DUP man: “No Pope here…”

Interesting piece in the Irish News about Wallace Thompson, Nigel Dodds’ Special Advisor at Enterprise got himself into an hour long row with the callers on Joe Duffy’s Liveline phone in show when he called the Pope the Anti Christ… Not subtle, but that’s what it says in the Westminster Confession… It seems the ‘we’ refers to the Evangelical Presbyterian Church Protestant Society of which he is secretary, and not the DUP. It’s not a distinction that is that’s going down well with Sinn Fein, the SDLP and the Alliance.

  • austin

    Cut The Bull, you have been replaced as Slugger’s Chief Entertainer by Robert Bingham
    with Willowfield getting the wooden spoon.

  • BP, conspiracy is the lifeblood of politics. I don’t know about IPjr’s smoking gun but I could maybe get you a tiger fish – from the Nookie girls!!

  • Dec

    The first Waldensian churches (although not known as Waldensians until the 11th Century) were founded by Paul!!! So what more of a link with Jesus would you like mate?

    Hat tip to anyone who can make sense of that.

    Watchman

    You always crack that lame Ant & Dec ‘gag’ every time my trusty sword of logic smites your wafer thin arguments ie

    Watchman: Whatever happened to freedom of speech in this country?

    Dec: pertinent and irrefutable counter-argument supplied

    Watchman: I never said there was Freedom of Speech in this country. Where’s Ant? etc…

    Alas, I’ll not be taking history lessons, or indeed lessons of any kind, from a man who believes in a God, a Devil and an ‘Anti-Christ’ and presumably keeps his ear for an impending blast of a loud trumpet. See you at the Rapture!

  • Brian Crowe

    Mr. Thompson is, of course, entitled to both hold and express his fundamentalism. However, one could be forgiven for thinking that just maybe a sense of public duty might have prevented him from offending a large section of our community. Or that political commom-sense might have given him pause for thought before making unionism appear to be a coalition of the weird and the scary.

    There is also the basic factual error. Mr. Thompson says that his claim about the pope being the anti-christ is merely the teaching of the main (Protestant) churches. Nowhere, however, do the formularies of the Church of Ireland refer to the papacy as the anti-christ.

    As an Anglican I have to say thanks but no thanks to Mr. Thompson’s theological reflections – they don’t speak for me.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Robert Bingham

    You ruined my fun by admitting that “you were only having a laff”

    I hope you get banned for making me chuckle, only to ruin my day. You blaggard of a bounder, sir!

    The flipside is that I bet Willow has lot’s of space around him at parties, the dourness shines out. I know of two guys called Donald McDonald, both Catholics. Many times people will have fun with putting other Scots surnames as Christian names. my favourite is Farquar Farquarson, as you can imagine i am the life and soul of the place.

    On topic, who really cares what these crackpots have to say? I don’t, they no longer influence those with their grubby hands on the levers of power, here in Bonny Scotland or indeed in Ireland.

    BTW Willow. I holiday in Portpatrick on the Rhins of Galloway, and I get RTE, so gie’s peace about not being able to get it if you live in Ireland.

  • Turgon

    Ah the Pope and Antichrist,

    I had thought about blogging this myself but after the vitriol I recieved previously discussing the beliefs of fundamentalist Protestants I did not. I apologise Bigger Picture, I have been very busy and only now have the time to sit down and compose a comment.

    Firstly as I have said before I am not a theologian and this sort of thing is not high on my list of interests. I will, however, without expressing any strong position myself outline a number of views on the pope and antichrist.

    The traditional meaning which most of you will think of is the Beast in Revelation. This antichrist is clearly opposed to Christ.

    However, the bible makes other mention of the word
    1 John 2:18 “Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.”

    or

    2 John 1:7 “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”

    So clearly there can be multiple antichrists. Indeed I was once told (I have no citation to back it up) that the Greek “anti” means in place of. Now that particular fundamentalist argument follows that since the pope claims to be the “Vicar of Christ” and indeed claims to be an interceeder between man and God then such a person puts themself in the place of Christ (The one whom Protestants believe is the only mediator between God and man). As such the pope putting himself in Christ’s place is an anti-Christ.

    Some do indeed identify the final antichrist in Revelation as the pope, most probably do not. Some also identify the church of Rome as the Whore of Babylon mentioned in Revelation. Some regard none of this as applying to the pope.

    A further note: someone said above that fundamentalists do not regard Roman Catholics as Christians. Of course they do not; they regard many Protestants as non Christians. The definition of a Christian is taken to be one who has personally acceped Christ (we can argue about predestination another day). As such some Roman Catholics may be Christians as may some Protestants. Remember to a fundamentalist the term “Christian” is a technical term not describing a nice or good person. As C S Lewis has observed it is like the word “Gentleman”. Once it was a technical description of a person of a particular financial and social standing. Now it merely means a nice man. Fundamentalists use the term Christian as a technical term nothing else.

    I am sorry if all that is long winded but if people want a technical description that is as good as I can do. Elenwe is off to bed so I cannot get a proper theological explanation.

  • Rory

    This Wallace Thompson character was fun for a while but now is becoming rather boring.

    Couldn’t we sack him (from this thread at least) and substitute someone whose name is so similar sounding that it might well escape the moderator’s detection? I refer of course to Wallis Simpson.

    Now she was a fun gal and there is a royal connection as she married the last truly great English queen, Edward VIII. But he got unfrocked and had to wear trousers in public. At least for a while until all the fuss died down.

  • Mick Fealty

    Rory,

    WT is a familiar blast from the past… In a previous incarnation he went under the Nom de Guerre of SO’T… The thing about weddings was the giveaway for me…

    Turgon,

    Nice post…

  • republicanstoned

    George

    “Thompson must be wondering what he has done to God to be put on an island where 4 in 5 are followers of the anti-Christ. ”

    So Catholics follow the Pope and not the word of God.

    I agre that it is a bit strong to say the Pope is an anti christ, he is however a former nazi scumbag.

  • George

    Republicanstoned,
    the leader of the Catholic Church on Earth is the anti-Christ, according to Thompson, so, yes, Catholics would be followers of the anti-Christ.

    They might believe they are following the Word but they are, in reality, following the teachings of the anti-Christ.

    I think you are being a bit harsh on Ratzinger, he was a child in a dictatorship. Either way, it really doesn’t matter even if he was a scumbag it doesn’t matter in the eyes of the Lord.

    As St Patrick said:

    “I am Patrick, a sinner, most unlearned, the least of all the faithful, and utterly despised by many ….

    … And there the Lord opened the sense of my unbelief that I might at last remember my sins and be converted with all my heart to the Lord my God, who had regard for my abjection, and mercy on my youth and ignorance, and watched over me before I knew Him, and before I was able to distinguish between good and evil, and guarded me, and comforted me as would a father his son.”

    Those Christians have answers to everything.

  • erend

    The Lutheran church, that evil Church that doominates Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark and Iceland recognises as part of it’s litergy that the Pope is the biblical Anti-Christ.

    The idea that the Pope is the Biblical anti-Christ is actually not some pre-occupation of wackos but pretty mainstream and established Protestantism.

  • Turgon

    Mick,

    Thank you,

    To be honest these issues (Pope / antichrist) and the end of the world are really for the anorak brigade of fundamentalist. Most fundamentalists regard them as of little importance in the day to day life and witness of their faith. The other problem which flows from this is that whenever people preach / talk on them they tend to support only their own intrepretation and denounce to a greater or lesser extent everyone else’s opinion.

    As such getting any form of consensus on fundamentalist thought on such matters is practically impossible. It is really herding cats type of stuff.

    Fortunately such sermons are relatively rare. When they do occur I tend to either surriptiously read the pew bible or play my favourite bored in church game of trying to find which hymn writer lived the longest (their year of birth and death is often beside their name). I think Frances Crosby is close to the longest lived. From memory 1820-1915.

  • kensei

    Turgon

    This is the problem. Fundamentalists accept all who profess they have accepted Jesus have actually done so, when you do not need to look to history to know that it isn’t the case they all have true faith. So they accept these people as “Christian” on face value, and normally most Protestant denominations whereas they do not accept Catholics on the same basis. The difference between that and Catholic thinking isn’t all that different: Protestants are not automatically damned. But the difference in attitude and the insistence on placing you on a lesser state to other denominations can cause great offence.

    My main problem with fundamentalism are

    1. they often seem to presume to know final judgment, which rests with God alone.
    2. the presumption of salvation. I believe in Jesus. I try my best to follow the teachings as per my understanding. But I would never claim I was guaranteed to go to Heaven. God is just: it is enough.
    3. There often seems to be a rigid application and a lack of compassion without which Christianity is meaningless. Jesus berates people throughout the Bible for placing the letter of the law above the spirit. The law was made for man, not man for the law.

    Actually, I also object to the term “Fundamentalists”. Catholics take the story of the Last Supper very fundamentally indeed, we just reckon Genesis was more of a parable.

  • RepublicanStones

    it seems i have an admirer, republicanstoned you know they say imitation is the highest form of flattery, so i thank you (blush)

    Mr Bingham, i too was gutted to find you were only having a laugh, the fire you ignited in this irish ‘upstarts belly’ with your posts was sadly ‘gavisconed’ !

    Willow, as one previous poster said, you know fine and well who Joe Duffy is, you just wish to portray a super, untainted unionist pure aura, by not listening to RTE, or even having it, even though its widely available in the north. i for one am happy to recieve as many mediums of information as possible. you see a simple google would have explained to you who Joe Duffy was, and your smart enough to know this but in your wishing to present the super-unionist persona, you forgot to account for this lapse and so its now pretty obvious what your intention was….you super-unionist you !

  • Turgon

    kensei,
    Fair criticisms indeed. Fundamentalists are often extremely bad at PR. I think they see it as almost lying. As an example: You will only know David McIlveen as the man who opposes gays. I know him as the man who got up at 5am on Sunday morning to come to see my dying aunt in hospital who had not (for health reasons) darkened the church door in more than five years.

    On your points
    1. You are quite right God alone judges and knows. Fundamentalists do indeed believe this and are extremely bad at telling people.

    2. Salvation is the gift of God throught Jesus alone. The point above covers it.

    3. Again a very fair criticism. Actually most fundamentalists I know are not terribly judgemental but again the PR is appaling.

    I think they feel they must proclaim the message in stark terms because time is of the essence. I do, however, agree that we are often very poor at it. Do remember, however, it is a strak and essentially unpopular message which is in essence that many people will go to a lost eternity. As such some people will always shoot the messenger.

  • erend

    “is there any christian sect still running today that predates the RC church? Like I say I’m an athiest, though from a baptist background I might add, but I do remember some things from the school mandatory RE classes.”

    Orthodox and Coptic both predate Roman Catholicism. Both are still going very strong indeed. More obscure sects also exist, but I’ll leave them for later.

  • Harry Flashman

    These holders in weird religious beliefs are always great fun but as other posters have pointed out it is very dangerous that they be allowed to hold public office or express their beliefs on public airwaves (why by the way is it too hard to believe that there are people in Northern Ireland who don’t listen to RTE? Does everyone in the south tune avidly to Radio Ulster? Do nationalists in the North tweak their dials to be able to pick up Radio Leicester?).

    However I should warn you that adhering to crackpot religious ideas is not unique to public office holders among Unionists, I must warn our Nationalist friends that the same sinister trends occur in the Republic. I have it on good authority that many government ministers believe that all around Ireland day in day out men are able to conjure up the very flesh and blood of Jesus Christ out of bread and wine. Not a symbol of His flesh and blood, but His [i]actual[/i] body and blood, and they then eat and drink it! Amazing isn’t it?

    Apparently believers in this cult are involved in the very highest levels of Irish government and society, most of the cabinet, the taoiseach and indeed even the president are thought to hold these outrageous beliefs!

    What to do? Ban them perhaps? Expose their beliefs to ridicule? I’m not sure but, I’d welcome advice from all Irish Nationalists and Republicans about this dreadful situation.

  • The Dowie

    Idiots. Scavenging over the carcass of a long dead Judean hoping that a blessing exists within it.

  • USA

    I picked up early on that Robert Bingham was only joking and was absolutely in tears of laughter, fantastic stuff.
    “Sean (I hurt my fingers typing that name)” was merely one of many.
    His adoration of Elizabeth also seemed to grow with each post. Mark Fartlighter’s story about the guy in the bar was great too.

  • USA

    I think its possible that Willowfield genuinely does not know who Joe Duffy is.
    I don’t.

  • pith

    It shows how much Northern Ireland has changed that we are now reduced to the DUP sending its political advisors onto Talk Radio shows to express such views. Time was when the leader himself could get close enough to the Pope to yell his Antichrist nonsense directly. Who says devolution has given Northern Ireland more sway?

  • Dec, when you start to use a “trusty sword of logic” in your posts, I will check the weather forecast by the sweet Angie Phillips to see if hell has indeed frozen over.

  • Dec

    I will check the weather forecast by the sweet Angie Phillips to see if hell has indeed frozen over.

    Not exactly frozen over, but I believe there will be sleet and cold winds in Portadown today.

  • willowfield

    RepublicanStones

    Willow, as one previous poster said, you know fine and well who Joe Duffy is, you just wish to portray a super, untainted unionist pure aura, by not listening to RTE, or even having it, even though its widely available in the north.

    1. I don’t know who Joe Duffy is: I had never heard of him until this thread. (That’s why I asked.)

    2. I don’t have RTE television – as is the case with many people in NI (unless they have one of those big aerials or subscribe to Virgin Media cable TV). (I did use to have it, but then I switched from cable to Freeview.)

    3. I can receive RTE radio, but I never listen to it.

  • Brian Crowe

    Erend, you said:

    “The Lutheran church, that evil Church that doominates Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark and Iceland recognises as part of it’s litergy [sic] that the Pope is the biblical Anti-Christ.

    The idea that the Pope is the Biblical anti-Christ is actually not some pre-occupation of wackos but pretty mainstream and established Protestantism”.

    Your view of Lutheranism is far from an accurate portrayal.

    Yes, Lutheran confessions dating from the time of the Reformation, do critique the papacy as the anti-christ. This was a well-established convention of church history. Rival popes similarly threw the allegation at one another during middle ages – and Catholic apologists also described Luther in such terms. Take your pic then. Avignon popes, Mohammed, Luther – all were called anti-Christs.

    The important point is that we should let the Lutheran tradition speak for itself – rather than assume that Ulster evangelicals know best.

    The World Lutheran Federation and the RC Church have published a joint statement on justification (a key dispute of the Reformation era) and the work of the Nordic Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue is ongoing. Lutheranism clearly does not share the worldview of Ulster fundamentalism.

    To describe the views of Wallace Thompson et al as representing such mainstream Protestant views is,therefore, inaccurate at best.

    And, perhaps even worse in the eyes of some, the Nordic Lutheran Churches recently entered into full communion with us Anglicans. Imagine that.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Harry

    He claimed and still claims that he can’t get RTE. I have a simple ariel on my luxurious big mobile home near Portpatrick in Galloway. I get RTE almost as good as the local channels, even the gaelic channel is not so bad a reception. It’s akin people not admitting that they have been to Portpatrick because the word Patrick is in it…………….far too fenian!

    Loved your expose of Transubstantiation btw, have you finally gone the whole hog and joined the OO?

  • erend

    @Brian Crowe

    I’m not saying that the Lutheran church are identical to Ulster evangelicals (who incidentally do not all agree amongst themselves) however the Lutheran church believes that the antichrist referred to in the Book of Revelation is the Papacy. I notice that you have not denied this.

    For example,
    http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=579
    Chosen because it’s in English rather than some nordic foreign tongue.

    I would refer you to the analogy above about C. S Lewis refering to “gentlemen”. The antichrist is a technical term and Lutherans believe that the Pope is technically the antichrist. End of.

    You can garnish that whatever way you want but that is that. If your view of the term owes more to the film “The Omen” than a more technical theological discussion then that’s not my fault.

  • kensei

    Turgon

    “Salvation is the gift of God through Jesus alone. The point above covers it.”

    Quite. Perhaps I misunderstand though, but the assumption of fundamentalists seems to be that they are “saved”, without doubt.

    Due to the whole faith versus works thing, Catholics tend to not have that type of certainty, merely the promise that they are on the correct path to salvation.

    I think it is the absolute certainty in themselves combines with doubt in Catholics may be “Christian” taht winds people up.

  • willowfield

    Prince Eoghan

    You merely reveal your own sectarianism in assuming that I am lying about not being able to receive RTE because I am sectarian. You are, in fact, attributing your own sectarianism to me (there’s a word for that which currently escapes me).

    Perhaps it didn’t occur to you that it doesn’t necessarily follow that because you can receive RTE in Portpatrick that therefore everyone in Northern Ireland must receive it.

    No-one like’s a smart-arse, and especially one in Scotland who thinks he knows more about Northern Ireland than the people who actually live there.

    For your information (again), RTE is not receivable terrestrially in large parts of Northern Ireland, including that part in which I live, unless one purchases an additional, more powerful, aerial.

    I cannot receive BBC Scotland or STV either, but presumably you don’t think I’m lying when I say that, even though there are some people in Northern Ireland who can receive such channels.

    I suggest that you withdraw your accusations of sectarianism.

  • Turgon

    The certainty thing is indeed difficult. Fundamentalist Protestants who have accepted Christ should indeed have no doubt that they are saved (through no merit of their own). However, I know that many do have doubts at times.

    I suspect people are often not honest enough about their own doubts.

  • willowfield

    From Wikipedia

    Reception of Republic of Ireland Terrestrial Channels in Northern Ireland

    Many, but by no means all, areas of Northern Ireland can receive the four analogue channels listed above using a high gain UHF aerial. Under the Belfast Agreement (Good Friday Agreement) RTÉ were to boost signal strength at their Clermont Carn UHF transmitter in Co. Louth to allow better reception of their channels in Northern Ireland. In addition, RTÉ built a low power UHF transmitter on Holywell Hill in Co. Donegal to serve North Donegal, but as the transmitter site overlooks the City of Derry, the city gets the Irish terrestrial channels also. All the channels (except TV3 Ireland) are now available on Sky Digital to Northern Ireland subscribers (but not Great Britain subscribers) without additional charge but with certain programmes (such as live English football) blocked with the message: This programme is not available.”

  • Greenflag

    Reading this debate such that it is or was is sad indeed nay even pathethic apart from the humourous wind up. I’m reminded of medieval theologians arguing over how many angels can fit on the point of a pin or the two gobishites I met a long time ago in Conamara who started a fight over whether a small insect was a midge or a midget 🙁

    Get real lads . This is all there is . No heaven no hell just the little bit of heaven or hell yiz create for yerselves on earth . The Bible is a marvellous history of the interaction between a jealous power crazy super being and his disobedient chosen people (Part 1) and the follying upper (Part 2) is about a mythical Sun who was the same as his even more mythical father who had to be crucified because that way he could rise again like the Sun does every day !

    Maybe yiz should have a debate something a bit more down to earth e.g how many of the 5.5 million dead Congolese in their current uncivil war will make it to heaven/hell ?

    *&*@#^&*

  • Greenflag

    ‘I suspect people are often not honest enough about their own doubts. ‘

    True enough . Even Atheists have the same problem .

    Faith is very often believing what you know ain’t true as a wise man once said.

    And if ye think that the ‘theological’ differences between RC’s and Protestants are absured then spare a thought for the Ayatollah mad Sunni’s and Shiite’s of Islam who trace their bloody differences to a dispute over an ‘uncle’ of Mohammed .

    Human beings are not always rational creatures at the best of times but there is nothing like a fanatical ‘faith’ to turn said creatures into saints or sadists or both simultaneously!

  • Yvonne

    The Who possesses Joe Duffy

  • Prince Eoghan

    >>I suggest that you withdraw your accusations of sectarianism.< < Would never dream of such a thing Willow, accusing you of sectarianism that is. Perhaps you do have the worst ariel in the world, much worse than the cheap, basic excuse for one I have in Portpatrick. Which I would reckon is a lot further away from the nearest RTE transmitter than you. However this is all supposition. >>No-one like’s a smart-arse, and especially one in Scotland who thinks he knows more about Northern Ireland than the people who actually live there.<< I gave testimony about how I could receive RTE, and wondered how anyone from the occupied six counties could not, tis all. I suggest you withdraw your remarks about no-one liking a smart-arse, especially one that lives in Scotland. Though I do admit I know nada about this Norn Ireland place. Deary me!

  • willowfield

    Would never dream of such a thing Willow, accusing you of sectarianism that is.

    You didn’t dream of it: you did it. You accused me of lying and implied that I was lying because I would not wish to admit to receiving RTE because it was “far too fenian”.

    You have revealed yourself to be sectarian by assuming the above.

    Perhaps you do have the worst ariel in the world, much worse than the cheap, basic excuse for one I have in Portpatrick. Which I would reckon is a lot further away from the nearest RTE transmitter than you. However this is all supposition.

    I don’t have “the worst “ariel” in the world: I have a modern one which I upgraded last year. That doesn’t, however, mean that I can receive RTE signals, BBC Scotland signals, STV signals, Border TV signals, or any signals other than those transmitted from the Divis transmitter.

    And distance, of course, isn’t the only factor which affects the transmission of television signals.

    Laugh off your sectarianism if you want, but your comments and accusations have made it apparent.

  • Prince Eoghan

    How to you come to the scenario that I must be sectarian for implying that you were sectarian? eh!!!!!!!!! And I don’t think you are sectarian at all, in the least, not a bit of it. After all how can someone who loves Daniel O’Donnell music so, be sectarian. No, not you Willow, although some people may think it not me, ok. Klar!

    >>And distance, of course, isn’t the only factor which affects the transmission of television signals.<< And now you are going to tease us about where you live, just like with the football club you support. Ok, I am not going to imply anything here but come right out with it. Willow, you are a big girls blouse of a tease! And I note you have not withdrawn your remark about Smart-arses, from Scotland. I may be from Scotland, but a smart-arse?!?! How dare you? ps. Is it the Sperrins you are?

  • Democratic

    To Prince,
    I would consider myself a small “u” Unionist to quote Newton Emerson and I must admit myself that I hadn’t heard of Joe Duffy until recently myself – he sounds to be somewhat of a controversial figure in the Southern media? – believe it or not a lot of moderate Northern prods don’t really take much notice of the Southern media as they don’t see them as relevant in the same way as some people don’t bother with say the Guardian I suppose (not suggesting anything there BTW)- horses for courses and all that. The separate lives amongst us’uns & them’uns easily permits this which obviously seems to you to be highly improbable – it is however quite true I assure you.

    I also have a standard TV ariel myself and a Skybox which gets me most freeview channels (I’m a bit tight you see..) so much less pick up RTE – I can’t even get channel five… a booster would be required – this is true.

    I will further embarrass myself by admitting that Podge and Rodge are only a very recent addition to my mental dictionary…. The point I am trying to make to Prince is that what Willowfield is saying really isn’t far fetched – factually what he says is completely true I’m afraid…regardless of anything being too “Feinan” – which really is a cheap shot to me.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Democratic

    Knowing Joe Duffy isn’t the issue, or taking notice of the Irish media. I don’t doubt the veracity of anything Willow says at all, he has a reputation of being a straight talker who does not equivocate on anything, much. I get RTE channels loud’n’clear over the water here, tis all I am saying. Where abouts are you? and do others not get RTE at all?

    Now to Podge and Rodge, wtf are they?

  • Brian Crowe

    Erend

    First of all, no – my understanding of the theological and historical use of ‘anti-christ’ is not shaped by the filim ‘The Omen’. (Nice patronising touch, though.)

    In your original post you mentioned the Nordic Lutheran churches – LCMS is, obviously, not Nordic. Nor is it representative of wider Lutheranism.

    As for denying that Lutheranism regards the papacy as the anti-christ, I would have assumed that was obvious from the references I made to the close, warm ecumenical relationships between the Nordic Lutheran churches and Rome.

    “The antichrist is a technical term and Lutherans believe that the Pope is technically the antichrist. End of.” No – not end of. That is exactly the point. The ongoing dialogue between Lutheranism and Rome has moved on, very far on, from the language and disputes of the 16th century.

    From a Lutheran perspective – especially a Nordic Lutheran perspective – there is now a convergence between Lutheran and Roman Catholic views on justification and the eucharist. That, I suggest, quite firmly indicates that Lutheranism is not bound by a 16th usage of the term ‘anti-christ’.

  • Democratic

    I’m in North Belfast Prince – off Whitewell – do you know it? I have to say that my sarcasm meter reading is still in the red but however…
    The aerial business is all true I promise – anyone else willing to comment?…
    P.S. Podge & Rodge are a big smash down South – supposed to be very funny I hear – an adultesque puppet show from the boys that used to do Zig & Zag – remember them from the Big Breakfast….

  • Prince Eoghan

    Don’t know that far up at all Democratic. Surprised that you can’t get RTE there, in the summer I am what 40-50 miles to the east in Portpatrick and I can get it. Honestly my ariel is shite, blows about in the wind and all sorts.

  • Greenflag

    ‘From a Lutheran perspective – especially a Nordic Lutheran perspective’

    Which is the perspective of about 15 people spread between Norway and Denmark with the last remaining Church attending Swedish Lutheran having recently demised 🙂

    Catch yerselves on lads . Europe doesn’t do religion apart from a few oul farts here and those who still have illusions of a great heaven magician hiding behind the clouds . Unfortuantely these thickos are somewhat thicker on the ground in Norn Iron and even thicker above ground 🙁

    Any dialogue between Lutheranism and Catholicism is as relevant to today’s Europe as a discussion between Shintoists and Buddhists on the prospects for both faiths in Rio De Janeiro.

  • republicanstoned

    republicanstones

    “it seems i have an admirer, republicanstoned you know they say imitation is the highest form of flattery, so i thank you (blush)”

    No, I am republicanstoned. No admiration or imitation, so please don´t flush or feel flatterd, just continue to amuse with your twisted bigotry.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “If the Pope is the Anti-Christ then there have certainly been a lot of Anti-Christs!

    I thought there was only going to be one.”

    Actually no. The Westminster Confession calls him “Antichrist” i.e. opposed to Christ, and does not limit that position to one person. Osama Bin laden, Luke Skywalker, the Dalai lama and Ami Winehouse are thus technically antichrist too. I’d have thought the Holy father wouldn’t have minded being associated with such company :0)

  • RepublicanStones

    republicanstoned, lay off the reefers !

  • Billy Pilgrim

    The Watchman

    “Do we still have free speech in this country or not?”

    I have heard no reports about Mr Thompson being arrested. Has he? Has he been legally deprived of his life, liberty, livelihood or legal rights as a result of his statement? If not, then there is no issue of freedom of speech here. Being roundly criticised for views expressed is not the same as being denied the right to express views.

    “And for what it’s worth, I agree with Mr Thompson about the Pope being the Antichrist, but I don’t think that makes me a bad person.”

    I think it probably does, to be honest.

    Though more likely it’s the other way around – your belief that the Pope is the anti-Christ is merely symptomatic of that fact that you are one sick puppy to begin with.

  • Butterknife

    I am to understand that all the DUP old guard, and i am sure that includes Paisley, are dismayed that a publican has been selected to run as the DUP candidate in the Dromore by-election.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Turgon

    “Now that particular fundamentalist argument follows that since the pope claims to be the “Vicar of Christ” and indeed claims to be an interceeder between man and God then such a person puts themself in the place of Christ (The one whom Protestants believe is the only mediator between God and man). As such the pope putting himself in Christ’s place is an anti-Christ.”

    I don’t think this necessarily follows. The Pope may claim to be Vicar of Christ etc but that’s still a very far cry from claiming to actually be the Christ. Indeed the title clearly implies that he’s NOT Christ.

    And after all, Christ IS God, not a mere messenger or interceder. Right?

    Among the many titles the Pope claims are:
    Bishop of Rome;
    Vicar of Christ;
    Successor of the Prince of the Apostles;
    Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church;
    Primate of Italy;
    Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province;
    Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City;
    Servant of the Servants of God.

    You won’t find any suggestion in there that the Pope wants us to think of him as Christ. And clearly the Pope isn’t averse to taking titles, so if he wants us to think that, he’s certainly being uncharacteristically coy about it.

    If all fundamentalist Protestants wish to suggest is that the Pope IS NOT Christ, then I’m sure they’ll be relieved to hear that there probably isn’t a single Catholic on the face of the Earth who disagrees – even yer man in the Vatican makes no such claim.

    Maybe it’d be more accurate to call him the anti-Vicar of Christ?

    But calling him “anti-Christ”?

    You’re not the Christ, the Messiah, are you Turgon? Neither is the Pope. You don’t claim to be Christ. Neither does the Pope. I’m not going to call you “anti-Christ” though.

    That’d just be nasty and totally uncalled-for.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Darth

    “The Westminster Confession calls him “Antichrist” i.e. opposed to Christ, and does not limit that position to one person.”

    Doesn’t “AntiChrist” just mean “not Christ”?

    And therefore, isn’t everyone except Christ an AntiChrist?

    And isn’t definition utterly meaningless?

  • Turgon

    Billy Pilgrim,

    I am not certain on this but I think anti in this context means takes the place of or instead of. As such the theory is that the pope by claiming to be a mediator between God and man is taking the place of Christ and for that reason is “anti”christ.

    In fairness it is not something I have a great interest in but that is my understanding of the position.

  • Rory

    I do wish we would all cease this foolish diversion into theological semantics and the reception of broadcasting signals. This is clearly a matter of of higher import. This is grungy nerdishness, man!

    Is this geezer Thompson gay or what? Doesn’t he have teenage children to set him straight?

    “Right, kids, the Pope’s the Anti-Christ, right? Have no dealings with him. OK?”

    “Who is he, dad? What’s he do?”

    “He’s the leader of the Catholics”.

    KIDS (alone together): “The Catholics, right. Gotta check them out. The lead used to be with the Sex Pistols. Cool!”

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Turgon,

    I hope you are condemning these ridiculous remarks as sectarian? You appear to be attempting to downplay their seriousness and sectarian nature by putting forward a dry technical explanation. In the conext of the realities of life in non iron and the background of the community from which this politician comes these remarks are in keeping with Unionist politicians talking a language of outright intolerance and bigotry that no else in Ireland or Britian have anything in common with. Is it any wonder that Unioists feel isolated and have few friends in outside world where everyone else has moved on from the 17th century.

  • joeCanuck

    “And isn’t definition this thread utterly meaningless?”

  • Harry Flashman

    [b]Prince Eoghan[/b]

    Your reception is clearly linked to the fact that you are getting it on the coast (I’m right in saying that ‘Port’patrick is on the coast?) whereas the other posters live in a built up city. So it is that people living in the east coast of Ireland can pick up Welsh tv on their aerials but can’t receive the Northern Ireland channels (before cable), whereas people living in Manchester can’t pick up Welsh tv.

    So it is that in my youth I couldn’t receive Scottish radio in Derry but drive a few miles up the road to Inis Eoghan (your sort of place I would have thought) and Scottish radio comes in loud and clear but the signal from BBC Radio 1 died away (pre-FM).

    [i]have you finally gone the whole hog and joined the OO?[/i]

    No much better than that, I’m a Muslim.

  • Conor in Korea

    Free speech is one of the greatest myths of the western world. Public servants should keep their pathetic backward notions to themselves or their congregation. No-one else gives a toss, and it’s only those who enjoy being offended will give it the time of day.

    As for RTE, I used to live on the Ormeau Road in South Belfast and couldn’t get a whiff of it from my ariel, yet my auntie in the West got a perfect picture. It’s to do with the fact Belfast is in a valley, but most of the West is on a hill apparently. Go figure. Hadn’t a clue who Joe Duffy was either and I’m a nationalist. Just think RTE is crap, is all.

    Yer man Robert was funny, 9 nine county ulster should take some tips in trolling off him.

    Don’t know about the Pope being the anti-Christ but could someone ask him to stop his minions running around AIDs infested areas of Africa telling the faithful that condoms are the devil’s balloons?

  • Prince Eoghan

    >>No much better than that, I’m a Muslim.<< salaam aleikum! Aye, I'll grudgingly admit that explanation sounds reasonable re-reception. Fair do's! I think some of us owe the Willow an apology. Sorry Willow for being a smart-arse..............from Scotland!

  • eranu

    ive attended a bible study class that spent many months going through revelation . you really need these sorts of classes taken by someone with detailed historical knowledge of the time. it was absolutely fascinating, mind blowing.

    anyways, the anti Christ is likely to be a global political leader. someone who will be able to bring peace between Christian and Muslim etc. its also interesting to note in the EU HQ there are pictures of the ‘woman riding a beast’. a well known anti christ related fact.

    Heres one for all you catholics out there- apparitions of mary are also thought to be satanic, not mary herself ofcourse, just the apparitions and what they say. Basically they promise salvation through her, whereas Jesus said that salvation is only possible through him. Lots of other stuff on the web about that one to show how what these apparitions say contradicts what Jesus said. It puts organisations like the ‘legions of mary’ into a totally different light. Imagine millions of people around the world following ‘mary’ for salvation when all the time they have been deceived by satan himself???

    Fascinating stuff whether you believe it or not, that’s just a fraction of 1% of whats in revelation.

    Have to go. Have a nice weekend, and please, don’t have nightmares ! 🙂

  • Prince Eoghan

    >>‘woman riding a beast’.<< Lol! Not sure how much leeway Mick would give me over this, but my erse is makin buttons to comment on it. Thanks to eranu for discovering that I have been a satan worshiper all these years. Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Harry Flashman

    W’aleikum salaam.

    Allahu Akbhar!

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Turgon

    “I am not certain on this but I think anti in this context means takes the place of or instead of. As such the theory is that the pope by claiming to be a mediator between God and man is taking the place of Christ and for that reason is “anti”christ.”

    But I ask again: how is claiming to be an intermediary between man and God the same as claiming to be the Christ? It simply isn’t.

    After all, what is the Christ? Christ IS God, not a mere intermediary. The Pope makes no claim to be the Christ.

    Come on, be honest – this “Pope as anti-Christ” argument is a bit of rhetorical violence dreamed up in the context of the religious wars of the 17th century.

    And oddly enough, these days NI is the last place on earth where it’s still taken seriously, where people actually invest time in constructing these ridiculous arguments.

    You don’t think it might be something to do with politics, with earthly context, do you?

  • Yvonne

    ‘woman riding a beast’

    I saw this on Sky 432 as well!

    Her name was Kirsty Milczarek.

  • Rory

    ‘woman riding a beast’

    Her name was Kirsty Milczarek – Yvonne

    I don’t think so, Yvonne. It’s HM the Queen at the Trooping of the Colour. I should know, I’ve got her on the lid of me biscuit tin.

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    I heard the interview on Joe Duffy. Although Wallace Thompson was sincere and candid about his religious views he came across as an extremely rigid fundamentalist, stuck in the past, hell bent in believing in an archaic ideology. Such made him rather arrogant and domineering. It hit home to me again why the troubles in Northern Ireland has lingered for so long. Many Protestants callers from the south, aka Eire, rang in horrified at Wallace Thompson’s comments. They too stated why the troubles have lingered in Northern Ireland for so long, ie religion.

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    BTW, according to the Scriptures, that literal trustworthy guide for all Christian fundamentalists, there is no mention of the pope being the anti-Christ. In fact there is no mention of a pope at all in the bible bar St Peter, the ‘rock’ on whom the church is built as it says, (and not the Hollywood tough guy actor).