Parades Commission determines on Drumcree parade

As highlighted by the Belfast Telegraph report, the Parades Commission today issued a determination on the 8th July Drumcree Parish Church Annual Parade by Portadown District LOL No 1

The Parades Commission re-affirms its desire to see a long-term resolution of parading in Portadown. The Commission is clear in its view that the only appropriate and sensible resolution is agreement between all parties involved. That agreement may be that a parade takes place on the Garvaghy Road. It may be for no parade on the Garvaghy Road. What is essential is that the precise nature of that agreement is a matter entirely and solely for the parties to the dialogue process.

From the Parade Commission’s determination document

A. In respect of the outward route, the parade is prohibited from entering that part of the notified route between the junction of High Street and Woodhouse Street and the junction of Obins Street and Charles Street, or any part of that route. The parade shall process from its point of departure at Carlton Street into Church Street, Market Street and High Street to the junction of Castle Street, turning back along High Street and Market Street, before turning into West Street. From West Street it shall turn into Northway and join the Corcrain Road. It shall then process along the Corcrain Road into Charles Street, along Charles Street to the Dungannon Road/Moy Road Roundabout, along the Dungannon Road to the Rectors Turn, Drumcree Church. In respect of the return route, the parade is prohibited from proceeding beyond Drumcree Parish Church, Drumcree Road, or entering that part of the route which includes the entire length of the Garvaghy Road, including Parkmount, and Victoria Terrace. The return parade shall retrace the outward route as detailed above or alternatively parade participants shall disperse no later than 2.30 pm from Drumcree Parish Church.

B. The parade organiser shall ensure that the parade shall begin and disperse promptly.

C. Only those bands notified on the Form 11/1 may participate in the parade.

D. When the parade is in progress there shall be no undue stoppages or delays. Where practicable the parade shall stay close to the near side of the road at all times to minimise disruption and to facilitate the passing of vehicular and other traffic.

E. The organiser shall arrange for the presence of an adequate number of stewards to ensure that all parade participants act in an orderly manner.

F. The parade organiser shall bring to the attention of stewards the guidance for parade participants contained in Appendices A and B of the Commission’s Code of Conduct. For ease of reference Appendices A and B are reproduced below.

G. The parade organiser shall ensure that all stewards and participants obey any direction given by the police in relation to this parade.

H. The parade organiser shall ensure that these conditions are drawn to the attention of all participants.

, , ,

  • Sean

    Very Sensible

  • observer

    violent republicans win again

  • derek

    ‘violent republicans win again’

    Its the orange order that’s in bed with fully armed & active terrorists

  • Sean

    Violent republicans?

  • ciaran

    Peaceful residents more like.

  • observer

    the reason the order cant march is because of the likelyhood of violence erupting from the republican residents who cant stand a prod about the place

  • URQUHART

    Feck me, does the debate always have to be so predictable so bloody quickly????

  • Sean

    hmmmmm who were the people rioting against the police for the last 10 years?

  • spiritof07

    i dont even think ‘likelyhood’ is a word…….

  • barney

    the reason the order cant march is because of the likelyhood of violence erupting from the republican residents who cant stand a prod about the place

    observer

    Portadown orange order leaders standing on a platform in support of, and with Billy Wright really helped their case !

  • observer

    Portadown orange order leaders standing on a platform in support of, and with Billy Wright really helped their case !
    Posted by barney on Jun 28, 2007 @ 11:39 PM

    G Road residents vote for sinn fein/ira who killed as many protestants as they could

  • URQUHART

    I guess the answer to my question is yes.

  • Billy

    Observer

    Garvaghy Road residents aren’t applying to march through the Protestant neighbourhoods and provoke people.

    The OO want to march through a predominantly Catholic neighbourhood where their presence is provocative and unwelcome.

    That’s the difference.

    Was it “violent Republicans” who killed the Quinn children, Robert Hamill or Michael McGoldrick?

    No, I think it was the LVF whose leaders were so friendly with Harold Gracey and the Portadown OO leaders. Hardly a good example for an organisation dedicated to “civil and religious liberty” is it?

    Given the actions of OO supporters over the years at Drumcree – you’ve got some nerve to talk about “violent republicans”.

    If the OO ever gets around to shedding it’s links with “loyalist” terror groups, you might be in a position to criticise others.

    Until then, your criticisms are blatent and obvious hypocrisy.

  • snakebrain

    I can’t hear myself think for all the whatabouting

    What about the football? Did anyone see it?

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathy C

    Hi all, did you read the article in the Belfast Telegrahp that reported how a US Congressman is opposing the addition of the orange order to a Northern Ireland Smithsonian Folklife festival in Wash DC because the orange order is akin to the KKK in their anti-Catholic behavior and beliefs. Good to see some people see the orange order as they truely are. The parades commission should ban all orange order parades as hate parades…..

  • DK

    More interestingly, this scotches the rumour that Sinn Fein had done a deal on the Garvaghy Road and that is why Brendan McKenna left Sinn Fein. One in the eye for the conspiracy theorists.

  • jpeters

    URQUHART

    your bang on the money this time.

    can no one look at the issue of an individual parade and were it can march and cant march taking into consideration the facts as they now stand without this repetitive laying out of the usual history of victimhood on both sides!

    the orange isssue is getting very tedious on slugger, i’ve seen no attempt at discussion which would lead to compromise just the same old rehashes.

    thank god for the parades commission!

  • Cruimh

    “The OO want to march through a predominantly Catholic neighbourhood where their presence is provocative and unwelcome. ”

    Through? They want to walk PAST a housing estate.

  • scary_eire

    I dont usually say this and i know its not constructive debate but:

    Observer

    U are completely full of sh$t. There is no point in replyin to a guy/gal like this.

  • “Through? They want to walk PAST a housing estate”.

    Cruimh,

    In the name of God get real !! So you are now saying that the actual Garvaghy Road doesnt form part of the area…!!

    First time I’ve heard that argument from anyone, icluding Portadown LOL !!!

    Trying to lighten this up a bit – I recall at the height of the Drumcree Disputes, The Irish News running a ‘spoof’ story on April Fools Day (on their front page) claiming dramatically that the Drumcree dispute had been sensationally settled overnight and that a tunnel was going to be built underneath the Garvaghy Road to allow Orangemen to march- a resolution which was agreed by both sides! They also claimed that all the rabbits in the near by fields would have to be exterminated to make way for the proposed route and that local animals rights activists were outraged!

    They involved Brendan McKenna and a local Unionist politician in the spoof and it was ‘bought’ hook line and sinker by many readers and apparently also one local TV News reporter who rang the Irish News Newsdesk looking for more info…!

    You know something though… Maybe the ‘spoof’ was’nt actually such a bad idea after all…!

  • Cruimh

    Mac- try being honest.

    Every time the lie that the orange order want to walk through the estate is repeated somebody points out the truth – that it doesn’t go through the estate, it goes past a few gable ends and doesn’t enter the estate. From which those lovely republicans drove the protestant residents.

  • the ignorance of many of these posts speaks volumes, and reaffirms that thanks to the DUP and SF NI society is more secretarian and bitter than it has ever been. If any of the contributors fancy a histroy lesson:

    http://www.portadowndistrictlolno1.co.uk/

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The Drumcree Orange Parade

    The July anniversary church parade to Drumcree is the oldest Orange parade in the entire world. A fact which makes the Orangemen of Portadown District justly proud. The first Orange parade to Drumcree Parish Church took place in 1807 a mere decade after the formation of the Orange institution a few miles down the road in Loughgall.
    Religious services were an important aspect of Orange culture and heritage and reflected the determination to uphold the Protestant reformation and the British way of life encompassing sovereign and country. Being the mother church of Portadown it came as no surprise therefore that the Orangemen of Portadown chose Drumcree to give thanks to Almighty God for their deliverance from tyranny and arbitrary power by King William Ill, Prince of Orange.

    Since 1795, Drumcree Parish has had a long association with the cause of Orangeism – Faith, Liberty and Freedom. Indeed many of the men of the parish rallied to the aid of Dan Winter when he came under sectarian attack from the inappropriately named ‘Defenders’ at the Battle of the Diamond on 21 September 1795

    One of the first ministers to join the order was the Reverend George Maunsil, Rector of Drumcree, and a close friend of the great Orange leader Lt-Col. William Blacker. It was William’s father the Reverend Stewart Blacker, also an Orangeman, who preached the first ever sermon to the assembled brethren in 1807.

    For almost 200 years, the Orangemen of Portadown have paraded with dignity to and from the mother church at Drumcree causing or giving no offence. Throughout those years they have come under attack from stone throwers and petrol bombers and have had to endure spitting taunts and name-calling. Yet they have never retaliated and have walked with heads held high and with dignity intact along the Garvaghy Road and home to Carleton Street. All the Orangemen of Portadown ask is that they be treated with tolerance and respect by their neighbours. In Northern Ireland, there is room for two traditions and room for mutual respect between two communities.

    Successive generations of Portadown Orangemen have attended divine worship at Drumcree Parish Church. The parade route, the most direct and only one available at the time was traditionally through Obins Street on the outward leg of the journey and via ‘The Walk’ or the Garvaghy Road as it later became known, on the return leg.

    It was only with the advent of the so-called ‘Troubles’ and subsequent demographic changes in the Obins Street / Garvaghy Road area that there was some opposition to the annual Orange parades. Always conscious of the feelings of the local residents Portadown District has been at pains to avoid confrontation and to conduct themselves with the utmost decorum as befitting a religious organisation parading to and from divine worship.
    One of the first ministers to join the order was the Reverend George Maunsil, Rector of Drumcree, and a close friend of the great Orange leader Lt-Col. William Blacker. It was William’s father the Reverend Stewart Blacker, also an Orangeman, who preached the first ever sermon to the assembled brethren in 1807.

    For almost 200 years, the Orangemen of Portadown have paraded with dignity to and from the mother church at Drumcree causing or giving no offence. Throughout those years they have come under attack from stone throwers and petrol bombers and have had to endure spitting taunts and name-calling. Yet they have never retaliated and have walked with heads held high and with dignity intact along the Garvaghy Road and home to Carleton Street. All the Orangemen of Portadown ask is that they be treated with tolerance and respect by their neighbours. In Northern Ireland, there is room for two traditions and room for mutual respect between two communities.

    Successive generations of Portadown Orangemen have attended divine worship at Drumcree Parish Church. The parade route, the most direct and only one available at the time was traditionally through Obins Street on the outward leg of the journey and via ‘The Walk’ or the Garvaghy Road as it later became known, on the return leg.

    It was only with the advent of the so-called ‘Troubles’ and subsequent demographic changes in the Obins Street / Garvaghy Road area that there was some opposition to the annual Orange parades. Always conscious of the feelings of the local residents Portadown District has been at pains to avoid confrontation and to conduct themselves with the utmost decorum as befitting a religious organisation parading to and from divine worship.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • Mauds gone

    When the genuine members of the historical orange order have more say than the sectarian members who use it as a hate machine, then they will have their just place in the culture of Ireland and hopefully their parages can be enjoyed by all. I love a good lambeg!

  • Mauds gone

    Spelling error correction from above: –

    When the genuine members of the historical orange order have more say than the sectarian members who use it as a hate machine, then they will have their just place in the culture of Ireland and hopefully their parades can be enjoyed by all. I love a good lambeg!

    (Whoops, didn’t mean to call parades parages…)

  • Drumcree,

    Does Johnny Adair and the entire 3rd Battalion of The Shankill Road UDA turning up in full regalia, (without being asked to leave by adjacent Orangemen) come within “conducting themselves with the utmost decorum”
    Does the firing of a volley of shots by the LVF with C Company in the background, come under that definition?
    Hundreds of orangeman battling with police and shouting sectarian slogans at Catholic churcg-goers? Decorum….????

  • Cruimh

    Maud – genuine members have a hard time when republicans feed the hate by bring rent-a-mob onto the streets to throw bottles and petrol bombs at them.

  • arthur

    ‘Yet they have never retaliated and have walked with heads held high and with dignity intact along the Garvaghy Road and home to Carleton Street.’

    Classic stuff !!

    Maybe Billy Wright’s tanker full of petrol for burning policemen & soldiers would have lowered the heads slightly.

    After the open collaboration & support for terrorists at Druncree, they should hand their heads in shame.

  • Billy Wright is dead. J Adair is in exile. SF and the DUP share power. Drumcree isn’t a “dead duck” nor is it going away. Is it not time to move on from McKenna propoganda and resolve this with face to face dialogue today, not October, or the year after that…..

  • jpeters

    dialogue certainly is the way forward, however don’t know if it would work in this case until both sides get over their amnesia over previous, doesnt seem anyone has clean hands here

    so far in this string not one proponant of the OO or Residents has come totally clean.

    I dont mean either a debate on who caused the most suffering you guys will go on all day otherwise

  • Drumcree,

    Actually it is a “dead duck” as far as The Government is concerned. There is a real possibility that there may never be another parade down Garvaghy Road. Portadown LOL are widely perceived as the last bastion of old-fashioned sectarian bigotry and, as long as they remain like that, they will never parade down the road again… Simple as…

  • nmc

    The Orange Order sells itself as a christian, law abiding organisation. Yet we have seen their christian behaviour when they don’t get their own way on Whiterock, Drumcree etc. Children have died as a direct result of their desire to walk where they are not wanted.

    Nationalist Garvaghy Road residents are accused of bussing in a rent a mob when the OO is sitting behind a fence with thousands of pissed up tattooed thugs from all areas in Northern Ireland.

    Does anyone remember Whiterock last year? When in the past the OO wanted to walk where they were not wanted and they got their way, nationalists were beaten from the streets by the police – law and order was the thing for orangemen at that time. When the shoe’s on the other foot, and the forces of law and order decide that this time you don’t get your way then the ceremonial sword comes out and the law abiding christians are on roof tops firing petrol bombs.

    No doubt the orange order supporters will have me pigeon holed already as to what I am. Sectarian anti-orange bigot. When I was a child I lived in Ballymena, and kept friends from all sides of the political spectrum. I am friendly to this day with men who march, (Pride of the Maine I think). I know that there are many christian basically good men in the OO, but there are also many people who are hate filled bigots. The answer will be accomodation and compromise from both sides, but it’s going to be mighty hard to attain when all the OO ever does is pass the buck for the situation it creates.

  • Frank Sinistra

    Why does this walking past lie get repeated when we can easily access satellite imagery?

    The parade would go through the estate

    Bloody spoofers.

  • Billy

    Cruimh

    “From which those lovely republicans drove the protestant residents”

    Thanks for that. For one moment, we could have forgotten that this is all the fault of those Catholics. If only they didn’t want to parade through Protestant neighbourhoods provoking people.

    If only the actions of their supporters/members hadn’t led to the death of the Quinn children, Michael McGoldrick and Robert Hamill.

    Oops, sorry – that’s the OO and their supporters.

    If only those Catholics would go back to knowing their place and staying indoors while the “loyal” orders parade where they like when they like.

    How long will it be until the penny drops?, the “taigs” are no longer 2nd class citizens and the Unionists no longer have the RUC/UDR to back them up and the UK govt has faced down the Orange card once and for all.

    I hope the day will come when an OO parade can once again go down Garvaghy Road. This will only happen when the OO respect the rights of Catholic residents and have the decency/courtesy to speak to them.

    If they (and you) want to go demanding the right to walk the “Queen’s Highway” while refusing to deal with their links to “loyalist” terrorists and riotous behaviour, that’s fine. The UK govt have shown that the “Orange Card” doesn’t work any more – without the backing of the UK govt, RUC/UDR, the OO so-called “leadership” is a busted flush.

    Until the OO are prepared to back down to a reasonable position, they’ll get nowhere.

  • graduate

    Kathy C,
    Wopuld it be worth pointing out that OO never took off in southern states of USA because they refused to bow to KKK demands to keep African-Americans out of the organisation. IE the Order lived true to its founding ideals- Liberty toleration of religion and freedom of speech. In return please don’t give me all the usual c**p about the OO being anti-catholic. It came into being to prevent Protestrants being overwhelmed by Catholism during a time of religious turmoil throughout Europe. Had it not been forpro- Protestant groups like this we may have had massacres similar to France where Hugenots where mudered by the hundred nad driven out of the country. Having lit the blue touch paper and offended republican sensiblities I will now retire and wait for the invective to start.

  • Graduate,

    Sorry to dissapoint your ego, but it’s not even worth wasting our “invective” on such blatant, sectarian drivel…

  • graduate

    truth hurts don’t it Macswiney? Check out the history books

  • arthur

    ‘truth hurts don’t it Macswiney? Check out the history books’

    Any mention of the close links between loyalist paramilitaries & the orange order in them there history books !!

  • nmc

    From a quick trawl on the internet I’ve come up with several pages, all of which seem to suggest that you are talking shit graduate. Here’s one:

    http://www.answers.com/topic/orange-institution

    which tells us that the OO was formed in Armagh in 1795 after a battle between the peep o day boys and the catholic defenders. Their primary objective was opposition to the Society of United Irishmen.

    Try wikipedia, (says more or less the same thing), what history books do you read graduate? The History of the Orange Order by the Orange Order maybe?

  • Mauds gone

    Graduate –

    Whether the orange order was set up with the best of intentions or not, the problems lie in the fact that it is being underestimated by a sectarian element within the organisation. I have no doubt that there are genuine members, but you have to acknowledge the hard line loyalist mob influence. It is they whose image is burned onto the brains of the Catholic community. If some people care so much for the orange order and wish to preserve it as a cultural identity, they must recognise that the image should be improved from within. As I said earlier it would be lovely if all the people of the island could share a positive statement of tolerance.

  • Blue Hammer

    “Why does this walking past lie get repeated when we can easily access satellite imagery?

    The parade would go through the estate

    Bloody spoofers”

    On that basis they couldn’t walk up the M1, as it “goes through” the lower falls. Have a bit of wit – the Garvaghy Raod is a main arterial route out of Portadown, with no houses fronting onto it. The whole thing is just rabble-rousing (or REBEL-rousing) by SF to claim some more territory and wind up the prods.

    Spoofers my arse.

  • arthur

    “The whole thing is just rabble-rousing”

    Yes i know, we all watched the pictures of thousands of loyalists & orange order members bombing and shootong police lines over a number of years.

    Billy Wright and Johnny Adair were rabble-rousers alright !

  • Frank Sinistra

    “the Garvaghy Raod is a main arterial route out of Portadown, with no houses fronting onto it”

    Apart from the houses that front onto the road.

    And the fact the A4 not the Garvaghy Road is the main route out of Portadown.

    Fibbers and spoofers.

  • Cruimh

    Billy – it’s a fact – The Garvaghy estate was mixed before the prod residents were ‘persuaded’
    to leave.

    nmc- Graduate is right – the Orange was founded in a response to Catholic aggression.

  • Cruimh

    Thank you for proving my point Frank – the march goes past, not through.

  • arthur

    whatever happened to Harold Gracey’s caravan ??

  • páid

    To the best of my knowledge, the Tricolour is the only national flag which incorporates the Order’s colour.

    They should fly the Tricolour and the Union Flag at the head of the parade and march down the Garvaghy Road.

  • Frank Sinistra

    Cruimh,

    You can twist all you want. I’ve shown:

    Houses face onto the road.

    The road passes through the estate

    The claim this is the main arterial route out is a lie as it the A4 not Garvaghy road.

    That’s three lies nailed.

    Care to provide proof for your other claim that families were intimidated out, burden of proof is on you because you’ve had your three strikes on this topic already.

    Three claims, three spoofs. Go on prove your last.

  • Kevster

    Some Orange parades exist for the marking of territory. I say this because countless times I’ve heard it said “Where Orangemen cannot walk, Protestants cannot live”. Were I an Orangeman, I think I would concentrate on ensuring no more loyalist paramilitaries were enshrined on banners, that the drinking and disreputable behaviour was squelched and the speeches at the field didn’t include warnings of liquidation of the enemy.

  • grb

    Could someone please help me,i seem to be a bit confused. I live in a house that is facing onto the Garvaghy Rd,about 10 feet from the road itself. This is where im confused by certain messages here that no houses face onto the road,have i been dreaming this for 35 years,am i hallucinating….please help.
    As an ordinary citizen of the Garvaghy Rd this subject isnt really important anymore,it is to us,a dead duck.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Cruimh/Madradin Ruad

    Your patter is like watter! You have been peddling this dis-information for years, is it a numbers game? You know, get made to look like a loony but you may just reel one person in each time. It sure worked on a fascist web LOL, you have a great student. Pity he get’s a bit mixed up.

    We can talk about compromise and how some of these old buffers actually believe the propaganda of their lodge. The basic premise is that, as Cathy C correctly points out, this is a hate march! It is only by constantly ignoring this that we wonder why they (the OO) won’t be reasonable in terms of talks etc.

    It is the elephant in the room folks.

  • Cruimh

    Frank – The picture to which you linked made my point – the road goes past rather than through the estate.

    The Garvaghy development started out as a mixed project – and the protestants were driven out by those nice republicans.

  • lib2016

    ‘As an ordinary resident of the Garvaghy Road……this subject is a dead duck’

    ….but not ‘duck a l’orange’, I presume. 😉

  • Mauds gone

    lib2016
    That was a quackin’ post!

  • grb

    That joke was a bit lame……

    Garvaghy Rd could well have been a mixed area at one stage. The reason why my family and hundreds of other cathlolic families ended up there was because of “loyalist” intimidation. We lived in the Corcrain estate until we were burnt out. Care to elaborate Cruimh?

  • Cruimh

    Ah, right grb – it’s all the fault of the prods who were intimidated out of the Garvaghy.
    Typical.

  • tommy

    “Ah, right grb – it’s all the fault of the prods who were intimidated out of the Garvaghy.
    Typical.”

    davros

    you are becoming very tiring

  • grb

    Cruimh,can you please point out where i happened to mention it was the fault of the prods?
    I for one dont doubt for a second that protestant people were intimadated out of the Garvaghy Rd,im not that blinkered. I hope to god those days are over and people can sleep safe in their beds at night,but this insistence by the O.O to march down the Garvaghy Rd,is it worth it??

  • Sean

    GRB

    Shhhh you are interupting his persecution complex

    I mean hes been years building up a false sense of being over run by the nasty catholics and there you go trying to ruin it all by being reasonable. Crikey at this rate he might have to admit that the oo isnt all lightness of being