DUP and Ulster’s gay electorate…

Some time ago, I suggested to someone in the DUP that the Paul Berry incident was a wake up call regarding the party’s relationship with Northern Ireland’s gay community. There is a fair amount of animosity out there for that party almost to the exclusion of all others. In a polity where every vote should count in the narrowing gap between unionist and nationalist voter pools*, it makes sense not to give the wider population good reason not to vote for you, even if the pink vote is a lost cause for the foreseeable future. If Ian Paisley Junior thought his remarks would shore up his party’s fundamentalist base, he may be regretting it now. Barry White captures his political dilemma:

* as opposed to presumed populations.

…if you’re brought up to believe that homosexuality, bisexuality or gender-changing are against Bible teaching then you’re going to have trouble with the law. Either you compromise your religious beliefs and go with the flow, or say you can’t and resign from office.

What you can’t do is to express your personal opinion in an interview and then defend it when in office, knowing it is in conflict with your duties as a defender of homosexuals’ human rights. You’ve opened up a credibility gap that will occur again and again.

One of the kingpins of the DUP’s success has been its capacity to distinguish between private conscience and public duty. Despite references to locking park swings on Sundays, it is a long time since any DUP council proposed such any such theologically based policy. It would serve the party well, to find a way of moving on. And a way to mend some badly broken fences.

,

  • Oilibhear Chromaill

    I wonder is there a ‘theological basis’ to the opposition of some of the DUP to the Irish Language Act. I would have thought there was something Pentecostal about such an Act, speaking in tongues and all that.

  • Mick Fealty

    They’ve hardly been ‘love bombed’ into it though, have they Oili? [Nips out the door, hoping thread vaguely gets back on track in his absence]

  • JG

    Oilibhear they appear to have mistaken glossolalia for coprolalia?

  • Sam Hanna

    Have a bit of wit – the so-called “gay” community is marginal in N.Ireland.

    Certainly, it is tiny compared to the numbers of Evangelical Christians who are repulsed by their unnatural behaviour.

    You could spin Barry White’s argument another way and say why do SF/SDLP not pitch for votes among Christians by taking a stronger anti-sodomite stance?

    This whole escapade delineates once again the anti-Christian bias in the media. Not a single national newspaper columnist stands up for the majority opinion in NI that sodomy is wrong and repulsive!

  • gg

    Sam Hanna

    “anti-sodomite”

    What exactly is the basis of your fascination with this particular act? Does it result from some essentialist, rather confused notion where you think that it’s all that gay people do? Can you be specific? Also, what about male-female sodomy, or non-penetrative sexual acts? What is the Sam Hanna sexual credo?

    “majority opinion in NI that sodomy is wrong and repulsive!”

    Aren’t you American or something?

  • Have a bit of wit – the so-called “gay” community is marginal in N.Ireland.

    Certainly, it is tiny compared to the numbers of Evangelical Christians who are repulsed by their unnatural behaviour.

    Sam is probably right as far as potential DUP voters go, if not the rest of society.

    As for his obsession with you-know-what, it’s probably because he really enjoys it, but feels sort of guilty about it.

  • Paisley is a total hypocrite. How can he criticise sodomy and fund it at the same time?

  • Ginfizz

    Hanson

    Here’s an idea – because he’s bound to by the law, you know Section 75, which prohibits discrimination.

    I think Mick has a point – I never ever see the day when the DUP will pursue the so-called “pink vote”, but it would be possible with a bit more temperate langauge to assuage the active loathing that a lot og LGBT people would have toward the DUP which makes them actively come out and vote against them

  • Oilibhear Chromaill

    What are you suggesting Mick? Should Irish speakers offer Gaelic massages to DUPers? Is that ‘love bombing’?

    Given that the DUP and the UUP have equated the Irish language with ‘leprechaunism’ and ‘greening’ the province, I don’t think it’s the Irish language community who have to do the love bombing.

    There’s nothing wrong with a multicultural multicoloured society – though I prefer inter as a prefix myself. A bit of pink, and green, and orange, and maybe a little less of the red white and blue, and all other colours under the rainbow.

    Better that then the grey suits of unionism with it’s monochrome view of society.

  • Daithí

    The 6 counties should have gay education classes in schools available on an equal basis for all children, whether that be children from a Sinn Fein parent or a DUP parent.

    Equality for all!

    Children need to be taught that being gay is not a bad thing and they need to become aware of gay sex as well as heterosexual intercourse from a very early age

  • bpower

    “You could spin Barry White’s argument another way and say why do SF/SDLP not pitch for votes among Christians by taking a stronger anti-sodomite stance?”

    Because they realise that most people arnt obsessed with what other people do in their private lives. I think thats healthy.

    You probably think that I deserve to burn in hell for ever for such an opinion, but luckly for me there is no such place.

    “anti-Christian bias in the media”. The paranoid mindset on full display. Man, you right-wing authoritarians never change your tune , do you?

    I know I shouldnt argue with people like you, its like trying to explain that the world is round to an illiterate medieval peasant.

  • Daithí

    Little Doc would have been better keeping his mouth shut or at the very best told a wee white lie or something.

  • Mick Fealty

    SH,

    Taking myself slightly out of context, what I actually said was:

    “…the pink vote is a lost cause for the foreseeable future”.

  • Mick Fealty

    Oili,

    What I meant to say was, wrong thread buddy!

  • observer

    Children need to be taught that being gay is not a bad thing and they need to become aware of gay sex as well as heterosexual intercourse from a very early age
    Posted by Daithí o

    why? why should children be taught about sex at an early age?

    sex eduction in the UK hasnt prevented teen pregnacies but encouraged them.

    let kids have thier innocence for crying out loud

  • Ginfizz,
    If he is “repulsed” he should resign regardless of what section 75 says.

  • Should have been: If he is “repulsed” he should fight it and if he loses resign. Principle or politics.

  • Pól

    Is the corollary of all of this that SF is actually being quite smart by cosying up to every marginalised section.

    It may give them problems with some of their rural/traditional base and particular problems down south with pro immigration stance but might be a good strategy for the 6 counties.

  • George Michael

    I totally agree with Daithi. There’s nothing here but flesh and bone, there’s nothing more, nothing more, nothing mooreeeeeeee!!

  • Sam Hanna

    “Children need to be taught that being gay is not a bad thing and they need to become aware of gay sex as well as heterosexual intercourse from a very early age”

    We tried living in a society like yours – it was called Communist Russia. Why are all the pink fascists desperate to get everyone to accept them? We don’t and we never will just as we will not accept paedophiles and incest.

    Every parent should be free to educate their children the way they want without the state and Daithi and his mates forcing their agenda on them.

    Daithi – what gives you the right to force your “religious” pervese views on my children?

  • Oilibhear Chromaill

    A bit touchy, Mick, if I may say so.

    Of course, if you don’t see the link between the DUPers’ homophobia and its phobia of all things Irish and all things different to itself, then you’re losing the sight of the bigger picture.

    Slightly related to this is the story in Lá Nua last week in which proposals drafted by the former head of the Irish Museum of Modern Art, Declan McGonigal, now the head of Interface at the University of Ulster, proposed including 11th Night Bonfires and LO parades within the context of an ‘overarching public arts strategy’ They would be presented as ‘non threatening manifestations of identity’ – although that makes it obvious that he doesn’t pay too much heed to reports of paramilitary displays at such events.

    What this would mean, in effect, is the Minister for Culture, Arts and Leisure doling out grants to the Orange Order and the Young Loyalist Firestarters. It might sweeten the pill for him as he sees department funds go to the Pride Parade. (Now that’s what I call public art!).

  • kensei

    “We tried living in a society like yours – it was called Communist Russia. Why are all the pink fascists desperate to get everyone to accept them?”

    Fantastic. You can’t possibly be real, can you?

  • Fraggle

    Sam Hanna, your attention to the bible is sadly lacking. You seem to have missed the bit where God saved Lot and his family from the destruction of Soddom, only for him to father children to his two daughters in a cave.

    It seems the bible is against sodomy but FOR incest. That’s what you get I suppose when you imagine everyone to have been descended from a single breeding pair.

  • snakebrain

    I’m beginning to wonder if Sam Hanna’s actually one of these bots that can imitate human conversation, programmed with a limited range of words and views and sent out to infiltrate message boards where keywords like ‘gay’ and ‘progress’ come up, keeping the rest of us busy while his masters get up to who knows what.

    Probably gay orgies.

  • Animus

    Where is the conclusive proof that communist Russia promoted gay sex? I missed that one. Also, evidence has shown that those who take virginity pledges are quite likely to break them and to be ill-prepared for contraception or disease prevention.

    Sex education does not cause teen pregnancy.

    When even other unionists are desperate to show their disconnect IPjr , the DUP seem even more out of touch. Little Doc has achieved very little – hardcore hatemongers still support him (as they would have anyway), but everyone else wonders what the fuss is about, or worse, worries that NI politics looks to be populated by yokels and idiots.

    As a person who is confident in my sexuality and my religion, I have nothing to fear from gays and lesbians, nor from evangelical Christians. People’s sex lives are none of my business, nor is anyone’s religious views. What would it take for people like Sam to have that sort of confidence that meant he could support others, rather than seek out conflict?

  • Daithí

    “Daithi – what gives you the right to force your “religious” pervese views on my children?”

    Sam Hanna,

    Soon your children will be learning about a true hero of Ireland, Bobby Sands. His pain will be the laughter of your children. Unionists like you have to wake up in the 6 counties and accept other peoples rights in this part of Ireland, whether they be Irish Republicans or Homosexuals.

    The education begins with your children, so as not to breed a generation of Unionist, homophobic bigots again.

    An Ireland of equals

    Daithí

  • Maggot

    “His pain will be the laughter of your children.”

    what ?

    “a generation of Unionist, homophobic bigots again.”

    Rather extreme stereotyping there if you are saying that all Unionists are homophobic bigots and that only Unionists are homohobic bigots Daithí.

  • Mick Fealty

    Sorry Oili, I didn’t mean to come across as touchy, I’m just very busy today. I thought the topic itself was worth asking people to spend some time taking it seriously in its own right. Perhaps an open thread on the ILA might suffice?

  • Sam Hanna

    “Sam Hanna, your attention to the bible is sadly lacking. You seem to have missed the bit where God saved Lot and his family from the destruction of Soddom, only for him to father children to his two daughters in a cave.

    It seems the bible is against sodomy but FOR incest. That’s what you get I suppose when you imagine everyone to have been descended from a single breeding pair.”

    Where does it say the Bible approved of Lot’s incest? Have you got the Pink Paper Edition? It might be better if most of the commentators here actually read the Bible not give what they think or hope it says!

  • Sam Hanna

    “Soon your children will be learning about a true hero of Ireland, Bobby Sands. His pain will be the laughter of your children. Unionists like you have to wake up in the 6 counties and accept other peoples rights in this part of Ireland, whether they be Irish Republicans or Homosexuals.

    The education begins with your children, so as not to breed a generation of Unionist, homophobic bigots again.”

    Yes a child murdering scumbag like Bobby Sands would really be useful in teaching morals to our children. He could help out in the chemistry class making fertilizer bombs, the geography class as working out where all the Protestant folk travel to work in Kingsmills and attend worship at Darkley. I suspect the only use for Bobby “Slimmer of the Year 1981” would be in the Biology Class as a skeleton is always handy!

    Bobby is currently busy as he is in his 16th year in hell so he is probably unavailable. God takes a dim view of murderers according to teh Good Book and is not fooled by some “freedom fighting” malarky that the RA and Al Qaeda hide behind.

  • Fraggle

    Genesis 19, 30-

    Go read up.

    Entire cities wiped out because of a spot of bottomism and your god let Lot and his daughters get up to that sort of thing.

  • páid

    Sam Hanna,

    simple request.

    You state that Bobby Sands was a ‘child murdering scumbag’.

    So tell us the name(s) of the child(ren) he murdered.

  • observer

    Soon your children will be learning about a true hero of Ireland, Bobby Sands. His pain will be the laughter of your children. Unionists like you have to wake up in the 6 counties and accept other peoples rights in this part of Ireland, whether they be Irish Republicans or Homosexuals.

    _ sands was a mudering b*stard, pure and simple. He was caught on his way to kill protestants.
    This is the peron catholics and apprently homosexuals now worship.

  • observer

    we shouldnt be surprised that catholics worhsip the muderer sands, after all they indulge in incest and allow their priests to molest their children

  • the Emerald Pimpernel

    If he was just on his way then he never actually murdered anyone did he?

  • the Emerald Pimpernel

    Hey obobserver is sam hanna your straw man

  • observer

    f he was just on his way then he never actually murdered anyone did he?
    Posted by the Emerald Pimpernel on Jun 06, 2007 @ 07:25 PM

    any you know that because????

    god knows how many innocents died at his hands before he was caught.

    If only he hadnt killed himself earlier and saved so many people so much pain

    Q )What has a plank of wood and a Bobby Sands got in common?
    A )They both are thin and cannot move.

  • observer

    Im sure poor skinny bobby is turning in his grave at not being able to experience a Northern Ireland secure in the Union, with Sinn Fein ministers bowing the Knee to the RUC/PSNI, upholding british laws in a british parliament…. well done bobby look what you achieved lol

  • Jigglybits

    It’s fascinating that nobody has mentioned the Kincora scandal in all of these comments or made reference to the fact that Trimble’s parliamentary adviser, one Austen Morgan, was about as out as you can get – that’s not a criticism, just a comment, but it certainly did make Trimble a lot closer to Mandelson than might otherwise have been possible.

  • Prince Eoghan

    And Waco Dave makes up the intellectually challenged, boorish bigoted threesome…. Ooooops did I mention a threesome, *giggles* I didn’t mean to suggest that these naughty boys were doing anything perverted. Or do you only burn in hell if you admit it?