An Gaeilge, imigh libh!

I have to say that I have been flying in and out of Ireland, north and south, as the market dictated, for about twenty five years. On too few occasions have I been greeted in Irish. But it seems that the one carrier that could be relied upon to use the cúpla focail on landing, Aer Lingus, will no longer do sonot do so on their new Belfast service. Republican Sinn Fein are not happy, “Aer Lingus have long claimed to be the National carrier, but their actions in relation to their new Aldergrove hub shows that they have only self-interest rather than the National interest at heart.”

Go mbeannaí Dia daoibh, tá fáilte romhaibh ar bord na heitilte seo – or hello and welcome to your flight. It’s a familiar greeting you’ll hear when flying Aer Lingus to anywhere – except Belfast.

The Dublin-based airline has ditched its familiar Irish-language greeting because it might upset passengers flying to and from the northern city.

Aer Lingus launched services from Belfast earlier this week.

But The Irish News has learned that executives at the highest level took the decision not to use Irish on board flights from the city because they might be politically contentious.

Since August, when Aer Lingus announced its plans for Belfast at Stormont in the presence of First Minister Ian Paisley, senior airline officials have been embroiled in a number of battles.

, , ,

  • Kevin

    What’s in the article? It’s subs required.

  • overehere

    Sounds a bit stupid to me if I get an Air France or Iberian plane I expect to hear the French and Spanish language. As to being contentious I would think that those who would be “offended” by Irish would never dream of flying with Aer Lingus anyway

  • willowfield

    Republican Sinn Fein are not happy, “Aer Lingus have long claimed to be the National carrier, but their actions in relation to their new Aldergrove hub shows that they have only self-interest rather than the National interest at heart.”

    RSF obviously don’t understand that Aer Lingus is the “national carrier” only for the Republic, not the whole of Ireland. One would have thought that RSF, of all people, would have understood that the Republic only has jurisdiction over 26 counties!

    Overehere: when you hear French and Spanish flying with Air France or Iberia, presumably there are passengers on board for whom those languages are their main means of communication?

    Did Air Berlin staff speak in German on the flights between Belfast and London? Didn’t think so.

  • darth rumsfeld

    what a load of nonsense. If they want to use a few words of Irish who cares?

    OK , we could ask for a wee bit of Ulster-Scots (“Welcome tae Belfast. The weather theday wud founder ye”)to even things up. Or perhaps not.

    If there’s a more true blue poster than me on slugger I’ll doff my hat to him, but I’d use Aer Lingus without a second thought- having probably realised that the name of the airline (inside whose plane I am sitting and to whok my credit card is sending my money) is presumably Gaelic it would be a bit difficult to be offended by an airhostess noone listens to anyway.

  • Elvis Parker

    Willowfield – Aer Lingus was the Republic’s ‘national carrier’ when it was a state airline. It isnt any longer – just as British Airways isnt. Aer Lingus is just a ‘Irish themed’ international company – just like Ryannair. Granted the Irish Govt still have a large stake in the company but it has publicly said it is very reluctant to interfer in the operation of the company (for very of collapsing its share)
    The Irish greetings is an outdated nonsense – the announcements are for safety and information – hence on a Ryanair flight to France they are in English and French so that most people can understand! There is no need for announcements in Irish – frankly its as cringing as plastic Paddy Irish bar overseas

  • willowfield

    Elvis

    Thanks for the info. I agree with you.

    Incidentally, does anyone know what “Lingus” means?

  • Danny

    Only in Ireland would people find announcements in the *IRISH LANGUAGE* cringe worthy.

    But you have a point about the practicality of it all since nowadays every Irish speaker also has English.

  • Danny

    willowfield,

    Lingus is a corruption of the Irish word loingeas.

    aerloingeas = air fleet

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Willows,

    Ah, the old ‘national’ question again. It is true in one sense that Aer Lingus has just become the national airline having previously just been a free state one. Although Ireland is not a nation state, most people on the island would see it as a ‘Nation’. This term does not to my knowledge have any international legal definition but rather describes how people see themselves.
    And it’s not just us Padz that do it – the Welsh, (based on Radio Wales) always refers to the Nation – meaning Wales, presumably the same in Scotland.

    RTE always talks of the ‘country’ for example in it’s news reports, weather forecasts etc and when referring to Ulster it means the 9 counties rather that the six. Presumably in RTE there is a guideline on the correct ‘national’ terminology.
    To listen to it ( quite rightly in my opinion) you would never know the Englezes were in the North.

  • Dec

    Did Air Berlin staff speak in German on the flights between Belfast and London? Didn’t think so.

    I took an Air Canada flight from Belfast to Faro last year and the announcements were in English and French. Quelle surprise! Darth is correct about this. Anyone who has a problem with hearing where the emergency exits are in Irish on an Aer Lingus flight shouldn’t really be allowed to visit the shops without proper supervision, never mind board a plane with normal people. I’m all for including Ulster- Scootch [sic] as well, if only to break the tension for nervous flyers – laughter being the best medicine.

  • Former Idiot

    I believe the report was only referring to the welcome message, not the safety announcements. Anyone who would be offended by being welcomed on board in Irish needs their bumps felt.

  • Smart move from Aer Lingus. Whether folk like it or not it’s very similar to what Ikea did when they announced they would only be flying the Swedish flag from their Belfast store and not the UK one as would be custom across the rest of the country (and on a par with policy of flying the host nation’s flag alongside the Swedish one at all their stores).

  • Possibly I should expand. In business it doesn’t seem to matter how ridiculous (or not) it is that someone gets offended, it’s not good business sense to risk it.

  • I’m more concerned that the announcements on the other “low-cost” airlines frequently seem to be in the original East European (or some hybrid thereof).

    The end of the same Irish News report notes the quandary that the Orange mobile network had. This afforded me some amusement, in anticipation, at its original launch; but even more so years later when we were in Dublin, to find my wife’s mobile did not work (despite all the assurances by Carphone Warehouse that it was truly international). We enquired at the Powerscourt Centre in Dublin, to be told, perfectly innocent and straightfaced, that “we don’t do Orange in Ireland.”

  • My own experience is that there’s only a ‘Dia Dhaoibh’ in Irish but that’s all. It’s nice and welcoming to hear the cúpla focal even if you don’t speak Irish – it means you’re travelling on an airline which is more than a glorified bus.

    It’s a mystery how Aer Lingus feel this might be a problem as Aer Arann, which has been flying in and out of Belfast City Airport, in the heart of loyalist east Belfast mind you, has no problem with Irish language greetings.

    But then again we don’t know the full terms of the deal which led Aer Lingus to abandon Shannon to Aer CIA and Rendition ExtraordinAIR for Belfast. Was this part of the package?

  • interested

    I suppose its all part and parcel of Belfast being the UK hub. Would anyone have been surprised at no Irish announcements going to and from, say, Birmingham?

    Oilibhear – I flew Aer Arann to Cork a year or two ago and I have to say I don’t recall a word of Irish in any announcement.

  • gaelgannaire

    Wankers.

  • “Wankers”

    Means good decision in Irish?

  • willowfield

    Danny

    Lingus is a corruption of the Irish word loingeas. aerloingeas = air fleet

    Thanks. Why did they corrupt it? Why have one word in Gaelic and the other in English? Surely it should either be “aerloingeas” or “Air Lingus” (or “Air Fleet”, for that matter)?

    Sammy McNally

    Ah, the old ‘national’ question again. It is true in one sense that Aer Lingus has just become the national airline having previously just been a free state one. Although Ireland is not a nation state, most people on the island would see it as a ‘Nation’. This term does not to my knowledge have any international legal definition but rather describes how people see themselves.

    Zzzzzz

    Stop pretending that you don’t know that, in the context of an airline that was established by and (until fairly recently) wholly-owned by the state, “national airline” means “state airline”.

    Dec

    I took an Air Canada flight from Belfast to Faro last year and the announcements were in English and French.

    Absurd. They should surely have been in English and Portuguese.

  • nuttal

    I thought the air canada flights stopped over in belfast, allowing them to service Belfast and Faro on the same flight, along with picking up passengers wishing to fly from belfast to faro.

    I could be wrong here.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Willows,

    If you had read my email correctly you would have noted that I said “in one sense” that Aer Lingus has just become the national airline having previously just been a free state one.

    In the “sense” of Ireland as a Nation Aer Lingus could make this claim – but for fear of frightening off touchy Unioinsts (like yourself? ) will probably think the better of it.

  • Dec

    Absurd. They should surely have been in English and Portuguese.

    Well, it was a Charter flight but since it was Air Canada – we got the languages of that country. It’s not a big deal either way, but people who take offence at this sort of thing really need to take a hard look at themselves.

  • willowfield

    Sammy McNally

    The term “national airline” means “state airline”. “Nations” don’t have airlines: states do. Aer Lingus was the state airline of the ROI in the same was as BA was the state airline of the UK. The ROI state still has a substantial interest in Aer Lingus, although it is now majority privately-owned. One could argue that it still therefore enjoys the status of “national airline” due to the financial stake held by the state, and also due to its history as a 100% state-owned airline. In any case, it remains very much an ROI business.

  • PeaceandJustice

    Mick Fealty – “On too few occasions have I been greeted in Irish. But it seems that the one carrier that could be relied upon to use the cúpla focail on landing, Aer Lingus, will not do so on their new Belfast service.”

    The point is that they now have a base in Belfast, UK. Their statement seems reasonable:

    “We looked closely and sensitively at the issue of language in order to address the needs of all communities in Northern Ireland and concluded that it would be operationally impractical to deliver announcements in English, Irish and Ulster Scots and so the decision has been taken to make announcements in English”.

    The job of Aer Lingus is to survive in an area where there is tough competition. Even if that means Nationalists like Mick Fealty don’t get greeted in Irish! Next minute Mick you’ll be promoting the sectarian and political GAA … oh, you already have!

  • Elvis

    A few words in Irish ‘means you’re travelling on an airline which is more than a glorified bus.’?
    Eh no it doesnt, it will still be a glorified bus!
    Given Michael O’Leary’s reputation for cost cutting if he eventually succeeds in his takeover the policy will be ditched in its entirety not just in the North!

  • darth rumsfeld

    look folks, we may well be amused at the ways in which different nations try to resist the advance of English as the ..er.. lingua franca.. of the world ( look at the French attempts to ban certain words), and I’m afraid this small effort won’t tuen the tide.

    But just as it’s wrong to sneer at Ulster Scots ( though Dec of course couldn’t resist a jibe), so it’s wrong to concede that the Irish language belongs to one political tradition ( again in spite of the best efforts of certain Shinners down the years). It’s not my language, but then neither is Welsh, and I respect the right of Welsh speakers to communicate in the language, in spite of the ludicrous extremes some Welsh nationalists may go to in pretending they aren’t British

    Anyone who says they won’t use Aer Lingus because it uses Irish is a dork. He might as well object to a tailfin that’s green with a shamrock on it ( which would be even more stupid since he would presumably support a football team with green shirts adorned with four shamrocks on a Celtic cross).

    Celebrate the differences. Don’t hide behind corporate hypocrisy like “operational impracticality”- I don’t have to have everything in Ulster Scots to balance Irish, because it’s artificial and does nothing to promote genuine use of the tongue. Sometimes Ulster Scots activists go overboard, like the nonsense of styling the midden on the Lagan as “Bilfawst”.That’s as stupid as calling it Beal Fairste ( sorry can’t do the accents)

    This is as cowardly a decision as the continuing failure to stock IFA merchandise at our local airports ( which must be unique in the western world) in case someone might just possibly pretend to take offence

  • Ulster’s my homeland

    darth rumsfeld [i]”If they want to use a few words of Irish who cares?”[/i]

    I couldn’t care less about a few words in Irish myself, however I don’t think that’s the issue here, the issue is about those who get upset when it’s not used.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Willows,

    I dont disagree with any of the above. What is interesting is how the ‘National’ terminology is used for ideological purposes. For example Radio Wales tag line is “broadcasting to the Nation”.

    I suspect this issue wil crop up again and again post GFA/STA for example with FF and SF jockeying for postion as to who is the truly ‘national’ party of Ireland.

    I dont think I have ever hear the words United Kingdom uttered by RTE – they always refer to Great Britain and then seperately to Northern Ireland – but mostly Ulster is used to cover the northern part of the island.

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘RSF obviously don’t understand that Aer Lingus is the “national carrier” only for the Republic, not the whole of Ireland.’ – willowfield

    true willow, but gaeilge is the native language of the whole of ireland both north and south, so anyone who would be offended at hearing it, has serious issues of their own to deal with. as for Ooolster-scots, it isn’t a language, it is a crudely spoken dialect.

  • RG Cuan

    There is no need for announcements in Irish – frankly its as cringing as plastic Paddy Irish bar overseas.

    And i suppose you asked Irish speakers for their opinion on the matter? Didn’t think so.

    The decision by Aer Lingus (sic) is certainly OTT – if they continued with their Irish announcements nobody would have cared and the Gaelic-speaking community would be happy with the equality.

    That’s as stupid as calling it Beal Fairste

    I agree Darth about celebrating difference but the above statement is ridiculous.

    Belfast derives from Béal Feirste and thousands of people use it to refer to the city. The name Béal Feirste is used everyday in newspapers, on the internet and on the radio.

  • overehere

    Willowfield

    Don’t know Air Berlin so couldn’t tell you.But you highlight my scond point very well

  • Dec

    Sometimes Ulster Scots activists go overboard, like the nonsense of styling the midden on the Lagan as “Bilfawst”.That’s as stupid as calling it Beal Fairste ( sorry can’t do the accents)

    Calling Belfast ‘Beal Fairste’ would be pretty stupid, considering it’s Béal Feirste. I use the term Belfast myself, but fail to see anything wrong or stupid with people referring to it’s original name. Of course, one of the reasons I can’t resist jibes at Ballymena vernacular Ulster-Scots is little things like coming up with names like ‘Bilfawst’ (which is obviously derived from Belfast which is, in turn, derived from the Irish Béal Feirste) without any apparent irony or shame.

  • Dec

    sorry can’t do the accents

    The correct name is fada, and CTRL-ALT and vowel will solve this.

  • Interested

    The fact that you don’t hear it must either mean a) That they only do it when they know there’s an Irish speaker on board or b) that you weren’t listening!

    I was on Aer Arann in and out of Belfast at the end of November and I definitely heard a ‘Dia Dhaoibh”.

    As far as Elvis is concerned, I was speaking from my personal perspective.

  • It’s fairly clear to me that Aer Lingus is dancing to a DUP agenda. Whether or not this was sought by the DUP is beside the point because there’s no one more craven than a corporate lackey looking for a grant or some sweetheart deal and they will do anything to get this. The DUP’s agenda appears to me as this: hijack the Ulster Scots language and use it as a smokescreen to get funding for the Orange Order – their recent Songs My Father Sung CD – and other loyalist organisations (bands and the like) and, in time, the language will cease to be prominent at all – have you ever noticed that the greatest DUP proponents of Ulster Scots, Nelson McCausland, can’t speak the hamely tongue at all?. The second barrel of this agenda is to starve the Irish language of resources as much as possible, an aim which is being achieved through the axing of the Irish Language Broadcast Fund (No provision in the Budget after March 2009) and the paltry allocation for Foras na Gaeilge despite DCAL’s £10m underspend. This is aided by Sinn Féin’s less than vehement or effective opposition to the filleting of the progress achieved on the Irish language issue over the past number of years by community workers, the likes of the Cultúrlann etc.

  • Jamie Gargoyle

    Willowfield – yes, the Air Berlin service from Stansted to Belfast City did the welcome, safety, and in-flight announcements in both German and English on the return trip I took with them in November 2006. No offence was caused, even when we flew over Coventry…

  • Look, sorry to ignore what you lot think is a vital issue, but I’m not greatly bothered about the odd word of cod-Oirish.

    Far more intriguing is whether the Aer Lingus move to BFS is succeeding: there is the odd bit of gossip on the pprune.org site which implies it might not be.

    In particular, the Schipol flights seem to be working well below expected load levels. A lot seems to depend on the EI flights becoming code-shared with KLM. Then there is the curious scheduling: as far as I can see, the EZY and EI flights to Geneva are within an hour of each other, while there are three lines running two daily flights to Barcelona, also closely spaced. Is the EI strategy to erode the EZY base?

    Meanwhile the traffic at BHD, according to their website, is 30% up on last year. That, of course, is on the back of Ryanair’s big promotional push.

    The Belfast Telegraph seem to have picked up the chat, and had an item on 10th December, which prodded Dermot Mannion into a stone-walling statement that Aer Lingus still expected 500,000 passengers through Aldergrove in the first year.

    I trust others also noticed the non-denial that EI were interested in going transatlantic out of BFS. Now that Continental is flying (almost) daily to Newark (though at a substantial premium — last time I looked — over London departures) that cannot be bad news. All of this may explain the extension to the apron and the promised additional pier and bays.

  • Hamely mo pholl

    Och whets wit dis dooning o’ de hamely tongue. Shur I em fraam Kerry an’ I do be fluuuint in it. Mo náire oraibh a phaca sasanigh. Bain do srón as pluic tóin an ghallda in ainm Dé na glóire.

  • Harry Flashman

    *If there’s a more true blue poster than me on slugger I’ll doff my hat to him,*

    [cough] Harry Flashman [cough]

  • “Of course, one of the reasons I can’t resist jibes at Ballymena vernacular Ulster-Scots is little things like coming up with names like ‘Bilfawst’ (which is obviously derived from Belfast which is, in turn, derived from the Irish Béal Feirste) without any apparent irony or shame.”

    What’s the difference between this and the Gaelic name for the Andersonstown Road (which escapes me at the moment)?

    Rua Baile Andersaun or something equally cringe-worthy? Are we going to see you taking digs at the mucksavage tongue sometime soon as well then?

  • willowfield

    It’s fairly clear to me that Aer Lingus is dancing to a DUP agenda.

    I don’t think such is clear at all.

    It’s more likely they’re acting in the same way – as Beano has said – as Ikea did, or Heinz did when they didn’t air their “Beanz Buildz Britz” ads on UTV, i.e. they’ve calculated that it’s commercially better not to risk “offending” anyone.

    Would anyone have been sufficiently offended not to book an Aer Lingus flight? Unlikely.

    Would anyone have been sufficiently offended not to go to Ikea? Similarly unlikely.

  • Air Canada have no choice in offering *at least* English and French regardless of origin/destination. Their language policies are dictated by Canadian federal legislation (the Air Canada Public Participation Act, 1988).

    That was the legislation which permitted the privatisation of AC and which stipulated that the Official Languages Act would continue to apply to AC as a private concern – and something the Irish government could have carboncopied for Aer Lingus’ privatisation. No doubt the investment bankers advised against putting any pesky shackles on the possible return to the Dept of Finance from the privatisation.

  • Shore Road Resident

    Wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, but I wonder if this is really about fair employment legislation. If Aer Lingus wants to recruit people up here then it would be on shaky ground telling staff to use Irish. It would only take one person to complain and there’d be a massive stink, which no company wants.

  • “I don’t think such is clear at all.”

    No. [Play the ball! – edited moderator]

  • RG Cuan

    Rua Baile Andersaun or something equally cringe-worthy?

    It would be Bóthar Bhaile Andarsain. Rua means red hair.

    And how and why is it ‘cringe-worthy’ to provide bilingual signage for places that are refered to by both Irish and English speakers?

  • It’s not bilingual signage itself in this instance, there’s the fact that, despite whinging about “bastardisation” of Irish names, they’ve gone right ahead and “bastardise” Anderson.

    I’m only asking to satisfy my curiosity as to whether the things Dec professes to dislike about the “Ballymena dialect”that is Ulster-Scots, like his issue with Bilfawst (which I am not in a position to defend), extends also to those same things when they occur in Gaelic, or if it’s really the whole idea of a “non-native” culture like Ulster-Scots itself that pisses him off.

    And Aer Lingus “dancing to a DUP agenda”??

    *blink*

    Paranoid much?

  • RG Cuan

    Languages adapt words from other tongues all the time, this is a natural phenomenon. However, Andersonstown is probably the only example i can think of where an English surname has been transcribed in this way. I have also seen Baile Anderson, which is the preferred option as it retains the meaning.

    The issue with ‘Bilfawst’ is that Ulster Scots isn’t a language.

  • Alan Law

    Dec

    Cheers for thr ctrl+alt + vowel tip.

    Everyday’s a school day.

    Plus this debate is absurd. It is no different to BA dropping the Union Flag from their planes tails are few years back in an attempt to be inclusive, only to bring them back because passengers liked what it meant.

    Aer Lingus has scored an own goal. Greet people in Irish, just keep the prices low.

  • Deco

    or if it’s really the whole idea of a “non-native” culture like Ulster-Scots itself that pisses him off.

    Beano

    Nice try but no cigar. I love the English language and have lots of respect for those people who keep the Welsh and scots-gaelic language alive. Ulster-scots on the other hand…

    But refreshing to note that you respond to digs about it with bog-standard whataboutery (with a little xenophobia thrown in) instead of refuting said digs.

    Personally, if I were a unionist I’d be particularly affronted that some jokers were trying to foist an obscure dialect upon me as my unique cultural identity.

    ‘Bilfawst’ ffs…

  • RG Cuan @ 05:20 PM

    Andersonstown is probably the only example i can think of where an English surname has been transcribed in this way.

    English surname?

    Are ye shure?

    Last time I looked the Clan Anderson, a sept of the Clan Ross, were bragging that their tartan was unique in having seven colours of thread, and to have given the pattern to the RCAF, which is recognised as a variant of the clan pattern.

    The form “Anderson” suggests to me the Lowlands form. The Highlander is more likely to be Mac Ghille Aindrais.

    So: “Stand sure”.

  • RG Cuan

    MALCOLM

    By English surname i meant English/Germanic language, not place of origin.

    However, as you point out, Anderson itself seems to only be a Scots version of a Gaelic surname, Mac Giolla Aindreais/Mac Gille Aindreis.

  • Alan Law might be on to something.

    When the vomit inducing “World Tails” were introduced on the BA fleet, it was deemed to be more inclusive, representative of world cultures blah blah blah.

    Three things happened:

    1. Branson plastered the Union Flag on his aircraft and grabbed lots of free press.
    2. When they bothered doing some feedback research, passengers, especially the non-British ones, told BA that its Britishness was not only just fine with them, but one of the reasons they chose BA for their flight.
    3. Maggie, brandishing a hankie, came out with the priceless “We fly the British flag, not these awful things”.

    I thought Aer Lingus had learned from the messing around with the company image in the last days of Willie Walsh. It seems they might be wrong.

  • Oiliféar

    This was something that crossed my mind so I’m not at all that surprised. Mind you, I would have thought that a big, green, Irish government-owned tube, with a shamrock on it tail and the name of a Gaelic Catholic saint on it’s nose would have been insensitive enough! I suppose the market researchers figured that after all that a quick hello in Irish would have pushed a certain section of customers over the edge altogether!

    I’m not worried about it, though. It says more about the tattered state of Northern unionism that I can jet around the rest of the UK without fear of offending anyone with a cúpla focail but can’t do so in northern Ireland. It’s sorry when anybody fears their own lack a distinctiveness so much that they cannot tolerate something distinctive about another.

    Beano, “Bóthar Bhaile Andarsain” sounds awful – more cringe worthy than Belfawst even!

  • BonarLaw

    Since someone has mentioned Foras and another the DUP agenda does any one else rejoice in the delicious irony that as it is a cross border implimemntation body Minister Poots can effectively starve Irish of funding on an island wide basis by restricting the NI contribution to the budget? The funding is via a strict formula which means that the Irish state cannot properly fund its own official langusge if a DUP minister in a devolved region of the UK claims poverty.

    Loving it.

  • RG Cuan @ 06:40 PM:

    Err … no.

    Anderson is not an “English/Germanic” name: that’s too vague a term to be significant. And I’m not going, without severe provocation, to discuss northern Anglic as a particular dialect. It is, in this particular context, likely to be a specifically Lallans surname. (And, yes, I know all about the rude remarks from Crísdean Mac a’ Ghreidhir’s detractors about the term.)

    It means, in my terminology (and — OK, — on second thoughts, I’ll take the vitriol from the hard-liners), the name probably came across very early in the 17th-century, in the Scottish settlement of north-eastern Ulster. Call it a “Plantation” if you must, but any competent GCSE/Intermediate geography student could discuss push/pull factors. My guess is that “a” Mister/Master Anderson established a small farming settlement/”toun” here early in the 1600s. Doubtless, someone was dispossessed or reduced to being a tenant rather than an “owner”.

    After four centuries, who can deny that this obscure Peebles (or somewhere nearby) bod deserves to be recognised? Perhaps a local historian can help. Whoever he was, he deserves as much recognition as any other entity in the curious ebb-and-flow that is what made the Ballinfeigh townland.

  • RG Cuan

    MALCOLM

    Again I’m refering to the form of the name, not the origin.

    You say Anderson is a Lallans version of a Gaelic Clan surname. Therefore it is a Germanicised word. The suffix -son (common in all forms of English, including Scots) is there for all to see.

    It seems likely that Mr Anderson came over from Scotland during the Plantation. I’m sure the Placename Project in QUB will have the answers.

  • Forecast

    Of course, I was hoping AL would merge with Continental, thus perhaps giving us the fantastic new carrier name of…………….
    ConAirLingus

    Boom boom………

  • pfhl

    Ulster scots is not a language, who speaks it? I know us ballymena people do not have the most attractive accents but it is not a different language. Something ive been told through my five years living between dublin and belfast. Stop wasting money trying to promote it. Maybe encouraging grammar lessons in North Antrim would be a good idea. It would put the ridiculous notion of a separate language to rest.

  • Bonar Law,

    How can a DUP minister CREDibly claim poverty if he hands back £10m?

  • Dewi

    “Since someone has mentioned Foras and another the DUP agenda does any one else rejoice in the delicious irony that as it is a cross border implimemntation body Minister Poots can effectively starve Irish of funding on an island wide basis by restricting the NI contribution to the budget? The funding is via a strict formula which means that the Irish state cannot properly fund its own official langusge if a DUP minister in a devolved region of the UK claims poverty.

    Loving it. ”

    Delighted to interfere in the affairs of a foreign state eh Bonar Law!

    On the topic anything that stops the language being heard is a backward step – especially since Al don’t appear to have reacted to any specific requests.
    Shame.

  • Aer Lingus is what softcore porn lesbians do

  • al

    but fail to see anything wrong or stupid with people referring to it’s original name.
    Posted by Dec on Dec 14, 2007 @ 02:05 PM

    Ever been to Eboracum or perhaps Jorvik?

    You might know it as York instead…

  • al @ 09:20 AM:

    One fine day I’ll educate sluggerdom not to use analogies: they rarely work, and frequently provoke pointless diversions (like this one).

    Your point is valid, only up to a point. That point, in the case of “York”, fails on the assumption that the place’s “original” name was “Eboracum”. That is based on a misunderstanding on wikipedia. There was pre-Roman settlement there, and the Latin (“Estate of Eboros”) reflects that. If we could trust Geoffrey of Monmouth (Brother Dewi, where are thou?), then Ebracus was the local chief about the time King David was bashing out his top-ten psalm hits. So there is a Celtic root behind the Latin. Now, if you had referred to the Anglic name, Eofervic, I’d have been with you, if only to irritate further RG Cuan on Dec 14, 2007 @ 06:40 PM.

  • gaelganniare

    RG,

    I would agree with you that Anderson in this case is highly unlikely to be from Mac Giolla Aindréis or associated form. Its in Ballydownfine / Baile Dhún Fionn btw.

    It is strange, even if natural enough that the form Baile Andarsan has arisen, why not Bóthar Bhaile Dhún Fionn? why Bóthar na bhFál and not Tuath na bhFál?

  • Serious apologies for the formatting of the previous post: I’d like to blame it in large part on the distraction of an imminent departure to the dentist.

    Nice to see from the Sunday Life (http://www.sundaylife.co.uk/news/article3255863.ece or via Newshound) what a caring, sharing, friendly. law-abiding place Andersonstown still is.

  • Dewi

    Currently Welsh name for York is Caer Efrog (Efrog’s Fort.) Can’t remember exactly but this might have been capital of Elfed ?

  • Dewi

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebrauc

    Or a kingdon on its own called Efrog.

  • páid

    Mick,

    it’s an Ghaeilge, Irish being feminine.

    Malc,
    Andersonstown was originally Whitesidestown if memory serves me correctly. And doubtless something(s) else before that.

    pfhl,
    Ulser Scots IS a language according to professional linguists; we’re all richer for it.

    Unusual for me to outflank Darth on the Orangey side, but this gaeilgeoir thinks Aer Lingus management got it right.

    Dewi,
    York was known to the Romans as Eborum and in Irish it’s Eabhrac. We were trading with it long before those hairyarsed Vikings came along!

  • Dewi

    “York was known to the Romans as Eborum and in Irish it’s Eabhrac. We were trading with it long before those hairyarsed Vikings came along!”

    Both based on “original” Brythonic……

    Have the Irish names for many places in Ynus Prydain ?

  • RG Cuan

    MALCOLM

    Your judge is way out, that wouldn’t irritate me in the slightest. I thought a fellow Trinity News columnist would have known that 😉

    DEWI

    Have the Irish names for many places in Ynus Prydain?

    We have a few. Londain/Lundain, Manchain, Eabhrach, Léarpholl, Corn na Breataine (Cornwall).

    We often now use the Cymraeg versions for cities in Wales, Caerdydd etc.

    And of course we use the usual Gaelic versions of placenames in Alba.

  • Dewi

    RG Cuan Рthank you Рwe only really have Dulyn for Dublin Рuse Belffast Р(should really use Irish) Рwhich is a lttle strange given ancient trading routes Рhave you something for Ynys M̫n for instance ?

  • RG Cuan

    Inis Món!

    There’s is an Anglesey Road in Dublin and the Irish on it is Bóthar Inis Món.

    Where did they get ‘Anglesey’ from anyway? The Vikings?

  • páid

    RGC,

    ach céard sa bhfoc é Món?!

    Ye cannae go aroond makin up words!

    There must have been an Irish word for it seeing as the Laighin (Leinstermen) ran and named nearby Llyn.

    Before Dewi and his butty boys sent them packing!

    Meanwhile I’ll continue with my lonely campaign to get RnaG and TG4 to call Holyhead – that humdrum town with such a large negative image in the west of Ireland folk-psyche – Caergybi.

  • dewi

    Anglesey Viking – I was always told that Portinllaen was of Irish origin (in Llyn). Would the Llaen bit refer to leinester in some fashion?

  • RG Cuan

    I’ve read that as well Dewi, can’t remember where.

    PÁID

    Shíl mé i gcónaí gur bhain sé le ‘móin’ agus Inis (na) Móna a bhí ann.

    Dewi, are there any turf/peat bogs on Ynys Môn?

  • Dewi
  • Dewi
  • gaelgannaire

    Páid

    “Ulser Scots IS a language according to professional linguists”

    I would love a reference here. I was at a conference recently and some of the top men in the field dismissed Ulster-Scots as a language. Leaving only only non specialists defending Ulster-Scots.

    I can’t think of a single academic linguistic on the planet that thinks Ulster-Scots is a language but I await your correction.

    Don’t get me wrong I am ‘pro’ but I find the arguements about whether it is a language irrelevant.

    RG,

    Môn is a proper name nothing to do with turf! It may however be related to ‘Mann’.

  • páid

    gaelganaire,

    I withdraw that statement.

    le meas