DUP calls on Sinn Fein to welcome Royals…

Hmmm… mutual winding up continues? This time the DUP calls on Sinn Fein to prove it’s unionist outreach programme is genuine by welcoming them to Northern Ireland. Martina Anderson’s reply:

“Sinn Féin has no problem with these visitors and they obviously mean a great deal to a section of the society here. However, Ian Paisley jnr would better spending his time reflecting on his failure to apologise for his outrageous attack on the gay and lesbian community. After all it is his job as a junior minister in the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister to protect and promote the rights of that community.”

Touché!

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  • Ginfizz

    What about protecting and promoting the rights of our Royal community. The smallest of minority groups I feel they deserve promotion (if that’s possible)

    ;-0

  • curious

    Martina Anderson’s reply:

    “Sinn Féin has no problem with these visitors and they obviously mean a great deal to a section of the society here. However, Ian Paisley jnr would better spending his time reflecting on his failure to apologise for his outrageous attack on the gay and lesbian community. After all it is his job as a junior minister in the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister to protect and promote the rights of that community.”

    So Ian Paisley’s remark about being repulsed by the sexual behaviour of gays and lesbians is worse than the murder of Lord Mountbatten the uncle of Prince Philip by the IRA.

    When is Sinn Fein & Martina Anderson going to apoligise for this dastardly act of murder against a member of the British Royal Family?

  • Pounder

    I’d make that 1-0 to Martina. Though neither side can honestly claim the moral high ground.

  • fair_deal

    That’s a no then.

    “Sinn Féin has no problem with these visitors”

    Really?

    “The people of this island owe nothing to Britain’s Royal family and developing a new relationship between the people of Ireland and Britain surely doesn’t require kow towing to a British monarch.”

    http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/13965

  • kensei

    “So Ian Paisley’s remark about being repulsed by the sexual behaviour of gays and lesbians is worse than the murder of Lord Mountbatten the uncle of Prince Philip by the IRA.”

    What? Where did that come from?

    The problem with meeting the royals, for any true republican, is the protocol nonsense that goes with it. I’m sure the Queen is a perfectly nice wee old lady who does her best at her job, and would be perfectly happy to treat her with the same respect as I treat other old ladies, but hell would freeze before I addressed her as “Her Majesty” or other such nonsense. The problem is that the Queen cannot meet me as an equal and not vice versa.

    So I don’t think there is anything else SF can do than welcome them, note their importance and then farm them off to people who think that blood is enough to have position.

  • Briso

    Kensei:
    hell would freeze before I addressed her as “Her Majesty” or other such nonsense. The problem is that the Queen cannot meet me as an equal and not vice versa.

    But isn’t it up to sovereign nations to choose their heads of state? You don’t have to be a supporter of monarchy to meet a royal head of state and show fraternal respect to the country which has this method of ‘choosing’ them.

  • Dec

    FD

    I don’t see Anderson’s response at odds with the quote you supplied. If the Pope ever visits (for want of a better analogy) I don’t expect the DUP to organise mass protests, but neither do I expect them to ‘kow tow’ to him .

  • kensei

    “But isn’t it up to sovereign nations to choose their heads of state? You don’t have to be a supporter of monarchy to meet a royal head of state and show fraternal respect to the country which has this method of ‘choosing’ them.”

    To an extent. The problem, of course, with the Liz II, is that she claims to be be my sovereign, and the mere idea of that, and the idea that birthright should confer such titles generally, is against everything I believe in right to the core of my being. I couldn’t speak for anyone else, but I couldn’t possibly do it without horribly compromising myself. I remember reading a book on FDR that his attitude of the royals was that they were slightly inferior equals. I couldn’t help but think that is the only possible attitude an Irishmen could adopt when meeting all royalty 🙂

    Respect is a two way street. I respect your right to hold, what seems to me, the most bizarre and nutty attitudes to monarchy (it seems particularly strange to me for Presbyterians and Free Presbyterians to have them). It is literally beyond my comprehension. You have to respect that there is some bridges I just can’t cross.

    I wouldn’t expect Ian Paisley to meet the Pope and go through his mountain of titles. These days I would expect him not to be screaming about him being the anti-Christ either.

    Ok, and only ERII is head of state, by the by. What about the rest?

  • curious

    ‘I wouldn’t expect Ian Paisley to meet the Pope and go through his mountain of titles’

    Kensel

    If the Pope ever came to NI now as head of the Vatican State, Paisley would have to meet him. Its prodocol for those who hold office as Paisley does to represent the state.

    Regards you and I being invited to meet The Queen or the Pope you can forget it we are not important enough.

    ‘Ok, and only ERII is head of state, by the by. What about the rest?’

    They (the rest of the royals) only act as stand in’s when The Queen cannot attend all the places she is invited to.

  • peter

    Are IRA/Sinn Fein Republican bigots in general or just British hating Republican bigots?

    Would they meet Royals from Bahrain, Belgium, Bhutan, Denmark, Japan, Jordan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Morocco, Nepal, Netherlands, Norway, Glücksburg, Qatar, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Swaziland, Sweden and Thailand ?

  • Briso

    Kensei:
    >The problem, of course, with the Liz II, is that
    >she claims to be be my sovereign, and the
    >mere idea of that, and the idea that birthright
    >should confer such titles generally, is against
    >everything I believe in right to the core of my
    >being.

    Well quite! It’s also true that President McAleese claims to be President of all Ireland. Again, you don’t have to agree to shake her hand and say welcome as a mark of respect to the citizens of her country.

    But regarding monarchy, you would bite your tongue and shake the hand of Queen Beatrix if she were on a state visit? I mean some might say that this sort of compromising to show respect for others is required of all the politicos in the assembly.

  • kensei

    “If the Pope ever came to NI now as head of the Vatican State, Paisley would have to meet him. Its protocol for those who hold office as Paisley does to represent the state.”

    So, a mutually agreeable compromise couldn’t be worked out? Balls. Anyway, I’m sure the Office of the First and Deputy First Minister have to be represented, I’m not sure Paisley would seeing as how the position are entirely equal aside from the name.

    “Regards you and I being invited to meet The Queen or the Pope you can forget it we are not important enough.”

    That is really irrelevant to the point I was making.

    “They (the rest of the royals) only act as stand in’s when The Queen cannot attend all the places she is invited to.”

    So does the Governor General of Australia get addressed as “Your majesty” or “Your royal highness”?

    Peter

    “Are IRA/Sinn Fein Republican bigots in general or just British hating Republican bigots?”

    That so 1990’s. Do catch up.

    “Would they meet Royals from Bahrain, Belgium, Bhutan, Denmark, Japan, Jordan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Morocco, Nepal, Netherlands, Norway, Glücksburg, Qatar, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Swaziland, Sweden and Thailand ?”

    I would have problems with it, even the hot princesses, if I had to address them with any degree of deference. This probably makes me a bad candidate for President of Ireland. And as I pointed out, none of those are claiming to be my sovereign, which is an important point.

  • Briso

    Kensei:
    I would have problems with it, even the hot princesses, if I had to address them with any degree of deference.

    What if you had to shake her hand and say ‘Welcome to Belfast. I hope you have a very enjoyable visit.”?

  • kensei

    “Well quite! It’s also true that President McAleese claims to be President of all Ireland. Again, you don’t have to agree to shake her hand and say welcome as a mark of respect to the citizens of her country.”

    President McAleese has her position courtesy of an election. She is not the sovereign. Sovereignty of the Republic rests with the people.

    “But regarding monarchy, you would bite your tongue and shake the hand of Queen Beatrix if she were on a state visit? I mean some might say that this sort of compromising to show respect for others is required of all the politicos in the assembly.”

    Happy to shake hands. Bow, address as “Your majesty”, any of that shit, nope.

    There are fundamental principles on which I am unable to compromise. ERII’s claim to sovereignty of any part of Ireland (well, anywhere, but I am primarily concerned with my own country) is wrong right down to a moral level. I accept the current situation only because, de facto, sovereignty rests with the people and the current situation is what people have voted for, not because of any claim of sovereignty by royalty. But I refuse point blank to bow the knee. Don’t have a problem with her as a person, would be happy to meet with her as such. The protocol is what would prevent me.

  • kensei

    “What if you had to shake her hand and say ‘Welcome to Belfast. I hope you have a very enjoyable visit.”?”

    No problem. Is she going to have a problem with me addressing her as Mrs Windsor?

  • Briso

    No problem. Is she going to have a problem with me addressing her as Mrs Windsor?

    Posted by kensei on Jun 04, 2007 @ 01:32 PM

    How about ‘Welcome to Belfast, Madam. I hope you have a very enjoyable visit.’

  • Harris

    Curious

    “When is Sinn Fein & Martina Anderson going to apoligise for this dastardly act of murder against a member of the British Royal Family?”

    A couple of weeks ago on “Hearts & Minds”, Gregory Campbell couldn’t even bring himself to the understanding that, it was his own (unionist) oppressive policies towards Catholics that initiated physical force republicanism.

    Martina has recognized that there was hurt done to the unionist community by republicans, but that is not good enough for the dinosauer element within the unionist parties. It’s time you and yours moved on.

  • kensei

    “How about ‘Welcome to Belfast, Madam. I hope you have a very enjoyable visit.’”

    Might be all right, as long as it is not Ma’am. But we both know it would go beyond a handshake and it would be possible to avoid the deference. How’s Paisley going to address the Pope?

    I also fail to see how this in anyway helps outreach.

  • the Emerald Pimpernel

    You are not allowed to touch the Queen unless she initiates it.
    you are not allowed to talk to the queen unless she initiates it
    I am not sure you are even supposed to look her in the eye

    Now why would an equal opportunity republican want to give away that much of their own autonomy to the queen

    r3emember the kerfuffle when bush winked at her

  • Briso

    Posted by the Emerald Pimpernel on Jun 04, 2007 @ 02:07 PM
    >You are not allowed to touch the Queen unless she initiates it.
    >you are not allowed to talk to the queen unless she initiates it
    >I am not sure you are even supposed to look her in the eye

    In what sense? I can do what I want, what would happen if I looked her in the eye? Get a grip!

  • the Emerald Pimpernel

    If you didnt follow protocols you would be removed from her majestic presence (lol) and probably asked to leave what ever function you were attending, you would not be allowed to meet her ever again and the palace would likely lodge a letter of official complaint

  • Briso

    Posted by kensei on Jun 04, 2007 @ 01:50 PM
    “How about ‘Welcome to Belfast, Madam. I hope you have a very enjoyable visit.’”

    >Might be all right, as long as it is not Ma’am.
    >But we both know it would go beyond a handshake
    >and it would be possible to avoid the deference.
    I assume you mean impossible. Why though? The above anodyne conversation is as much as could be expected and is the norm.

    >How’s Paisley going to address the Pope?
    No idea. Red Whore of Rome? That’s his problem.

    >I also fail to see how this in anyway helps outreach.
    It’s about showing respect to your neighbours, not just in Northern Ireland, but England Scotland and Wales.

  • kensei

    “If you didnt follow protocols you would be removed from her majestic presence (lol) and probably asked to leave what ever function you were attending, you would not be allowed to meet her ever again and the palace would likely lodge a letter of official complaint ”

    Correct. Yeah, this is where I’d be running into big problems.

    “It’s about showing respect to your neighbours, not just in Northern Ireland, but England Scotland and Wales.”

    Can’t we respect our differences too? Surely that is part of it

  • George

    Briso,
    It’s also true that President McAleese claims to be President of all Ireland.

    No actually, that would be totally false. She is president of the State of Ireland, not the island of Ireland.

    Read the Irish Constitution.

  • pith

    Did senior Paisley not have a problem with the Queen himself not so long ago? Something to do with a green dress and attending a mass at Westminster cathedral?

  • Peter

    “Did senior Paisley not have a problem with the Queen himself not so long ago? Something to do with a green dress and attending a mass at Westminster cathedral?”

    What are you saying pith? good enough reason to kill her family and remain an anti-British monarchy bigot for ever?

  • Briso

    Posted by kensei on Jun 04, 2007 @ 03:17 PM

    “If you didnt follow protocols you would be removed from her majestic presence (lol) and probably asked to leave what ever function you were attending, you would not be allowed to meet her ever again and the palace would likely lodge a letter of official complaint “

    >Correct. Yeah, this is where I’d be running into big problems.

    It’s a complete straw man. What is it you want to do that would cause you to be thrown out for God’s sake? And how is it any different than with any head of state? If you were there to be welcoming and dignified, I fail to see how you would get ‘into big problems’.

    K: “Welcome to Belfast Madam. I hope you enjoy your stay.”

    QE2: “Thank you. Isn’t the weather lovely?”

    K: “Yes.”

    Job done. Grab a free drink and a sausage roll.

    >Can’t we respect our differences too? Surely that is part of it

    Of course. If you don’t want to accept this notional invite, so be it. I still don’t see the big barrier from your own words so far.

  • the Emerald Pimpernel

    The queen judges herself not to be just another head of state and before you are allowed to meet her they have protocal officers that come and tell you exactly how you are allowed to act what you are allowed to say and how long you are allowed to engage the queen unless she judges that she wants to talk to you

    Why would you be removed? because you insulted the queen and either you would have to leave or she would and some how i dont believe it would be her

  • Dec

    …protocal officers that come and tell you exactly how you are allowed to act what you are allowed to say and how long you are allowed to engage the queen unless she judges that she wants to talk to you

    And to think some people have a problem with the monarchy?

  • the Emerald Pimpernel

    LOL its why i never sought an audience with the old gal

    I would treat her the same way I would treat any old gal and that wouldnt go over

  • kensei

    “Of course. If you don’t want to accept this notional invite, so be it. I still don’t see the big barrier from your own words so far.”

    What I can’t look at her in the eye or initiate conversation and that’s not a problem?

  • Martina Anderson is quickly becoming my favourite NI politician.

  • pith

    Peter, Clearly not. 0/10 for comprehension.

  • Jimmy Sands

    I don’t see the problem. Don’t say “Ma’am” if it offends you. If they kick up a fuss then they’re the bad guys not you.

  • tlc

    She is Royal
    He is Hollande

  • slug

    “The Queen is a Parrot” – Ian Paisley, May 1998

    The Queen is a Parrot [BBC News Coverage]

  • pith

    Slug, useful link highlighting Paisley’s anti-Englishness. Interesting that he finally recognised he had more in common with Martin McGuinness just as people in southern Ireland made clear that they see Sinn Fein as a blow-in northern party. Is ‘Ulster’ a nation afterall?

  • slug

    Pith

    What I have now just noticed is that the second line of the report says:

    “But in response to reports that the Queen is to visit Northern Ireland and Dublin – the first trip by a British monarch to the Republic’s capital since the partition of Ireland in 1922.”

    In fact no such visit has yet taken place – 9 years later.

    There is no time like the present for such a visit by the Queen to the Republic. Indeed there is now no reason not to have such a state visit.

    It will be most interesting indeed.

  • Tiny

    Only a few weeks ago Paisley Sen was reported as saying that he couldn’t be expected to meet the Pope anymore than he would expect Martin to meet the Queen, once again the DUPes appear confused

  • páid

    Slug writes…..

    “The Queen is a Parrot” – Ian Paisley, May 1998

    The Queen is a Parrot [BBC News Coverage]

    Seems like slug also is a parrot 😉

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathy C

    Hi all,

    The way sinn fein is becoming so very orange I was rather surprised they didn’t go kiss her backside.

  • heck

    they could ask her where the toilet is

  • Briso

    Posted by kensei on Jun 04, 2007 @ 06:55 PM
    >What I can’t look at her in the eye or initiate conversation and that’s not a problem?

    Of course you can look her in the bloody eye, and you wouldn’t be the first to initiate conversation. What do you think is going to happen? The SAS appear on ropes and put a hand-grenade up your ass? Have a bit of backbone!

    What precisely is it you want to do to the Queen but can’t, that you could do to Beatrix of the Netherlands? President Chirac? The Pope? In any of the above situations you will be told where to stand, what to say, how to address them and NEVER touch the VIP unless offered a hand to shake.

    Like I say, you don’t have to accept all the shit wrapped up in Monarchy to accept the right of the British to choose their own head of state (or their own method of choosing their head of state) and show fraternal respect to their country by greeting him or her.

    Here endeth mine contribution to this thread.

  • BonarLaw

    I’ve just enjoyed HM opening the Welsh Assembly and wonder whether Ms Anderson would have a problem with a similar Royal occasion at Stormont. After all QEII does sign all the Bills passed by the Assembly to give them force of law.

  • young fella

    DUP are loosing again and again on the PR battle,SF may be ex-terrorists but they know how to play the game.If the DUP had any wit;they would grow a pair and issue some of their own apologies about the past.But they won’t because of that obnoxious pride that”no” and “never” have generated,and that brings a smile to even the most mild-mannered nationalists when the blonde bomb-shell top-trumps Paisley in the PR pantomime.To be fair though Ian junior and Campbell etc are just token dissent now,to make sure Big Ian’s party line isn’t too compromised when the fact is he’s dealing with the Shinners every day.SF may have hated the monarchy in the past and just about tolerate them these days,but the thing (….the only thing) the Paisleys like about the Queen is rubbing the British state in republicans faces.

  • peter

    Why won’t the Shinners meet the Queen or a member of the Monarchy?

  • kensei

    “I’ve just enjoyed HM opening the Welsh Assembly and wonder whether Ms Anderson would have a problem with a similar Royal occasion at Stormont. After all QEII does sign all the Bills passed by the Assembly to give them force of law.”

    I’m sure she would have a problem with her opening parliament, as opposed to just visiting. Outreach, of course, doesn’t mean having to every single thing the other person wants.

  • BonarLaw

    kensei

    “I’m sure she would have a problem with her opening parliament”

    But why? SF have signed up to NI being part of the United Kingdom, to an Assembly that requires Royal Assent for every Bill passed and to an Executive that administers NI on behalf of the Crown.

  • pith

    BonarLaw, Indeed. It’s like taking the presents and not wanting to meet Daddy Christmas.

  • kensei

    SF signed up to it after ensuring that such protocol would not exist here, and did so because it was ratified by referenda North and South – sovereignty ultimately resting with people. The Crown is irrelevant.

  • pith

    In the last Assembly, Acts had to have Royal assent and were published with the UK crest. Is that no longer the case?

  • Harry

    Nationalists should not meet with the british queen on irish soil. She represnts claims of british sovereignty and meeting with her shows a toleration of the unacceptable that it is by no means necessary of us the partake in. The current agreement with unionism is based on the unavoidable irruption of british force on this island underwriting an entirely undemocratic and self-serving me féinism on their part. It should be made clear, by not meeting this queen, that the current agreement is made under sufferance not pleasure and that the ancient claims on ireland made by britain through its monarchs will form no part of an acceptable protocol on this island until such time as their monarchs are fully rendered foreign.