“an attack on all of the positive steps forward..”

One bomb explodes near Newry and another device is dealt with by an Army bomb disposal unit, according to the reports the Belfast-Dublin rail link was closed for a time and traffic in the area disrupted. No injuries and little damage this time though. So, once more with feeling – “Would you ask members of the community who see anything suspicious to go to the police?” Adds The Belfast Telegraph report points out that the first explosion took place some time on Sunday.. the second device was discovered two days later – “Details of the incident were only made public last night when the security alert ended.”

, , ,

  • lib2016

    Yeah, right. That’s what we really need. Loyalty oaths for every sheugh-digger in Fermanagh.

  • Dec

    In a word, ‘No’. Though I’d wish these organisations would stop wasting everyone’s time.

  • …the Belfast-Dublin rail link was closed for a time…

    In what I suspect is a different incident, the line was closed between Dundalk and Newry from early Monday afternoon until the first train left this morning.

  • Turgon

    Lib2016 / Dec,
    Right so you both oppose such attacks. These attacks could have killed people. I am presuming here that you would oppose that. If you knew a device which could kill someone had been left would it not be sensible to tell the police so that such a device could be dealt with and hence no one killed?

    Lib2016 “Yeah, right. That’s what we really need. Loyalty oaths for every sheugh-digger in Fermanagh.” No this is not about loyality to the state it is about people not being put at risk of dying.

    And lib2016 I hate to give geography lessons but Newry is not in Fermanagh so the last part of your post is just silly.

  • Reader

    Dec: In a word, ‘No’. Though I’d wish these organisations would stop wasting everyone’s time.
    So, not Newry then. Then suppose the bomb was somewhere else, say Dundalk or Dublin. “Would you ask members of the public who saw anything suspicious to go to the police?”

  • Fraggle

    Turgon, some lateral thinking is needed. I guessed he was referring to Michelle Gildernew who was involved in a controversy over this issue. Her constituency includes Fermanagh. The link PB provided referred to Strabane, also not near Newry.

  • Frank Sinistra

    No Republican would assist the irreformable and reactionary RUC/PSNI in any way. Most Republicans accept these attacks are counter productive, if they even come from Republicans, and are working towards their end.

    God knows what SF think.

  • Dewi

    Surely by now it’s time for SF to encourage people tell the police anything they know.

  • Cruimh

    Dewi – I’ll possibly surprise people here, but I think it’s counter-productive now that SF have sgned up to policing to try and put them on the spot over incidents like this.

  • Northsider

    I would rather be blown to smithereens by recalcitrant MI5 agents than pick up the phone to unreconstructed PSNI/RUC with added Catholics on top.

    Cos you know what, it is brace men like these who will lead us to the Republic.

    I’m being ironic. Look it up in the OED if you’re unsure.

  • Dewi

    Cruimh – they could phone in gaelic – sorry.

  • Kevster

    Cruimh, I agree.

  • Pete Baker
  • Fitzy

    i understand that it’s not a simple task, but SF should be creating structures to help marshall their followers into interaction with law enforcement. any rational person has to see that there is a section of the northern community who currently want nothing to do with the police… some for good reason, and some because that’s what their ma’s and da’s taught them when they were wee.

    sf should set up some mechanism for people uneasy with the police to convey information via a third party. only after positive experiences will skeptics be brought around.

    … and poor old strabane should resist re-electing this donkey…

  • Cruimh

    “Ah.. the don’t ask ‘stupid’ questions response.. ”

    More the “there’s more than one way to skin a cat” response Pete. If we want nationalist support we should ask for it rather than demand it in such a way as to seem to be playing partisan politics ( yep, same case as I’m putting on the Irish Language Act thread. Ask nice, don’t demand.)

  • ffs

    Hang on, how can you be in a party which supposedly supports the police and then equivocate on whether or not you’d report A BOMB to the police?!
    Jesus wept. Pathetic.

  • Doctor Who

    Connor Cruise O´Brien in a Belfast Telegraph article a few years back predicted that when the Shinners had destroyed the SDLP, the Republican movement would re-ignite their campaign of terror.

    Are we seeing the first signs of this and should the present Sinn fein leadership be doing more and indeed be held accountable for these unaceptable actions. Is their condemnation genuine, do they support law and democracy.

  • circles

    Doctor Who – did you never think of choosing Doctor What The F***?
    Such sheer and utter nonsense – are you layig the groundwork for the bad UDA to get back into action in their “defensive” operations.
    *shakes head*

  • Fitzy

    ffs, you’re simplifying the situation too much. whether you like it or not, the RUC has been a political (orange/loyalist/protestant/unionist/british) institution for as long as anyone on this site has been alive. some people are entitled to their their skepticism of the new RUC->PSNI.
    the sf councillor’s biggest sin wasn’t his reluctance to say “ANYONE WITH INFO GO STRAIGHT TO THE PSNI”. A large portion of our community (people from the north, orange and green) would have problems doing so. what he/sf should have done was present an alternative method for his constituents to provide information.

  • DK

    Correct Fitzy – there should be alternatives for people like lib2016/Dec/Frank Sinistra who are not happy to go to the PSNI. Not sure what those alternatives are… speack to a priest maybe. But ultimately, it is not a priest who will have to defuse the bomb or seal off the area, so at some point someone will have to talk to the PSNI. I suppose if it eases their consciences that they haven’t talked to the PSNI directly, but rather spoke to someone else who does it for them, and we all avoid late trains/loss of limbs then we should be grateful.

    But lib2016/Dec/Frank Sinistra if whoever you talk to is going to go to the PSNI anyway, why not just go yourselves and cut out the middleman. Saves time too, which could be critical.

  • Reader

    DK: Not sure what those alternatives are… speack to a priest maybe.
    Tick, tock. Or even a local Prod. Tick, tock. Or phone the Garda? Tick tock. Because while they are hunting for intermediaries to to do what needs to be done, the bomb might br getting closer to blowing someone to smithereens. Tick, tock. Or a real hard-core non-dissident republican could solve the problem by de-fusing the bomb themselves. Tick, tock. Unless they think that’s treason.

  • McGrath

    Not sure why any segment of society would choose to support in any way the people who are doing this. Surely the risk posed by these people far outweighs any spite there is for the PNSI?

    To those who would not support the police in this matter, I would like to hear your alternative solutions.

  • Dec

    If you knew a device which could kill someone had been left would it not be sensible to tell the police so that such a device could be dealt with and hence no one killed?

    Turgon

    You seem to be discounting the possibility (actually, reality) that the PSNI already knew about these devices long before they were planted through one of their many informers within these organisations. Surely, you don’t inhabit the ‘Dixon of Dock Green’-world Pete resides where
    every copper has the looks and gentle charm of Jack Warner?

  • Shame

    The GFA has yet to reach the Protestants of Newry.

  • jpeters

    if your committed to the political process in the north there is no half in half out, as such everyone in NI who signed up to that process, in one way or another, has a responsibility and an interest in the maintenance of the society the political process has now created. This in itself should should make it clear what an individual should do. In addition we have one of the most supervised police forces in the world and mechanisms of conveying information to them (confidential telephone lines etc). I don’t see any crisis of conscience here for anyone, its not even a question of loyalty to the state

  • the facts

    Newry – 99% Republican – 100% British 🙂

  • move-forward

    I think Sinn Fein finally realised that they had achieved as much reform of the PSNI as they could from the outside when they finally signed up to the policing boards. The fact that they have done so is a recognition that it is time to move to the next stage.

    The reality is that the PSNI can never become an acceptable force to republicans for as long as republicans refuse to participate. It is easy to stand at the outside and point at “them’uns” and say that they can’t be trusted as they don’t include “people I respect and trust”. The hard part is to move from being on the outside pointing to being on the inside working to reform the organisation. For as long as republicans refuse to participate their claims about the acceptability of the PSNI as an organisation will remain valid, but what they need to recognise is that the solution is in their own hands if they are brave enough to make the step.

  • DK

    DEC: “You seem to be discounting the possibility (actually, reality) that the PSNI already knew about these devices long before they were planted”

    So Dec has moved from saying that he wouldn’t tell the PSNI if he saw a bomb to giving a reason: the PSNI know about it already, sure they probably planted it.

    Can we establish an award for republican fantasist of the week?

  • Rory

    There seems to be a strong assumption here that people from the nationalist community who are opposed to these bombs somehow knew about them in advance and knew who planted them and are simply refusing to let the police know.

    Why should this be so? Do people imagine that those responsible for the bombings alert everyone in their community (bar the police) to their doings and simply rely on their silence? I think not.

    Why not demand that the bombers surrender themselves as soon as they have planted their devices in a spirit of co-operation with the new police service? It’s all too silly.

  • Thanks to the Republican agenda the their prediction of a failing PSNI becomes a self fulfilling prohecy. “I won’t co-operate with the cops because they won’t do anything” but they can’t do anything if they don’t have the information. Ofcourse this is the same group that victimised their own people who joined the cops then harp on about how there aren’t enough of them in service.

    I’d laugh if it wasn’t so serrious.

  • Ian

    “Would you ask members of the community who see anything suspicious to go to the police?”

    Well at least now if a member of the nationalist community did see something suspicious, they can make the personal decision to approach the police without being ostracised (or worse) by the rest of their community. Which is progress.

    At least that’s the official SF line. But it’s the best that political unionism dare demand at the moment, given their own ambiguous attitude to the rule of law (the annually tolerated environmental crime that is the 11th night being just one recent example). I guess that’s why the DUP have gone into power-sharing on the current basis.

  • Dec

    So Dec has moved from saying that he wouldn’t tell the PSNI if he saw a bomb to giving a reason: the PSNI know about it already, sure they probably planted it.

    Can we establish an award for republican fantasist of the week

    D**K

    Not aware I moved anywhere. No, i wouldn’t tell them and yes, I expect they knew about the devices before they were planted. These organisations are riddled top to toe with informers, and planting devices on railway lines is pretty small beer in the grand scheme of things. (As are murders carried out by the UVF in Mount Vernon, apparently).

    “Evening all!”

  • Thegull

    Isn’t it funny how both Republicans and Loyalists have planted bombs on the Belfast to Dublin rail line? Opposite aims, same acts.

  • lib2016

    “..both Republicans and Loyalists have planted bombs on the Belfast to Dublin rail line?”

    Not to mention that the British Army were quite fond of phoning in bomb threats as they had facilities for checking road traffic but not for checking rail passengers. Come to that they undoubtedly still have number-recognition surveillance on the North-South roads……..

  • Turgon

    Dec
    “planting devices on railway lines is pretty small beer in the grand scheme of things.”

    Well if the bomb derails the train and lots of people are killed that is hardly “small beer” is it?, especially not if you or your relatives were on the train. remember that various crashes in England have been caused by things like the rails being damaged.

    I guess planting a bomb beside a wall in Enniskillen on Rememberance Sunday was pretty small beer by your logic.

    Lets try a different one. If you saw a distressed child bungled into a car and driven off at speed what would you do about that?

  • lib2016

    My earlier sarcastic reference to the need for ‘a loyalty oath for every sheugh-digger in Fermanagh’ was a quote from Austin Currie referring to one of the grievances which began the Civil Rights campaign.

    Adams and other Sinn Fein leaders have made huge efforts and taken huge personal risks in order to help the PSNI become acceptable to nationalists, just as others have taken political and physical risks for peace on the unionist side.

    The people striving to set new obstacles up for Sinn Fein are the same people who have been rejected at the polls because their tactics have cost unionism dearly.

    This is a process, not a once-for-all event and spiteful attacks by upholders of the old ways should be seen for what they are. Policing will certainly be a contentious issue for years to come but the people who prefer to publicly question the opposition’s good faith rather than find ways to work with them have been defeated already.

  • Turgon

    lib2016,
    More waffle.
    What is at issue is not simply support for the police. It is support for everyone’s right to life. These bombs could have caused death and certainly caused disruption. You and several others have suggested it is inappropriate to inform the PSNI about a bomb on a railway line. Since the people who planted it will very likely have left all informing the police will do is prevent damage and the significant possibility of death and injury.

    I am not “striving to set new obstacles up for Sinn Fein ” I am suggesting people strive to prevent death and destruction.

    As I asked Dec would you ring the police if you saw a small child dragged into a car?

  • lib2016

    Impostor alert!

  • Pete Baker

    Lib

    Duly noted.

  • Cruimh

    “As I asked Dec would you ring the police if you saw a small child dragged into a car? ”

    Turgon – doing it and admitting to it are very different things. According to a friend in the cops even at the worst of time there was co-operation behind the scenes when things like that happened.

  • lib2016

    Cruimh,

    I couldn’t possibly comment! 😉

    All my life I have opposed violence. Indeed I have felt guilty now and then for refusing to defend my community by force and for opposing those who did.

    It must be nice for those who don’t feel that life is more full of greys than simple blacks and whites.

  • Cruimh

    “It must be nice for those who don’t feel that life is more full of greys than simple blacks and whites. ”

    I use Daz- no more greys 😉