A total disrespect for the families in that courtroom…

Victor Barker’s remarks on the behaviour of Sean Hoey’s supporters in the courtroom on Thursday.

  • ohyeah

    ask him what part of “not guilty” does he not understand.

  • jimawayday

    Just as well that his opinion dosnt count.

  • rob

    My Goodness,

    Ohyeah, are you mentally retarded? in fact only you would answer that! there is something seriously wrong with you my man…Listen to what those people have to say.

    Regards

    Rob

  • ohyeah

    but his opinion was flawed in that hes still claiming that mr hoey is guilty when there isnt a shred of evidence to suggest that he is. surely thats the fault of baxter and whoever fed him the lies rather than a family who were happy at seeing their relative freed from an almost certain miscarriage of justice
    ps. ireland unfree shall never be at peace

  • ohyeah

    sometimes the truth is hard to stomach, rob, and on this occasion i tend to believe the judgement of the court. if believing a judge makes me mentally retarded or a spacker or whatever , then so be it. Id rather be mentally retarded than have my thoughts directed by the ruc/psni.
    my conscience is clear…..i had nothing to do with the bomb, i dont support those who had anything to do with the bomb, and i dont support the framing of anyone over the bomb
    the real retards are the people who planted the bomb, and the people who lied and deceived in the attempt to frame sean hoey FOR A CRIME HE DIDNT COMMIT

  • Jo

    Regretfully, Slugger has enabled those with a corresponding disrespect for the families another means by which they can hurt those people both now and for the forseeable future.

    This may be the price of free speech to those like the above poster who freely endorse murder and murder attempts without fear of identification or indeed prosecution.

    While the events of this week may demonstrate that Justice can be elusive, there is a simpler way in which such issues will be worked out: what goes around, comes around.

  • harry

    why jo,

    do you think sean hoey did do it??
    sounds like you are bitting your lip on this.

  • cut the bull

    In years to come Seán Hoey’s name will fade into the widerness as he has been found not guilty in a case which to be honest had little or no evidence against him.

    A case in which a senior detctive and a scenes of crime officer were caught telling lies and a former Chief Constable seemed to be up to his knees in an orchestrated effort to fuck the whole case up.

    The names that will be remembered as a marker for the future conduct of Forensic officers, Scenes of Crime officers, investigating detectives and most of all the concept of justice and a fair trial, shall be those who lied to the court and others who done their level best to undermine possible witness evidence.

  • rob

    Ohyeah, cut the bull,

    Have you listened to what that man had to say? What are both your opinions on it?

    Regards

    Rob

  • TAFKABO

    It’s simply untrue to say there wasn’t a shred of evidence against Hoey.

    More honest to say that there wasn’t enough evidence to secure a fair conviction, so of course he had to walk free.

  • The Dubliner

    It’s interesting how few lessons are ever learned from similar high profile case where the police, under pressure from the community and the politicians to secure a conviction, have conspired to send an innocent man to prison, ensuring that justice was not done.

    Just like when the conviction of the Birmingham Six was finally overturned, we are seeing the same insidious backlash by the bigots to convince us that the system didn’t fail and that “They were really guilty, they just got off on a technicality.” No, they weren’t ‘really guilty’ and the system did fail. Flawed scientific evidence was used, confessions were beaten out of some of them, police officers lied to the court, and the media was used as part of a smear campaign to convince all of their guilt. The human rights of those men didn’t matter to English society because they had Northern Ireland accents (considered proof of a terrorist tendency), they weren’t middleclass, and once convicted, an “appalling vista” arose which was deemed more important than the rights of innocent men.

    The trial wasn’t about the families: it was about the guilt or innocence of one citizen, Sean Hoey. He was found not guilty because there wasn’t a shred or reliable evidence against him, police officers like to the court in an organised conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, and because ‘intelligence’ (which is not evidence) was used to finger him. That doesn’t mean he ‘got off on a technicality.’ It means there was as much evidence to prove the veracity of the intelligence as there is to prove the claim that Rudolph really is a red-nosed reindeer.

    Not that the PSNI didn’t try to hold the trial in the media from day one, with over 200 police officers and British army soldiers being sent to his home arrest him to the music of helicopters hovering overhead. Gee, who wouldn’t be convinced that a very dangerous man had been apprehended by those dramatic display, worthy of a Schwarzenegger movie? It was almost as dramatic as the display they put on when they raided PSF’s offices at Stormont, causing the collapse of the Executive when the only person involved in a ‘spy ring’ was another British agent, Dennis Donaldson.

    Victor Barker’s misdirected anger should not deprive Sean Hoey of the right to his good name and freedom. He should have the decency to withdraw his remarks. If not, then Sean Hoey is entitled to seek redress through the courts.

    It seems we are now in a situation where those who hold the political view that the British state doesn’t have any legitimacy in Ireland are the Irish accents in London – the new class of Birmingham Six candidates. They are the new underclass of society, to be used as trial fodder, thanks to the fascist hysteria that threads like this promote.

  • Twinbrook resident

    let the rewriting of history begin. Sean Hoey wasn`t found not guilty the judge through telepathy, sent his real thoughts about the case to all those few around the Cosmos who see a not guily verdict as a well he was really guilty, lets not worry about small things like facts or evidence, he`s bad you know, the Special Branch told me.
    As to Seans families reaction…they have every right to express their relief at their son release.
    Innocent.

  • ohyeah

    my opinion rob, is that mr barker was fed a load of shite by those handling the case…he was told by them that hoey was involved, without there being a shred of evidence against hoey. in fact there was similar evidence against an english child, who should have been jointly charged. such is the nature of low copy dna, there could have been evidence to connect you, daniel o donnell or anyone else to the case. sean hoey was the unlucky one and joins a long list of republicans like raymond mccartney who have been framed by the ruc/psni
    mr barker is bound to be disappointed at the result, but thats the fault of the psni for telling him they had the right man and that a conviction was imminent. ci baxter knew this, thats why he ran away from the cameras
    while the real ira may be responsible for the original pain he felt over the death of his son, theyre not responsible for the further pain which is obvious in that film…the ruc/psni are!
    thats my 2 euro anyway

  • TAFKABO

    The rewriting of history has already begun, Hoey was called a hero on this very thread.

    A hero for what exactly?

    29 dead and someone’s a hero for not being found guilty of it.

  • J Kelly

    The cheering when the verdict was announced was imo an expression of relief not victory or gloating at the families. Sean Hoey was on trial and if convicted would probably spent the vast majority of the rest of his life in jail. Emotions at times are hard to contain and I don’t believe for one moment that anyone holds any ill feelings towards the families. If Sean Hoey had been convicted, the gloating that his family would have to face would have been unbelievable and we would not be discussing on here. No matter what angle we take in all of this Sean Hoey is innocent.

  • rob

    Ohyeah,

    Can I ask a question, did the RUC/PSNI just take it into their heads one day ‘lets lift the first person we see’ and poor old Hoey was that man?

    Regards

    Rob

  • Rob

    J Kelly,

    The cheering was an effing disgrace, compare that with the dignity that the families showed.

    Regards

    Rob

  • harry

    dead on rob,

    because the RUC/Psni have an outstanding record of impartiality, esp in south armagh.

    lifting the first person they see, is a character trait of the police forces here, especially if you happen to have a politcal opinion that differs from the one that prevails in the PSNIUC.

    the british court system have found the man innocent. end of story.

  • Rob

    Harry,

    Funny that, I could have swore that there were loads of Republican supporters out that were not lifted, or are you trying to say that everyone who supported the Republican movement has been lifted and spent time in jail?

    Regards

    Rog

  • Realist

    Omagh was a stunning blow for Irish unity…and peace.

    It united the people of Ireland (and beyond) in a determination to ensure that a gang of cowardly desperados (RIRA)will have no say in our future.

    The blood of the Omagh victims ensures the desperados are isolated and rejected.

    An honourable republican objective (uniteing Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter) was acheived.

    Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter united in revulsion, and a determination to see that those who bravely fight for peace will overcome the cowards.

    Up an alley, from which there is no escape.

  • harry

    no not all have been lifted, but alot have. and the psniuc have dont really let evidence stand in the way at having a go at nationalists and republicans in general.

    but you are suggesting that because hoey came from a republican area he was lifted.

    well in that case…

    it wasnt the rira that planted the omagh bomb at all.

    imo it was british intelligence.

    after all they were the guys that did dublin monaghan.

    and nobody ever did time for that. a fact that does not seem to excercise the minds of people as much.

    but then again.. those bombs are safely in the past and safely in the republic of ireland.

  • Damien Okado-Gough

    Hoey’s solicitor has released a statement saying that the comments made by Victor Barker regarding Hoey in that very interview are ‘actionable’ and that Hoey is considering legal action ‘to clear his name’, i.e. a libel action against Victor Barker.
    An ugly business indeed.

    It’s very telling to note though that major broadcast media outlets broadcast those very comments, which are blatantly libelous, and that Hoey isn’t, at this stage anyway, going after them, seeing that they are the ones who he could hit for big money.

    If he actually does take action against Victor Barker it’s highly likely that he’d win it. If so, then Victor Barker would, in all probability, have to withdraw his comments publicly, amongst other things. Would he do that?

    This could get much, much uglier.

  • Rog

    Harry,

    Effing hell mate!!!

    Regards

    Rob

  • dodrade

    Sean Hoey is as innocent as OJ Simpson, Lizzie Borden and Robert Howard.

  • Rory

    Totally off topic -so apologies in advance but breaking news on BBC Radio has announced that Blair (that’s Tony not Sir Ian) has converted to the Roman Catholic faith.

    “It is a private matter” said a spokesman. That’s what he thinks!

  • Rory
  • Twinbrook resident

    let me again repeat for the slow learners. Sean Hoey was found not guilty, not partially guilty not maybe guilty if the psni could have stitched him up…NOT guilty, full stop, unless the wannabe T`internet cyber warriors here know more than the Gods of British intelligence who off course as everyone knows were not aware or involved in this atrocity.
    As for the psni, lets see when those cops who lied and fabricated evidence are tried! But I`m betting Lord Lucan will parade himself up and down the Falls Rd on the back of Shergar first.
    Odds of 1000/1 if anybodies intersted.

  • Ahem

    I for one would be delighted if Hoey goes after Barker in a libel action. As Hoey doesn’t have a reputation to lose, Barker will win at a canter. Won’t bring back his dead son of course, but then Hoey and his cheerleaders here hardly care about that, do they? How heartening it is though to see so many ‘Republicans’ cheering on the verdict of a British court. Best justice in the world girls.

  • harry

    and similarly loyalists unionist lambasting british justice.

    sure what have we being telling you for years

  • Ahem

    That when you murder people, cheer on others murdering people, or make excuses for others having been murdered, you’re anything other than contemptible, and seen as such by everyone else on the planet who doesn’t share your own diseased pathology? At a guess.

    Still no sympathy though for a man who had his son blown apart by Irish Republicans, eh? Sweet.

  • Jo

    It would be doubly interesting if a civil prosecution is launched and any effort at suing Mr Barker goes ahead.

    Depending on exactly how much the tainted DNA evidence swung the judge to acquit Mr Hoey, the samer judge could indeed find him – and others – guilty in a civil action.

    Therefore, if the civil action implicated Hoey, there would be little if any chance his own action against Mr Barker would succeed.

    It would depend on timing, but raises the possibility that 2 actions would separately find Hoey guilty of Omagh and Hoey not to be involved at all. The law would indeed look like the ass that it is most of the time.

    Personally, I would be disgusted if a case was taken against Mr Barker. But no doubt some south Armagh solicitor would try and make a name for themselves. After all, they’d get paid, win or lose – no Republican has ever to my knowledge refused to deal in £.

  • PaddyReilly

    On another thread, about rape, I was asked how I would feel about rape if I had been the victim. The answer which I did not then have time to give is that I do not think victims should be directing the criminal process. Indeed, victims are a very irrational bunch, who should be politely edged out of the judicial process altogether.

    One of the problems is that they need someone to hate. An accused provides a focus: when that accused is found not guilty, their hatred of the accused does not go away. There was a man in South London, called Colin Stagg, who suffered from this syndrome. Charged for a murder on entirely spurious evidence, the case against him was dismissed, but he remained an object of hatred, and not just by the victim’s relations. Recently the (presumed) real murderer has been charged, but I don’t know if that will make any real difference.

    If Sean Hoey has been found not guilty, then that is how we should view him. If any of the slugger trolls think they have supplementary evidence, then I suggest they supply it to the aggrieved relatives and get them to start a civil suit.

  • ohyeah

    if mr barker is gullible enough to listen to the ruc/psni lies about the case then thats his problem, why should anyone feel sympathetic at that
    justice weir wasnt as gullible and judged that the only people guilty of breaking the law at that trial were ruc/psni officers.
    perhaps, being a lawyer, mr barker should voice an opinion about police officers breaking the law which would be more fitting than venting about a family celebration

  • Alex S

    Regardless of the courts verdict, someone made the bomb, planted the bomb and planned the operation or was it the fairies at the bottom of the garden?

  • Alex S

    “Hoey’s solicitor has released a statement saying that the comments made by Victor Barker regarding Hoey in that very interview are ‘actionable’ and that Hoey is considering legal action ‘to clear his name’, i.e. a libel action against Victor Barker.”

    Would that be a civil action?

  • The Dubliner

    Well, at least folks have moved on from a position of considering those who hold political views they don’t agree with to be ‘guilty until proven innocent’ to ‘guilty even when proven innocent.’ That’s movement from a dismal position, even if it is to an even more lamentable one. While sympathy for the families of the Omagh dead is warranted, it is the a family of Sean Hoey who are relevant here: is it their son who was the victim of an attempted miscarriage of justice. The only family who matter in this trial are Sean Hoey’s family. The attempts by Victor Barker to usurp that priority were distasteful because they showed no regard for the injustice that was visited by the state upon an innocent man, nor for the suffering that his family had to endure. They were distasteful because they carried an implication that Sean Hoey was guilty and that his family had no right to express their emotions because of their son’s political beliefs – that neither they nor Sean Hoey mattered, that they should have bowed their heads in shame at the verdict and cowered before Victor Barker and his arrogant glare, before creeping out the backdoor of the court. If there was “total disrespect for the families in that courtroom” then Victor Barker showed “a total disrespect” for the family of Sean Hoey outside of “that courtroom.”

  • harry

    well said dubliner

  • Jo

    “The only family who matter in this trial are Sean Hoey’s family.”

    I think its worth repeating that view in order that that particular perspective can be appreciated as fully as it deserves (heavy irony)

  • Siphonophore

    Dubliner,

    your post #11 on the previous page was spot on, perhaps you are as informed, erudite and articulate as you imagine you are 😉 The patronising wisecracks just don’t work for you that well and you are far more effective and eloquent in your comment here than in your comment to me yesterday.

  • What armed conflict.

    I have noticed a news story on the BBC N.I. website where a man has been charged with Murder, the evidence is ” He called a mobile phone that the alleged murderers had with them at the scene of the crime, he also sent a text message to the phone ” this is the connection the police are using to charge him with the crime, the Omagh family’s should ask the police why man (A) who made a phone call for (59 seconds ) to a mobile phone used by the Omagh Bombers, and at the time the Bomb was being parked in the Town, WHY has MAN A NOT BEEN QUESTIONED.

    Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7155534.stm

  • ohyeah

    wheres the irony jo….are you talking about how ironic is was that barker barked about the hoey family
    not content with losing his own lad, he wanted another family to go through the same thing even when the evidence said that lad was innocent….shame on him!

  • Comrade Stalin

    it wasnt the rira that planted the omagh bomb at all.

    imo it was british intelligence.

    Given that RIRA supporters do not deny planting the bomb, but instead blame the police for not evacuating people away from it, I think we can get a pretty good picture of your credibility.

    There are so many strange aspects to the trial. Wasn’t this a Diplock court, with no jury, of the kind that republicans don’t like ? Would a jury trial have cleared Mr Hoey ?

  • Steve

    Damien Okado-Gough,

    Contrary to your comments, things said outside a courtroom are protected by privilege, and any broadcaster can replay them in full, free of the fear of legal action.

  • Rob

    Dubliner, Ohyeah and any other tit,

    Let him bring on a cival action…I bet he doesn’t!!

    Have you ever read John Rawls ‘veil of ignorance’?

    I would suggest that you did!

    Sean Hoeys family did not read it, and I suspect Sean did not either.

    Regards

    Rob

  • Aquifer

    ‘ireland unfree shall never be at peace’

    Or, ‘we will keep murdering people until we get our own way, even if our own own small coteries cannot agree what the way is, and the living people of ireland who have told us to stop the violence shall keep their heads down and their mouths shut, or else.’

  • ohyeah

    rob, did u or barker ever read hans christian andersons fairy tales…i suspect you did, cos that what the psni/ruc told yous and you believed them…rofl

  • pfhl

    The Dubliner not blaming sinn fein? im shocked and impressed

  • kidso

    Who controlled the RIRA? Who controls it now? Answer Mr and Mrs Brit Spooks. Who benefitted most from the Omagh Outrage? answer The British Government. They have ignored warnings before. They have done so many dirty deeds worldwide they are the masters of dirty dealing… thats why there will never be any conviction in the Omagh case. Who did it? Ask Ronnie Flanagan and Mr Orde.

  • Rob

    Oyeah,

    Did that story tell about the people blown to bits and not a single person brought to justice for it?

    Your a DICK Oyeah, I’ll consider myself yellow or red carded.

    Regards

    Rob

  • ohyeah
  • Aquifer

    ‘They have ignored warnings before.’ It’s true, Kidso, the Brits have a track record. If they had cut a deal with Hitler instead of opposing him Ireland could have been united long ago. Now its up to heroes like you to blackmail the brits into rolling back the Plantation.

  • Comrade Stalin

    It’s this sort of deranged bullshit that gets me :

    Who controlled the RIRA? Who controls it now? Answer Mr and Mrs Brit Spooks. Who benefitted most from the Omagh Outrage? answer The British Government. They have ignored warnings before. They have done so many dirty deeds worldwide they are the masters of dirty dealing… thats why there will never be any conviction in the Omagh case. Who did it? Ask Ronnie Flanagan and Mr Orde.

    How on earth was the Omagh bombing, or the subsequent failure to catch anyone, in the interests of the British government ?

  • kidso

    Aguifer

    Im not a hero. never was never will be. Im just telling the truth. really dont care if its the Brits the Sinners the Nazies Al quida George Bush or even YOU who is in power. Im from plantation settlers myself. Just want to live and let live. those who want to rule and maintain power will do anything legal or illegal to do so. Even butchering innocent people..
    Dont care if you insult me…if it makes you feel good. Doesnt negate my point though does it Aguifer?

  • willowfield

    Hoey’s solicitor has released a statement saying that the comments made by Victor Barker regarding Hoey in that very interview are ‘actionable’ and that Hoey is considering legal action ‘to clear his name’, i.e. a libel action against Victor Barker.

    And I think that’s the last statement we’ll hear on the matter.

    Big talk from the big solicitor defending the big man.

    Same goes for the claims about a civil action against the police. All talk.

  • Rob,
    Would you rather have a Birmingham Six/Guildford 4 conviction?
    The Crown could not priove its case against Mr.Hoey-that, as far as Mr.Hoey is concerned, should be the end of the matter.

  • kidso

    Ignorance is bliss COMRADE STALIN. Whats deranged about believing the British government did something outrageous? Its called dirty tricks. The effect of the Omagh bombing copper fastened the IRA ceasefire as public opinion necessitated it. Failure to catch the ones that done it helps the Brits cause they probably had their murky spies and spooks involved in the bombing. Its called self protection.
    And anyway what has bovine excreta got to do with it?

  • Comrade Stalin (the other Omagh conspiracy theorists)
    Could it just be that the RUC Special Branch and assorted spooks are,like most, public servants safe from scrutiny just not very good at their job?
    Could it not be that the Omagh bomb wasnt stopped because of sheer incompetence on the part of the RUC?
    The perpetrators of the Omagh bomb are the villains in this-they made the bomb they delivered it to a crowded town centre.

    cant it just be that simple?
    Never underestimate incompetence in human affairs.
    First the mistakes are made then the cover up.

    because someone makes political capital out of an atrocity like Omagh doesnt mean they planned it or allowed it to happen.

  • heck

    Can we not agree that both the Hoey and Barker families have suffered in this whole saga a cut them some slack. While Mr. Hoey’s families reaction to his acquittal may have seemed distasteful to Mr. Barker and we can all agree that Mr. Barker’s comments were way out of bounds perhaps that best thing to do would be to drop the finger pointing. Mr. Hoey’s family were deprived of their loved one for 4 years and the Braker family deprived of theirs for the rest of their lives. Perhaps sympathy for both families might be in order.

    Now I can put my tin foil hat on and make the observation to those whole believe that Sean Hoey must be guilty. It seems to me that there is more evidence to implicate the British government than Hoey. Of course the RIRA did it –no one disputes that but consider the facts

    1 Kevin Fulton—a British soldier inside the organization has said that he gave the police advanced warning of the attack
    2 The Garda had passed along intelligence that there was going to be an attack in Omagh.
    3 All agree that the RIRA were heavily infiltrated by the British.
    4 The police are claiming that they have intelligence that Hoey was guilty. What intelligence can that be other than they had an informer who witnessed what he did?
    5 The Government was the one who benefited from the Omagh attack. The revulsion to this loss of life is what prompted the RIRA to call a ceasefire. This was the moment when the Troubles came to an end.
    6 The judiciary-which had no problems in the last 40 years putting people away on the flimsiest of evidence –tortured confessions, supergrass evidence etc. are now suddenly sticklers for forensic details and perjured police testimony! (I am not accusing the judge of anything –for the paranoid among us this is just something to think about.)
    7 Omagh is a mixed town were large numbers of Catholics and Protestants would be killed and the revulsion would extend to both communities.

    Ingram’s buddies could have just as likely steered the RIRA into this and then allowed it to happen knowing that the outrage would end the RIRA campaign. It’s not like the British are morally incapable of such things!!!

    Were Ding a Ling when we need him?

    I am not saying this is what happened but the other cliché also holds. Just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean they are not out to get you.

  • Kidso,
    I did not know, until I read these posts that the Omagh bomb was assuming the role of the Irish 911.
    the RIRA made and detonated the Omagh bomb.
    Almost certainly police incompetence prevented the bombs interception and and effective investigation after the fact.

    Why the need for the grassy knoll?

  • Aquifer

    ‘those who want to rule and maintain power will do anything legal or illegal to do so. Even butchering innocent people.’ Exactly Kidso. Do you think a group has to be as big as a state to think like this?

    I don’t think that any group has the right to tell me what to do or be killed, even if ‘what to do’ is move 500 yards down the street.

    I resent being coerced and conditioned to obey people whose ideas have already failed at the ballot box.

  • joeCanuck

    My family was directly affected by the Omagh atrocity (details on another thread).
    I know absolutely nothing about Mr. Hoey.
    I would not want someone convicted on tainted evidence.
    From the reports I saw on-line during the trial, this case was fatally flawed from the very start.

    As regards the families and supporters, I hope they just got carried away by the moment. I can’t imagine any of them not feeling for the dead and injured.

  • k

    Mick, I think it’s a sad reflection on where Slugger has gone that you’re now posting threads whose sole intent seems to be to repeat a libellous statement made against an innocent man.
    Victor Barker was wrong in what he said and no-one knows what he’s been told behind the scenes but we can excuse him for being emotional considering the circumstance.
    But what is the point of this thread other than to besmirch the reputation of Sean Hoey?

  • Mark McGregor

    Mick,

    As I said on the day of the trial, the days before and the days after have been and should be about the victims and families. One day was very much about Sean Hoey and the PSNI attempting to fit him up for multiple life sentences. On that day him and his family/friends were very entitled to express delight that after sitting through 50 odd days of dodgy evidence and lies that the PSNI attempt to send him down for life had failed.

    The reaction wasn’t disrespect it was absolutely understandable.

    The PSNI and RUC created the situation where people were forced to express relief that a man who had spent over 4 years on remand wasn’t given life based on lies.

    I’ve said before, just for one day the families weren’t the focus it was the attempt to give a man life. That day is over.

  • Mark McGregor

    I’ve got to agree the link is libelous. And the repetition by the media and blogs makes it all the more likely that Mr Baker could face the courts himself.

    That would be a terribly sad outcome but if people won’t accept a court verdict what else can he do? Though I’d much prefer to see him direct his legal response where it it is truly deserved – the PSNI.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Ignorance is bliss COMRADE STALIN.

    Sorry, but I don’t believe in wild theories which have no evidence or basis to back them.

    Whats deranged about believing the British government did something outrageous?

    Just that. What if they were caught ?

    Its called dirty tricks. The effect of the Omagh bombing copper fastened the IRA ceasefire as public opinion necessitated it.

    post hoc, ergo propter hoc – I’m not going to accept it, I’m afraid. How could the government have known that the bombing would copperfasten the IRA ceasefire ?

    Failure to catch the ones that done it helps the Brits cause they probably had their murky spies and spooks involved in the bombing.

    Assuming they did of course, a claim for which you have zero evidence. Can you explain why the RIRA did not deny the bombing ?

    Phil:

    Could it not be that the Omagh bomb wasnt stopped because of sheer incompetence on the part of the RUC?

    I’m more inclined to think incompetence, given that the RUC’s own officers were in direct danger of being killed by the bomb.

    cant it just be that simple?
    Never underestimate incompetence in human affairs.
    First the mistakes are made then the cover up.

    The two sentences quoted above are self-contradictory. Are you arguing that there were genuine mistakes, or are you arguing that there is/was a coverup ?

    heck:

    6 The judiciary-which had no problems in the last 40 years putting people away on the flimsiest of evidence –tortured confessions, supergrass evidence etc. are now suddenly sticklers for forensic details and perjured police testimony! (I am not accusing the judge of anything –for the paranoid among us this is just something to think about.)

    Heck, please list the cases in Northern Ireland where people were put away by the judiciary on “flimsy evidence”. Diplock courts always had a lower conviction rate than jury courts, principally because the standard of proof was higher owing to the absence of a jury.

    It’s bizarre claiming that the government allowed the bomb to go off and force the RIRA to call a ceasefire. How could they have known that the bombing would lead to the RIRA to ceasefire ? There is no precedent for this throughout the last 30 years of republican bombing (in any case, they aren’t on ceasefire, at least not according to the IMC).

  • alan

    But then – he is a nutter!

  • Comrade Stalin
    There is nothing contradictory about the following:
    RUC SB or assorted Spooks didnt act on intelligence because of bad comms/general laziness/ they didnt believe the intell was good.
    The bomb goes off.
    Then there is a rush to cover up who knew what-arse covering basically.
    maybe also to protect an informer-I just dont know and dont claim to know.
    Then more incompetence in the forensic examination.
    Then there is more arse covering by the investigating police.
    There is nothing mutually exclusive about the cock up/cover up sequence.
    Actually they often go together when large organisations do not discharge their statutory duties.

  • joeCanuck

    But speculation is exactly that – unknowing guessing.
    A complete waste of time and there will never be a public enquiry.
    Hoey has been found not guilty and rightly so given the tainted evidence.
    The families of the dead and the injured will not get the justice they deserve.
    I don’t know what else can be said. It’s all so sad and depressing that the perpetrators will never have to face the enormity of their deed.
    Christians at least can trust that there will be a higher justice.

  • joeCanuck:

    “the tainted evidence” is part of the incompetence.

    If the security forces had prior knowledge of a bomb plot but allowed it to go ahead then that too can be explained by incompetence/bad internal communications/inter-service rivalry/protecting informers etc.
    Conspiracy theorists have to believe two things:

    1: Governments and their agencies are competent.

    2; they can keep it quiet.

  • Aquifer

    Its a win-win for RIRA. If the warning gets through they project themselves as a powerful committed yet merciful group, if the warning fails then its the fault of the colonial oppressor.

    We are being suckered here, the meat in their fascist sandwich.

    RIRA set the bomb to detonate and it killed a lot of people who were absolutely innocent.

    RIRA belong in jail for setting a bomb at all.

    It is not the police’s job to go round wiping the arse of the politically incontinent.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Problem is, the police aren’t capable of putting them in jail. There’s a handful of RIRA suspects whose cases will now be thrown out as well…

  • Rob

    Phil ‘John Le Carre’ Mac Giolla Bhain,

    You are full of shite!! Is it just me, is anyone else disgusted by these idiots?

    Comrade Stalin,

    Well said.

    Regards

    Rob

  • Jo

    You’re not alone Rob, Comrade speaks a lot of sense (usually) 🙂

    While I have seen here, variously, that HMG had Olaf Palme killed and helped stage the fake moon landing, I think that TB’s deliberately allowing the Omagh bomb to force a ceasefire is an indication that those holding the belief are likely to wear some sort of tinfoil headgear. Though, possibly, not on Sundays. 🙂

  • Rob

    Jo,

    Bloody hell, I thought it was just me!!! I really can’t believe some of the stuff that the apologists are coming out with.

    I’m not political nor am I religious but bloody hell!! I think its disgusting.

    Regards

    Rob

  • Jo

    Aquifer is right and indeed this practice was consistent throughout the *Toubles.*

    I researched local papers from 1970-1976 and saw a consistent pattern of reports, usually carried by the Irish News, that warnings had been ignored, or not acted on quickly enough and therefore, those who actually planted them were effectively shrugging their shoudlers of responsibility.

    Well, in their own eyes and the eyes of their sympathisers, maybe so.

    But not for anyone with any fragment of a moral compass, which given the religious affiliation of those planting the IRA bombs, one might reaosnably have expected them to have…

  • Twinbrook resident

    and the British government forces weren`t I`ll repeat that, weren`t involved in the Mcgurks bar murders, the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, the muders of any Catholic solicitors or any form of collusion with loyalists.
    Infact the British government are just lily white…
    So British secret sevices could never ever be involved in any wrong doings….its just those bad apples…
    Wheres my Knighthood Liz.

  • ohyeah

    rob, how many times are you going to play the man in this thread.(you only get away with it because its anti-catholic which is acceptable to fealty) are you a bully at home too when you dont get things your own way? do you abuse your wife and children when they argue with you? we know your type. ill pray that you can get some xmas cheer

  • Observer

    Mr Hoey was found not guilty by Judge Weir. Like us all Mr Hoey will have to face another judge one day who won’t be using low count DNA to make his judgement.