Soup and PUP to split?

It appears that Dawn Purvis the leader of the Progressive Unionist Party aka terrorist apologists has held a meeting with leaders of some of the alphabet soup. According to the Belfast Telegraph the latest in a series of meetings took place two Wednesdays ago. At it the “special relationship” between these two organisations was discussed. They may be going to have an amicable divorce? The report contains these gems:
“I see it just as people living in the past,” one insider said. ” The thing has moved on. It’s moving on even beyond us,” he said.
“When Davy (Ervine) was alive, he would bat all that off,” the source added.
“He was UVF and an ex-prisoner and he could talk to them in the same sort of language. If we had to depend on the UVF to elect the PUP, we would never have got anybody elected.”
It had been suggested at last Wednesday’s conference that the UVF and its ” volunteers” were a ” resource” that could be developed. But this was refuted.
At the end it mentions that the UVF might go away or as they put it “Leave the stage”. How many times have they promised that and indeed what were they doing on the stage in the first place. Oh yes defending the Protestant population. Defending it by murdering people in bars, betting shops etc. Defending it by peddling drugs, assaulting people, robbing the elderly. Yes as I have said before their uselessness is complete.
If the PUP is to split from them I suppose it is to be welcomed. A pity Purvis and her predecessor were unable to condemn or work against this band of murderous criminals; but that is just stating the obvious.

  • mmmmmmmmm

    This never makes sense to me, while I was never an Ervine fan if I had to vote for a unionist it would have been him. I heard him condemn and critise the UVF on a continuing basis his very existence was working against them. Purvis has been even further from them since he died. If this story is true she wants further away which makes sense, they are a liability in every sense.

    I wish more Unionists were like Ervine Especially since Sinn Fein have abandoned all social priorities.

  • Richard James

    “I heard him condemn and critise the UVF on a continuing basis his very existence was working against them.”

    Except he didn’t. Whenever it came to brutal sectarian murders such as that of Michael McGoldrick he refused to “get into the politics of condemnation”. He gave fouled mouth abuse to victims of UVF terrorism, even exclaiming to a Young Unionist meeting I attended that he was “pissed off” with Raymond McCord.

  • mick_c

    What difference will it make, the PUP were never going to be an influence on the Political stage, and thier sidekicks in the UVF were a small band of gangsters who spent most of thier time heaping misery on the populace the sooner they both “leave the stage” the better. As for Davy was he really all the moderate as most believe, I think if one were to ask Raymond McCord the answer would be a resounding NO!

  • Comrade Stalin

    I heard him condemn and critise the UVF on a continuing basis his very existence was working against them.

    This just goes to show that if Ervine was effective at anything, it was PR. Of course, he never condemned the UVF, although he criticized certain actions. He never said the organization should disband, and he never regretted anything he did in his past.

  • Muad’Dib

    The PUP are a bunch of wasters. Their office on the Newtownards Road is rarely open and even if you can find them open they certainly won’t give you any help unless you drink in “the kneebreakers”.

    As for Ms Purvis, there is more chance of Kate Moss turning up on my door asking for a quickie than there is of her retaining her seat in the next assembly election. Her whole campaign was based on capitalising on her predecessor. I keep an eye on Stormont Live when I can and I don’t think I’ve even heard her speak once, nor have I ever seen her on the news. Her only saving grace is that she denys the DUP another seat.

  • Steve

    I can’t help but reading this headline as

    “soup and poop”

  • Ulsters my homeland
  • UMH – That’s not Dawn Purvis, that’s a list of MEPs. It’s more likely this guy.

  • whocares

    Dawn Purvis spoke in the eames bradley debate yesterday.

    I have seen her speak a good few times on tinternet coverage of the assembly, bearing in mind the party size and the amount she will actually be allowed to speak, she probably gets to her feet as often as the speaker and the bigger parties allow her

    The same as it was with ervine and now with the greens etc any big debate which is where everyone is watching..they dont get to speak because the big parties flood speaker.

  • Mike C

    Oh beano…..whoooooooosh!

  • karl

    comrade stalin

    Ervine was not good at PR, that is ludicrous statement, it is not like he had a machine or any kind of PR strategy like the other parties, he just had the gift of the gab and people listened, thats very different.

    I heard him criticize the UVF plenty, enough to suggest to me that he wanted them gone and they were a constant thorn in his side. I don’t think he supported them, I think he was stuck with them.

    Are you kidding about the disbandment, Ervine would have done much better without the UVF, he had a gift for talking, people tended to like and respect him regardless of his past, if the UVF had disbanded his vote would have shot up about 25% in the next election and up every time since.

    As for his past, I never got the chance to vote for him so didn’t have to decide, but the fact he didn’t regret it I don’t think would have put me off, the fact that he admitted it and didn’t want it to happen again would have been enough for me. Some Sinn Fein people are the same, they have a history but now make a positive contribution – I cant criticize that without taking a moral high-ground which benefits no one.

  • Richard James

    “I heard him criticize the UVF plenty, enough to suggest to me that he wanted them gone and they were a constant thorn in his side. I don’t think he supported them, I think he was stuck with them.”

    Really; then why did he borrow phrases from Sinn Fein to dismiss UVF murders, abuse families of UVF victims and team up with SF/IRA to oppose demands for decommissioning?

  • shankly’s socialism

    @Richard James

    I think karl has a point

    I don’t think what karl said and your answer are as mutually exclusive as you suggest.

    I think Ervine was fundamentally against the UVF and stepped as far away from them as he could each time, pissing them off but dragging them along bit by bit. Sinn Fein did a similar job but theirs was much easier as they had a cohesive and previously single leadership, which Ervine never had the luxury of.

    I dont think he ever dismissed any murder no matter who it was from.

    Although from my memory he never condemned a republican or loyalist murder, that doesn’t mean to say he agreed with it – just a more pragmatic approach “this awful thing has happened, how do we make sure it never happens again?” – to me its semantics “the causes of the conflict have been removed” as opposed to “the war is over”.

    I dont live in Belfast so never got the chance to vote for him but I think I might have, he did a completely thankless job with the UVF which I think he found increasingly tedious and unpleasant as the years went on, he could have just ditched them but then I believe we all would have been worse off, the police have hardly been effective at shutting down paramilitaries, if he prodded, poked and dragged them in the right direction, that was desirable.

    He did a nasty job none of us would have done or would have wanted to do but that society was better off for. He obviously wasn’t doing it for selfish reason, I believe he sacrificed a more successful political career to do a dirty job that needed done, I don’t think he chose it or wanted it.

    If there is a dam holding back a load of sewage, the man who sticks his finger in it smells of shit but the town smells less of shit than it would if he decided he didn’t want the job anymore – I see past that to the man doing a horrible job for no thanks, to a large extent it is a brave decision to plug that hole.

  • Dr Strangelove

    “If there is a dam holding back a load of sewage, the man who sticks his finger in it smells of shit but the town smells less of shit than it would if he decided he didn’t want the job anymore – I see past that to the man doing a horrible job for no thanks, to a large extent it is a brave decision to plug that hole. ”

    SS, that was beautiful.

    By the way, which pub is “The Kneebreakers”

  • shankly’s socialism

    @Dr Strangelove

    🙂

    Sorry cant help you out there, tee totaling, areligious, middle of the Northern Ireland roader here.

    If its a serious question I would imagine there is one in every part of town.

  • Muad’Dib

    If Ervine disliked the UVF so much why did he join them and when caught planting a bomb serve time in the UVF wing? Why when he was alive did he only drink in pubs controlled by the UVF? How come on several occasions during the July “Festivities” was there a UVF flag flying on his East Belfast office? Why where most of his staff connected to the UVF or it’s sister organisations.

  • Blooper

    Why did he never go to The Cenotaph on Rememberance Sunday, choosing instead to spend the morning at the UVF Memorial at Cherryville Street?

  • gareth mccord

    ervine was nothing but a “scumbag” in his own words.

  • east belfast pup

    Muad’Dib – Any flag ever put up would have had ‘1912’ on it. Ervine had 2 full time and 1 part time members of staff, none with any UVF past.

  • Blooper

    “Any flag ever put up would have had ‘1912’ on it”

    Oh yeah because the wider public can appreciate that subtle difference. Please.

  • Turgon

    Now blooper do not be quite so churlish. For the first time in a long time a loyalist cheerleader has shown up. And we have a most rational explanation from him or her. Also blooper I am sure a pig is flying past your window, as it is past mine.

    I am sure that east belfast pup is about to tell us that s/he and indeed the whole PUP condemn all UVF terrorism. So east belfast pup I take it you utterly and unreservedly condemn all loyalist murders etc. over the past 40 years?

    Blooper may I suggest you do not hold your breath whilst waiting for his / her answer: Although you are in the DUP and I in he TUV, I do not want you to turn blue and die.

  • austin

    TUV? Is that the latest flag of convenience for the ‘wouldn’t have a taig about the place’ crew?

    Methinks you’re not as far removed from the sectarian views of the UVF, as you’d like to think , Turgon. The only discernible different is that the UVF had a deadlier way of removing catholics from the scene compared to the more quaint reliance on gerrymandering and discrimination, so beloved of the forerunners of the TUV.

  • veryjaded

    Austin, the TUV doesn’t want terrorists about the place. I imagine they’d be quite happy sharing power with constitutional nationalists such as the SDLP.

    I don’t even support Allister or the TUV and even I’m sick of hearing the “omg u jus dnt want a catholic about da place u bigot!!!!”.

  • Danny

    Actually, I believe TUV is opposed to All enforced power sharing arrangements.

  • austin

    Indeed, Danny. Evidently ‘veryjaded’ is that jaded that he doesn’t allow the facts to get in the way of a good old fashioned MOPE.

  • pupvoter

    Turgon

    While not the original east belfast poster, I can reply so you can breath in and out again if you wish.

    I am not a cheerleader for anything, I consider everything on its own merits, I would never restrict myself to such a role.

    Certainly I would condemn every murder, most of NI’s politics, most of NI’s history and all of our societies ‘looking the other way’ over the last 40 years.

  • Muad’Dib

    What about the murders comitted by representatives of your party. Billy Hutchinson wasn’t exactly doing time for j-walking.

  • pupvoter

    ‘without exception’ will be written beside ‘every’ in any dictionary you care to check therefore discussing individual cases is completely unnecessary.

    Having said that anyone who serves a sentence for whatever crime in its entirety and then reintegrates into society with a goal of making a positive contribution should be recognised for the positive aspect of that journey as well as the negative.

  • gareth mccord

    pupvoter it doesnt say much for your morals or thinking to defend and vote for a party who wont accept findings of collusion with your parties members and security forces.
    Or next time you are at a u.v.f./pup meeting ask the question why do they protect and ignore paid killers in their ranks. Ask them to define a ceasefire giving the facts of up to 29 people murdered and attempted murders since 1994?
    I WONT HOLD MY BREATH!!

  • Poop

    Pretty much every politician/party has blood on their hands. At least Ervine admitted it and tried to build a better future. He did hold back the UVF from returning to war when the IRA started bombing England again and then when extremists on both sides starting to kill again.

    I can’t blame Ervine for joining the UVF after watching Bloody Friday happen. Thousands of individuals joined paramilitaries back then due to similiar experiences.

    The PUP is also the only party that gives a damn about working class Prods.

  • pupvoter

    Poop – I agree with some of what you say.

    Every party does have responsibility for the state of the ‘nation’ and should be constantly reminded of that fact. Perhaps those who have had the greatest negative impact as far as conflict and sectarianism are now in power – so we should make and help them fix it.

    Your right – David Ervine never hid his past and made hugely positive influences after becoming a democrat. There are some people who if removed from our peace process we wouldn’t have made it, he is one of the few.

    While I understand your point about Ervine joining the UVF I dont agree with it, I understand the reasoning behind the joining of a paramilitary organisation but there are also many who took a different path…also as time passed from then that reasoning is gone..which means no one should be a paramilitary anymore…but that isnt the case yet.

    Gareth – as far as I can recall the PUP have never denied any of the findings of any collusion report. In fact I have heard several PUP spokespersons speaking in public at length on the abuse and misuse of agents and informers no matter where they were placed.

    I am only a PUP voter I dont go to any meetings of any description.