Young SDLP reaffirms its socialist roots?

Here’s the new SDLP Youth logo, just in time for Freshers at Queens tomorrow. It seems they are not part of Northern Fianna Fail. SDLP Youth Chairman Gary McKeown:

“Since 1970, the SDLP has been at the forefront of promoting equality, democracy and social justice. SDLP Youth is determined to continue this fight. We also want to celebrate our global links with Socialist International and the Party of European Socialists. Our new logo reflects SDLP Youth’s strong social democratic outlook as we move forward.”

It certainly does that alright…

  • Garibaldy

    Holy shit. SDLP Youth as designed by Soviet propaganda. How representative is this of those who’ll sign up tomorrow I have my doubts.

    I wonder too when this redesign was begun. Presumably well before the FF announcement. So while it looks like it might be trouble for future cooperation/merger, I doubt it too.

  • slug

    I like the logo – clearly left wing. None of this wishy washy “I haven’t a clue what they stand for” FF stuff.

    Is FF to the left, or to the right, of FG in economic policy? There’s something wrong when I still can’t work that one out.

  • kidso

    The white lines in the fist bears a striking resemblance to the chinese symbol for the Triads… look closely.

  • Fitzy

    seems like an attempt to steal some marginal shinners to me. it’s like posturing a political militancy that doesn’t really exist within the ‘adult wing’ of the sdlp.
    i admire the courage if the symbolism is more than exagerrated advertising.

  • SDLP Nationalist

    The logo looks ridiculous, we are going to lose members to FF tomorrow in Queens coz of this. We are a Nationalist party and the vast majority of SDLPers are not socialists, this logo is reminiscent of Communist Russia!

  • Dawkins

    “…as we move forward.”

    Into 1923?

  • SDLP and Socialism = GUBU

    Grotesque, Unbelievable, Bizarre, and Unprecedented. (GUBU)

  • roger

    Hardly think that Alastair McDonald or McGrady would be associated with such an emblem!

  • SDLP Nationalist

    Seriously, someones head has got to roll over this logo; it does not represent me or the vast majority of the SDLP membership. Things like this are gonna push the likes of myself away from the party. The hard left in SDLP Youth do not have a veto over our image!

  • sammaguire

    “Is FF to the left, or to the right, of FG in economic policy?

    Posted by slug on Sep 26, 2007 @ 12:33 AM

    FG are known as the Blueshirts and 90% of it’s support are big farmers and middle class urban voters. Work it out yourself.

    FF are traditionally left of centre but have no time for so called symbols of the left; roses and clenched fists and all that, probably as they are perceived to be of foreign origin and centuries of foreign occupation made us (rightly or wrongly) suspicious of foreign influences. You can see this until recently in the GAA. As an FFer I would have regarded the bulk of the SDLP voters as being to the right of FF funnily enough. Hume and Mallon (especially) would have fitted into FF no problem.

  • Its about time the SDLP had an ex-prisoners’ wing.

    Fianna Fail offers all that…what more could you want up there……?

    You’d think by the way some people in the SDLP talk about the Fianna Fail merger that they were goin’ to catch something.

    signed

    “Ray B’s Party”

  • A great start to Queen’s Alliance’s Freshers Fair activities!

    Would an organisation with Councillor
    ‘the Hunger Strikers died for Ireland’ McDermott in its ruling cabal ever ‘stoop’ to making eejits of themselves in a doomed attempt to steal some marginal Shinners? Would they ever pass up the opportunity to?

    Right on kids!

  • sammaguire

    Ray, I see you’re hanging out with the tree huggers now. In North Dublin no doubt. Bertie knows where you are!

  • Actually, the Continuity Young Unionists are even more wacky than SDLP Youth. After the wonderful “Why the B Specials were great and fenians are evil for hating them” thread on their blog, we now have “if only our election literature had pictures of our MLAs posing with catamites and a Vanguard flag, we wouldn’t have got our worst election result ever”.

    Another forward looking post from the Continuity Young Unionists – “our party is screwed, so let’s build for the future by flying the flag of a weird, pseudo-fascist, party that hasn’t even existed since before we were all born, and obsessing about a bunch of violent Loyalist thugs with a taste for random Saturday night violence and batoning John Hume and haven’t existed since our parents were in primary school”.

    This is a message to Chris Donnelly, Fair Deal, Ginfizz, Chris Gaskin and, hell, even Pat McLarnon. I take back everything rude I have ever said about your respective parties. Ian and Martin in charge is great. The Northern Ireland Executive is an entirely sensible, reasonable, natural way to run this place and has no internal contradictions. I’ll ask David Ford to make sure his next Assembly question is to ask Martin about the cricket, and Naomi could inquire politely into Dr. Paisley’s health. I’ll even use the Doctor title without sneering. Anything is better than the thought that either of these showers of eejits represent the future political leadership of Northern Ireland.

    And despite ‘Broken Social Science’ complaining about censorship, they’ve now turned off comments for non Google IDed persons, so I can’t even say any of this on their blog. Still, I ought to be proud of making them turn off their anonymous comments facility after three comments using my normal net nickname none of which were even a deliberate attempt at trolling. In fact, I really ought to put that on my CV!

  • Sammy

    lol, I reckon they must be drinking the water from Galway.

    I’m just waiting for the new and improved “I can’t believe they’re not the YU’s”

  • Comrade Stalin

    I heartily congratulate SDLP Youth on their return to the fold. Death to the capitalists and the kulaks! Only the Party of Lenin can lead us to the victory of Socialism!

  • abucs

    I guess the SDLP youth are based in Derry (and possibly Tyrone).

    Would work well at GAA matches. :o)

  • Comrade Stalin

    SDLP Nationalist:

    We are a Nationalist party and the vast majority of SDLPers are not socialists, this logo is reminiscent of Communist Russia!

    I remember back when Saint John was in charge, the SDLP’s election literature expounded on his “socialist principles”.

    I used to think that was funny, because that made the SDLP Nationalist Socialists.

  • The Dubliner

    Looks like they’ve got the “post-nationalism” part down pat, anyway.

  • The Dubliner

    “None of this wishy washy “I haven’t a clue what they stand for” FF stuff.” – slug

    If it helps, think of FF as New Labour long before you ever heard of a party that wasn’t either on the left or on the right. That is, after all, where Tony Blair took his ideas from re a party being both left and right, i.e. doing its best for the rich and the poor.

  • Solidarity with the Burma Socialist Programme Party no doubt!

  • Wohw, if this symbol is representative of the future leaders of the SDLP, it’s suddenly looking a lot more interesting. A genuinely revolutionary socialist party in NI? I think not, but still, it would be interesting (this is assuming FF doesn’t smallow up the SDLP in the next 5 years).

  • Damien Okado-Gough

    I often thought in the past that the SDLP Youth would have been best to emphasise the party’s nonviolence credentials in their ethos and imagery, in an attempt to appeal to the radicalism of youth.

    I thought that a logo employing images of people such as Martin Luther King or Gandhi would have been more appropriate than the hard socialist line. They’d be no less socialist for it.

  • francesco

    the logo looks great to me, socialisti di tutto il mondo unitevi!

  • deadmanonleave

    I remember an old comrade in around 1990 referring to the RCP in Britain being so far left that they were right wing, how right he turned out to be as they metamorphosised into the Institute of Ideas (not that they were missed for one second by the left, mind).

    I wonder if in the same way taht the RCP went so far left, have the stoopies stooped down so low that they ended up Socialist?

    Hilarious!

  • Nestor Makhno

    Not sure what people are getting worked up about.

    The logo looks more like someone offering a nice big ice cream poke. Very friendly. All that’s missing is the flake.

  • scapaticciontour

    What do they want ni to practise old tyle european socialism so when they leave college they wont have a job .logo is outdated and silly

  • Nevin

    “Nearly four decades ago a generation of young people like you took a stand for a better Ireland through the Civil Rights Movement.” .. Durkan

    Can I presume that ‘better Ireland’ is code for a United Ireland? And the ‘British Rights for British Citizens’ slogan may have fooled some naive idiots abroad.

    The CRM was a motley crew of mostly anti-Unionists that cynically used rights issues to advance the nationalist cause.

    A better Ireland would have required the exposure of injustice, North and South, an agenda being promoted by the ‘commies’ of the era.

    The ‘commies’ seemed to have the fanciful notion that they could unite the Unionist and Nationalist working classes and use them to smash the State (and Church) administrations, North and South.

    Hume, allegedly, wouldn’t touch NICRA, the best known element of the CRM, with a barge pole as he perceived it to be controlled by ‘commies’ and hard line republicans.

    The Irish government wasn’t going to stand idly by and watch its cherished institutions engulfed in the flames of revolution. The ‘commie’ leadership of hard line republicanism had to be decapitated, even if the resulting leadership turned out to be a lot more lethal. The British government hadn’t a baldy.

    A T Q Stewart in his “Narrow Ground” demonstrates that at times of constitutional instability we get sermons in stones – and worse.

    The lead-up to the 1916 commemorations and the liberalising agenda of Vatican II brought the Paisleyites to the fore. The ill-prepared O’Neill-Lemass encounter and the street politics of the CRM was going to be countered by the Paisleyites.

    Protestors could be batoned off the streets in Dublin in 1966 with little reaction but it was a very different affair two years later in Derry.

    “And changed the face of our society for the better and for ever. That’s what that generation of young people achieved.” .. Durkan

    The Chuckle Brothers in charge of the government and the paramilitary godfathers in charge of local communities is better? ‘For ever’ has to surmount the challenge of 2016, just a few years down the road.

  • francesco

    caro scappaticci yer missing out big time, keep on touring!

  • ben

    As an old Communist myself I find the survival of the concept of the Socialist International interesting. I believe that the one in question is the Labour and Socialist International a.k.a. the “Two-and-a-Halfth International” but these matters can be fraught. I don’t think they’ve had a quorate meeting in a while and most Labour Party staffers would be surprised to find they belonged to it, but there it is: Marx 1, Lenin 2, Every Social Democratic Party and Affiliated Trade Union in the World 2.5, Comintern 3, Ragtag of modern Trotskykites 4. It’s like some sort of Hegelian synthesis in action. Grasp the rose, comrades.

  • Briso

    I think it’s excellent that the SDLP is ‘pre-alienating’ its support in advance of FF coming north. Bravo!

  • David

    Wow……
    Good for them. The SDLP MLA’s? What do they think of the party returning to its roots.
    I may be a unionist but more of this and respect would grow. This really does represent a move away from tired sectarian politics.

  • Stoop

    SDLP Nationalist, you said, ‘We are a Nationalist party and the vast majority of SDLPers are not socialists, this logo is reminiscent of Communist Russia!’

    I suggest you take a look at the 2nd line of your party’s constitution. If you do not like people being socialist in a socialist party, then tough luck, because that is what it is. If you don’t like it, lump it.

  • miss fitz

    I am just surprised to see a clenched fist on a red background in any Northern Ireland party’s emblems.

    I did a little googling, as I associate the clenched fist with Loyalist paramilitarism here, but was interested to see it cited as an IRA symbol also.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist

    Oh what a can of worms…..

  • Tkmaxx

    What a ridiculous logo and an even more ridiculous pitch. Is it an ice cream poke or super duper lolly pop and does it even matter. For in numbers terms, SDLP Youth are as scarce as hens teeth!

  • Ger

    Sin Fein youth have all manner of terrorists and people such as Che Guevara on their literature and their parent party isn’t doing too badly. SDLP youth come up with something a bit different from the norm and geriatic stoops get all worked up because it looks a ‘wee bit commie’. Bloody hell- no wonder young people are abandoning you in their droves. The SDLP is so boring- at least this logo has got people talking.

    If SDLP youth are as scarce as hen’s teeth, it’s probably because they have to listen to this crap.

  • Nevin

    Miss Fitz, they sound more like a green lounge lizard party than a black panther one.

  • SDLP member now veering towards FF

    I’m with TK on this one. If you want this shit go join the Socialist Workers Party.

  • Ger

    ‘Sir’ Tom, do you actually think young nationalists would prefer to go down on bended knee before the British Queen rather than be seen as socialists?

    Can we assume, ‘Sir’ Tom, that you will be at freshers next year handing out brown envelopes to encourage people to join Fianna Fail?

    And to SDLP member… if your so embarrassed about being a member of a socialist party, then why did you join?

  • jaffa

    There’s an invitation to improve the logo of the socialist international here if you’re interested.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Red_Rose_(Socialism).svg

    I think I prefer the SDLP youth version meself. The socialist international’s seems very web-friendly (maybe the intention; http://www.socialistinternational.org/)but it doesn’t have much of a call to action.

    I’m not sure why the SDLP designer included the star though. Seems a bit soviet.

    Looks to me like the SDLP’s ripe for a split into Labour NI and Northern Fianna Fail factions. Best to just get on with it.

  • Tkmaxx

    Ger
    They are as scarce as hens teeth because this type of nonsense posturing turns off most young people. This is akin to keeping Che posters on your wall after you leave college – it looks – feels and is out of place. But its a nice middle class indulgence played out by nice middle class university type kids. Yes -they are being talked about but only because of the wider context of the FF announcement re: the North.If SDLP Youth had 2000 members not 20 they would be relevant. I could have counted their entire group on two hands in the last election. But hey – its a free world and they are as entitled as anyone to present their views. Unlike their mentors I would never discourage debate.

  • Dawkins

    Nestor Makhno,

    “The logo looks more like someone offering a nice big ice cream poke.”

    Ah! Is that what it is? Problem solved. Thought it was a red cabbage.

    jaffa,

    “I’m not sure why the SDLP designer included the star though.”

    Prolly to get the Muslim vote.

  • Tkmaxx

    Ger
    Thanks for the elevation. You should join the SDLP Youth – they need more people like you.

  • DK

    What the hell do you do if you are a non left-wing nationalist?

  • Mick Hall

    Well, it seems the young comrades have put the shit up a few sluggerites, what are you really worrying about, the thought that these youngsters might just attract some young people to socialism. If youngsters cannot sing the red flag who can, you all sound like miserable old git’s;)

    As to those who reject the logo but support a merger with FF, do you really believe that will attract new members to the SDLP/FF. Come on look at the FF party leadership with your eyes open, or is the thought of getting your snouts in the trough over riding your common sense. This logo is no more ridiculous that a party which came into being to build a better life for ‘all’ Irish people merging with a shower like FF.

  • james orr

    The idea’s not bad (Nice to see them reclaiming the Red Hand), but the execution and styling is really bad.

    A softer, or at least more modern, style would be a lot more effective.

    Cue the Durkan-as-Che-Guevara tshirts?

  • jaffa

    Lots of logos and various stylings of roses in the list of socialist international members here.

    http://www.socialistinternational.org/maps/english/europe.htm

    This armenian standard bearer must have sore arms.

    http://www.arfd.am/

  • jaffa

    Here the Danes show how to make progress and solidarity yummy.

    http://socialdemokratiet.dk/Default.aspx

  • Stewie

    Good God. Who let the kids out?

    This is typical of the self-regarding pseudo radicalism that is ruining the once great SDLP.

    At a time when the leadership is trying to keep people together and encourage a rational debate about what direction the party should go, the kids are allowed to go public with this Citizen Smith shite?

  • URQUHART

    This is a very poor logo. It wouldn’t be a problem if it was confined to the handful of SDLP members’ corduroy lapels, but when it is given any publicity, appearing for example in full colour in The Irish News, it does damage to the whole party.

    Those who argue here that the SDLP member or support base is socialist, grow up. Or canvass a bit more.

    I hope this goes the way of the Ogra Sinn Fein petrol bomb logo – the same kind of genius creative was obviously behind it.

  • mmmmmmm

    I like the logo, but it is completely unsuitable for purpose and not representatives of those it is supposed to illustrate…the SDLP is about as far from as socialism as I can imagine (except the DUP – and the new PPP driven shinners)

    The only party left with any socialst credentials outside of the unelected minority parties is the PUP which is a shame…although I believe they still have clause 4 no matter how aspirational it now is 🙂

  • Unimpartial Observer

    I like the logo!

    I think its refreshing to see people in the SDLP more focussed on how to build an equal society, rather than on how to suck up to Bertie’s Big Green Machine.

    Its been very disappointing how so many SDLP people seem willing to acquiesce in a FF takeover, and its heartening to see this kind of reaffirmation of socialist or social democratic principles.

  • bo shank

    just back from queens freshers…sdlp youth in full effect complete with new logo, when asked if they were joining with Fianna Fail (whose stand was more or less directly opposite) the answer was a forceful no way…viva la revolucion, fianna fail puta de madres etc…

  • Long John Silver

    Im in the SDLP and would like to see the party a bit more active and strong on social issues, howewver, the poster is like something you would see in an East Berlin section of a German museum. whoever spoke about the poor execution earlier in the thread was dead on the money methinks.

  • Popsicle

    I like it. Most of criticism seems to centre around it looking a bit soviet. Don’t forget that most people born after 1980 don’t care about the soviet union, red scares or anything else from the cold war era ergo such thoughts won’t enter the minds of the people they are trying to target i.e. university students. The kind of people I would have thought the SDLP would be targeting from this demographic will be looking for something a bit radical and controversial- the SDLP as a whole is a million miles from that right now, so they need to do something, and I think this graphic fits the bill. And as for older voters, they’re hardly likely to abandon the SDLP over a youth logo that MAY look a bit communist, and go to vote for the alternative i.e. Sinn Fein, which actually IS marxist and a cheerleader for the likes of Che Guevara!

  • More Green than Red

    I see that at least one ‘younger’ SDLP member still believes in a United Ireland.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/a-united-ireland-is-still-possible-1088932.html

  • nineteensixtyseven

    All this talk of Soviet symbols and communism is ridiculous. SDLP are a social democratic party and the rose is the symbol of social democracy. There is nothing far left about it, it is just an affirmation of the SDLP Youth’s social democratic principles. I for one think it is very good and I am glad they are making a point.

  • or is it just me

    Can anyone else see a fat, cloaked, turbanned man leaning into the wind, dragging his briefcase and being pursued by Spongebob’s mate Patrick Star?

  • More Green than Red

    The rose is certainly a symbol of social democracy, but a red star?? Should right of centre parties adopt the swastika?

    I’m in my mid 30s and I can most definelty remember the soviet union – millions of people dying under Stalin is no joke. ( I know I wasn’t there but I wasn’t in Hitler’s Germany either).

    Tell me Popsicle what a Polish Immigrant looking at that logo would think about the SDLP? My next door neighbours are good hard working Polish catholics, would they be convinced by a party which has adopted the symbolism of their oppressors for 50 years?

  • More Red than Green

    It’s only a little star, all you armchair pundits should get out a bit more.

  • “I admire any man who truly gives his life for his country … I do believe that when the hunger strikers died, that they died for their country.” Cllr Matthew McDermott, SDLP Youth, 7 October 2006.

    There was an internal putsch in SDLP Youth about a year ago, and basically all the sane people were kicked out in favour of a bunch of posturing pseudo-radicals. No skin off my nose, but just might give a bit of context.

  • nineteensixtyseven

    “There was an internal putsch in SDLP Youth about a year ago, and basically all the sane people were kicked out in favour of a bunch of posturing pseudo-radicals. No skin off my nose, but just might give a bit of context.”

    Nonsense.

  • ****

    Sammy:

    I think the matters you mention regarding the shift in stoop yoof were addressed in strong terms by YU blogger Richard James at
    http://www.youngunionists.org.uk/2007/09/sdlp-youth-acceptable-face-of-bigotry.php

  • JD

    ” like it. Most of criticism seems to centre around it looking a bit soviet. Don’t forget that most people born after 1980 don’t care about the soviet union, red scares or anything else from the cold war era ergo such thoughts won’t enter the minds of the people they are trying to target i.e. university students”

    Did anyone ever hear of retro chic?

    It’s red – so what? Its the symbol of the PES the clenched fist and rose. Understandibly they cannot use the Starry Plough unlike Labour Youth as the Starry Plough has been so misused in the six counties it would be misunderstood.

    Fair play though – one part of the SDLP that won’t roll over for FF

  • Popsicle

    JD pretty much sums it up.

    More green than red, are you being serious or are you taking the mickey? I think the SDLP is being very clear where its inspiration has come from for this graphic- the PES and SI- both of which it is a member. How did you end up talking about Stalin and swastikas? Why are you so ashamed of the SDLP being a democratic party?

    Talking about your Polish neighbours, why are you making assumptions about their political affiliations? They could be communists, they could be conservatives, they could be monster raving loonies. You do realise Solidarity was a trade union, don’t you? I would have thought the SDLP’s centre-left social democratic ideology and focus on equality and human rights, as they mention in the press release with this new image, would chime well with anyone who opposed the excesses of communism.

    Do you think Sinn Fein would worry so much about a tiny red star? No wonder their trouncing the SDLP if it has to deal with navel gazers like you. Catch yourself on.

  • Bretagne

    “Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of
    want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head.”

    Georges Clemenceau

  • nineteensixtyseven

    Since we are quoting Frenchmen:

    “A witty saying proves nothing.”

    Voltaire

  • Bretagne

    “A witty saying proves nothing.”

    As the quote predates socialism, it proves its not a truism…

  • An Lochlannach

    The red rose of the new logo reminds me of the touching poetry of the theme song to Prisoner Cell Block H (the Australian soap, not the Hunger Strike history):

    “He used to bring me roses
    I wish he could again,
    but that was on the outside
    and things were different then.”

    Ah yes, the glory days before Mark had to face up to the implications of the third verse:

    Last night I dreamed we were together
    sharing all the love we’ve known,
    ’til I had to face the nightmare
    of waking up alone.

    There’s always Fianna Fáil

  • IJP

    I have to say I think the new logo is terrific.

    From an Alliance Youth point of view.

  • Dawkins

    LOL @ IJP

    I must confess it’s not the design but the dreadfully amateurish execution that gets my back up. It looks as though someone’s little sister drew it with her marker set and someone else scanned it as artwork.

    Come on, people, it’s 2007. Nobody ever hear of Adobe Illustrator?

    (Dawkins covers his ass: If Illustrator was in fact used, I can only say it was a waste of an expensive proggie.)

  • Nonsense.

    Damn you, 1967, with your cutting logic and penetrating powers of analysis. You’ve destroyed my point with a one word reply. Obviously, I now accept that there was no palace coup within SDLP Youth and the new (well, now new-ish) management aren’t a bunch of posturing pseudo-radicals who think they’ll get more support from Republicans if they pretend to be Shinners.

    Curses, foiled again!

  • nineteensixtyseven

    Oh, Sammy. Such a verbose riposte laced with biting sarcasm. If you look at any of the SDLP Youth press releases from the last few months none of them could be described as resembling the Shinners or even as overtly ‘radical’. The majority deal with social issues of concern to young people today such as the minimum wage and exam results. Sure, you can bring up the odd quote or press release but I assure you it will be the exception to the rule and you will find no damning evidence to support your hypothesis.

  • Pounder

    To my eyes the logo looks more like the fist is choaking out the rose Is that a pre-emptive attack on Labour? I was at the Fayre myself and to be honest Ogra Sinn Fein where getting more people stopping at their stall than the SDLP, but then again I could be mistaken as we at the Queen’s Alliance stand where kept very busy with interested students start to finish, despite the usual dirty tricks and attempted bullying by the DUP.

  • Pounder

    [i]Oh, Sammy. Such a verbose riposte laced with biting sarcasm. If you look at any of the SDLP Youth press releases from the last few months none of them could be described as resembling the Shinners or even as overtly ‘radical’. The majority deal with social issues of concern to young people today such as the minimum wage and exam results. Sure, you can bring up the odd quote or press release but I assure you it will be the exception to the rule and you will find no damning evidence to support your hypothesis.

    Posted by nineteensixtyseven on Sep 27, 2007 @ 09:14 AM[/i]

    Does that include the press release dismissing IKEA as an “Upmarket Orangehall” over one artists impression of the finished store or the howls of protest over a union flag being flown for 30 minutes at a memorial service in Limavady (I think it was Limavady).

  • Does that include the press release dismissing IKEA as an “Upmarket Orangehall” over one artists impression of the finished store or the howls of protest over a union flag being flown for 30 minutes at a memorial service in Limavady (I think it was Limavady).

    Or the speech saying the Hunger Strikers died for Ireland.

  • nineteensixtyseven

    “Does that include the press release dismissing IKEA as an “Upmarket Orangehall” over one artists impression of the finished store or the howls of protest over a union flag being flown for 30 minutes at a memorial service in Limavady (I think it was Limavady).”

    Yes, that was one press release of many and, just like I said, that was an exception. The Limavady flag issues was NOT raised by SDLP Youth and they had nothing to do with it, it was raised by Cllr. Gerry Mullan.

    “”Or the speech saying the Hunger Strikers died for Ireland.””

    The views of Cllr. McDermott are his own and are not the views of the Youth group as a whole I am sure.

  • The views of Cllr. McDermott are his own and are not the views of the Youth group as a whole I am sure.

    You are sure? That usually means you don’t know. I’ve not seen any evidence of a split within the SDLP Youth’s executive committee, or any sign that Cllr McDermott is anything other than a respected member of it. Perhaps you’d like to tell us about the splits, then?

  • Dublin Socialist

    If people are really interested in a 32 county socialist party they should join the Socialist Party.

    http://www.socialistparty.net

  • Dawkins

    Does Slugger allow spamming now?

  • nineteensixtyseven

    That’s because there is no split. You can have varying views on certain issues in a democratic party, it’s not the politburo. Anyway, we are going way off the topic of the logo here.

  • Unimpartial Observer

    “I kept the faith and I kept voting
    Not for the iron fist but for the helping hand
    For theirs is a land with a wall around it
    And mine is a faith in my fellow man…”

    Seriously, this is a hell of a lot more creative an approach than the futile attempts of sdlp and uup to try to out-orange/out-green their opponents.

    It also tells the greedy fianna failers down south some stark home truths that not everybody here wants to import their brown envelope, hyper-capitalistic model up here!

    Even now that the republic is among the richest countries in the world, Fianna Fail’s policy is still two-tier expensive American-style private health system – first world healthcare for those who can afford it, and fuck-all for those who cant.

    With all the wealth and progress and economic resources in the South these days, they could easily afford to create a proper Irish National Health Service of their own – but instead Fianna Fail prioritise private healthcare on public lands.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I arrived at my desk at Sovnarkom this morning to find the SDLP Youth’s radical Five-Year Plan on my desk. Expecting a vigorous agenda including the confiscation of grain, the annexation of Letterkenny and a relentless drive against the kulaks, I was disappointed to see that their proposals for building a new Socialist state for workers and peasants consisted of “pretend to ignore the Shinners and hope that they go away”.

    I think they need to go for coffee with Beria.

  • [i]That’s because there is no split. You can have varying views on certain issues in a democratic party, it’s not the politburo. Anyway, we are going way off the topic of the logo here.
    Posted by nineteensixtyseven on Sep 27, 2007 @ 06:23 PM[/i]

    Since when has going a wee bit OT been a crime here on Slugger and when exactly did you become a moderator.

    You made a stupid comment about the youth wing not being reactionary republicans, Others and myself posted replies highlighting very reactionary republican statements made by members of the SDLP youth. How is that off topic?

    As for Fianna Fail, if they can do anything to help the economy the way they helped down south I for one welcome them. Socialism is all fine and dandy when your a rich kid in Queen’s with mommy and daddy paying the bills and the most difficult situation facing you is wheather to go to The Limelight or Auntie Annies.

  • Dawkins

    Comrade Stalin,

    “I think they need to go for coffee with Beria.”

    LOL!

  • URQUHART

    “Socialism is all fine and dandy when your a rich kid in Queen’s with mommy and daddy paying the bills and the most difficult situation facing you is wheather to go to The Limelight or Auntie Annies.”

    Give that man a clap on the back.

  • Red

    I’m assuming from your previous comments on this sight that your linked with the Sdlp. Do you think that smug attitude is going to win over people in the Sdlp who are skeptical about Fianna Fail? Your attitude is very insulting to people in the Sdlp who have socialist beleifs- wealth and level of education doesn’t come in to it- people are entitled to thier beleifs no matter what. If you genuinely do want a sucessfull merge with Fianna Fail then you need to stop being such a smartarse and be a bit more understanding of other peoples opinions.

    Sniggering behind your hand with Alliance is doing no favors to your party. You’ll not win people over by insulting them- that’s not how politics work.

  • URQUHART

    Red, is that comment directed at me or someone else?

  • lib2016

    The first indications that we can look forward to Spring 2009?

    It’s been a long time since 69 and there were times I doubted when the next heave would come. Looks like it may be earlier than expected but it will be led as before by the politicals.

    I think the Brits know what to expect if they deny us democracy this time. The world has got a great deal smaller in the last thirty years and shooting down unarmed protesters really won’t do, not when you’re a minor part of the Merikan Empire mainly useful for it’s semidetached role in Europe.

    A Europe which may be divided between Catholic fundamentalists and secularists of every hue but which has no place for far-out Christian evangelists who can only spread division.

    Even the Unionist community have accepted that there is no British Empire to bomb their way back into – just a choice between sticking with a declining gang of politico/religious nuts or choosing to assimilate into a New Ireland. Wonder which side they’ll pick?

  • Comrade Stalin

    Very surreal contribution by lib2016 there.

  • matt

    If I could take this opportunity to address a few misconceptions posted on this threat about the SDLP Youth logo, SDLP youth and myself, Cllr Matthew McDermott……

    One: The logo has nothing to do with soviet russia, the soviet union or any other communist state/organisation. It is a symbol of a rose. When did any soviet organisation or communist organ every display a rose – they didn’t.
    The logo is actually not that radical either – it is on the bottom of all sdlp headed paper and is the symbol of socialist internationale, an organisation we are party to. We are young members, we decided on the youthful, more dynamic logo to represent young people and the issues we are concerned with, namely social democratic issues and social justice. It is very attractive and nothing but postive feedback has been recieved from young people.

    Two. SDLP Youth is made up of young members, mainly working class like myself. I grew up in poleglass, (in the top 10 most deprived wards in the north) and my parents struggled to give my family a decent live. There are thousands of people who are in the same situation and it is a massive social injustice that that divide exists between rich and poor. I can assure you that struggling to go to the lime light or auntie annies is not the hardest issues our members have to deal with (as I dont particularly like either anyway) and the ignorance and snobbery that is displayed here is laughable.

    Three: ‘The hunger strikers died for ireland’ could not be taken out of context any more if you tried. It was part of a speech delivered to Ogra SF – in which I stated that the ideals of the hunger strikers, ie lifting people out of poverty, ending social injustice, uniting Ireland where ideals that I can associate with. I also said (and this is important) that the methods used by the hunger strikers where murderous, preverse, immoral, degrading etc etc and that they where unnecessary and many many people and families suffered that could and should have been avoided. I also said that the sdlp did more than any body to stop the violence. The hunger strickers died for their ideals and for what they wanted to see ireland become (although they used the wrong methods) and SF today have robbed them of any respect or idealism they had.

    Very simple.

    Ivan Cooper told me today, that he wants people to live for ireland not die for ireland and I do to.

    As I said in the speech – its a sad state of affairs that someone celebrates death that was ultimitly unnecessary.

  • Garibaldy

    Matt,

    Fair play to you for coming on. Although I think if you believed the hunger strikers were about fighting social injustice or lifting people out of poverty then you might need to rethink things a bit. After all, they didn’t even care about other types of prisoners, who they were happy to let rot in bad conditions, as long as they were ok.
    You also seemed to have missed the whole sectarian thing in your lists of their faults.

    As for the rose, I have a t-shirt with a hammer and sickle and a rose on it. Communist organisations do and did make use of the rose. Besides, I think it is the style of the poster – the way the things are drawn and the colours used – that are reminiscent of Soviet posters rather than the rose itself. No-one could say the British Labour Party’s rose looks like Soviet propaganda.

  • lib2016 put down the crack pipe and log of your computer, don’t you know good socialists share their drugs?

  • Mark McG

    I’ll never forget meeting a young co-opted SDLP Cllr canvassing outside Glenavy church hall. I’ll never forget asking him how he found LCC. I’ll never forget him saying “A bit boring”. Kids.. *shrugs*.

    Seems they’re all radicals now.

  • Mick Hall

    Matt

    I have no problems with you condemning the means used by PIRA volunteers before they went into the UK prison system, however to condemn them in a speech or as you have above without pointing out the methods used by the British state to hold onto the north of Ireland is a pretty poor show. As what you are doing, unintentional I am sure, is to play a part in the re-writing of recent Irish history.

    One does not have to be to bright to understand that one of the main aims of the GFA is to rewrite history in favor of the occupiers, the Oslo accords had the same methodology. The hunger strikers came to public prominence due to their hunger strike, you would be acting in a far more fair way if you stick to that instead of linking them in the manner you did.

    Whilst you may not like it, but these men in their own minds died for Ireland and their comrades in the jails, whether a hunger strike was a practical or humane proposition was not for them but others within the PRM.

    I am certain that most people, whether in Ireland or abroad believe that the ten men died for the highest of motives, myself included.

    Comradely regards

    PS By the way members of the SDLP can come on slugger and defend their logo, fine. I would however prefer a leading member to defend the merger ‘talks’, For the life of me I cannot see how amalgamation with the crooks at the top of FF will benefit a single working class family in the north.

  • IJP

    Mick

    Your final paragraph is extremely relevant.

    This is the point. Socialist on one hand, Fianna Fáil on the other. This is a pretty fundamental difference – which is it?

    Hint: if I were a Republican Socialist in the North I know who I’d vote for.

  • Turgon

    Mick Hall,
    In general I avoid threads which relate to internal nationalist/republican issues as indeed nationalists/republicans seem to do with unionist threads. An unofficial, unwritten but honourable position in my opinion.

    I do feel, however, that you are yourself indulging in major airbrushing if not rewriting of history.

    In any discussion of the hunger strikers it is necessary to point out that there are people who are dead because of their actions. “Condemning the means used by PIRA volunteers” is pretty inadequate in relation to what happened to Yvonne Dunlop.

    I would not celebrate anyone’s death and am genuinely saddened that the hunger strikers died, but I am more saddened by the deaths of those whom they killed and (unlike the hunger strikers) had no choice whatsoever in the matter.

  • The Dubliner

    The Hunger Strikers were at least consistent in placing as much value on their own lives as they placed on the lives of others, i.e. zero. That’s the Shinner cult of death.