DUP to bargin over 42 days?

Over at Our Kingdom, Fair Deal makes a pitch for a DUP deal at Westminster with Labour over 42 days detention. It may not be popular with mainstream political opinion, but it is popular with the British public…

, ,

  • DC

    I wish the DUP would sort out education and justice powers here primarily, but still…

    I fail to see the need why Labour should court the DUP as going on historical indicators the courting of NI parties has been ineffective in terms of electoral rewards, thus public opinion remains unaffected by NI involvement, of any kind. It might get Labour the result but it is worthless political currency. Look at the last last-ditch indulgence played out between the Tories and the UUP not only did it not save the Tories but it slowed the pace of the peace process too. Useless.

    But knowing Brown he enjoys a good party-political dalliance to get the attention that makes up for the loss of personal appeal that Blair automatically had that bent others to his will. So it may well pop up in Brown’s mind as something worthy of consideration, but the British psyche holds a view of DUP-unionism as something akin to a political version of the ‘Chelsea hooligans’: dalliance or a dance with the political devil? Who cares, back home in NI the DUP are without justice powers of its own, dare they offer advice to the British without being coined hypocrites.

  • Steve

    Hey Mick

    Just to be a pain in the ass because you think my posts are’nt erudite enough for your rarified air

    are the dup going to barge in ?

    or are they going to bargain ?

    Frankly if they are going to barge in then 42 days seems to be a little too long

    If they are going to bargain the 42 days hardly seems long enough for their dubious bargaining skills

  • 42 day detention is an outrageous attack on civil liberties from a government that is clueless.

  • Rory

    Quite right, Watchman, it is a form of internment without trial to which every decent unionist would by tradition be implacably opposed. Good to see we’re on the same side on this issue.

  • Bob Wilson

    Hilarious nonsense. both the idea that the DUP have some form of bargaining power either in this situation or post the next General Election.
    Incredible that Dodds starts musing to Mark Devenport (see blog) about holding the balance of power Hours after election results that show that this is becoming increasingly unlikely!
    To be fair Mark and nigel wouldnt have had time to digest the weekend newspapers which show that Conservatives results in the key marginal Westminster seats were even more pornounced than the overall swing

  • Ahem

    I think you’ve rather missed Watchers’ point Rory. If the government wanted to call it internment, and justify it as such, then yeah, we’d, sadly, be all on board for it. As it is, neither the gravity of the situation nor the response proffered meet up. It’s, as it stands, an incoherent, free-form mess. Why on earth should the state have the power to engage, as it takes their fancy, in pointless, ‘random’ detentions for a mere 42 days? ‘Tell us why?’ is the traditional Rightist’s position. If there’s a threat, specify it. But of course they can’t and won’t (specify it) because they’re enfeebled by PC considerations. And as Watchers has pointed out to you, what other can anyone of a conservative mindset call the ’42 day’ proposal other than incoherent? If the people such detention is to be applied to *are* actually a threat, for heaven’s sake, what on earth is the point in holding them for 42 days? Either intern them, limitlessly, until they (or their presumed sponsors) stop being a threat to us, or don’t. Yet again, what you’re seeing, but failing to understand Rory, is the traditional Unionist opposition to pissing about. But then it’s also hardly very odd that it’s us Unionists who are standing up for constitutional government and the historic rights of the free-born Briton (even, no, especially those Britons who are Muslim and less pasty than your good self), whilst it’s supporters of terrorist murder who really can’t quite get to grips with what responsibility, freedom and fighting terrorism entails.

  • Ahem

    If there are six hundred Tory MPs after the next election Bob, the DUP’s MP will still have more ‘influence’ in parliament than all of the NI’s Conservative MPs. Or do you want to start predicting all the seats you’re going to win the Province?

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Ahem

    “If there are six hundred Tory MPs after the next election Bob, the DUP’s MP will still have more ‘influence’ in parliament than all of the NI’s Conservative MPs.”

    How do you figure? The nine or ten DUP MPs will have zero influence. The zero NI Tories will have zero influence too.

  • Dec

    Either intern them, limitlessly, until they (or their presumed sponsors) stop being a threat to us, or don’t.

    The logical conclusion of your ‘argument’ would be to shoot them. Think of all the money that would be saved, much to canny Unionism’s delight. Unlike Rory , I understand Unionism’s opposition to ‘pissing about’ and love of historic rights (fair representation, employment and basic tenets of democracy aside, natch).

  • Ahem

    That’s the whole point, by slow-to-school chum. We (Unionists, the British state we love so much, and so enjoy you being subject to) don’t shoot people out of hand. That’s rather the gig of the balaclava boys you’ve got such a pash on.

  • willowfield

    Dec

    “Either intern them, limitlessly, until they (or their presumed sponsors) stop being a threat to us, or don’t.”

    The logical conclusion of your ‘argument’ would be to shoot them.

    That’s not the logical conclusion at all, because the argument is (explicitly!) that the person in question would be released when he or she ceases to be a threat. If you shoot them, that would not be possible.

  • Steve

    Ahem

    There are lots of dead in nIreland and Ireland that leave your fsacts as indesputable lies

  • darth rumsfeld

    Ahem and watchman- so much common sense on one thread of slugger is welcome and unusual

  • Dec

    WF

    Slugger etiquette forbids me from describing precisely what you are, however you are assuredly a prize one.

  • Dec

    Ahem

    Clearly irony wasn’t a core subject in whatever fast-track secondary modern you went to. Presumably the stark differences between Citizenry and Nationality didn’t get debated much either.

  • elvis parker

    Aherm
    ‘If there are six hundred Tory MPs after the next election Bob, the DUP’s MP will still have more ‘influence’ in parliament than all of the NI’s Conservative MPs.’
    But the DUP MPs will have no influence at all. The Conservatives in NI would have influence via their party surely?
    If they got one MP elected he (or she) would probably end up being secretary of state!

  • Frustrated Democrat

    I think the NI Conservative leadership/membership have a sizeable input into the party’s thinking on NI and also on other policies.

    The party may be small in NI terms but without doubt has influence where it matters.

    Maybe now they are making sunstantial headway in the GB polls that may be reflected in NI once more, personally I think they have a window of opportunity to increase their share of the vote next time out; maybe no elected members but a base to build on.

  • Rory

    I expect, Ahem, that Brazilian visitors (and others “less pasty than (my) good self”) will be much reassured that “…(..the British state we love so much, and so enjoy you being subject to) don’t shoot people out of hand”. The possibility instead of an arbitrary forty two days detention must only add a little frisson to their visit to this cradle of modern democracy. It gives a whole new meaning to Mayor Boris’s pledge to make travel on the Tube much safer.

  • Ahem

    Yeah, one whole Brazilian – and there was an Irish fellow I seem to remember with a table leg the Met bagged too. Which makes two. And the first was bagged during a period when nearly 50 people had been murdered by bombers on the Tube, and the capital was faced with repeated weekly terrorist attacks. And that tragedy was of course a balls-up at every operational level, as the exhaustive independent report clearly showed. Orrrr, it’s all a sinister conspiracy against Oirland, freedom , you personally (and, er, Brazilians, hated foe of the British race), and you’ve, uh, space-cadetishly got me, Watchers and Darth bang to rights, in *our* opposition to 42 days by, uh, citing the superbly irrelevant, if not outright contradictory fact [remember, we’re against needless extensions of state power, heh?] that the Met have killed two – count ’em kids, count ’em all! – two people. So, the Met, Europe’s largest paramilitary force have, in recent years, got two. Howse your lot doing mucker?

  • Rory

    Since you ask my “lot” haven’t killed, injured or indeed physically attacked anyone at any time ever. Nor have they deprived anyone of their liberty nor made anyone subject to interrogation, sensory deprivation, torture or ill treatment because they feared their political opposition or felt the need to cow and control them or their friends.

    My “lot” have no arms, control no prisons, own neither police or army nor bailiffs or judges; neither do they own press or prelate to preach the gospel of their righteousness.

    My “lot” are the men, women and children of no property and all we have is the certainty that the good earth and all that is in it will one day be restored to our good stewardship and “your lot” will be but as a faint stain viewed with puzzlement as to its genesis or a bad memory faintly recalled by sleeping children to be dispelled by a mother’s soothing lullaby.

  • Ahem

    Ah, I see. For Rory the lot that are not his lot are a ‘stain’. Nice.

  • picador

    Didn’t Blair try to pass similar legislation and get defeated? Why is Brown wasting his (and parliament’s) time trying to revive a dead dog. ‘Tough man’ Brown is a dead man walking.