Barack: They said this day would never come….


BAD news for Hillary Clinton, coming third in the Democratic caucus in Iowa. Just watched a pretty passionate victor’s speech from Barack Obama – it’s only 4am here – emphasising American unity, healthcare reform and an end to the war in Iraq. Over on the Republican side of the fence, Mike Huckabee has defeated Mormon Mitch Romney in Iowa. On a tangent, while Mick has already alluded to Romney’s problems with the Bible belt, one of our local Free Presbyterian fundies has pointed to some secret outreach he’s been up to with Paisley’s alma mater.

  • Jo, it’s news to me that I support the shooting of Catholic PSNI officers. Would you care to back that allegation up with evidence?

    Dewi, it’s a mystery to me why anyone who claims to be of the left would support McCain, given that he gets an 83% lifetime rating from the American Conservatives Union. He’s pretty solidly right-wing, atypical positions on a very small number of issues notwithstanding.

  • Dewi

    Wed – I mean the best of the Republican candidates. Like his life story and his work on migration and campaign funding.

  • the best of the Republican candidates

    I think that is what is known as “damning with faint praise”!

    Anyway Giuliani’s track record puts him well to the left of McCain. Although both are going to have to run to the right if they really want to secure the nomination.

  • Jo

    Sorry, Wednesday. if I misrepresented you as a dissident repubican, the main activities of which in recent times have focussed ob trying to kill police.

    Its an impression gained from youur blogging. If you don’t support violent “resistance/struggle” its not terribly clear from what you’ve blogged. Of course, if you’ve evidence contradicting that, happy to retract.

    Back on subject: I become more convinmced daily that the Right/racist prejudice against Obama is disintegrating. After all, if the Right can’t unite against a black skinned *Muslim* what hope is there for them?

    Bastards. They’ve had their way for 8 years and murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and if they had their way, Iranians, too.

  • Back when the world was young, OK — last Thursday — , this thread was:

    Barack: They said this day would never come….

    Since then we have Aliced down every rabbit-hole around (and, yes, mea culpa, too).

    However, I must have missed some reference to Jonathan Raban’s extended piece in yesterday’s Guardian, Good news in bad times, if only for the second paragraph:

    At the University of Chicago law school, famous for its faculty of conservative jurists, Obama, senior lecturer in constitutional law, is still listed as being on leave of absence. Six miles from the university on Chicago’s far south side, in the nondescript, low-rent, mostly low-rise neighbourhood of Brainerd, is Trinity United Church of Christ, which Obama attends and where his pastor, the Rev Dr Jeremiah Wright, apostle of black liberation theology, delivers magnificently cranky sermons on how the “African diaspora” struggles under the yoke of the “white supremacists” who run the “American empire”.

    A further example:

    Obama is cagey, in a lawyerly way, about the supernatural claims of religion. Recounting a conversation about death that he had with one of his two young daughters, he wrote, “I wondered whether I should have told her the truth, that I wasn’t sure what happens when we die, any more than I was sure of where the soul resides or what existed before the big bang.” So I think we can take it that he doesn’t believe – or doesn’t exactly believe – in the afterlife or the creation.

    Worth the trip, if contributors here can maintain concentration for longer than a gnat, and their keyboards similarly away from the vitriol.

  • Of course, if you’ve evidence contradicting that, happy to retract.

    No Jo that’s not how it works. You made the allegation, you provide the evidence.

    After all, if the Right can’t unite against a black skinned *Muslim* what hope is there for them?

    They haven’t had to unite against him yet.

  • Dewi

    Thanks Malcolm – this also good on effect of 1968 on this election.
    40 year itch
    “Tom Brokaw’s new book, “Boom!”, is a virtual reunion of the class of ’68 (the high point is a photograph of the young Dick Cheney astride a motorbike and wearing shades)” The mind boggles.

  • Bob From Boston

    Wilde..
    ‘Romney is a flip flopper. He will say whatever the latest focus group tell him, and if he gets the nomination the Republican Party will implode.’

    You are referring to facts not in evidence. He’s the best of the bunch.

  • Harry Flashman

    *They’ve had their way for 8 years and murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis*

    The death toll in the current Iraq conflict is probably substantially less than one hundred thousand people (try to ignore hysterical propaganda) 99.9% of the murder victims have been murdered by fellow Muslims, so completely inaccurate on two counts Jo, but hey when did that ever stop you, eh?

  • Bob From Boston

    Dewi..

    My tribe didn’t get here until the ’20s so I won’t be paying reparations to anyone. But I am all for giving any legitimate Native American a tax free, any education, interest free business loan, casino license life. I have had some experience with their plight and they are the only group here I would give carte blanche to. Unfortunately, swindle is a job description in this country so I would also be for gauntlet running for faux-indian crap.

  • susan

    As you’ve brought up the subject of the attention-span of gnats, Malcolm, does the Guardian article mention that free speech scholar, First Amendmen crusader Geoffery Stone has been on the faculty of the University of Chicago since 1973, and was Dean of the Law School for five years? I am guessing it does not, but I will go ahead and read it.

    Apparently, it is news to Jonathan Raban that church-attending parents raising children in a broken world wrestle with doubt. I assure you, it is not news to many church-attending parents raising children in a broken world.

    Watching what clips I can of last night’s debate in New Hampshire online — here’s a key excerpt —

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd8toeUkVzc

    I have to say I was very impressed by Edwards. There’s a very interesting article in today’s Washington Post — “What About Edwards” — that outlines Edwards difficulty in confronting the media’s inclination to cast this as a two man race. It also makes that the point that in a region of New Hampshire known for being nearly as progressive in its politics as Vermont, many are voting for Obama over Edwards because they believe he has the better chance of defeating Clinton.

    Reading through some of the debate, I have to say Hillary Clinton was the most unequivocal about when she would pull US troops out of Iraq. “Within 60 days of taking office,” was her promise. Do I believe her? Not sure, given the Clinton Administration’s upholding sanctions against Iraq and its decision to twice bomb the water filtration systems in Iraq, ostensibly targeting Hussein but in actuality having a disastrous impact on the lives of Iraq’s most vulnerable citizens, children and the elderly.

    Looking at the homepages for the three Democratic contenders, Clinton, Obama, and Edwards — quickly highlights Clinton’s difficulties. In the debate transcripts yesterday, she seemed to be claiming her husband’s legacy as her own, trumpeting her “thirty five years” of bringing about change. Yet while Edwards and Obama’s homepages feature beautiful photographs of themselves with their photogenic spouses and children, Hilary Clinton’s features an attractive photograph of the smiling candidate entirely on her own, and..shocking to me….NO WHERE even mentions the candidate’s last names, Rodham or Clinton, referring instead only to “Hilary” “Team Hillary” and “Hillary events.”

    Makes the semantic decision between “here” “the North” and “NI” look almost relaxing in comparison.

  • Bob From Boston

    Wilde,

    ‘I take it, Bob, you weren’t at the tea party.’

    Watch it when using that phrase in Mass. It’s more apt to describe a ‘social’ function held frequently in Provincetown in the summer. Co-opting historical phrases and rewriting history being so popular with the socialists and all.
    Not that that’s a bad thing…
    And there are more than a few sods I’d like to hurl into the harbor, strating with Beacon Hill, in it’s entirety ….

  • Bob From Boston

    *They’ve had their way for 8 years and murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis*

    _Nutter Alert_

    Useful idiocy at it’s best.
    http://tinyurl.com/g3ede

    This crap only comes out of the yourupean dhimmis
    now, have been beaten down with the facts here in the US.

  • Bob From Boston

    Jo,
    ‘Back on subject: I become more convinmced daily that the Right/racist prejudice against Obama is disintegrating. After all, if the Right can’t unite against a black skinned *Muslim* what hope is there for them?’

    Give me an example of the ‘Right/racist prejudice against Obama’. I’ve heard it from the Billary side, but not from any of my candidates.

    Are you just a useful idiot? Or do you actually research your opinions? I’d like some facts with your assertions…. You’re sounding a bit rabid..

  • Posted by Dewi @ 11:58 AM:

    Yes, I saw that Economist thing, too. Liked it. “Thin” post-holiday issue, mind, but some good stuff therein.

    So (as even the greatest poets start):

    1. “If you remember 1968, you weren’t there.” Must apply to Cheney, even. My conveyances of the time amounted to a Francis-Barnett, a Lambretta TV175, an NSU Prima (did all of 250 miles before termination on the A1 near Newark) and a Honda Dream, I have to admit.

    2. More interesting and relevant to this thread, unless McCain can resurrect it, this must be the first campaign of my life that nobody has raised the “military service as a qualification for the Presidency” issue.

    [Weary yawn]. No, susan @ 12:21 PM Raban singularly failed to drag in mention of Geof Stone (but see Stone’s latest blog entry, via huffingtonpost.com, on his first meeting with Obama). And, yep: I reckon there’re enough clues in that last sentence for the fire-and-brimstone merchants to descend on me.

    Now for the joys of Sainsbury’s. Aaagh!

  • susan

    Yawn away, Malcom. Nice to see you and “Geof” are now on a first name basis. Is this the link, Malcolm?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/an-obama-moment_b_79791.html

    It does nicely underline my point, that the University of Chicago is hardly Bob Jones University.

    You don’t quote from Raban’s conclusion, but I will. Not because I know it is prophetic, but rather because I hope it is:

    “Were Obama to become president, one might fairly look forward to the third branch of government becoming more ecumenical than it’s been in living memory, an administration of all the talents, drawn from the ranks of political opponents as well as party allies. Wright says that Jesus comes for the folk you love, yes, and the folk you can’t stand. Obama, in 2004, put the thought another way:

    “The pundits like to slice and dice our country into red states and blue States: red states for Republicans, blue States for Democrats. But I’ve got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the blue states, and we don’t like federal agents poking around our libraries in the red states. We coach little league in the blue states and, yes, we’ve got some gay friends in the red states.”

    In Obama’s sacralised “United States of America”, folk sit down with folk they thought they couldn’t stand – Republicans with Democrats, Americans with Iranians and Syrians. He’s managed to articulate this so persuasively that poll after poll shows his support mounting among registered Republicans, despite the fact that all his declared policies are far to the left of those of the present Republican party. In a speech in Iowa on December 27, he announced that he was out to “heal a nation and repair the world”. On Thursday even the rightwing Fox News showed an unprecedented (for a Democratic candidate) soft spot for him. It says a lot about the grievously damaged state of America now that even Republicans hunger to take Obama seriously.”

  • And at that moment, Slugger, or my OS, produces yet another of those ever-surprising and wholly-frustrating error messages:

    Database Error: Unable to connect to your database. Your database appears to be turned off or the database connection settings in your config file are not correct. Please contact your hosting provider if the problem persists.

    Too true …

    When I was in the habit of sending none-too-bright students in to face public examination, one of my last-minute messages was RTFM. Those who knew their computer slang giggled, but the message stuck: that acronym, in their and this case, stands for “read the full message“.

    Raban’s piece focuses on Obama’s rhetoric, and how he has adapted the style of a charismatic preacher, from a Black church in Chicago, to the wider political arena. And how that, as the dead metaphor has it, “resonates” with the wider contemporary audience. Raban also notes the two aspects of Obama: the studious and inhibited law professor, and his quite-remarkable podium presence.

    Now I have a cod-theory, derived from the late-night post-pub musings of one Bob Mitchell of Cionn Átha Gad in the County Westmeath, that the electorate goes ape about every forty years or so. Hence, in Britain, the Liberal landslide of 1906, the Labour ditto of 1945, Thatcher in 1979, Blair in 1997 (OK: so things are speeding up.) Could it be, could it just be that there is some similar political “long-wave” in US politics?

    In which case, as Martin Kettle, in the same issue of the Guardian, is saying (and, remember this is only the headline, so RTFM):

    Hillary is the candidate of retribution, not of hope
    Young voters want to end not only the Iraq war, but the US culture wars. They aim to move beyond Bush – and the Clintons

    Several paragraphs later (all worth the reading, mind) Kettle concludes, quite positively if not wholly conclusively in my opinion:

    And if that is right, then the 2008 election may yet be a watershed. If it takes the form of a Clinton-Giuliani contest it will simply intensify the toxic cycle of the past 40 years and all the demeaning Ann Coulter-Michael Moore stuff that it spawns. But if it takes a less traditionally partisan form, especially in the form of a now not inconceivable Obama-McCain contest, American politics may at last be able to wrench itself out of the destructive confrontationism of the recent past.

    Ah! we seem to be back in the land of living Sluggery, so …

  • Wilde Rover

    Bob,

    “You are referring to facts not in evidence. He’s the best of the bunch.”

    Romney campaigned to the left of Ted Kennedy on gay rights when he ran against him for the Senate. Today he is a strong opponent of gay marriages.

    As for his position on abortion, how many times has he changed his position on that?

  • Harry Flashman

    *It says a lot about the grievously damaged state of America now that even Republicans hunger to take Obama seriously.*

    No susan dear they really don’t, please don’t be taken in by the hype, the BBC and large sections of the mainstream American media may be busting their balls to push Obama as the great white hope, but he isn’t.

    He’s an inexperienced young man with a good line in windbaggery, no serious Republicans whatsoever are taken in by him, none, honestly. He’s an empty suit, there’s no substance there, waffling on about “hope” and “change” and “hopeful change” and “changing hope” does not a potential president make, that only happens in Hollywood.

    Nice and clear now, and you can all hold me to this come next year, but I am nailing my colours to the mast; there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that Barack Obama will be elected president in 2008. Who knows, after a few years when he actually proves he is a man of substance this might change, but not now, no chance, absolutely none.

  • Bob From Boston

    Wilde..
    Facts in evidence being the operative phrase.

    My favorite debate analysis.

    ‘Romney: Winner, possibly big winner. Demonstrated clear grasp of the issues, turned attacks to his advantage, dispelled the notion that his positions are tactical by explaining them better than anyone else could. Made McCain look bad. Deficiency? Didn’t play Eruption lead guitar solo.’

    “I Thought That Mitt Romney Won The debate.”
    http://tinyurl.com/32df6s

    Food for thought.

  • Harry Flashman @ 02:56 PM

    That post has convinced me to seek further for a proper place to rest my liberal hopes. He is one who:

    has a lot in common with one party’s leading candidates — the Democrats — and not so much with the other’s. Indeed, on issues like gay marriage and gun control, [he] stands well to the left of top-tier Democratic candidates like Hillary Rodham Clinton, John Edwards and Barack Obama.

    That, of course, is Mike Bloomberg, as in Nicholas Confessore’s piece in today’s New York Times.

  • Jo

    Hmm..I don’t feel the need to defend my thesis against violent Irish Repubicans and rabid US Republicans. I shall adopt the position of the (wo)man sitting by the river who eventually sees the bodies of their enemies float by…

  • Jo

    The entire contest defies the notion of the best candidate for the post – as it is confined to Americans. (ooops!:))

    But, slightly more seriously, this isn’;t a run of the mill Head Of State job.

    As in effect the postholder is President of the World, shouldn’t the rest of us have a proxy vote? 🙂

  • Bob From Boston

    Jo..

    Sadly, if your ideology triumphs, the reality will be that the bodies of your friends will be floating by.

  • Harry Flashman

    Malcolm

    Bloomberg is certainly a wild card, he could finance a presidential campaign from the loose change down behind his sofa cushions. I don’t think he could win but by heck he could play merry hell with the race. I think he’d take more votes off the Democrat candidate than the Republicans but as Perot in ’92 and Nader in ’00 showed never underestimate the power of a third horse.

    As I said earlier this is shaping up to be the most fascinating US election in generations, well if you’re a bit of a political anorak like me it is anyway.

  • Jo

    “He’s an inexperienced young man with a good line in windbaggery”

    ..combined with Susan’s earlier:

    “Obama has the most crossover appeal to independents and Republicans”

    ..may well remain the best quotes for this years contest. Me? I’m waiting the “ace” political pundit D. Vance’s prediction: whoever he picks won’t stand an earthly. Slainte, Mr Power! 🙂

  • Bob From Boston

    Bloomberg……….gaaaack… Google that wanker and have a read.
    Sadly, Bozo the Clown has passed on, or the Dems would have him stumping for the child vote.

  • Bob From Boston

    ‘Obama Shows the Audacity to Exaggerate & Make Stuff Up’

    Can’t argue with facts in evidence now, can we.

    http://tinyurl.com/3dwhs6

    Good news..
    I’m off to my American football playoff pre-game ritual. Good craic!!

  • Harry Flashman

    In the spirit of the debate I’d love to link Andrew Sullivan’s column in the Sunday Times comparing Obama to Reagan but as I simply do not understand the instructions below about how to create a link I can’t do so.

    Try Googling it and in the meantime could someone explain in words of two syllables or less to this hopeless old troglodyte how to post a link in this forum?

  • Dewi

    a href=”http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/barack-they-said-this-day-would-never-come/P125/”>like that

    Like that with a < right at start Harry - like I'm an expert.

  • Harry Flashman @ 03:44 PM:

    Yes: you’re referring to the ineffable Andrew (but today promoted to the Simon Jenkins slot): there are certain parallels in what he says and what some of us have been mooting here over recent days. He’s already waxed lyrical about his crush on Obama from his dais at The Atlantic, with the conclusion:

    If you believe that America’s current crisis is not a deep one, if you think that pragmatism alone will be enough to navigate a world on the verge of even more religious warfare, if you believe that today’s ideological polarization is not dangerous, and that what appears dark today is an illusion fostered by the lingering trauma of the Bush presidency, then the argument for Obama is not that strong. Clinton will do. And a Clinton-Giuliani race could be as invigorating as it is utterly predictable.

    But if you sense, as I do, that greater danger lies ahead, and that our divisions and recent history have combined to make the American polity and constitutional order increasingly vulnerable, then the calculus of risk changes. Sometimes, when the world is changing rapidly, the greater risk is caution. Close-up in this election campaign, Obama is unlikely. From a distance, he is necessary. At a time when America’s estrangement from the world risks tipping into dangerous imbalance, when a country at war with lethal enemies is also increasingly at war with itself, when humankind’s spiritual yearnings veer between an excess of certainty and an inability to believe anything at all, and when sectarian and racial divides seem as intractable as ever, a man who is a bridge between these worlds may be indispensable.

    We may in fact have finally found that bridge to the 21st century that Bill Clinton told us about. Its name is Obama.

    Hmm. That comes across to me as glossy and hollow as Sullivan’s carefully-sculpted wikipedia entry.

    Now for your other problem. Can I suggest a work-round, which is down-and-dirty, but seems to get there?

    1. Sign up for one of the “free” blogging sites: WordPress seems to work, while Blogger seems to throw up rather more coding peculiarities.
    2. At this point it helps to have two browser windows open: one for Slugger, the other for composing in WordPress.
    3. Compose your message in “visual” mode. This gives you access to highlighting hyperlinks and enough bells-and-whistles to keep the Vatican City football referee association in ecstatic glee. And there’s a spell-check.4. Then switch to “code” mode. Copy-and-paste into Slugger’s little message slot.
    5. Do the usual check in Preview. For the first few occasions, you’ll find you may have to do a bit of editing of the redundant coding instructions. Any reference to “span” can be particularly troublesome.
    6. When all is fine-and-dandy, post to slugger as per usual.

    And Robert is assuredly your avuncular relative. In any case, once you’ve sen the coding a couple of times, it comes easy.

    Then you can (or we Apple Mac types can, at least) set up keyboard-shortcuts to automate each process.

  • Dewi

    Malcolm @ 12.46
    “Yes, I saw that Economist thing, too. Liked it.”

    My one and only New Year’s Resolution is to read something that Malcolm hasn’t.

  • Dewi @ 06:01 PM:

    Aw, Dewi, come on! It’s called “enjoying retirement” (that brief moment between kicking-against-the-pricks and Alzheimer’s setting in).

    Anyway, I have to do something while She‘s out golfing.

    My previous post was not a good advert for the technique I recommended to Harry, though. Sorry for the errors in lay-out.

  • Jo

    All of the above is a good testimony to the ruitlessness of blogging (save my own humble posting;)

  • Jo @ 06:28 PM:

    Now, let me look it up

    Bay ruit is a drinking game consisting of 2 teams of 2 people on opposite ends of a table. Each end has a triangle of 10 cups of beer. The object of the game is to throw a ping pong ball across the table and into one of the cups on the opposite end. Contrary to popular belief, this game IS NOT called beer pong.

    That joke first appeared on the wall of the male toilets, in Number 4, Trinity College, Dublin, circa 1964, in the following form:

    Stay alert!

    Your country needs lerts.

    Alternatively, as we all know to our cost, it involves preaf-rooding ptoof-reading proof-reading.

  • susan

    Malcolm “RTFM” Redfellow –Thank you for the gratuitous synopsis of Raban’s article, all of which was entirely accessible and obvious to anyone reading Raban’s piece directly. I can see why “she” spends so much time “golfing.”

    Harry — Time will tell. Even yesterday, before reading transcripts of last night’s debate, I knew some of my exuberance at Obama’s win was just sheer relief from what seemed to be nearly a preordained certainty that HRC would be the Democratic nominee. I find the prospect of just two families, the Clintons and the Bushes, occupying the White House from 1989 to 2017 (if Hills wins the nomination, the general election and goes on to secure a second term) a numbing one.

    Meanwhile, at 46, Obama is neither particularly young, nor particularly guilty of windbaggery, as pols go. As I said earlier, time — and perhaps with just a little luck, talent and tenacity as well — will tell. Onwards, New Hampshire.

  • susan @ 07:37 PM:

    Glad to be of service, ma’am. I merely thought your version mis-represented a good, well-written, even original piece of reportage — and I respect Raban (see his piece Truly, madly,deeply devout — not forgetting the second part, Rebels with a cause, — for a reason why).

    By the way, we’re singing from the same song-sheet, even if I am using the grown-ups’ version.

    I may have reached the drooling stage, but (let’s ignore the hoots off-stage from Harry and the others) I have the stripes. All the way from Holy Loch in 1961. So, where were you in ’64 (UK), ’65 (Dublin North-Central), ’74 (three-day week), and all points in between?

    Ma’am: I’ve lost more elections (and even won a few), as candidate, organiser or just as a pair-of-legs-and-of-hands, than I can count. But, then, what do I know?

    Now I’ll go back to my hippie, drop-out music: it’s more fun.

  • susan

    Just stop it, Malcolm. You’ve acquitted yourself ably in this forum on any number of topics. You are not “drooling” because you were politically active before I was born, and good on you for your coommitment, by the way. Nonetheless, it was your initial post on Raban’s piece that misrepresented “a good, well-written, even original piece of reportage”, not my decision to quote Raban’s concluding paragraphs verbatim.

    Your cheap shot references to the “fire and brimstone” brigade and “RTFM” are transparent condescension from one who can and does know better, your age and political experience have nothing to do with it.

  • Dewi

    Susan – do you think he can do it? – he needs to knock Hillary out in NH – I think he needs to win by 20% to do that. Would be glorious if it happened.

  • The Dubliner

    Malcolm, these two passages are interesting from the article you linked to in The Atlantic:

    Obama is deeply aware of how he comes across to whites. In a revealing passage in his first book, he recounts how, in adolescence, he defused his white mother’s fears that he was drifting into delinquency. She had marched into his room and demanded to know what was going on. He flashed her “a reassuring smile and patted her hand and told her not to worry.” This, he tells us, was “usually an effective tactic,” because people

    “were satisfied as long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves. They were more than satisfied; they were relieved—such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn’t seem angry all the time.”

    And so you have Obama’s campaign for white America: courteous and smiling and with no sudden moves.

    And:

    When I’m president, we will no longer accept the false choice between being tough on crime and vigilant in our pursuit of justice. Dr. King said: “It’s not either/or, it’s both/and.” We can have a crime policy that’s both tough and smart. If you’re convicted of a crime involving drugs, of course you should be punished. But let’s not make the punishment for crack cocaine that much more severe than the punishment for powder cocaine when the real difference between the two is the skin color of the people using them. Judges think that’s wrong. Republicans think that’s wrong, Democrats think that’s wrong, and yet it’s been approved by Republican and Democratic presidents because no one has been willing to brave the politics and make it right. That will end when I am president.

    That looks like a fine feast until you look more closely and see the cardboard cut-outs. If you read the above, Obama doesn’t say how he will end the racial (socio-economic) discrimination in sentencing practices for drug offences; he merely asserts that the personal “bravery” (sans plan) of a chosen individual will redress the imbalance and that he alone is the messiah who will turn all wrong to right. But where is the evidence of this exceptional bravery to rage against the system that all others allegedly lack? It isn’t in the mild-mannered professor whose ‘courage’ is manifest in manipulating his timid white mother’s emotions to ease her fear that she hasn’t spawned an uppity n*gger (if, indeed, his anecdote is credible). Is this Clark Kent really Superman? No, more likely a very shrewd manipulator who will not divert from the methodology that he prospers by, i.e. being all things to all men and not doing anything that offends anybody (which would be required as part of the “bravery” he sees as being more powerful than particular policy). The Leopold can’t be expected to change its spots just because it assures us that it will.

  • Harry Flashman

    Can Obama fans actually let me in on the secret of what this great “change” is going to consist of? You really couldn’t get a cigarette paper between his policies and Hillary’s, pretty much the usual old boilerplate that has sustained the Democrats for the best part of half a century; big government, higher taxes, kowtowing to the unions, a soft foreign policy etc.

    So what’s this bright new dawn that Obama is offering? There appears to be little new about Obama other than that he is a relatively handsome, relatively young, relatively black candidate with a relatively good oratorical style.

  • susan

    Dubliner, what makes you think you can you tell that a white woman who married a black man from Kenya in the late fifties or early sixties and later moved to Indonesia was “timid?” What makes you presume Obama was reading his own mother wrong when he wrote she feared he was “drifting into deliquency” — that in truth, to use your noxious phraseology she was fearful she had “spawned” an “uppity nigger?” Mothers fear their teenage sons are getting into trouble regardless of race, creed, or income level. Malcolm Redfellow and I may be getting on each other’s wicks tonight, but I’d bet the mortgage he can and will dissect any lack of specificity in Obama’s policies without relying upon dehumanising language as a sensationalist crutch.

    Dewi — I dunno, I dunno! I cannot wait to see the results in New Hampshire. If I had to make a prediction before hand, I would guess that Obama and Clinton will battle for the nomination all the way to the Democratic party convention in Denver Colorado in August. Obama right now seems to be gaining among both women, African Americans, and Independents. God forbid, a sudden terrorist attack on America’s shores could lurch America’s mood, he could blow it on the stump, but there’s a lot working in his favour.

    Harry F — a friend sent me this interesting blog from Washington on why many American Republicans favour Obama now, why the infatuationmay fade if he secures the nomination.

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/republicans_for_barack_obama/

  • Wilde Rover

    Harry Flashman,

    “The death toll in the current Iraq conflict is probably substantially less than one hundred thousand people (try to ignore hysterical propaganda) 99.9% of the murder victims have been murdered by fellow Muslims,”

    That’s strange, because most independent observers agree the death toll passed one million last year.

    As for nearly everyone being murdered by fellow Muslims, let us not forget the two “Laurence of Arabia” British black ops that had to be sprung from an Iraqi jail by driving a tank through the wall of their cell.

    As the Yanks say, Harry, don’t piss on our legs and tell us it’s raining.

    Bob,

    “Wilde..
    Facts in evidence being the operative phrase. “

    So you accept the fact that he is a flip flopper based on the evidence I have cited?

  • Bob from Boston

    Wilde,

    I must have missed your cites. Please present them again. Include the Iraq casualty cites as well.
    Please. I’ll respond with my resources, that I use to support my opinion.

    ‘most independent observers agree the death toll passed one million last year’
    That, and $1.37, will get you a small cup of coffee.

  • Steve

    LOL Bob
    Considering the US has done their level best to suppress any meaningfull expresion of civilian cassualties there is little doubt official records probably exist but arent for public consumption

  • Harry Flashman

    OK here goes in order to test my linkiness I am going to post an excellent article from Mark Steyn examining both parties’ first choices as candidates in Iowa, He’s not impressed by either.

  • Up to July 2006 from The Lancet

    Probably most reputable source of casualty data – 650,000 deaths up to July 2006.

  • Wilde Rover

    Bob,

    Delighted to. First, for Romney,

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/09/us/politics/09romney.html

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/20/AR2007022001266.html

    And on Iraq,

    http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=78

    “That, and $1.37, will get you a small cup of coffee.”

    What is a small cup of coffee now in the US? Twenty dollars?

  • The Dubliner

    Susan, why don’t you read what is written rather than use the text as a screen to project your own vacuous, insufferably self-righteous waffle onto? Here it is again for your edification. Pay proper attention this time, child, and notice that the characterization of Obama as an “uppity n*gger” comes from his own mother:

    Obama is deeply aware of how he comes across to whites. In a revealing passage in his first book, he recounts how, in adolescence, he defused his white mother’s fears that he was drifting into delinquency. She had marched into his room and demanded to know what was going on. He flashed her “a reassuring smile and patted her hand and told her not to worry.” This, he tells us, was “usually an effective tactic,” because people

    “were satisfied as long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves. They were more than satisfied; they were relieved—such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn’t seem angry all the time.”

    And so you have Obama’s campaign for white America: courteous and smiling and with no sudden moves.

    See how far your understanding advances when you actually read what you are replying to?

  • The Dubliner

    “That, and $1.37, will get you a small cup of coffee.” – Rob

    That’s about 93 cents in Euros – which will get you one sachet of sugar in Dublin but no coffee.

  • Jo

    Susan
    I have no doubt you and your views won’t be deflected by what, over 4 years now, has been demonstrated as an almost laughable caricature of mysognism, emanating from Dublin.

  • The Dubliner

    And Susan, in case you’re still struggling with it: Obama specifically states that the tactic he used to reassure his mother is “an effective tactic” because it is a black man reassuring a white person that he isn’t a threat. The white person is “relieved” to find a black man who is pacified, i.e. not uppity. This is why I questioned the credibility of his anecdote. I doubt his mother saw him as black, and had expectations of him based on race. Ergo, I doubt he would have had to use his “tactic” of confounding racial expectations on her in the manner he described. It makes a good anecdote for a book, however – even if it smells of BS, written for the liberal masses who will lap it up.

    Jo, have you been over to UI’s site lately? 😉

  • Bob from Boston

    Wilde..

    My Man Mitt,
    No one gives a shit about what special treatment homosexuals want.
    I’ve been listening closely to him since I helped elect him in Mass (sadly, I could only vote once), and I think he is more pro-life than the MSM spins him to be.
    After these debates, he has moved up a couple of notches. Poor old crabby McCain has been hoisted on his amnesty petard. So, I’m cautiously optimistic about the Mitster..

    Causualties or *My facts are better than your facts*

    It’s a given that the majority of the deaths, regardless of the numbers, have been caused by the Muslim Extremists. We are trying to kill as many Muslim Extremists as we can, and doing quite well. (that is the good news you won’t get in your Daily EU, Dhimmi, Indoctrination Report)
    http://tinyurl.com/wj6u9
    http://tinyurl.com/35dgvv
    http://tinyurl.com/2lto6z

    “However, the Lancet figures are much higher than statistics from other sources, which only goes to show how estimates can vary enormously according to the method of collection.

    “There is considerable debate amongst the scientific community over the accuracy of the figures.”
    http://tinyurl.com/253tm7
    blah blah blah.

    Dubliner,
    Selling sachets of ‘sugar’…..wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Say no more….

  • Bob from Boston

    Wilde,
    They do a credit check before they let you into a Stahbucks!!

    (I have my spell check adjusted to my Boston accent)

  • susan

    Dubliner, if you think an intelligent, observant rebellious black teenager with a white mother in 1970s would not have included the calculus of race and his own perceptions of society’s expectations and prejudices, you are just being silly.

    For those interested in the race, The Washington Post’s homepage features not one but three articles on Obama surging ahead in the polls, including two big polls with double digit leads. Doubt the final tally will be that large, but interesting:

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/06/obama_takes_the_lead_in_nh.html?hpid=topnews

    Harry F, your question on policy differences — I was living in New York when Bill Clinton first ran for President, and despite admiration for quite a bit of what his administration achieved in office, I never got over my aversion for his support, and even enthusiasm, for the death penalty. Barack Obama, on the other hand, as a state senator in Illinois was instrumental in getting a moratorium on that state’s notorious death penalty. Obama was also a strong critic of going to war in Iraq, although since election to the US Senate his voting record on the war I believe he has supported increased funding.

    There is more, but I must get back to work.

  • Bob from Boston

    And that would be Tancredo as Mitts VP, btw.

  • Wilde Rover

    “So, I’m cautiously optimistic about the Mitster..”

    Yeah, especially now that he might get a few good reviews on radio.

    http://wizbangblue.com/2007/12/14/romney-buys-his-own-radiotv-network.php

    He’s got the money, now it looks like he’s got the airwaves, but he doesn’t have the Internet. That belongs to the Congressman from Texas.

    “We are trying to kill as many Muslim Extremists as we can,”

    It’s “Muslim Extremists” now? Funny, “Islamofascist” was really beginning to grow on me.

    “and doing quite well.”

    Yes, because Depleted Uranium is the gift that keeps on giving. And when the wind is right it will make its way across to you Bob. But this way you are sure to get all the “Muslim Extremists,” so everything is going according to plan.

    One can only hope that the people in the Live Free or Die state make the right choice.

  • Wilde Rover

    “They do a credit check before they let you into a Stahbucks!!”

    I believe the Sub Prime Espresso and the Hedge Lattes are off the menu.

  • Bob from Boston

    Wilde,

    A sad liberal tune..depleted uranium…tsk, tsk
    You’ll be contending with the poor blokes swimming over from Scotland to escape sharia law if you don’t pull yourself up on the aims of these crazy bastards. Start hording hijabis, you’ll make a killing before the err, Islamofacists start theirs……

    No disaffected ‘youths’ rioting over here btw. I love our Second Amendment…

    I’ve been remitting like a Mexican to the BOI for many years now. UP THE EURO!!!

  • Rory

    “…an excellent article from Mark Steyn…”

    Well done, Harry, that’s as good an example of an oxymoron as I’ve read in many a fine day.

  • Bob from Boston

    Rory.

    Hmmm…
    Wondering which way Slugger tilts…

  • susan

    Dubliner, I’m very busy this week, but I want to make just one point to you. You advise me to “read what is written.” Pile on as many adjectives about me as you like, I’m not paying much attention, but these are the words YOU wrote:

    The Dubliner:

    “It isn’t in the mild-mannered professor whose ‘courage’ is manifest in manipulating his timid white mother’s emotions to ease her fear that she hasn’t spawned an uppity n*gger (if, indeed, his anecdote is credible).”

    That is entirely your projection of the unknown quantity that was or is Barack Obama’s mother. Given the incredibly high rates of incarceration and premature death among black males in America at any given decade in Obama’s lifetime, she would have to have been in a coma as a white woman raising a young black male son by herself not to have special concerns for her son’s future. How you leapt from that to a “timid” woman feaful she has “spawned” an “uppity nigger” is a question you might ask yourself in your spare time.

    Bob from Boston, this morning I was scanning the op-ed page of today’s New York Times, and was a bit startled to read a piece by William Kristol arguing that Mike Huckabee is now earning the trust of mainstream Republicans in your neck of the woods:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/opinion/07kristol.html?hp

    I see from your posts that Romney is your man, but as Boston is close to New Hampshire, I am curious what you think New Englanders’ take on Huckabee is?

  • Dewi

    “Aw, Dewi, come on! It’s called “enjoying retirement” (that brief moment between kicking-against-the-pricks and Alzheimer’s setting in).”

    No offense meant Malcom – merely admiration and envy……

  • Bob from Boston

    Susan,

    We conservative IC’s in Mass., those that favoured Romney then, and the few more who favor him now, have seen Huck for what he is. Not a Republican, by our standards. New Hampshire is de facto Mass now politically. The abysmal social and financial circumstances have driven socialists across the border to live, and commute to Bean Town (they want to spend my money, not theirs). I feel that this whole Huckabee hysteria is a MSM fabrication to smoke screen the horrendous Dem situation and divert the lib lemmings off to another shiny object for now. I do respect Mr. Kristol’s thoughts on this, but I feel Bill and I would disagree on defining mainstream Republican. He is looking at it from a higher level than I see it. That same hubris reddened a few faces when Mitt was elected gov.

  • Dewi

    Manchester Union Leader – is that an Obama recommendation ?

  • Dewi

    Obama heading for K.O. blow?
    This is now getting really interesting.

  • susan

    Bob from Boston, no doubt you and I can and will have some gorgeous knock-down, dragout rows if and when time allows, but in the meantimes I truly do appreciate your taking the time to read the Kristol piece and sharing your firsthand perspective.

    Having just had a very fast read of Dewi’s link at post # 18 indicating Huckabee at only 13 percent in New Hampshire, it does appear you and not Kristol are reading the tealeaves correctly. Interesting times!

  • Bob from Boston

    Dewi,

    Manchester Union Leader
    Somewhat left of the Boston Globe (spit)

    One grain of sand from the beach
    http://tinyurl.com/276w2z

  • Dewi

    “Manchester Union Leader
    Somewhat left of the Boston Globe (spit)”

    Yep – my kind of paper.

  • Bob from Boston

    http://tinyurl.com/yoz6zw
    The leading Republican strategist, who requested ‘ANONYMITY’ because this person advises a number of Republican presidential candidates, told CNN “I think Barack Obama is a potential Robert Kennedy or Reagan figure.”

    These MSM fools keep this kookery up and Obamalama will crash and burn big time. Unsubstantiated rumour from CNN? I’m stunned. Nothing like a MSM/Dem self inflicted wound…..Reagan indeed. These assholes think this is a freekin’ reality show. Who ever lies, cheats, and sneaks the most, wins….yeesh.

  • No, Dewi @ 5.19 pm: the Union Leader (it dropped the “Manchester” not too long after our dear, daffy Grauniad went national) is not your sort of paper.

    Describing the Union Leader as “left” of anywhere is like saying that Kublai Khan was more progressive than grand-dad Genghiz, because he didn’t insist forty virgins were incinerated to warm his funeral.

    The editor is curmudgeonly Joseph McQuaid. He, alas for my prejudices, is not known to be a relative of the late and unlamented John Charles ditto, archiepiscopal admirer of J Edgar Hoover among his many other faults. Since early December Joe has been rooting for McCain.

    The Union Leader has, over the years, called:

    Nelson Rockefeller a “wife-swapper”;
    Gerald Ford “Gerry the Jerk”;
    George Bush I “a wimp”;
    George Bush II “Junior Bush” who “lacks any passion for conservative beliefs”;
    and said Elizabeth Dole lacked any worth “except an X-chromosome”.

    That, please note, is only the Leader’s chosen team.

    The view of the State Republican Chairman in 2000 was: “Usually they pick a candidate early and either promote that candidate heavily or beat the stuffing out of the candidates they don’t like”. McQuaid’s own version of that is:

    “The Union Leader’s style is we don’t just endorse once … We endorse every damn day. We started endorsing Reagan in 1975 and never stopped.”

  • Dewi

    “the Union Leader (it dropped the “Manchester” not too long after our dear, daffy Grauniad went national) is not your sort of paper.”

    I still call it the Manchester Guardian LOL
    Salute your superior knowledge Malcolm but any paper Bob from B don’t like is fine by me….endorsement in Primary traditionally important for both parties? Or at least noteworthy.

  • Dewi

    Perhaps Obama’s Mam is the weak link. Perhaps the Clintonistas could attack through her.

    “Marrying a Muslim once could be true love? But twice ? and whose got the genes ?”

    Obviously they would be a little more subtle. but not much.

  • Bob from Boston

    Barack is painfully invoking MLK, and believe me, he is quite far from MLK…almost as far as Jesse Sharpton. Most Dems think he’s white anyway. As do most blacks/African Americans. He’s as white as Oprah. Do a bit of research on how the black money has donated to Obama. Not a nickel of gangsta cash in his till.

  • Dewi

    “Not a nickel of gangsta cash in his till”
    Bob – you really know how to offend don’t you?

  • Dewi

    pretty impressive I think he’s got the big Mo !

  • Bob From Boston

    Dewi,
    That is truth. If you are offended by it. Tough.

    Watch and listen to the video here. This takes the foolishness of Obama and the Dem/liberal and puts it in real life context.
    I’m done on this one.
    http://tinyurl.com/28ktx8

  • kensei

    “pretty impressive I think he’s got the big Mo !”

    Flashes of some decent stuff from Obama: in “remaking the world as it should be” there is a hint of Robert Kennedy. But he’d need to work on the Nomination Acceptance Speech to get anywhere near JFK:

    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy's_Presidential_Nomination_Acceptance_Speech

  • kensei

    Odd, didn’t work for some reason. This should:

    http://tiny.cc/Jtpc1

  • Harry Flashman

    Dewi, the Lancet study and figure of 650,000 deaths has been well and truly debunked as an absurdly preposterous figure. The Lancet, formerly a well respected scientific journal, shamefully allowed itself to be manipulated by far left action groups, the research was funded by George Soros for example (therefore lending as much credibility as a report sponsored by the Yale Skull and Bones society).

    For a thorough debunking of this nonsensical death tally read the following

    Debunking Lancet
    (see I CAN link!).

    But work it out for yourself; the four years of catastrophic warfare in World War 1, where in one morning alone the British Army suffered twenty thousand killed, led to only just over 750,000 British deaths. In the six years of the Second World War, when British troops fought in desperate battles in northern Europe, in North Africa and Asia, when thousands of British ships were being sunk at sea and when British cities were subject to almost nightly aerial bombardment, the final death toll was 500,000.

    Use your own brain, Dewi, can you seriously believe that in a low level insurgency in three provinces of Iraq over a two and a half year period 650,000 people were killed? It’s simply absurd.

  • jaffa

    Dubliner opened this with a crack that “Well, if he goes all the way, you can be sure he’ll be reminded by Irish-Americans that his great-great-great-grandfather hails from Moneygall in Co. Offaly. Hopefully he won’t remind them that they backed the wrong horse in Hillary.”

    Obama’s already shown he’s not above playing the Irish-American connection, telling Bill Neely that he’d be over for a pint soon but more than that, he seems to have an authentic and modern version of the romantic Scots-Irish/Irish immigrant and the enlightenment perspective in his bones.

    I just watched a piece on Obama’s granny and uncle in Kenya. There’s something familar about a legally apprenticed boy from a farming and county schoolteacher background championing liberalsim, internationalism and (from the “hope” section in the acceptance speech) hands-on traditional American religious universalism (a bit of the “inch by inch, row by row, gonna make this garden grow” stuff there), against a background of sectarian division in the “home county” and reaching for the American presidency a generation after his father’s immigration.

    Proper American – in the good way.

    Kensei mentioned Kennedy. Allowing for the usual anachronisms I’m thinking maybe more Jeffersonian Democrat after James K Polk.

  • Dewi
  • The Dubliner

    “That is entirely your projection of the unknown quantity that was or is Barack Obama’s mother. Given the incredibly high rates of incarceration and premature death among black males in America at any given decade in Obama’s lifetime, she would have to have been in a coma as a white woman raising a young black male son by herself not to have special concerns for her son’s future. How you leapt from that to a “timid” woman feaful she has “spawned” an “uppity nigger” is a question you might ask yourself in your spare time.” – Susan

    And guess how much time I will deliberate over it? Exactly as long as it takes me to type this (plus the time it took to read your post).

    Now, Susan, ponder this: if her concerns were so well grounded, why was young Obama able to ease them with (in Obama’s own words) “a reassuring smile and patted her hand and told her not to worry.”

    That sure addresssed the issues you projected onto her (“the unknown quantity that was or is Barack Obama’s mother”), didn’t it? 😉

  • The Dubliner

    And by the way: it’s “is.” She was dying while he was writing his book.

  • The Dubliner

    Err, ‘was’ rather.

    Never mind.

  • dewi

    Trailing in NH Clinton feels the heat
    This is like Christmas for geeks

  • Dewi

    You are right Harry – should have checked THought Lancet would have been reliable.

  • susan

    Never mind, indeed, Dub.

    lol, Dewi! I’m risking unleashing all sorts of anarchy following the race so closely, but it is gripping.

    Ken, timely you bring up the power of oratory. In an op-ed piece in the Washington Post today, an EJ DIonne Jr takes a sympathetic view of Hillary Clinton’s experience and familiarity with the issues, but argues that in leaving the “poetry” of campaigning to Obama she may unwittingly be writing the obituary to her own political fortunes. He goes to reference JFK:

    ” In 1960, the articulate Adlai Stevenson compared his own oratory unfavorably with John F. Kennedy’s. “Do you remember,” Stevenson said, “that in classical times when Cicero had finished speaking, the people said, ‘How well he spoke,’ but when Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said, ‘Let us march.’ ” At this hour, Obama is the Democrats’ Demosthenes.”

    Sigh. Dewi, nothing like the sound of marching feet to remind us to look past the giddier pleasures of following the horse race to try and find more specifics about the foreign politicy initiatives “Demosthenes” is proposing.

  • Dewi

    Still gripping – when will we start getting exit polls?

  • Greenflag

    ‘Use your own brain, Dewi, can you seriously believe that in a low level insurgency in three provinces of Iraq over a two and a half year period 650,000 people were killed? It’s simply absurd.’

    So absurd ? Nothing absurd then about the ethnic slaughter of some 800,000 Tutsis in Rwanda in the 1990’s which if IIRC took a couple of weeks and was mainly accomplished by machete ?

    Many deaths in Iraq have been ‘unrecorded ‘ or the figures massaged downward to facilitate the impression to foreign media that the Iraqi Government and their American allies are ‘winning’. One of the reasons why the present ‘surge’ appears to be successful is that there was so much ‘ethnic cleansing’ that the number of Sunnis in Baghdad is a fraction of it’s previous number . Despite all the talk about stability on the part of the Allies the fact is that ‘stability ‘ of a sort has been achieved by turning a blind eye to the sectarian cleansing over the past few years .

    Residents of Northern Irelands now newly more sectarian neighbourhoods should know the score by now . Ask any Protestant remaining in Derry or Catholic in Newtownards !

  • Greenflag

    It’s over 🙂

    Voters in two New Hampshire hamlets cast their ballots Tuesday just after midnight in the state’s first-in-the-nation presidential primary, hours before the rest of the state’s polling places open.

    Rick Erwin tallies the nation’s first primary votes in Dixville Notch, New Hampshire.

    1 of 3 The first ballots were cast in Dixville Notch, a hamlet of about 75 near the Canadian border.

    People there favored Sen. John McCain in the Republican primary — he got four votes — and Sen. Barack Obama in the Democratic contest, who won seven votes.

    Obama and McCain also won in midnight voting in Hart’s Location, population 42. The two senators hope to see those results duplicated statewide by the time all the votes are cast.

  • Dewi

    See post 9 Greenflag…not quite statistically significant yet !

  • Bob from Boston

    I thought I was out, but you pulled me back in.
    I am a JFK Democrat, which means, in todays world,
    I’m a conservative Catholic. To think that these Dem fools could be in any way compared to Jack and Bob Kennedy is absurd. Maybe that fat bastard, drunken murderer Ted fits. They had more balls and smarts in their toe nails than all todays wimps, combined. Obama is where he is because of a scandalized opponent in a two bit election – http://tinyurl.com/2g9ues -. He is a house of cards (a guest house), he is on the wrong side of every IMPORTANT issue, and would be a danger to the free world, if elected. Obama is a leftist graduate of Columbia University and an experienced proponent of the Alinsky model of community agitation. Jack Kennedy was a war hero, and served in congress for 14 years. Bobby was a firebrand fighter for the truly oppressed and would have to be restrained if he were in the same room with these current nitwits. And don’t even get me started on the MLK comparisons.
    Ok, now I’m done.

  • Wilde Rover

    “People there favored Sen. John McCain in the Republican primary—he got four votes—“

    John McCain did not make the following remarks:

    “War, Pestilence, Famine, Death, hey, thanks for turning out for me tonight.”

    But he did make the following remarks:

    http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/McCain_100_years_in_Iraq

    “The United States military could stay in Iraq for “maybe a hundred years” and that “would be fine with me,” John McCain told two hundred or so people at a town hall meeting in Derry, New Hampshire, on Jan 3.”

    If this keeps up we’ll be hearing from Bob from Buncrana.

  • Dewi

    B from B – you certainly have a certain style – which ain’t entirely unattractive……

  • Bob from Boston

    Dewi,

    Old school Boston Irish Catholic….
    Are you in Belfast? I’m bidding a contract over there. Just a fair warning ;-)..

  • Dewi

    You know Whitey Bulger ?

  • Bob from Boston

    All depends on who’s asking. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more.