UDA facing a problem

Brian Rowan has an article in the Belfast Telegraph today discussing the IMC, the IRA Army Council and the UDA.I have recently mentioned the IRA army council and there is no need to spend vast amounts of time on it, save to mention Rowan’s comment that “time has passed since the Northern Bank robbery and other IRA linked actions.” This is interesting and seems to imply that there is some form of ultra short statute of limitations on terrorist activities. I would be surprised if ordinary robberies and murderers did not really matter after a year or so.

Moving to the issue of the UDA, however, the situation is equally interesting and morally vacuous. Rowan suggests that sources have told him that the UDA leadership “has a problem” in terms of winding up “And I’m not sure how soluble it is.” It seems that the UDA may be unable to tell its members what to do. This may well be the case. However, this does beg the question why then is anyone is talking to the UDA, why was there ever any consideration of giving them money for going away?

The UDA and its self appointed leadership of “brigadiers” may or may not be facing a problem. It certainly appears that loyalist paramilitary criminality has far from gone away. However, there is a more important issue: the UDA are a problem at all levels of their illegal criminal organisation. There is a solution to this problem: it is the rigorous enforcement of the rule of law and locking up those who commit crimes, including the crime of UDA membership. If the UDA leadership is a powerless and weak organisation then there is no need to entreat with it and no need to take it seriously; it should be ignored and the forces of law and order should deal severely with those in possession of weapons and all other criminal activities. If on the other hand it is a powerful organisation that changes nothing: it is still an illegal organisation composed of a group of criminals who should be locked up. The main problem the UDA leadership should have is the legitimate fear of arrest and prolonged imprisonment. That they seem to have less fear of this than they should have is a problem for all of us in this society. A problem we should demand be solved.

  • Pete Baker

    Turgon

    “The main problem the UDA leadership should have is the legitimate fear of arrest and prolonged imprisonment.”

    But then who will “maintain a sense of law and order” in their communities..”?

    [off sarcasm]

  • Steve

    Who will take over the heroin distribution racket in Ballymena

  • truth

    Turgon
    What’s your view on the winding up of the Army Council do you believe that it will happen with the transfer of policing and justice powers to the assembly?

  • “A problem we should demand be solved”

    You can demand as much as you like, Turgon, but London and Dublin will continue to stick by their ‘chosen few’ ie the likes of Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and Jackie McDonald.

    You’ll find that police stations will be closed down and the sites sold off to developers whilst the ‘chosen few’ and their cohorts will be given additional functions in ‘community development’ – and in community justice.

  • New Yorker

    The big issue for the IMC to address on the republican side is the Paul Quinn murder: Who did it, who provided support, the current state of criminality in South Armagh and what needs to be done about it to deliver full law enforcement to the area. Unless the IMC answers those questions and more regarding the Paul Quinn murder, they are not doing their job and IMC members’ CVs are very tarnished. Journalists should be asking the hard questions of the IMC.

  • Steve

    New Yorker

    The sole job of the IMC is not to police the Provos, I think its much more important for the IMC to address the complete lack of disarmament that has gone on with the english’s paramilitaries

  • New Yorker

    Steve

    The IMC should be policing all paramilitaries in NI and not ignore any of them as all of them are the main problem at present. On the republican side the major issue is the Paul Quinn murder. It should not be that a gang murders and there is no accounting. The murder occurred over six months ago. How long would it take in Canada for such an investigation to charge the murderers?

  • George

    New Yorker,
    I fear, as previously, you are vesting too much importance in the Quinn investigation. The powers that be don’t care about it and neither does the outside world.

    No media coverage in the US since the LA Times article way back in December, for example.

    Nobody in Great Britain knows or cares who Paul Quinn is either.

  • Pete Baker

    Despite the concerted campaign, which included the judicial route, against the IMC, it’s worth noting that they do have a stated objective to consider.

    The objective of the Commission is to carry out [its functions] with a view to promoting the transition to a peaceful society and stable and inclusive devolved Government in Northern Ireland.

  • Peter Brown

    In my admittedly somewhat limited experience Steve the UDA has not been involved to any great extent in Ballymena’s heroin problem – a problem that interestingly was largely based outside traditionally loyalist areas of the town – di you just make an assumption or had you heard differently?

  • New Yorker

    George

    I suggest you ask Dr. O’Hanlon about the Quinn murder. He’s actively concerned about the murder, especially since they crossed the border to do their dirty work in his backyard.

    As to those outside Ireland, I guess you do not read “The Economist.

    BTW, what is your interest in downplaying this important story? Don’t you murder is a grave matter?

  • Steve

    Peter Brown
    Having never taken any illicit drugs myself either in or out of Ballymena I was just having a laugh while pointing out the major source of alphabet killers funding

    exactly how well aquainted with heroin are you?

    New Yorker I hate to sound like a broken record but there is no proof that the IRA was involvrd in anyway other than that Mr. Quinns murderers were fit for the task. But since the proliferation of CSI-everything its hardly a big mystery on how to hide evidence.

    Bleach and blood spray figure heavily in almost every episode, since Mr. Quinns murder was obviously premeditated its hardly surprising that attempts to hide evidence were as well

    Still not proof the IRA was involved

  • New Yorker

    Steve

    We don’t know what proof there is, so there may be proof or there may not. Six months after the murder with up to 20 involved in a low population area and no one charged. Either the cops are bumblers or they are being restricted by politicians. The IMC should have seen everything by now and it is their responsibility to report. As Pete points out above, the IMC should be promoting a peaceful society. The Paul Quinn murder does not indicate a peaceful society but it makes clear that actions must be taken against those in that area who routinely destroy peaceful lives.

  • Dave

    NY, I think Pete Baker’s point was that the IMC has a political agenda that qualifies how it performs its functions under Articles 4, 5, 6 and 7 of the Independent Monitoring Commission Act 2003. The political agenda is that it must support ‘transition management’ of terrorists from crime to constitutional politics and it must support mandatory coalition. That qualification is likely to conflict with a mandate that is intolerant of continuing criminality. Obviously, if it finds that the IRA are continuing to engage in crime (and being Europe’s biggest organised crime gang might support this conclusion), then that finding will not smooth the progress of its political agenda and will be, likely, ignored. It is not impartial in its monitoring when it is controlled by a political agenda.

    The “Secretary of State’s First Report under Section 11(1) of the Northern Ireland (Monitoring Commission etc.) Act 2003” (then Paul Murphy) states “Article 3 of the Agreement provides that the objective of the IMC is to carry out its functions with a view to promoting the transition to a peaceful society and stable and inclusive devolved Government in Northern Ireland. On 9 March 6, the IMC issued a statement to explain how it intended to go about its work. The IMC made clear in that statement that Article 3 of the Agreement was its starting point and would guide all that it did.”

  • Dave

    In case I haven’t made that clear enough:

    Article 3 states that the IMC must carry out “its functions with a view to promoting the transition to a peaceful society and stable and inclusive devolved Government in Northern Ireland.” That is a political agenda.

    The Former SoS, Paul Murphy, stated : “The IMC made clear in that statement that Article 3 of the Agreement was its starting point and would guide all that it did.” That is an acknowledgement by the IMC that it will comply with the political agenda.

  • Dave

    “its functions with a view to promoting the transition to a peaceful society and stable and inclusive devolved Government in Northern Ireland.”

    Okay, here’s a cynic’s translation of the key words:

    With a view to = this is what we want you to do

    Promoting = cheerleading for the peace process

    Peaceful society = we don’t want the Shinners back on the streets shooting and bombing because their fondness for lucrative criminal rackets led to their exclusion from the Executive

    Stable = don’t give the Unionists an excuse to harp on about IRA criminality

    Inclusive devolved Government = a devolved Executive that includes Sinn Fein, so make sure you turn a blind eye to any shenanigans that may force us to exclude them

  • Quizdaemon

    The fact of the matter is that while the DUP are bitching and moaning about the IRA Army Council still existing, as if there is any way to prove that they are or aren’t functioning, Loyalist Paramilitaries have yet to have over any of their illegal weapons, are still heavily involved in criminality, and the loyalist leadership are still activly involved in whipping up tension in interface areas.

    I like most other respectable people was appalled at the murder of Paul Quinn but for “New Yorker” to being it up in a discussion about loyalists is a shameful demonstration of mopeary. Just as it’d be shameful to bring up Raymond McCord in a thread bashing the provo’s.

  • George

    New Yorker,
    I suggest you ask Dr. O’Hanlon about the Quinn murder. He’s actively concerned about the murder, especially since they crossed the border to do their dirty work in his backyard.

    I assume that the Dr. O’Hanlon of which you speak is the TD for the area where the murder happened.
    Local TD concerned about murder in his area shocker.

    As to those outside Ireland, I guess you do not read “The Economist.

    You mean the article from last October? As I said to you months ago, there is no international media interest in this. You couldn’t provide evidence that there was then (bar an LA Times article from November) and you can’t do it now either.

    The fact that you have to trawl up stories from last year is living proof that this is still the case.

    BTW, what is your interest in downplaying this important story? Don’t you murder is a grave matter?

    I’m not downplaying it, I’m just pointing out the reality of the situation. You have portrayed this story as one that is actively exercising the American business community and the American political system.

    It isn’t. You may feel it isn’t getting the attention it deserves, fair enough. But I don’t feel you should give the impression that it is getting global attention when it patently isnt.

  • “Political parties in a democratic and peaceful society, and all those working in them, must not in any way benefit from, or be associated with, illegal activity of any kind, whether involving violence or the threat of it, or crime of any kind, or the proceeds of crime. It is incumbent on all those engaged in democratic politics to ensure that their activities are untainted in any of these ways.” 17th IMC report

    So what happens to all the money accumulated by the paramilitary organised crime wings?

  • Fred

    People need to cut the shit. Paul Quinn was killed by the Provisional IRA. Now if the governments and IMC are making the reasonable decision that the Provos should now be considered some sort of free lance arm of the state appratus that is of intrest to all of us in Ireland, maybe not to the Yanks who expect such groups to exisit. Steve seems to know a lot and can prove a negative. But if the Provos did not kill Quinn why is the killing being used by them as an example of their authority? Steve my little armchair terrorist please don’t lie just because Gerry has made it cool.

  • RepublicanStones

    Fred you just completely disqualified your comment with your own sentence.

    ‘seems to know a lot and can prove a negative’

  • Steve

    Fred
    I will leave your post as my defense. I don’t know anymore than you do but since I believe people are innocent till proven guilty I lack your moral convictions

  • PeaceandJustice

    Steve – “The sole job of the IMC is not to police the Provos, I think its much more important for the IMC to address the complete lack of disarmament that has gone on with the english’s paramilitaries”

    I’m not aware of an English group. As you are a supporter of the Sinn Fein PIRA death squads/politicians, I assume you are using their style of words.

    Steve – “I don’t know anymore than you do … I believe people are innocent till proven guilty”

    That’s good. So we won’t be hearing any more allegations from you about Unionists, Loyalists or the Government.

  • Steve

    Why P&J;the link between the cops and the3 alphabet killers has been credibly established even to the satisfaction of the police ombudsman

  • Look at all points of view

    it amuses me, that there still doesn’t appear to be anybody out there who either doesn’t have bitterness engrained in them, or who are utterly unable to see all points of view on issues.
    yes the paul quinn murder was brutal, i don’t know who was involved but i do know the vast majority of republicans were just as discusted as anybody else about it, of course the republican side of the peace process hasn’t gone far enough for many, but the (key)point is that while they might not have gone down the sackclothe road, they have packed up the weapons, instructed their members to get involved in peaceful politics and aren’t involved in criminality as an organisation (there may be bad apples).
    the loyalists on the other hand have seemingly no intention of handing in weapons and are still heavily involved in crime and general thuggery and of course the double standard still prevails, no-one cares about them, they can do whatever they want and the spotlight is and seemingly always will be on the IRA.

    [text removed – mods]

  • good grief

    I’m sickened by the ongoing existence of these thugs, i’m disturbed by the lack of calls for these people to be disarmed.

    The thugs involved have long since worked out there is not stick to beat them with, and not much of a carrot. The police appear powerless to act against them. Depressingly i see no immediate prospect of their removal from society. They offer nothing except grim low level violence and intimidation along with crude posturing as community representatives. Sickening.

    As this thread has nothing to do with “the other side” i won’t comment and i see no reason why ‘but look at themmuns’ should form any kind of justification for anything.

  • PeaceandJustice

    Steve – “the link between the cops and the3 alphabet killers has been credibly established even to the satisfaction of the police ombudsman”

    So a few examples proves the rule for you? You know very well that the majority of RUC, UDR and RIR were ordinary decent members of the community. Unlike your friends in the SF PIRA death squads, they didn’t go out murdering people in front of their families or shooting people in their shops for selling sweets to the police. Of course there are always a few exceptions to the rule. But you have no credibility at all given your support for murder, torture and genocide against Protestants.

    Look at all points of view – “the spotlight is and seemingly always will be on the IRA.”

    As the Sinn Fein PIRA murderers put themselves up as candidates and get voted in by the majority of Roman Catholics, that it why there is more focus on their crimes. The UDA/UVF/LVF don’t have positions of authority in the Government of Northern Ireland. Get it?

  • Steve

    P&J;So a few examples proves the rule for you? You know very well that the majority of RUC, UDR and RIR were ordinary decent members of the community

    Yes but they chose to do nothing about the ones who werent ordinary decent members so unfortunately they have painted themselves with the shitty brush and have to accept that they too were part of the problem not part of the solution

    And that whole genocide thing is just a non-starter. Genocide requires more than 100 deaths a year, if you wanted to call it a sectarian conflict then you might atleast have a toe hold calling it a genocide zeroes your credibility

    The UDA/UVF/LVF don’t have positions of authority in the Government of Northern Ireland. Get it?

    Maybe but members or former member or associates of members or former members certainly do take part in unionist politics and infact one of them will shortly be the FM of nIreland

  • PeaceandJustice

    “The UDA/UVF/LVF don’t have positions of authority in the Government of Northern Ireland. Get it?”

    Steve – “Maybe but members or former member or associates of members or former members certainly do take part in unionist politics and infact one of them will shortly be the FM of N.Ireland”

    That sentence sounds a bit like the way Sinn Fein PIRA considered nearly everyone as ‘legitimate targets’ i.e. anyone in the Protestant Unionist community.

    Your Sinn Fein PIRA murder campaign was a form of genocide. Article 2 of the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide defines genocide as “any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
    killing members of the group;
    causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
    deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;” etc

    You might want to examine your own conscience before having a go at everyone else.

  • Steve

    So by the UN’s own definition it was not genocide, thanks for the clarification and back up

  • nananaaanaaa

    You cant prove we killed quinn na na naaa naaa so sayeth all the provie sympathisers. Thats right sayeth the others but we choose to believe his parents.

  • New Yorker

    The Paul Quinn murder remains serious unfinished business for NI. What connection, if any, is there between SF and the murderers? Why did SF leaders make exculpating statements at the time? Is a political party with the possible backup of a murder squad eligible to be a part of a democratic government? These and the above are what the IMC should answer.

    George

    I was not referring to the October issue of “The Economist” but an edition of just a few weeks ago. You can probably look it up on their website. As to international business views of NI, let’s see what the investment conference next week yields. My prediction is very little actual ‘take it to the bank’ investment due to continuing instability in NI, highlighted by organized gang murder with impunity, unsolved major bank robbery, terrorist no-go areas…How would you explain an investment in a place like that to your board and major investors?

  • Steve

    New Yorker

    The answer would seem to be yes as no one has ever seriously tried to bar the PUP from participating in the government. Infact i seem to remember the then major unionist party getting awful friendly with them

  • Steve

    oh and as fsar as i knoww the PUP is the only political party with active death squads though I suspect the TUV has some rather interesting membership roles

  • Paul McMahon

    “As the Sinn Fein PIRA murderers put themselves up as candidates and get voted in by the majority of Roman Catholics, that it why there is more focus on their crimes. The UDA/UVF/LVF don’t have positions of authority in the Government of Northern Ireland. Get it?”

    So trying draw some kind of moral equivalence between those bad bad nationalists voting for those nasty Republicans and those good good Unionists having no truck with those ast Loyalist terrorists?

    “In the late 1980s unionist councillors elected the PUP’s Hugh Smyth as deputy mayor, four years before the UVF’s ceasefire.
    In June 1994, Mr Smyth was elected first citizen – four months before the UVF ceasefire. In December 2000 deputy mayor Frank McCoubrey, who despite being a member of the UDA-linked UDP was elected to the post by mainstream unionist councillors, was a character witness for a man in court on attempted murder charges relating to the UDA/UVF feud.
    Unionist politicians regularly condemn loyalist violence, but contacts between the DUP, the UUP and loyalists have occurred regularly. In 1986 DUP leader Ian Paisley defended his decision to attend the wake of murdered UVF leader John Bingham. A number of other high-ranking unionist councillors attended Mr Bingham’s funeral.
    Those present when John Bingham’s coffin – draped in a UVF flag, beret and gloves – was carried from the church, included the then north Belfast MP Cecil Walker, former DUP councillor George Seawright, former UUP mayor John Carson and councillors Joe Coggle, Frank Millar and Hugh Smyth.”

    http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/irish_news/arts2002/nov8_problem_with_republicans.php

    FFS catch a grip and stop being a hypocrite. Members of mainstream Unionism were terrorist enablers for years.

    I find it somewhat sardonically funny when ultra super Unionists shout about the DUP & SF being in power when one can see that they had no problem attending the funerals of Loyalist murder gang leaders and voting their spokespeople into the highest positions of local government, [and the people who are shouting most loudly now were their most viciforous supporters then].

    It doesn’t matter if it’s the rate payers of Belfast City Council or the tax payers of The Assembly, the principle is exactly the same.

  • Richard James

    “I fear, as previously, you are vesting too much importance in the Quinn investigation. The powers that be don’t care about it and neither does the outside world.”

    Which illustrates perfectly the moral bankruptcy of the so-called “peace” process, doesn’t it?

  • Aahh well

    Richard James I fear, as previously, you are vesting too much importance in the Quinn investigation. The powers that be don’t care about it and neither does the outside world.”

    Which illustrates perfectly the moral bankruptcy of the so-called “peace” process, doesn’t it?

    Nope if what say is true and the powers that be don’t care about it and neither does the outside world. Never mind the so called peace process the whole thing is fuked and we are living on borrowed time.It reminds me of the The Mask of the Red Death by Edgar Allan Poe.I think paisley makes an excellent Prince Prospero.

  • Dave

    “So what happens to all the money accumulated by the paramilitary organised crime wings?” – Nevin

    Shush… you’re supposed to pretend that they crime doesn’t lead to accumulated wealth. In the case of the IRA, please pretend that they spent hundreds of millions raised through crime on Semtex and guns, and please ignore the fact that their Semtex and guns were given to them free-of-charge by Libya (along with £10 million in cash). Likewise with the loyalist murder gangs, please don’t mention the lucrative drugs and protection rackets. Let’s not rock the political boat by mentioning criminal wealth, or the management thereof, by these criminal gangs and their political wings. After all, the advantage for the organised crime gangs of having political wings is that you can use them to provide cover for the organised crime wing.

  • longlake

    re the wealth accumulated by paramilitaries, take a drive around sth Armagh, view the mansions with their electric gates and marvel at how people with no record of working are suddenly so prosperous.

  • Dave

    They’re the godfathers. The patsys at the other end were paid £20 a week as ‘volunteers.’ Even with 300 volunteers being paid £20 a week, that’s only £300,000 a year – far away from the £30-40 million a year in revenue raised from crime. Even the Marxists are into uneven distribution of wealth, it seems.

  • PeaceandJustice

    To Steve – I don’t expect you to admit that your Sinn Fein PIRA murder gangs were involved in genocide. But the facts speak for themselves. You only have to look at the murders of Protestants around the border to see a policy of genocide.

    To Paul McMahon – you long diatribe just proves the case. While there may have been some mixing at the edges, you cannot compare the actions of the main Unionist parties with the Sinn Fein PIRA murder gangs. Many of the SF PIRA people elected to power have been actively involved in murder and torture – something which makes the man involved in the Enniskillen Bloody Sunday very very proud.

  • Dave

    Incidently, longlake, the interest on the £10 million in cash that they got from Libya would have been enough to cover the annual cost of running the IRA. The rest of the rackets were just profiteering, using the cover of raising funding for ‘the cause.’

  • Steve

    Like I said P&J;the First minister arguably IS and the NEW one WILL BE “a member or former member or associate of a member or former member” of a Loyalist Paramilitary Organisation and there is absolutely no denying that unionists voted for “a member or former member or associate of a member or former member” of a Loyalist Paramilitary Organisation in near record numbers as Irecall

    You can spout all you want about SF if you voted unionist the last election your hands are not any cleaner than those that voted SF

  • “We were unable to determine how the organisation was dealing with the question of previously illegally gained funds.” .. 17th IMC report

    This admission was made about PIRA but it could have been made about all of the paramilitary groups. Organised crime has a past, a present and will have a future, especially for those who bask in the glow of governments’ favoured status.

  • PeaceandJustice

    Steve – “You can spout all you want about SF [PIRA] if you voted unionist the last election your hands are not any cleaner than those that voted SF”

    What rubbish. You’ve obviously been brainwashed by the murder gangs you were mixing with.

    Nevin – “Organised crime has a past, a present and will have a future, especially for those who bask in the glow of governments’ favoured status.”

    SF PIRA terrorists own a lot of property and businesses but we have only seen limited investigations. So you’re right that they’ve been given a special status allowing them to control illegal funds while being in positions of power.

  • Steve

    Yeah P&j;you are right the murder gangs I mix with have brain washed me, who knew the IRA were so well represented in CANADA. I think its you who’s been brainwashed by murder gangs. But then unionism has never been particularily inflicted with critical thought

  • New Yorker

    The provo supplicants are uncomfortable discussing the Paul Quinn murder and will bring up anything to divert from the issue. I wonder why!

    Let’s see what John Alderdice, Joe Brosnan, John Grieve and Dick Kerr of the IMC have to say in a few days. Excusing murder does not look good on one’s CV but rigorous honesty is admirable.

  • Seimi

    ‘The provo supplicants are uncomfortable discussing the Paul Quinn murder and will bring up anything to divert from the issue. I wonder why!’

    Ummm, possibly because this is a thread about the UDA, New Yorker?
    Also, would you mind explaining what you mean by ‘provo supplicants’? Also ‘uncomfortable’?

    One article in one newspaper in the States does not constitute an international outcry. The sad fact is that Paul Quinn’s family will probably have to wait many years before being told that ‘evidence is inconclusive,’ or some other throw away reason for the lack of arrests. Just the same as so many murders over the years, on both sides of the community.
    I do believe, however, that no matter what, people are INNOCENT until proven GUILTY. I thought that was the cornerstone of the American justice system? No matter how many people cry out that the IRA are responsible for this murder, no matter how many people say ‘everybody knows it’, no matter how many politicians use this young man’s death for their own parties benefit, the fact remains that, according to the LAW here, there is NO concrete evidence that says this was definitely, 100%, the work of the IRA. You may not like that, but try to think about the Quinn family in this situation, and not how you can use it to attack Republicans.

  • “Let’s see what John Alderdice, Joe Brosnan, John Grieve and Dick Kerr of the IMC have to say in a few days.”

    The IMC has gone very quiet on its once favourite phrase: a culture of lawfulness. I suspect it will have little to say about the closure of police stations and the ‘delegation‘, by the PSNI, of ‘control’ of local communities to the ‘friends‘ of the Irish and British establishments. Presumably the police are following political guidelines …

  • New Yorker

    Seimi

    For the meaning of provo supplicant you can look in the mirror and also follow the reactions to the IMC report. Both should make the meaning clear to you.

  • Paul McMahon

    To Paul McMahon – you long diatribe just proves the case. While there may have been some mixing at the edges, you cannot compare the actions of the main Unionist parties with the Sinn Fein PIRA murder gangs”

    So the entire Unionist bloc at BCH voting spokespeople of Loyalist killer gangs, both of whom were very blatantly and unapologetically murdering people at the time of these elections, into the pinnacle of civic office in local government along with the upper echelons of said Unionism mourning the leader of a north Belfast sectarian killing machine was just “some mixing at the edges” was it?

    I previously accused of moral equivalence, I was wrong, you’re also wrapped in sociopath denial.

  • Seimi

    ‘For the meaning of provo supplicant you can look in the mirror and also follow the reactions to the IMC report. Both should make the meaning clear to you.’

    New Yorker, you know nothing about where my loyalties lie, whether pro or anti provo, so please don’t label me as such just because I don’t immediately fall in with your assertion that ‘it was the Provos what done it.’ Did you read any of the rest of my post? Innocent until proven guilty, remember?
    According to the IMC report, the Provisional leadership was NOT involved in Paul Quinn’s murder. In fact, they point it that it was carried out by individuals, some with IRA connections, some without. I would like to think that every single one of these scumbags are arrested and sent to jail, no matter what groups they are or are not connected to. Is that good enough for you? Would you be so quick to condemn and label if the murderers had affiliations with Loyalist groups?
    But don’t worry, I’m sure there’ll be another report in some American paper in the next few months and you’ll be able to label me a supplicant again.
    The view from your high horse must be a good one to see all the way over here mate.