Culture and Politics at the Feile this year…

The West Belfast Feile has finalised some the big literary and political events starting on Sunday week (ie 5th August). You can download the whole programme from here. For more details, you can contact the Feile office directly.

Ireland and Slavery – Victims, Heroes or Perpetrators?

St Mary’s University College

Monday 6th August, 1pm

In 1631 hundreds of inhabitants of Baltimore, Co. Cork were captured and brought as slaves to North Africa by Arab pirates.

In 1786 radicals in Belfast prevented the formation of a slave trading company in the town. Throughout the 18th century Belfast merchants benefited immensely from supply provisions for the Caribbean slave plantations. And today, Irish consumers benefit from the provision of goods produced by slave, bonded and child labour in Africa and Asia. So, how should we judge our relationship to slavery past and present – victims, heroes or perpetrators?

Speakers: Nini Rodgers, author of Ireland, Slavery and Anti-Slavery 1612-1865

Professor Bill Rolston, author of Encounters: How Racism Came to Ireland

Daniela Reale representing Save the Children Fund.

Recollection and Acknowledgement

St Mary’s University College

Tuesday 7th August, 3pm

Over a four-day period, following the introduction of internment-without-trial on 9th August 1971, the British army killed eleven people in the Ballymurphy area of West Belfast. The relatives of the dead have struggled for decades to establish the truth about the killings of their loved ones. Relatives for Justice will be supporting the families to hold an exhibition and discussion, which will hear from those families and eyewitnesses to the shootings. Their testimony will be given before an independent panel and audience and represents the families’ public process of seeking truth and acknowledgement.

The PJ McGrory Human Rights Lecture

St Mary’s University College

Tuesday 7th August, 7.30pm

‘My Life on Death Row’

Guest Speaker, Sunny Jacobs

Sunny Jacobs spent seventeen years in prison in Florida, including five in solitary confinement on Death Row, for murders she did not commit. When she was exonerated and released, it was too late for her husband who was executed for the same crimes before his innocence could be proven. Sunny’s extraordinary experiences and survival are the subject of the highly-acclaimed play Exhonerated, and she is the author of the best-selling book, Stolen Time, published last May. Sunny’s story is a powerful indictment of capital punishment. As well as regularly speaking out against the death penalty she works with young people to promote non-violent conflict resolution. Chair: Raymond McCartney MLA, former H-Block blanket man, former hunger striker, served seventeen years of a life sentence before his conviction was quashed in 2007 after a lengthy appeal.

My Own Country

The life of Robert Lynd by Sean McMahon

School Library, Christ Church Building,

Royal Belfast Academical Institution,

Wednesday 8th August, 1-2pm

Robert Lynd was born in North Belfast in 1879. His father, a Presbyterian minister was anti-Home Rule yet Robert, who was a pupil of Inst in Belfast, went on to become a fluent Irish speaker [he taught Roger Casement] and a member of Sinn Fein in London where he met Michael Collins. He wrote the introduction to Connolly’s Labour In Irish History and became a brilliant essayist and journalist. James Joyce and Norah Barnacle’s wedding lunch was held in Lynd’s London home. Yet, Lynd, who was opposed to physical force, never lost his affection for his fellow unionists. He died in 1949 and asked that he be buried in ‘my own country’. He was laid to rest in the City Cemetery on the Falls Road. George Bernard Shaw and Sean O’Casey wrote tributes to him, and at his funeral were former IRA chief of staff, Sean MacBride, and Lynd’s nephew, Robert Lowry, a future Lord Chief Justice. Local historian and writer, Sean McMahon, who edited and wrote the introduction to Galway of the Races, a representative selection from Lynd’s works is the guest speaker.

Introduction by Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Chairman, R.B.A.I. Board of Governors

Chair: Joan Boyd, journalist and former BBC editor of Radio Ulster’s Talk Back award-winning programme.

Féile an Phobail presents

West Belfast Talks Back

St Louise’s Comprehensive College

Wednesday 8th August, 7.30pm

2007 at last saw the Northern Assembly established on a firm footing with the DUP and Sinn Fein sharing power – and having to face up to some tough local decisions The ramifications of last May’s general election in the South and what they mean for the North are also still to be fully realised. Tonight’s panellists discuss a range of issues from the local to the international, including policing. Speakers: Caitriona Ruane, Sinn Fein MLA, Minister for Education; Edwin Poots, DUP MLA, Minister of Culture, Arts & Leisure; Eoghan Harris, journalist and broadcaster; and Sir Des Rea, Chairman of the NI Policing Board.

Chair: BBC’s political correspondent, Martina Purdy.

The Trouble We’ve Seen – Women’s Stories from the North of Ireland

By Silvia Calamati

St Mary’s University College

Thursday 9th August, 1pm

Speakers, including Italian writer and journalist Silvia Calamati, will read from her book, The Trouble We’ve Seen, about the experiences of women whose husbands and relatives have been killed, whose children have been mutilated, who have spent years in prison and who have been blinded by plastic bullets. These stories speak of great sadness and loss, but they also speak of survival and struggle against threats, state oppression and economic and social marginalisation.

Chair: Christine Poland.

The Thirty Year War

– Journalism in the Changing Face of Conflict

St. Mary’s University College

Friday 10th August, 1pm

Veteran British journalist Peter Taylor has reported extensively on Ireland for thirty years, making more than fifty documentaries. He has written several books on the IRA, loyalist paramilitaries, the British army and the effect of conflict on families. His critically-acclaimed programmes, often the subject of controversy, threats of censorship and criticism from all sides, have been among the most informed on the Irish Question. In recent years he has also researched and presented up to a dozen documentaries on Al-Qaeda, including several Panorama Specials, and is undoubtedly the pre-eminent journalist in his field.

Chair: Dr Jude Collins, writer and broadcaster.

Sponsored by Belfast Media Group.

An Irish Eye

By Gerry Adams

St Mary’s University College

Saturday 11th August, 12 noon

Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams MP in conversation with Anne Cadwallader at the launch of his new book of political writings (An Irish Eye) covering the IRA decision to formally end its armed campaign and to put its arms beyond use, to the Sinn Fein decision to support the policing and justice system. It also includes reflections on visits to the Basque country and to the Middle East and the politics of both.

“Gerry Adams is a skilled writer with a sound intellectual foundation for his political beliefs” – Time

Anne Cadwallader is a journalist with Independent Network News (INN) and writes for the Irish Echo (New York)

Scribes At The Rock,

The Rock Bar

Thursday 9th August, 4pm

A great line-up, as usual, so be sure to be there before doors close at 3.45pm sharp. Pay £3 at door.

Daniel Cassidy is the founder and co-director of the Irish Studies Program at New College of California in San Francisco. He has written for films and television and has worked with director Francis Ford Coppola (The Godfather; Apocalypse Now) and actor Danny Glover. His documentary Civil Rights and Civil Wrongs was nominated for an Emmy in 1997. Daniel has toured with his music all across North America, playing Carnegie Hall, as well as dive bars and juke joints from Brooklyn to San Francisco. His new book How the Irish Invented Slang: the Secret language of the Crossroads cuts through 200 years of Anglo-American baloney and reveals the massive hidden influence of the Irish language on American and English slang. This afternoon he will give us ‘the skinny’ (inside info) on how the Irish invented slang and might also sing a few songs if arm-twisted!
Annie McCartney is an actress and a successful writer of short stories, radio plays and the comedy drama series ‘Two Doors Down’ for BBC Radio 4, on which her current book is based. Annie is the author of two other novels, Desire Lines, and Your Cheatin’ Heart. She is a regular broadcaster on BBC Radio Ulster and RTE. At Scribes Annie will be formally launching Two Doors Down and introducing us to characters such as Sally O’Neill who house keeps for (the class conscious) Edith Black, (Eco-friendly) Saffron McNamara and (highly-strung) Clare McDonald who all live on Marlborough Road. Sally is a confidante to all three women and their deepest secrets until …but that would be spoiling things! Come along and get your copies signed!

Geoff Gatt is a songwriter from West Belfast. He loves to perform and interact with an audience, and has done so in many forms over the last few years playing his diverse material at singer/songwriter nights, band events and recently in the form of a self-written musical, ‘Hippos in the Shower’. He loves to write about the unconventional: his songs tackle beards, lobsters and, of course, love. Together with his cheeky friends look forward to some Ukulele, some love and some laughs!

Levi Tafari, poet extraordinaire, has been exciting audiences for many years now not just in Britain but this year alone he has toured Spain, Portugal, Madeira and Hong Kong. Levi sees himself as an Urban Griot, the griot being the traditional consciousness raiser, storyteller, newscaster and political agitator. An important element of Levi’s work is visiting schools, colleges, universities and prisons running creative writing workshops, in the hope of inspiring a new generation of performance poets. His words move to a strong reggae beat, but it’s also very humorous. His work is rhythmic and lyrical and in the past he has teamed up with reggae, soul and funk fusion bands and has also spent two seasons as poet in residence with The Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra. He will be reading from his work, including from his new collection of poetry, From the Page to the Stage.

An Irish Eye

By Gerry Adams

St Mary’s University College

Saturday 11th August, 12 noon

Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams MP in conversation with Anne Cadwallader at the launch of his new book of political writings (An Irish Eye) covering the IRA decision to formally end its armed campaign and to put its arms beyond use, to the Sinn Fein decision to support the policing and justice system. It also includes reflections on visits to the Basque country and to the Middle East and the politics of both.

“Gerry Adams is a skilled writer with a sound intellectual foundation for his political beliefs” – Time

Anne Cadwallader is a journalist with Independent Network News (INN) and writes for the Irish Echo (New York)

,

  • Quite a few of the events could be criticised as glorifying terrorism. However, as a whole, there is much more here that I would find really interesting. It’s a shame that the Feile is so identified in many quarters as a cultural festival for Catholic West Belfast because there is a tremendous range of activities.

    Had a chuckle at one of the events being held in Inst, my old school, with an ethos a bit different from the rest of West Belfast. Perhaps the festival could look to broadening its audience base and moving into the rest of Belfast?

  • Pete Baker

    I’ll leave the launch of Adams’ new book for someone else.. ;o)

    And just mention that, in relation to the first point noted..

    “In 1631 hundreds of inhabitants of Baltimore, Co. Cork were captured and brought as slaves to North Africa by Arab pirates.”

    The actual event was a little bit more complicated (and involved just over one hundred inhabitants of Baltimore, Co. Cork, not hundreds)

  • kensei

    “Quite a few of the events could be criticised as glorifying terrorism.”

    I’m at a loss to find which ones you could classify in that way, excluding Gerry Adams.

    “However, as a whole, there is much more here that I would find really interesting. It’s a shame that the Feile is so identified in many quarters as a cultural festival for Catholic West Belfast because there is a tremendous range of activities.”

    Er, why exactly can’t you go? Most are in the middle of the day and are just talks, so I don’t see personally safety being an issue. It is as much about pulling people into west Belfast and changing attitudes as being for that community.

    “Had a chuckle at one of the events being held in Inst, my old school, with an ethos a bit different from the rest of West Belfast. Perhaps the festival could look to broadening its audience base and moving into the rest of Belfast?”

    I think part of the point is that it is a community festival and it is unimportant as it keeps lose ties to the community. Though if you look at the schedule on the website I think some of the events extend into the city centre.

  • darth rumsfeld

    Well it breaks my heart that the mighty Buzzcocks are playing Andytown leisure centre on the same day as I have to reliberate Londonderry, August 11th, so I won’t have to plan where to hide my car when trying to pogo with the other sad 40plusses.

    Perhaps they’ll come back to Spring & Airbrake later in the year so I can relive my longlost youth

    …Everybody’s happy nowadays

  • Garibaldy

    Sring and Airbrake Darth? Who’d have thunk it?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Reality Check: No court ever “exonerated” Sunny Jacobs. She spent 16 years in prison. She was not freed by a guardian angel or admission or erro, as the above would suggest. She was released on time served after entering an “Alford” guilty plea to two counts of Murder 2. She is legally guilty by virtue of a plea and sentence. Using the word “exonerated” to describe her is torturing the language as if on the rack, stretching definintions har beyond their actual meaning.

  • The Afro-Basque Fire Brigade? Not the type liable to be bricked in that region then?

  • Daithi O

    Come on now. “Catholic West Belfast”? Féile has for years been a hub for ALL of Belfast and beyond. Just examine where the tickets are sold and where people travel from to enjoy Féile events. 2007 alone has seen Féile events on the Shankill, An Tor ar Lasadh, the Presbyterian Irish language association, prominent musicians playing the fife, lambeg and bagpipes, Northern Ireland Piping and Drumming School, the Whiterock Orange Lodge with an exhibition this Summer, The Duke of York and the Black Box in the city centre and Inst. Hardly a Festival of ‘Catholic West Belfast’. Drop your prejudices and get in and enjoy the events. There’s a great program this year for ticket prices you couldn’t beat.

  • circles

    Yeah – should have fried her like her hubby. At least nobody can claim he was exonerated!

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Circles: “Yeah – should have fried her like her hubby. At least nobody can claim he was exonerated! ”

    If it were truly as the play and Ms. Jacobs would have you believe, why have not more mainstream anti-death penalty groups sought to make hay out of this, the magical, mythical “innocent man executed” scenario they have frothed about (and, I would think, secretly hoped for — a martyr for the cause…) for the last couple decades? I would submit they haven’t because it *ISN’T* a such a case — she bought the guns used to kill the police officers, for starters, so her fairy tale of being a wholly innocent by-stander to matters is damaged right from the start.

    She made an Alford plea — which is to say she didn’t contest the fact she was guilty. She was not exonerated — an Alford plea *IS* a guilty plea — but pled down to a lesser count and was released on time served.

    The anti-death penalty crowd does itself a dis-service by playing fast and loose with the facts in this fashion. If you’re going to go to the trouble of fashioning poster-children for your cause, would it not be easier to start with better material, or at least better lies?

  • kensei,

    I think on hindsight I went too far with my remark about quite a few of the events “glorifying terrorism”. But I am struck by the “Bobby Sands Memorial Cup”, held under the Feile, where local footballers are to “pay tribute” to the hunger-strikers. And there’s the Irish Republican History Museum including “weapons used in the cause of Irish freedom”. However, I don’t want to labour the point as there is a lot of stuff that would be worth going to see – if only I still lived in the occupied statelet.

    I think that when you look at the various political, historical and cultural events under the Feile banner, you see a bias towards the interests, priorities and wider political sympathies of Catholic West Belfast. That’s not surprising and may limit the Feile’s cross-community appeal in the future. I happily take Daithi’s points on board. I’m particularly pleased to see Whiterock LOL’s involvement as it was my family’s lodge half a century ago.

    It will be interesting to see how the Feile will develop over the next few years. Hope everyone has a great time.

  • circles

    2 things Cthulhu.
    Firstly, your supplementary information then seems to underline what i said – should have fried her like her hubby. At least nobody can claim he was exonerated.
    Secondly, I was very much taken by your “the magical, mythical “innocent man executed” scenario”. I assume by mythical you are positing that this has never happened. Judges and juries have always been right. The innocent are never convicted, never mind executed?
    Either your tongue is so far in your cheek that its stickin out yer ear, or your reality cable has come loose.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    The Watchman: “I think that when you look at the various political, historical and cultural events under the Feile banner, you see a bias towards the interests, priorities and wider political sympathies of Catholic West Belfast.”

    Gee, a festival that reflects the interests and values of the folks who organized it… I’m shocked.

    The Watchman: “I’m particularly pleased to see Whiterock LOL’s involvement as it was my family’s lodge half a century ago. ”

    Wonder what they’ll be exhibiting…

  • It will be interesting to see it develop. It will be particularly interesting if state agencies such as NITB get on board in a meaningful way in order to support and promote it.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Circles: “I was very much taken by your “the magical, mythical “innocent man executed” scenario”. I assume by mythical you are positing that this has never happened. Judges and juries have always been right. The innocent are never convicted, never mind executed? ”

    Hardly. It was directed at the legions of hand-wringers who have been salivating the thought of a proble case of an honestly innocent being executed so they could use that error as a club against the death penalty. I say “mythical” in the sense that such a case is much talked about in the abstract, but no one ever seems to have a hard and fast example when shove meets push, the indisputably innocent individual wrongly executed where the speaker may say “THAT case, right there” that none could seriously dispute. The Jacobs case is dressed up as if it were such a case, but, when examined outside the play and its supporters, falls flat on its face.

    Furthermore, I respectfully submit that the more marginal organizations seek to “sanitize” tales like Ms. Jacobs — present untruths as facts — the more they damage their cause as a whole.

    Like I said, they’ll need to either get better material or tell smarter lies.

  • circles

    I say “mythical” in the sense that such a case is much talked about in the abstract, but no one ever seems to have a hard and fast example when shove meets push….that none could seriously dispute.”
    Well thats the nature of the thing isn’t it? Will somebody ever say – “Actually yes I executed that innocent man. Looks like I’m next for the buzzy chair”.
    In any case is a very weak argument against the death penalty I find. The fact that the state murders people is the problem (not that a wee innocent one might slip through the net).
    From that perspective it would be interesting to hear what Ms. Jacobs has to say

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Circles: “Well thats the nature of the thing isn’t it? Will somebody ever say – “Actually yes I executed that innocent man. Looks like I’m next for the buzzy chair”. ”

    Catch up with the times — its the needle nowadays, ‘cept in those nations that never used the chair to begin with…

    Circles: “In any case is a very weak argument against the death penalty I find.”

    Most of the arguments against the death penalty are weak… but then, most of the arguments for the death penalty aren’t much to write home about, either.

    In some cases, however, death is a just punishment for a horrible crime or series of crimes.

    Circles: “The fact that the state murders people is the problem (not that a wee innocent one might slip through the net). ”

    Ah, but that has little enough to do with my argument, which is on the foolishness of the anti-death penalty crowd in making trying to pass off the likes of Jacobs as an “exonerated innocent wrongly put on death row.” It not quite as dumb as wearing, say, a Che Guevara T-shirt of to an anti-death penalty rally, but it certainly does not advance the cause.

  • Turgon

    Dread Cthulhu / circles,
    Have there been any cases where say DNA evidence has shown an executed person could noot have been guilty.? There have been some people awaiting execution who have been exonerated hwve there not or is that just a fiction? I am not trying to start an argument just wondered

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Turgon: “Have there been any cases where say DNA evidence has shown an executed person could noot have been guilty.? There have been some people awaiting execution who have been exonerated hwve there not or is that just a fiction? I am not trying to start an argument just wondered ”

    Not to my knowledge — most of responsible efforts has been focused upon living prisoners, rather than dead ones. The results have been mixed — some exonerated, some legally impaled on the DNA tests they demanded.

    To be fair, circles has more of a point than I would really care to acknowledge — its not really my business to make anyone else’s arguement for them. The appeals process should be shorter, but looser, in that it should not go on as long as it does (decades) but should be more amenable to the introduction of new evidence.

    My personal annoyance is when the “beautiful people” decide that this prisoner or that prisoner is a trendy cause without much of a look at the underlying facts, such as Jacob’s purchase of the firearms in the case above, while less popular (but perhaps more deserving) cases sit in obscurity.

  • circles

    As much as it chokes, Cthulhu has a point in that particular cases become a cause celebre, whilst the actual practice itself conveniently slips out of the discussion.

    Referring to this particular case, as far as I know the purchase of firearms in the US is not yet reason enough to be on death row Cthulhu – and the results of plea bargaining aren’t necessarily a reflection of reality. And as long as the onus is on proving guilt, even if there is a shadow of discussion about the guilt of a particular prisoner execution should be stalled.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Circles: “Referring to this particular case, as far as I know the purchase of firearms in the US is not yet reason enough to be on death row Cthulhu”

    It is enough to demonstrate her an accessory before the fact and, when combined with her deliberate efforts to confuse and conceal the facts of the case at the time of her arrest (thereby making her an accessory after the fact, btw), it is enough to make her equally culpable(or nearly so) as the murders in the eyes of the law at the time of the crime.

    Circles: “and the results of plea bargaining aren’t necessarily a reflection of reality.”

    Neither are the grandiose claims of Ms. Jacobs and her partisans, Circles. A no-contest plea and a sweetheart deal brough about by pressure from celebrities is neither exoneration or innocence.

    Circles: “And as long as the onus is on proving guilt, even if there is a shadow of discussion about the guilt of a particular prisoner execution should be stalled. ”

    Which is done at trial — the threshold for guilt in a criminal proceeding is “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

    Again, you’re suffering under the misplaced notion that I am arguing in favor of the death-penalty — I’m not, leastwise not in the main. I am arguing that Ms. Jacobs (and her partisans) use of inappropriate language regarding the facts in her case damage the anti-death penalty cause, in so far as the lies — no mere omissions of fact, but out-right deliberate misrepresentations of fact — undermine their goal, especially how easily they’re de-bunked. They would be better served putting the facts on the table, perhaps with a defiant, but honest, “I pled guilty to get out of jail” than misleading hyperbole of her “exoneration.” Likewise, painting her as an innocent when her involvement in matters is easily proven, is not a useful tool — it will only work when preaching to the converted and the choir.

  • Turgon

    I am coming at this as someone who knows little about the law especially USA law. Is the oft repeated “fact” that black people are much more likely to be sentenced to death, poor people more likely etc. correct?

  • davey

    ‘But I am struck by the “Bobby Sands Memorial Cup”, held under the Feile, where local footballers are to “pay tribute” to the hunger-strikers.’

    Could be worse, the Irish Football Association might allow Glentoran Football Club to commemorate uvf/pup leader David Ervine at an irish league match against a nationalist supported team like Cliftonville.

    ooops they did….Football for all..

  • Cruimh

    Were the IFA involved in that disgraceful decision?

  • Dewi

    am coming at this as someone who knows little about the law especially USA law. Is the oft repeated “fact” that black people are much more likely to be sentenced to death, poor people more likely etc. correct?

    Turgon – Yes.

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=5&did=184

  • Dewi

    Festival looks superb actually. Hope you all enjoy.

  • Cruimh

    “I can’t recall the IFA taking any sanctions against Glentoran on this matter”

    Nothing to do with the queston I asked allybo –

    the claim was made that the IFA had approved this in advance of it happening.

    “the Irish Football Association might allow Glentoran Football Club to commemorate uvf/pup leader David Ervine at an irish league match against a nationalist supported team like Cliftonville.

    ooops they did….”

    So – did the IFA know there was going to be a minue’s silence and allow it to happen ?

  • Turgon

    Thanks Dewi,

    I thought that was the case but that is interesting if a bit depressing. Hope you are not flooded by the way. It did not seem to get to Wales apart from Barry. Is that correct?

  • Dewi

    Not flooded Turgon – sister in Oxford was though -and I got stuck in London !. You lot escaped then ? Hope all is well.

  • It should be pointed out that along with the afore-mentioned Bobby Sands Cup, there is an anti-racist football tournament and “samba” soccer training taking place at this year’s Feile

  • Cruimh

    “I have no idea whether the IFA knew in advance and neither definitivley do you, Cruimh. ”

    Precisely – difference is that I didn’t make a claim that they did. However davey made the claim and I’m asking him to back it up.

    Whataboutery should at least be accurate.

  • Cruimh

    Still rying to lay down smoke allybo ?

    The ervine thing was disgraceful – and has NOTHING to do with this hungerstriker terrorfest

    davey made a claim about the IFA – which had NOTHING to do with this hungerstriker terrorfest – but he should back it up.

    and now you are trying to distract from that with another as yet unsubstantiated claim about the IFA which has NOTHING to do with this hungerstriker terrorfest.

  • Cruimh

    Blimey allybo, you are scattering enough red herrings – or should that be green herrings? – about to keep a John West factory canning for a month of Sundays LOL

    Davey’s whataboutery has nothing to do with the West Belfast Terrorfest.

  • circles

    Cruimh catch yerself on for goodness sake. “Terrorfest” like!!
    Any chance of you actually backing up that stupid labelling of yours – other than the fact that you may not agree with the poltiical perpective of the festival? And of course your opinion on Bobby Sands.

    By the way – in my opinion the David Ervine whatboutery here is embarassing. Any chance of getting to the programme of the feile and not trading the usual playground shite talk?

  • lib2016

    allybo

    If the IFA had brains they would be dangerous but the fact that they go out of their way to alienate half their potential support suggests that we can all sleep safely in our beds. Let them be – they aren’t worth it.

  • Cruimh

    “Cruimh catch yerself on for goodness sake. “Terrorfest” like!! ”

    Circles – if one banner celebrating one loyalist terrorist damns the whole Orange celebration, then likewise for something that celebrates TEN
    terrorists .

  • Cruimh

    “Why didn’t you answer the question, Cruimh?”

    because it has nothing to do with the thread allybo 🙂

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Turgon: “am coming at this as someone who knows little about the law especially USA law. Is the oft repeated “fact” that black people are much more likely to be sentenced to death, poor people more likely etc. correct? ”

    Accurate, but misleading. A more apt description of the problem is economic, not racial. Less economically advantage segments of the population are unable to afford private defense lawyers, skilled experts in forensics, etc.

  • Dewi

    Turgon: “am coming at this as someone who knows little about the law especially USA law. Is the oft repeated “fact” that black people are much more likely to be sentenced to death, poor people more likely etc. correct? “

    Accurate, but misleading. A more apt description of the problem is economic, not racial. Less economically advantage segments of the population are unable to afford private defense lawyers, skilled experts in forensics

    maybe – but still means black people get executed.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Dewi: “maybe – but still means black people get executed. ”

    They also commit a disproportionate percentage of the crime. Do not mistake a relation between numbers with a correlation.

  • circles

    “”Cruimh catch yerself on for goodness sake. “Terrorfest” like!! “

    Circles – if one banner celebrating one loyalist terrorist damns the whole Orange celebration, then likewise for something that celebrates TEN
    terrorists .”

    Well dear readers, Cruimh has just displayed the classic playground variation of “whataboutery”. Not a very refined line of argumentation I would agree – but blunt enough to put a stop to any kind of sensible debate.

  • kensei

    “They also commit a disproportionate percentage of the crime. Do not mistake a relation between numbers with a correlation.”

    Actually, to get a real idea of treatment you’d have to look at sentencing in comparison with other people of the same class. Anyone done any research on that?

    Also, there could be bias in the law. For example, if the two populations engaged in different drugs (like say crack vs refined cocaine) and one was more heavily punished than the other, you’d wind up with similar levels of crime but vastly different punishments.