Another one down

Today’s Ulster Star reports that Cecil Calvert, a veteran DUP Councillor, says he has quit the DUP as it “is no longer the party he has represented on Lisburn Council for the past 22 years”. Interestingly he added, “Dr Paisley stated he could do no other as Plan B was much worse than anticipated. Yet in 40 years I never heard Dr Paisley retreat from a threat real or imagined (my emphasis)”.

Hard to disagree with any of that really.

  • StarHound

    If it’s ‘Hard to disagree with any of that really’, then why bother to post it?

  • northsider

    THE CECIL CALVERT!!! I can’t believe it, just cannot believe it. This is one loss the DUP WILL NOT be able to recover from.

    *who is he?*

  • Elvis

    No surprise here Cecil is a nutter of the first order. The phrase ‘as thick as two short blanks’ could have been written about him.

    More seriously think Papa Doc will have to lay of the comedy routine with McGuinness or more stomachs will be turned.

    Roll on a quiet Assembly Recess and a hardline speech on the 12th to sooth DUP nerves

  • Cruimh

    It will be fun if Tony B does announce his intention to convert before the 12th !

  • foreign correspondent

    What´s the Ulster Star?
    Who is Cecil Calvert?
    Would Michael Shilliday prefer another forty years of the same old you-know-what or does he have his own workable Plan B?
    Questions, questions…

  • Interested

    Just how will the DUP be able to survive once all the nutters have left?

    This is definitely an unmitigated disaster which can only serve to make the DUP more electable!

  • lisburn

    Isn’t it funny that “the party Cecil Calvert represented in Lisburn for 22 years” didn’t get too many votes for the vast majority of that time.

    Its only in recent times when they have started to become a little more sensible that people have voted for them. Of course people like Calvert completely miss that fact and believe that the masses have only seen the light now and come round to the taliban views expressed by nutters like himself.

  • pith

    “Just how will the DUP be able to survive once all the nutters have left?”

    A question which answers itself.

  • pith

    “Would Michael Shilliday prefer another forty years of the same old you-know-what or does he have his own workable Plan B?”

    Yes but why didn’t Paisley say 40 years ago that his hate campaign had a time limit?

  • Ginfizz

    Michael Shilliday’s posts seem only to consist of anti-DUP stuff. Is he so devoid of anything positive to say about his own party?

  • curious

    Michael,

    Another Duper jumped, How many DUP politicans have resigned now since the DUP agreed to powersharing with SF at Stormont.

    They need to lose a few more councillors in Lisburn before the DUP lose their majority here. Lisburn and Castlereagh are DUP majority strongholds.

    Anyone know the name of the new Mayor (or is it Lord mayor) who succeded Trevor Lunn (Alliance) in Lisburn?

  • insider

    From what I hear this was one of the most ‘principled’ decisions that any Councillor ever takes.

    “I was passed over for some particular trinket/chairmanship and now I’m going to resign in a huff – but dress it up as opposition to party policy.”

    He wanted to be Mayor this year but was passed over by his Party for the position. Its as plain and as simple as that. This is despite the fact that he’s been mayor before, but when he didn’t get it this time he threw his rattle out of the pram promptly.

    Childish – just as Sillyboy’s post is.

  • Ginfizz

    curious

    The fact that people like Cecil Clavert are ju,ping off whilst people like Robert Smith in Ards are jumping on, should be taken as a positive sign for the DUP. They are now the centre-ground of Unionism.

  • Ginfizz

    Insider

    Ahhh. It all becomes clear now.

  • “Michael Shilliday’s posts seem only to consist of anti-DUP stuff. Is he so devoid of anything positive to say about his own party?

    Posted by Ginfizz on Jun 22, 2007 @ 12:06 PM”

    Ah the delicious irony of the DUPes harping on about negativity.

  • curious

    Good point Ginfizz,

    I wonder if all these right winger supporters of Alister who left the DUP will in turn rejoin the UUP and help it to go to the right of the DUP?

  • Cruimh

    “Childish – just as Sillyboy’s post is.”

    Man? Ball ?

  • Ginfizz

    Ziznivy

    Not particularly. I don’t mind negaitivity and in fact enjoy a good scrap on here as much as the next person, but I just don’t see what purpose posts such as this serve.

  • insider

    Ginfizz
    Anytime a Councillor resigns within about a week either side of a Council AGM the alarm bells should automatically start ringing.

    No principle is quite so sacred as the Mayoral chain it would seem.

  • curious

    Ginfizz, it must serve something otherwise why have you sent four posts to the thread?

  • Ginfizz

    curious

    Doubtful. Firstly, Reg et al would be mad to let them in. Secondly, they hate the UP almost as much as they hate Sinn Fein.

  • Michael Shilliday

    Calvert was Mayor 2 or 3 years ago, it seems unlikley that he jumped because he didn’t get it this year. Jim Tinsley (DUP) is the new Mayor, Ronnie Crawford (UUP) is Deputy.

    And the DUP do not have a majority on Lisburn City Council and never have, I don’t think they have in Castlereagh. They are the largest party, but that is different.

  • Ginfizz

    Michael

    The DUP has 13 out of 23 seats in Castlereagh.

  • Counterbalance

    “The fact that people like Cecil Clavert are jumping off whilst people like Robert Smith in Ards are jumping on, should be taken as a positive sign for the DUP. They are now the centre-ground of Unionism.”

    I take it you mean Cllr Robert Gibson in Ards?

    That was more than counterbalanced when George Ennis who was a Cllr and an MLA and Terry Williams resigned from the party. Although I should point out similar to this Lisburn councillor there were other factors in play here such as the fact Ennis had been deselected as a candidate for the Assembly election possibly because of a falling out with Irish Robinson….but then you wouldn’t know all the factors in play with these thinga.

  • curious

    Ginfizz, Reg might be mad but he is not stupid. All those Dupers who jumped the DUP might come onboard the UUP since McNarry and co rejected the Irish language proposals at Stormont. Likewise now Big Ian is in bed with Mg and I hear rumours Ian junior is going on a cycling holiday with that SF woman from Castlebar who speaks gaelic better than Gerry, there is no challenges coming from the DUP against this outreach to unionists from SF.

    The only party to be holding the fort and flying the flag for the Union at present is the UUP.

  • Ziznivy

    “Not particularly. I don’t mind negaitivity and in fact enjoy a good scrap on here as much as the next person, but I just don’t see what purpose posts such as this serve.”

    It reiterates the dissention those who object to Paisley’s hypocrisy feel within the party.

    It highlights the continuing fissures in the party.

    The DUP have actually got away with only nominal criticism given the magnitude of their lies, hypocrisy and the blatant ideological differences in the party.

    More is needed I say.

  • insider

    Michael
    You make my point for me. He was Mayor 2 or 3 years ago – but demanded it again this year.

    He was overruled and he threw a hissy fit and walked.

  • Michael Shilliday

    I don’t know if that is the case or not, it might very well be. I doubt it though.

  • foreign correspondent

    ´´I hear rumours Ian junior is going on a cycling holiday with that SF woman from Castlebar who speaks gaelic better than Gerry.´´

    I can´t see that happening somehow but it´s a strangely pleasing idea. Maybe all the Sinners and Dupers could go on holiday together to further cement relations.
    For example Ian Senior could head off to Gweedore with Gerry and Martin for a few days relaxation and the odd quiet pint in Tigh Hiudai 🙂

  • Cruimh

    you guys obviously watched folks on the hill!

  • What´s the Ulster Star?

    The local newspaper in Lisburn.

    Who is Cecil Calvert?

    A spectacularly mad councillor, even by DUP standards, in Lisburn, and failed Assembly candidate (1998). Friendly with the even more nutty Rev’d William Beattie.

    the fact Ennis had been deselected as a candidate for the Assembly election possibly because of a falling out with Irish Robinson….but then you wouldn’t know all the factors in play with these thinga.

    Ennis was deselected because he has a brain and isn’t a robot who does what Iris tells him too. He then left the party and claimed he was opposed to the deal because it sounds better than “I have no hope of earning this sort of money elsewhere and I really, really, want to get my own back at the Robinsons”. Or at least that was my understanding of it all.

  • Morso

    “Ennis was deselected because he has a brain and isn’t a robot who does what Iris tells him too”

    Ohh, thats quite a nasty little dig at Jim Shannon, Simon Hamilton, Michelle McIlveen….and basically every DUP councillor in Ards and Castlereagh!

  • Ginfizz

    Sorry. Yes Councillor Robert Gibson. I was mixing him up with Tom Smith, the prolific letter writer.

  • Ignited

    Calling a person who has served their constituents for 22 years a nutter is quite disgusting. Whatever his real reasons for leaving the DUP he has served them during their dark years where they were the minority unionists attacking the UUP for their failings.

    The DUP may have become more electable in the past decade due to figures like Robinson, Dodds, Donalson and Foster coming to front the DUP machine. But it is people like Cecil Calvert, Jack McKee etc who were the backbone of the DUP for the last 30 years and should be treated with respect when they cannot stay within their party due to its acceptance of the Belfast Agreement.

  • Ginfizz

    Ignited

    It has nothing to do with policy and everything to do with a bruised ego.

  • Calling a person who has served their constituents for 22 years a nutter is quite disgusting.

    But true.

    Ohh, thats quite a nasty little dig at Jim Shannon, Simon Hamilton, Michelle McIlveen….and basically every DUP councillor in Ards and Castlereagh!

    How naughty of me!

  • Ginfizz

    Sammy

    Sorry, but Simon Hamilton, Michelle McIlveen and Jim Shannon would have Kieran McCarthy on toast for breakfast any day of the week!

  • unimpartial observer

    I think the drip-by-drip loss of these nutcases is doing the DUP no harm at all as it does reinforce their shift into the mainstream of unionist opinion.

    Its also happening at a time when the hard-right buffoons driving the UUP at Stormont have moved sharply off the centre-ground and seem intent on driving that great party into the 2% electoral wasteland of appealing to McCartney-ites and assorted Cubitts.

    So interesting times ahead – particularly if the UUPs centre-ground “soft Prod” base starts looking for alternatives – after all 25000 of them departed for Aliiance and the Greens at the last election, and the way things are going even the DUP might soon look like a more reasonable alternative than McNarry’s UUP.

  • Sorry, but Simon Hamilton, Michelle McIlveen and Jim Shannon would have Kieran McCarthy on toast for breakfast any day of the week!

    Methinks you are protesting too much, ginfizz.

    Have you heard Simon Hamilton speaking in the Assembly? This is supposed to be the new, young, bright, rising star of the DUP and he can’t even read his pre-prepared speech out properly. And Michelle hasn’t exactly a model of girl-power, taking the world by the scruff of the neck, in her first few months in the Assembly either.

    OK, fair enough, they’re new kids on the block and they might develop but don’t pretend they aren’t there because Iris thought they’d do what she told them to.

  • curious

    unimpartial observer,

    It will not matter what way Unionists go right, left or center, swop from one Unionist party to another or go independent the one thing Unionists all have in common is:

    A TOTAL ABHORRENCE TO A SINN FEIN UNITED IRELAND.

    Even the garden center prod who has not voted for years because under direct rule they felt safe, will come out in droves to vote in a referendum against going into a SF UI.

  • BonarLaw

    “people like Cecil Calvert, Jack McKee”

    FFS! If these are such great public servants they will be poached by another party keen to have proven tallent on board. If they are embarassing throwbacks to all that was wrong with unionism they will be left to their own devices. Time will tell.

    Unimpartial observer

    there is nothing right wing about the UUP- not even their buffoonery 🙂

  • Ginfizz

    Sammy

    Come off it! People like Simon Hamilton and Michelle McIlveen are vastly superior in intellect and ability to the standard of APNI representation in Strangford. Your are deluding yourself if you believe otherwise.

  • observer

    The fact that people like Cecil Clavert are ju,ping off whilst people like Robert Smith in Ards are jumping on, …..
    Posted by Ginfizz on Jun 22, 2007 @ 12:12 PM

    who is robert smith?

  • Ginfizz

    read above. I made a mistake – I meant Robert Gibson – a Councillor in Ards.

  • Wasn’t he in The Cure?

  • observer

    sorry gin… didnt see that,just as an ards person meself you had me confused…(no jokes please)

  • People like Simon Hamilton

    Seriously, have you heard him speak in the Assembly… oh, and were you in his class at QUB? He isn’t anything like as bright as the DUP make out.

    What ever happened to Timmy ‘Teddy Ruxpin’ Johnston, by far the ablest of that Queens’ Unionist crowd who defected to the DUP en masse?

  • Pureblue

    “What ever happened to Timmy ‘Teddy Ruxpin’ Johnston, by far the ablest of that Queens’ Unionist crowd who defected to the DUP en masse?”

    He is now DUP spin doctor in chief, he has done very well behind the scenes, no sign of him going for elected office yet but he is still young although perhaps he is happier working behind the scenes as some are.

  • Mummys Boy

    The fact that people like Cecil Clavert are ju,ping off whilst people like Robert Smith in Ards are jumping on, should be taken as a positive sign for the DUP. They are now the centre-ground of Unionism.
    Posted by Ginfizz on Jun 22, 2007 @ 12:12 PM

    How do you figure that one councillor leaving and one joining now makes the DUP centre-ground for unionism?

  • insider

    Sammy
    “Ennis was deselected because he has a brain and isn’t a robot who does what Iris tells him too.”

    Sammy, you may claim to know a lot of things, but sometimes you just dont….

    Ennis was deselected because he is terminally lazy – he closed his office down about 6 months before the Assembly election (he wrongly thought everything was going into suspension so didnt see the point of working on) and generally because he wasn’t much cop.

    Stick to the Alliance Party – easier to work out whats going on there. I agree with earlier comment – without playing the man, it wouldnt take a superstar to outshine Kieran McCarthy.

  • Ennis was deselected because he is terminally lazy – he closed his office down about 6 months before the Assembly election (he wrongly thought everything was going into suspension so didnt see the point of working on) and generally because he wasn’t much cop.

    That’s certainly an insider-ish view, insider.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Ginfizz:

    Come off it! People like Simon Hamilton and Michelle McIlveen are vastly superior in intellect and ability to the standard of APNI representation in Strangford. Your are deluding yourself if you believe otherwise.

    Even with all my years as General Secretary of the CPSU, even I find it hard to think of a rebuttal to a diligent and expertly argued reposte like that. We’re brilliant and if you dare to ask for proof, you’re deluded ? Does this sort of argument work well on the doorsteps for the DUP ?

  • Cruimh

    “Does this sort of argument work well on the doorsteps for the DUP ? ”

    Obviously DUP arguments work a lot better than APNI arguments on doorsteps Comrade – Hell’s teeth – even UUP and SDLP arguments work better LOL

  • Comrade Stalin

    Cruimh:

    Obviously DUP arguments work a lot better than APNI arguments on doorsteps Comrade – Hell’s teeth – even UUP and SDLP arguments work better LOL

    Remind me what those arguments are ?

  • Know what you’re talking about

    “People like Simon Hamilton…Seriously, have you heard him speak in the Assembly… oh, and were you in his class at QUB? He isn’t anything like as bright as the DUP make out.”

    Sammy, only someone who doesn’t know Simon Hamilton well would make that comment.

    “What ever happened to Timmy ‘Teddy Ruxpin’ Johnston, by far the ablest of that Queens’ Unionist crowd who defected to the DUP en masse?”

    He is now special adviser to the FM (which again shows a fairly shocking level of ignorance in the political field for you Sammy). He is without doubt a uniquely gifted individual and was head of one of the strongest crops of unionist young people ever to go through Queen’s. Certainly they produced some of the strongest results there for years (which current Queen’s unionists of all descriptions can’t come close to). I don’t know what happened to all of them (which would be interesting to know) but I know that a number of them are in key positions within the DUP now and are probably the NI politics version of the Brat Pack who will feature prominently in the future of Northern Ireland.

  • mojo

    Whatever happened to Johnny McQuaid? (insert your own allegator joke at this point.)

  • Intelligence Insider

    I wonder if Michelle McIlveen will declare an interest if the Assembly ever get round to discussing fraudulent motor dealers who “clock” cars? I’m not sure if Michelle still manages her families used-car dealer business but it would be interesting to hear her comments on this. Anyone know which used-car dealer business in Ards it was that was convicted of clocking cars?????????

    Also be interesting to note how Iris, of the Rich Family Robinson, now views Robert Gibson. I’m sure her view hasn’t changed since she called for his resignation as Chairman of the local Education Board when he was a UUP member.

    Jim Shannon is probably the only half decent one out of a truly terrible lot, and it’s well known in Ards DUP circles how Iris and Jim view each other, or maybe prefer not to view each other! Everyone knows they hate the sight of each other and thats why their are two “wings” on the DUP side of the council, the pro-Virus wing and the pro-Jim Shannon wing.

  • Mummys Boy

    Ah, the political dirt is flying now, i love it
    So keep it coming, what about North Down or Castlereagh then

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    There would appear to be an opening for a party or organisation to harness right wing unionist opinion whether alleged nutters and/or able operators like Jim Allister.

  • nick p.

    more importantly given that GWB. has been seen sporting them…… are any of our MLAs wearing CROCs & do the colours they choose mean they are making a statement ?

  • kensei

    “It will not matter what way Unionists go right, left or center, swop from one Unionist party to another or go independent the one thing Unionists all have in common is:

    A TOTAL ABHORRENCE TO A SINN FEIN UNITED IRELAND.

    Even the garden center prod who has not voted for years because under direct rule they felt safe, will come out in droves to vote in a referendum against going into a SF UI. ”

    What is a “Sinn Fein” United Ireland? What are the alternative United Irelands?

    You do realise even if they kept all of their Northern support they would be, at best, about on par with Labour and way behind FF/FG?

  • curious

    ‘What is a “Sinn Fein” United Ireland?”

    kensel,
    A “Sinn Fein” United Ireland would be [i]’inherently hostile to Protestants[39], a characteristic unbecoming of a socialist party.'[/i] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_Féin

    “What are the alternative United Irelands?”

    One that’s only agreed by the majority of citizens of NI
    [i]’ In the Republic of Ireland the electorate voted upon the Nineteenth Amendment. This amendment both permitted the state to comply with the Belfast Agreement and provided for the removal of the ‘territorial claim’ contained in Articles 2 and 3.'[/i]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Agreement

  • Dewi

    “It will not matter what way Unionists go right, left or center, swop from one Unionist party to another or go independent the one thing Unionists all have in common is:

    A TOTAL ABHORRENCE TO A SINN FEIN UNITED IRELAND.”

    If that’s true it’s not really the greatest of philosphical cornerstones IMHO

  • CURIOUS

    “If that’s true it’s not really the greatest of philosphical cornerstones IMHO”

    Dewi, Then what about:

    A TOTAL ABHORRENCE TO GOING INTO A SINN FEIN UNITED IRELAND WHICH COST CITIZENS UNDER 65 YEARS €65 EVERY TIME THEY ATTENDED HOSPITAL?

  • Dewi

    Curious
    But would be OK with a Fianna Fail UI with a National Health Service a la UK ? I doubt it somehow !

  • curious

    I doubt it Dewi, the Rip -off republic may have a lower coporation tax and cheaper petrol but weigh that up against other taxes and higher costs there are no toll charges for crossing bridges or driving on motorways in NI.

    RTÉ television highlighting the cost of living and working in Ireland. It was presented by Eddie Hobbs and was broadcast on Mondays at 21:30 on RTÉ One during late August and early September 2005. Four programmes were aired in the series, each targeting a different area of the Irish economy:

    1. Groceries;
    2. Alcohol;
    3. Transport;
    4. Taxation.

    This happened in 2005 and the gap between rich and poor has widened in the past two years. I have friends in Dublin whose wives always travel up in the train to Belfast to do shopping for womens clothes etc etc. So living in NI is still cheaper all round compared to the ROI.

  • Dewi

    Your objection is economic then Curious – now that is curious as economic prosperity is probably No 1 selling point for unification. Republic is more expensive because of prosperity cf Switzerland……

  • curious

    [i]’Your objection is economic then Curious'[/i]

    Yes, but that would be a second objection. Number one objection would still be Unionist and Protestant fear off discrimation against them in a United Ireland.

  • DC

    “Yes, but that would be a second objection. Number one objection would still be Unionist and Protestant fear off discrimation against them in a United Ireland.”

    How about a federal Ireland based on the Northern partition boundary. Do you reckon that would ever be a conceivable half-way.

    Anyway, going back to the title, the problem with Paisley and people resigning, and it has been documented before is the fact that, he has been on the political scene throughout the Troubles advocating a fixed sense of constitutional and political direction while leader of the Protestant Unionist Party and DUP. He is still leader so you would reckon he would still stand by the rhetoric which he pumped out to the Protestants as guiding principles of his party which meant the salt of the earth to him.

  • DC

    “There would appear to be an opening for a party or organisation to harness right wing unionist opinion whether alleged nutters and/or able operators like Jim Allister.”

    Oh pleeeeease, can anyone put up with more in-Denial Unionist Politicians.

    Old Paisley is working instutions brought in not via the Multi-Party Negotiations but *actually* via a British-Irish Treaty annexed to the GFA negotiations (which btw he walked away from as being utterly out of sync with his principles).

    And remember was not the Anglo-Irish-Agreement a similar British Irish Treaty, which saw big Ian so driven that he had to take to a podium at City Hall to work up a lather that foamed him at the mouth – oh yes it was!

    Come in the Paisleys and your DUP party – your goose is cooked!

  • Slurs from the DUP

    Lisburn said

    “Its only in recent times when they have started to become a little more sensible that people have voted for them. Of course people like Calvert completely miss that fact and believe that the masses have only seen the light now and come round to the taliban views expressed by nutters like himself.”

    Did a certain Papa Doc not feed him those views? It’s a bit hypocritical to blame a longstanding DUP member for trying to see through DUP ideals, which he believed as true because they use to come from Ian Paisley’s gob.

  • kensei

    “A “Sinn Fein” United Ireland would be ‘inherently hostile to Protestants[39], a characteristic unbecoming of a socialist party.’”

    That’s really not what they are epousing these days. Also, do you really think FF, FG, Labour, the UUP, the DUP, the Greens, the PDs would stand by and just let it happen?

    You are aware that in a much realer sense you are live in a SF Northern Ireland?

    “One that’s only agreed by the majority of citizens of NI”

    That what everyone is signed up to. Even SF. Wait a minute. Have I been accidentally transported back to 1955 again?

  • kensei

    “I doubt it Dewi, the Rip -off republic may have a lower coporation tax and cheaper petrol but weigh that up against other taxes and higher costs there are no toll charges for crossing bridges or driving on motorways in NI.”

    How many times a year do you drive the motorway? Is this really a large cost? You’ll see congestion charging come in regardless in the medium to lonmg term. There are very few local taxes in the South. And inequality and overcharging is prevalent in the UK as much as Ireland. To be honest, from a personal taxation point of view, it’s all a bit swings and roundabouts.

  • curious

    Come on kensel, why would `RTE have a show about a rip-off republic if it never existed?

    http://www.rte.ie/arts/2005/0818/hobbse.html

  • Comrade Stalin

    ’What is a “Sinn Fein” United Ireland?”

    Something which does not exist. The vast majority of people right across this island view Sinn Fein as repugnant, a fact borne out in the recent elections in the Republic. If a united Ireland ever comes, Sinn Fein will be relegated to the bottom of the league. It’s ironic that a party which opposes partition is dependent on it to sustain it’s existence.

  • GavBelfast

    Edwin Poots was on Radio Ulster today saying that, since Robin Stirling left the DUP, he doesn’t have to cringe any more when he hears Robin on the radio.

    Perhaps it’s the rest of us who cringe now, Edwin!

  • McKelvey

    Just WTF is a “Sinn Fein” united Ireland? Does this mean that unionists are just dying to welcome a “Fine Gael” united Ireland?

  • curious

    No maybe the Unionists might welcome a “Progressive Democrat”, or “Green party” United Ireland instead of a “Sinn Fein” one

  • He is without doubt a uniquely gifted individual and was head of one of the strongest crops of unionist young people ever to go through Queen’s.

    Tee hee. Self publicity is no publicity.

    I know them all mucker, I was at Queen’s at the same time. In the same classes as a few of them.

  • curious

    “How about a federal Ireland based on the Northern partition boundary. Do you reckon that would ever be a conceivable half-way.”

    Would SF go for that? And what would they think if Michael McDowell was to be chosen by Bertie as permaent Secretary of State for NI.

  • 4legsgood2legsbad

    Indeed Sammy, do you ever think that alot of these politicos only stay in politics because they wouldn’t be able to get a job anywhere else. I mean have these wonderboys ever held down a normal job?

    So really in terms of our politicians, we have the rejects of the workforce…..

  • Timmy was a very talented guy, it’s not just anyone who not only looked like Timmy Mallet but could also make him look intelligent.

  • 4legsgood2legsbad

    The word talent is very vague, its frequently used to described young politico’s but what exactly does it mean? Talent at what? Turning up to things? Reading hansard every day? Hanging around Stormont until someone take pity and gives them a job?

    (btw, I agree Johnston is very capable and has done well because he deserves to but there are some weaker links)

  • DC

    “Reading hansard every day?”

    Yes in part I think that fits the bill of what it means to be talented here in NI.

    But I think it helps if you are a family member or friend of someone who is in politics because the person gets agitated a lot and needs to vent off in public due to a perverse twist in their make-up.

    I think you also have to severely crticial of everyone else’s ability and an utterly non-team player because the trick is to back stab and climb over the heap as you get to the top.

    Obviously if you’re good at English, you can manipulate and get there quicker, so I suppose having been to Queens is a bonus.

  • Pounder

    “Just WTF is a “Sinn Fein” united Ireland? Does this mean that unionists are just dying to welcome a “Fine Gael” united Ireland?
    Posted by McKelvey on Jun 23, 2007 @ 08:26 PM”

    Any Unionist with an eye on the big picture knows that a UI is inevitable sooner or later. What they need to to make sure that it’s a UI that a wee bit more favourable to them than the shinners would like.

    Paisley has seen this and decided to become more moderate in public. If he pulled his Ulster Says No shit any longer Bertie and whoever succeeds him will decide “fuck him and fuck the high horse he rode into town on” this way if Unionists become more agreeable to work with Paisley and his successors stand a good chance of holding on to their political power. And thats the goal in politics.

  • lib2016

    There are two main powerblocks in the South – one is Fianna Fail and the other is centred around Fine Gael. When a UI comes, and it is coming fast, Sinn Fein or at least a sizable section of Northern Sinn Fein will have no problem in backing Fianna Fail.

    It would seem to me (a hard left republican and Sinn Fein supporter) that in order for all-Ireland politics to work democratically the post-unionist community will have to find a home in Fine Gael. After all some members of Reform (a spectactularly loud but ultimately unsuccessful unionist group based in Trinity university) seem to have already been absorbed into Fine Gael in Dublin.

    Personally I believe that the DUP is led by opportunists and pragmatists. The UUP believed that they had a right to rule, a belief which wasn’t shared by their own electorate. That same unionist electorate knows that change is coming and has elected a party of dealmakers. Quite right too.

  • curious

    [i]’Any Unionist with an eye on the big picture knows that a UI is inevitable sooner or later. What they need to to make sure that it’s a UI that a wee bit more favourable to them than the shinners would like.'[/i]

    B@llocks, more republican false propaganda. If PIRA could not force Unionists into a UI by violence over the last 35 years do you think they will just accept a UI *inevitable sooner or later*.

    Not fecking likely, the Unionists are not defeated either like the PIRA poster says *UNDEFEATED ARMY* in this article.

    Provisional IRA campaign 1969–1997
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_IRA_campaign_1969–1997

  • DC

    “Personally I believe that the DUP is led by opportunists and pragmatists. The UUP believed that they had a right to rule, a belief which wasn’t shared by their own electorate. That same unionist electorate knows that change is coming and has elected a party of dealmakers. Quite right too.”

    Well that just great, it’s a shame they didn’t do much dealing around the 80’s and 90’s isn’t it.

    But UUP arrogance and elitism cost it dearly; however, the electorate know that devolution in itself brought in new politics, I am unsure whether the DUP will be very successful in operating institutions which operate as per an EU integrationist approach over albeit small policy remits.

    The paradox is namely that they are operating a British-Irish system, even though there is little in the way of constitutional change with the UK, the ability, however, to have policy formed in Northern Ireland by Irish government thought is very real; clearly the days of Unionism are numbered regardless of how pragamatic they want to be because it is in clear contrast to its ideology.

    This is what Paisley harpooned Trimble for doing only thus to see himself take up the reins of something foundationally similar.

    Call it progress or hypocrisy or more worryingly call it neither and claim it to be a clear show of manipulation of political opinion in a 30 year pursuit for power for power’s sake.

    Power in his church, power in politics and seemingly power over the people.

  • lib2016

    Unionists are sharing power at Stormont because that is the only way they can ever exercise power. The day is fast approaching when they will realise that they can equally share power at government level, but it will have to be in a Dublin government.

    The UK is edging towards a breakup and in any case no foreseeable British government would ever face the embarrassment of accepting Orange support inside government. Even the Major government didn’t go that far and they were desperate, and contained Orange sympathisers like Cranbourne.

  • Turgon

    Comming back to Cecil Calvert’s comments about Paisley and Plan B

    I the same problem as Calvert with it.

    Paisley has never allowed himself to be intimidated by dark threats. If it is now accepted that there will be no change in status without the consent of the majority then so what if devolution fails. Of course yes there would have been an attempt to threaten joint authority which shows that the consent principle is not as watertight as imagined as lip service could be payed to it whilst trying to produce joint authority.

    In reality I am unsure whether this joint authority would have given Dublin as much control as was feared / hoped. Whilst I am sure they would have had joint meetings etc I suspect the control would still have been from Whitehall, Hillsbourgh etc.

    Secondly Hain would clearly have been dumped pretty quickly and Brown has less interest in driving forward much here currently. He might even have been quite happy to start talks again in a few years and have a “peace process” as his legacy.

    If the alternative to the current agreement is joint authority sliding to a united Ireland surely SF will bring the process down as quickly as possible.

    Overall I think the DUP gained some useful things from the last round of talks but they were movatiated by the lust for power their other “explanations” just do not hold water.

    On a seperate issue regarding spin doctors. What ever happened to Stephen King surely the most useless spin doctor / strategist ever.

  • DJK

    From memory, Cecil Calvert, (like myself), is or was a resident of the small village of Stoneyford. He could well be lumped with another well know personality from the area in terms of intellect.

  • kensei

    “Come on kensel, why would `RTE have a show about a rip-off republic if it never existed?

    http://www.rte.ie/arts/2005/0818/hobbse.html

    How many programs have the BBC shown about “Rip off Britain”? How many articles run in news papers? Dublin is expensive, but if we are talking about the cost of goods and services, overall I doubt it would be that much off the UK in either direction. As with personal taxation, there are a large amount of swings and roundabouts.

    Per capita GDP is much higher South than North, so those bites should be coming out of a bigger pie.

  • curious

    ‘How many programs have the BBC shown about “Rip off Britain”?

    Do you mean BBC programmes about all those immigrants who come to live in the UK to “Rip Off Britian”?

  • lib2016

    “all those immigrants who come to live in the UK to “Rip Off Britain”

    Without those immigrants every economy in Europe would be in deep trouble and every country would soon become depopulated. For shame – and from a member of the community of spongers too!