.”

    Reference back to a thread that offers a statistical analysis detailing the over-representation of people involved in the NIWC in key public bodies.

    ” The statutory duty sets out that the the Parades Commission “as a group are representative of the community in Northern Ireland”, the NI membership of the Parades commission is now 5 females and 1 male. In terms of political activity, two have played a role in the NIWC, one in the Green party and one in the SDLP.”

    Three more facts.

    “It is also probably fair to say that the section of society that are most actively involved in parading are male protestants but a ‘representative’ commission somehow finds it impossible to have a single one.”

    A throwaway line I accept but it is still true.

    Sorry no rant or sarky just something you don’t want to address.

    “The fact that a few women sit with other political parties is neither here nor there – many women did not feel that the main parties adequately represent(ed) their interests. ”

    It is when you imply that it was the only vehicle for politically interested women ie “And how odd that a politically interested woman should have chosen to get involved with the NIWC”.

    “Would you complain if I implied that many OO members are unionist party members? There is a certain overlap, yes?”

    I am not absolutely certain of what point you are trying to make, please clarify so i can respond appropriately rather than misinterpret.

    “The fact that women are excluded from the Orange Order and that loyalism largely excludes women is a salient point.”

    While it is undoubted issue, your introduction of it to this debate is to try and take the focus away from this particular example of unrepresentativeness.

  • Animus

    Fair_deal, you feel persecuted okay, fine. I feel sorry for you. One might also claim that old men are overrepresented in the Assembly, and while voters choose, they can only choose from whomever is put forward. A rant can contain facts, the best ones usually do. Otherwise, it’s just a bit mad. Conspiracy theorists aren’t usually totally insane are they?

    Neil Faris didn’t vote with unionist parties, he voted according to his conscience. In fact he didn’t even represent the business community, so that’s a misrepresentation.

    William – thanks for your helpful comment, which you must not have realised referenced marching – which you may have noticed is primarily men.

  • geordie

    protestant or catholic Jew ? which is she?

  • fair_deal

    Animus

    ” In fact he didn’t even represent the business community, so that’s a misrepresentation.”

    The Bill of Rights Forum lists him in the following way on its member page:
    Business Sector Neil Faris CBI
    http://www.billofrightsforum.org/index/forum/forum_members-link

    When you finish issue jumping, misrepresenting, avoiding, caricaturing etc and want to discuss the central point or offer facts to explain how the PC is actually representative let me know. Cheers.

  • William

    NO ANIMUS…..you stated: “The fact that women are excluded from the Orange Order and that loyalism largely excludes women is a salient point.”

    The above point did not ‘reference marching’…..it stated that ‘the OO excluded women’ and that ‘loyalism excluded women’

    Wrong, wrong, wrong…..the OO have many women members and likewise loyalist parties…e.g. Dawn Purvis is the only PUP MLA…in fact there are numerous women in all the Unionist parties.

  • FD, you seem to be getting a lot more steamed up about this issue than the DUP public representatives. Why? I can find no mention of the topic on their website.

  • fcywm02cs3trph3 7k51qpq8f [URL=http://www.739428.com/1027856.html] 9ouyby55ha6g [/URL] 0kkgm5gp5

  • ???

    William Houston said “Sinn Fein / IRA activist, Patricia McBride”

    I didn’t know this. I knew her brother was. Any details of her involvement?

  • fair_deal

    Nevin

    “you seem to be getting a lot more steamed up about this issue than the DUP public representatives. Why?”

    I can only speak for myself but it is because the issues I take an interest in are my choices not the DUP’s and vice versa.

  • Annoyed Grunt!

    Any details of her involvement?

    Ask 7z3w5rnrtc he/she/it makes excellent points!

  • FD, I presumed that you were a Unionist and that you would vote for DUP candidates ahead of the UUP or TUV ones. There seems to be little room for dissenting/independent voices in the DUP so it would appear that my presumption was wrong. I suspect there will be even less room for dissent under the new dispensation.

  • fair_deal

    “FD, I presumed that you were a Unionist and that you would vote for DUP candidates ahead of the UUP or TUV ”

    Correct presumption

    “There seems to be little room for dissenting/independent voices in the DUP so it would appear that my presumption was wrong. I suspect there will be even less room for dissent under the new dispensation. ”

    It’s amazing what you get away with when you just do it 😉

  • Animus

    Fair_deal – Neil Faris said at the Forum’s final meeting that he was not actually representing the business community. I was there and it caused a bit of a row from other members who were representing specific interests. He was appointed as business community rep, but followed his own conscience when it came down to it. So you may feel free to quote whatever you like on paper, but I am stating exactly what Neil Faris told the entire Forum in a public meeting. Who knew that documents could state something that is turns out to be false in practice?

    William – claiming that all unionist women aren’t represented by unionist parties is not the same as claiming there are no unionist women. Do you need a Ven diagram for me to explain this to you?

  • fair_deal

    Animus

    You said
    “He was appointed as business community rep”

    So to describe him as such is reasonable and not a misrepresentation as you claimed.

  • “It’s amazing what you get away with when you just do it ;-)”

    I suppose Ian P snr probably thought much the same thing last year when he hitched up with Martin McGuinness. But it rapidly spun out of control …

    PS Have you any plans to do ‘a number’ with an opposite number in the SF camp? 😉

  • Driftwood

    Newtons article in todays Irish news summed up perfectly how the pathetic WC are garnishing cushy well paid meaningless jobs, with no opposition. Simply appointed by Shaun Woodward on account of them being “decent” and upper middle class.
    They don’t even have the intellect of Boris or Cameron, just BT9 shove ins.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?

  • fair_deal

    Nevin

    “Have you any plans to do ‘a number’ with an opposite number in the SF camp?”

    Happily married thanx 😉

  • Animus

    To say that Neil Faris was appointed as a business rep is quite correct. To say that Neil Faris voted as a business rep with the unionist parties is misrepresenting the position he actually took. It’s all in the report, as well as Neil’s addendum explaining his position.

    The intellect of Boris? Now that’s a chuckle!